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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Trillian Mcmillan
The Arrow Project The ARR0W Project
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Posted - 2006.08.13 15:23:00 -
[31]
I am (still) a new player. And my alt is not even done with learning yet.
No i dont need a head start.
Thank you.
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Valan
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Posted - 2006.08.13 15:24:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Valan on 13/08/2006 15:34:34
Makes no difference if the noob is in a carrier I'm not going to engage unless I'm a Dread. If I don't own a Dread, the Dread pilot will take him out while I take the fighters out in something else.
Same as having a Dread without having a POS or another Capital to fire at, completely pointless, unless you have a tackler. Tools for jobs, as a vet you can do more jobs, but I can only do one job at a time. If I'm in a Scorp and not set up right, unlucky enough to land at a gate with a 1 year old Apoc at range. I'm not gonna fight him. It's also a waste of time saying you can't compete in a 1v1 because you virtually never get a 1v1.
After playing other mmorpgs I know what it's about. You can't play I've got the biggest manhood in EVE because someone comes along and chops it off. You can go around shouting about how much ISK you have, how many SPs you have but when it comes down to it doesn't matter. It's rock, scissor, paper, stone coupled with creative thinking.
Makes no diff if you have the Neutron Blaster of Jovian Dragon Slaying. If Little Noob of Doom has a jammer on he is gonna slap you silly with your own arm. Then you'll be wishing you had recruited the new guy that can only fly a Rifter because right now he could save your ass. The guy you did recruit who has managed the impressive feat of obtaining a Dread in a week by grinding 24/7, is now saying 'sorry I can't him'.
CCP have spent countless hours developing the game so every ship plays its part. So new guys have a place in a fleet. We don't all go in a BS. We have recons, frigs, cruisers, battle cruisers and maybe a command ship.
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Ichabod Dirange
Iscariot Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.08.13 15:27:00 -
[33]
No.
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Neon Genesis
Gallente Hooligans Of War
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Posted - 2006.08.13 16:23:00 -
[34]
New players already have a good headstart, the khanid race
A 1-2 month old khanid char makes my attributes look like a joke, seriously.
There, i just contributed nothing to your thread |
Jenson Cole
Red Dagger Fleet
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Posted - 2006.08.13 16:49:00 -
[35]
No the new characters don't need a head start.
I can testify to that with my newest character when compareing it to my main which is this account. My alt (which is going to my Fiance :P) in 1 month and 13 days of trainning she's trainning at a rate of 2k-2500 skill points an hour and on track to break the 3 million skill point mark within 2-3 days.
She can fly a Carecal and Kestral and do enough things to enable her to make about 1-2 million isk in an hour with 2 mining lasers on her frigate or if I want to send her off ratting with a friend and she can make just as much.
It's rather funny how people say that the new people need a jump so they can catch up to the older players. It's laughable because one they've been in this game longer than you and by all means should not have the chance of being truly caught up to.
Yes my main has nearly 22 million skill points but I can also fly anything from a Minmatar Frigate up to a Tempest and Cyclone with rather ease. I invested the skill points to fly these ships well and if someone was truly capable of catching my character who has 2 years plus on you then I'd be upset as would many other players who have been in game 3 years plus.
If anything the new players have it rather easy. As an earlier poster stated he had to catch up when CCP nerfed Missiles and Drones. I was in that same boat as well.
Learning Skills were present when I started but I put them off the first 6 months I was in game with this character and to this day am kicking myself in the butt for not trainning them earlier.
CCP has provided all the new players with the means to get your character's trainning fast it just comes down to the question are you willing to put the time in to follow through with the trainning to speed up your overall trainning time.
All you REALLY need is the following to REALLY kick the door open for speed trainning. Science 3 Cybernetics 2 (These two combined allow you to use the basic +3 Implants) and then your basic learning skills. Get those and you're on track for a very fast training character.
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Valan
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Posted - 2006.08.13 17:44:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Valan on 13/08/2006 17:44:37 I started a character at the beginning of March. She's absolutely rattling through the skills. We'll see whether a noob account can compete soon enough.
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Jif Lemming
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Posted - 2006.08.13 17:44:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Jif Lemming on 13/08/2006 17:43:58 Wrong char- FIX the forums!!!!!
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Cmdr Baxter
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2006.08.13 18:41:00 -
[38]
No, I don't need a headstart. I may have been only playing for 3 weeks, but I'm doing just fine.
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Nymos
Celtic Anarchy
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Posted - 2006.08.13 19:11:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Nymos on 13/08/2006 19:14:16 Edited by: Nymos on 13/08/2006 19:13:29 headstart? please no.
i remember someone in my previous corp that just started, immediately trained up for raven and the necessary skills for mods, hopped in a corp loaned bship and went out to rat in 0.0 near our pos. i was shaking my head seeing him at the ship maintenance array repairing his armor. i passive tank them for forever. and lacking experience he logged out when a hostile showed up and got ganked for being combat flagged. in his bship by a stealth bomber. didnt even know they got the dps to kill a bship lmao.
there is a reason for slowing down the pace at which new players progress. they need to understand game mechanics and the capabilities of what they are flying. if you are in a bship after one month you are dead very soon, you cant handle flying one. it'll die almost as fast as a cruiser. and there is alot more satisfaction if you finally achieve your goal if you had to wait for it for some time rather than grinding a silly instance for xp. it's like christmas/your birthday etc. would suck if it was every month, boring, nothing to look forward to.
i started early january this year. i didnt have trouble making isk. it was lots of fun to explore eve and see how much it offers and what possibilities there are. a caracal or thorax is a real beast if the pilot knows what he's doing regardless of his SP. of course ships scale with SP, but only with diminishing additional benefit. gang up, 3-5 cruisers and you will do fine.
i can kill higher SP players so why cant you? sure need a basic set of skills first, but why does everyone want the insta-solopwnmobile? what's the goal at lvl60? wait for lvl70? do utterly boring raids for e-peen enhancing loot so one can sit in ironforge and wait for someone to look at his gear and say "omfg d00d ur so leet"? watching a friend of mine playing wow he almost gets a hard-on if he sees a complete epic set (and we're 26, no kids). i was in a high end raiding guild in EQ2. damn was it boring. mobs that aoe the whole zone and rip the main tank a new one almost oneshotting him. and it's all about gear, not your playing skills... and then sony made it all even easier. bad enough that there are no trains, agro is highly predictable with groups of mobs, classes are cookie cutter style, all the same etc. but they topped it by removing the death penalty significantly, increase drop rates of stuff, make mobs even easier, even better drops everywhere. that was the moment i left that game, it horribly sucked. i want a challange....
stop thinking of titans. afaik still noone has a titan. thats why i said understand the game. go mine 3 bn units of trit... i started out to become the ultimate hauler/trader, carebear extraordinaire. while training learning skills and doing some mining, mission running etc i realized that's not what i want to do as i saw more of this game. so i turned 100% pvp now. specialize and, like someone said, dont look what others got. look at what you can do and want to do. personally, i dont care if my neighbor has a ferrari. i dont even have a car because public transport is fine for me (we got real good public transportation here).
edit: analogy to eq/wow was just to underline that eve is just different, most importantly it's not about the biggest ship to kill stuff
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Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.08.13 19:51:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Jenson Cole
Learning Skills were present when I started but I put them off the first 6 months I was in game with this character and to this day am kicking myself in the butt for not trainning them earlier.
Why didn't you learn them ? Because you probably thought it sucked to spend time for that. You prefered to train for skills that make you better with your ship, allow you to use something new and mean some fun. If we ever get advanced advanced learning skills, then they will be a real newbie torture. Before that happens, they should rather increase general learning speed by x percent without skill.
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Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.08.13 19:59:00 -
[41]
I think the "schools" thing needs to be changed around a lot. Some bloodline choices allow you to get level 5 in a rank 1 skill (256k skill points) and other options give you significantly less skillpoints. I think that every player should come out of character creation with approximately the same number of skillpoints, and the smallest clone should be rescaled to the new minimum number of skillpoints +10 day's training assuming 10 in each attribute, and redudant clone grades removed.
I personally don't really like the idea of the learning skills grind, but its here, and I don't think its ever going to change so you'll just have to work around it... --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Roupeh Natanoj
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.08.13 20:01:00 -
[42]
Hell no. I had to wait for skills to train like everyone else, all new players must do the same. <><><> I need to make a new thingie for here. |
Kylania
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.13 20:03:00 -
[43]
NO! -- Lil Miner Newbie Skills Roadmap | CCG Card Lookup |
Skraelingz
Gallente Gallente Federal Bank
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Posted - 2006.08.13 20:05:00 -
[44]
nice sig baxter. -----------------------------------------------
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Yumi Ren
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Posted - 2006.08.13 20:30:00 -
[45]
I am in my 3rd week of being a pilot in the eve universe and I like how it is. I started off with my Ibis. Now I own a couple of condors and bantams while I am living in Lonetrek doing courier missions and some trades with my bantam, whenever the opportunity arises.
I dont know how much I can contribute to a corporation at the moment, but I know my role right now. I am a small scale trader while working for the corporation Lai Dai.
- Do I have the skills to do it? Yes, I have trained the skills to fulfil the roles I have chosen within my first day.
- Are you successful? Material wise yes. I have earned the ISK to buy my advanced learning skill books and implants for intelligence and memory
- Do I log on, if I know that it will take me 10 hours until my next skill finishes? Yes I do, if I want to play. I play MMO's to socialise and relax. EvE fulfils this condition and I have met many great people within my first 3 weeks, who helped me and bared my newbie questions or just spend some time with me helping me doing level 2 storyline missions, which I could not handle on my own.
What makes EvE unique is its relaxed play style. You can watch TV or play connect 4 in the ingame browser. You can play whenever you want to logon and you are not required to logon every day for 3 hours from x to y so you can participate.
A lot of the game is "waiting" but its greatest assets are the people and players. So far I have met a lot of great people in the game and sometimes I just logon for a chat, while im cooking dinner.
What about my future in EvE? I have used EvE Mon and designed my character, which will take me 598 days to complete the training marathon. ><
At least I know I will be done by then and in the mean time, I will be looking for a corporation where I can fit in with the roles I want to fulfil.
This is the 2nd unique aspect of EvE: You have the choice.
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Ozmodan
Minmatar Storm Industries
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Posted - 2006.08.13 20:54:00 -
[46]
Well I see alot of jaded opinions from the veterans. Hard to put yourselves in a young players shoes and be somewhat objective isn't it?
I am at the end of my 2nd month. I do mining ops with the corp a couple days a week, after that I mostly log in and check learning and then log right back out. I have run level 1 and level 2 missions till I am bored to tears. I really need to be in .4 and under, but combat skills are far too low. Dead and podded within the hour everytime I go there.
I don't see that changing much in the next two months, not even sure I will continue playing. Don't take me wrong, I don't mind losing ships and the podding routine. I accept that as part of the game, but I can't have that happen everyday as I would soon be very broke. I can't tell you how many times I have been blown up in one shot in my cruiser, these pirates are extremely well equipped. Nothing like seeing shield, armor and hull indicators turn completely red at once.
So I am reduced to mining to earn money, thank you no. More than half the people I started the game with have left.
I personally think if ccp added more lower end content they would have a much better chance to retain new players. They also need to fix high sec pvp, it is extremely one sided to the aggressors favor right now.
No matter how you slice it, more players means more money for development, if you don't retain new players, this game will go the way of all the other also rans. Learners permit still current |
Milera
Gallente Antimatter Assembly Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.13 20:58:00 -
[47]
As a two-three months old player, I have to say that I wouldn't play it any other way than how I have. New players do not need a head start, they really don't. Sure, it would be nice to be able to hold my own in 0.0 (I'm in a Thorax, not heading anywhere close!) and it would be a hell of a lot nicer if I could make some money remotely quickly, but hey.
EVE forced me to take time to learn about how the game works. It forced me to take time to really learn how to play the game, and how to fight. The nature of the game also really made me talk to older players, plan out my skill progression and decide how I really wanted to develop.
When I started, I saw the words "battleship" and went (like most newbies) "oooh... big ship!" and instantly wanted to fly it. After a little while, I realized that HACs are better than the battleships, so why bother trying to train up to a b-ship, instead, I talked to some guys, and put together a quickfit profile of my ideal Deimos HAC. Then I looked at the skills, and plotted them out as long term objectives in EVEMon. Next I set up my short term skills in EVEMon to fly a cruiser, and then later a Assault Ship. And here I am today, training up the weapons skills I need to equip my Enyo while I mine out asteroid fields to make the... 29,989,000 ISK I need to equip the Enyo.
That's what the time makes you do. It really makes you think about how exactly you want to conduct yourself. It also weeds out the idiots who don't understand EVE, or who don't have the patience for EVE. For instance, there was a 10 day old in Oursulaert threatening a guy "I'll bump you if you don't give me missiles!" (actually, it was, "i bump u if no missel"), and thank God for the slow progression, because it might convince him not to play. ------------------------------------------------- Through war we eliminate the weak, through war we develop technology, through war we hone our skills. Is it not a surprise that those who fight are s |
Tang Jiajean
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Posted - 2006.08.13 21:02:00 -
[48]
posting as a new player...
nope, I am doing fine.. no need for a headstart(but donations in isk are welcome.. hehe.)
the time getting skill trained is the time to get to feel around the game for me...
I dont feel impeded in anyways..(especially my willpower is GIMPED..but high Mem and Intel!.. so it is a trade off)
and yeah, making everybody learn at the same speed seem to eliminate characters that are built for research/combat/manufacturing...makes you feel like a generic player... (well thats how I feel anyways..)
kinda kills the RPG elements...
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Ogdru Jahad
Amarr Demon Womb
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Posted - 2006.08.13 21:08:00 -
[49]
Oh jeeees!
some of you guys need to seriouly get lives.
I am restarting eve after a 2.5 years of playing.
I know how i want this chr and i am not letting anyone deviate me from it.
and trust me maxing out learning skills is painful.
I also have a 2nd account i use to pass time she is my mining alt and she will make me iskies.
if you dont know what your doing get adavce and if need be restart eve!
Great Quotes...
INNOMINATE NIGHTMARE > Your mother is an Exotic Dancer and your Sister works in a Quafe Factory..... |
Serenity Steele
Rearden Steele Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.08.13 22:00:00 -
[50]
Pretty much all the angles here are covered, except the aspect that to be successful in EvE, you need nothing to do with skills, you only need one of: A.. Team to play with (Corp or Alliance) (or) Be.. Creative
eg. A character with no skill points trained is capable of flying a frigate, and controlling a fighter drone assigned to it from a corp-mates carrier
eg. Be..fore Aaro'ne Erviale played EvE, there was no EGSE. Now it's the premier trading site for all publically traded shares. Aaron'ne character was created in Feb 2006. He doesn't require a single skill to make his 1% cut on all share trades.
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Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2006.08.13 22:54:00 -
[51]
The new bloodlines are enough of a headstart as it is.
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nahtoh
Caldari Bull Industries
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Posted - 2006.08.13 23:50:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Ozmodan Well I see alot of jaded opinions from the veterans. Hard to put yourselves in a young players shoes and be somewhat objective isn't it?
I am at the end of my 2nd month. I do mining ops with the corp a couple days a week, after that I mostly log in and check learning and then log right back out. I have run level 1 and level 2 missions till I am bored to tears. I really need to be in .4 and under, but combat skills are far too low. Dead and podded within the hour everytime I go there.
I don't see that changing much in the next two months, not even sure I will continue playing. Don't take me wrong, I don't mind losing ships and the podding routine. I accept that as part of the game, but I can't have that happen everyday as I would soon be very broke. I can't tell you how many times I have been blown up in one shot in my cruiser, these pirates are extremely well equipped. Nothing like seeing shield, armor and hull indicators turn completely red at once.
So I am reduced to mining to earn money, thank you no. More than half the people I started the game with have left.
I personally think if ccp added more lower end content they would have a much better chance to retain new players. They also need to fix high sec pvp, it is extremely one sided to the aggressors favor right now.
No matter how you slice it, more players means more money for development, if you don't retain new players, this game will go the way of all the other also rans.
Blah blah blah whine whine whine, its only the old timers that are aginst it whine some more...
Heres a hint your combat skills are low BECAUSE YOU ARE GRINDING YOUR LEARNING SKILLS...take the good advice from the vets you class as jaded...break up the learning skills...wait until you hit higher skill ranks or have a number of skills to 4 before you do the advanced learning skills.
I also note you totaly ignore the posts before yours from new players that like the way things are...chirst get your head out of the sand for fecks sake...
Most of the basic comabat skills are fairly low in rank as are most of the fitting skills...work out a fairy effcent training schedule or perish the thought train for things that you might actually enjoy doing...Its hardly rocket sciance you know... ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
Unus Verumi
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Posted - 2006.08.14 01:11:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Unus Verumi on 14/08/2006 01:11:44 Great arguments, everyone. I think that after reading through almost all of them, that most of you are right about what you are saying. I actually did even more number crunching and such using skill planners just to see how long it would take to say be an efficient Raven pilot. About two months. That is nothing to be honest. I would like to thank everyone for their input, some of it was a little off the wall, some of it missed the point, but for the most part there were some really nice points as to why it is not necessary.
I believe in the end that yes it may not be necessary to give a "boost" to new players. Thanks.
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Mi Lai
Sanguine Legion Atrocitas
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Posted - 2006.08.14 01:54:00 -
[54]
I dont think a headstart in form of faster initial training or something isnt needed. What I would love to see is having several Level 5 requirements lowered.
Making Advanced Learnings available at Learning 4 for instance would take away roughly a month (depending on atribs and implants offcourse) of booooring Learning Skill training for decent results. Same could be done for various T2 equipment (T2 Guns and Armor perhaps), so new players get access to some more thrilling content earlier, while the vets still have the advantage of having more Level 5's in those areas.
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Soren
Caldari PAK
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Posted - 2006.08.14 02:01:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Liu Kaskakka no
go team! ☠-->-->--
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Calladen Nimitz
Caldari Libertas Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.08.14 02:37:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Calladen Nimitz on 14/08/2006 02:41:10
New players have the ability to specialize in careers much greater than we did as veterans. Also they have the ability to still join an established 0.0 alliance and enter the "danger zone" of Eve while under the protection of the veterans. In many ways the new players have it much easier.
No Eve is more about knowledge. I look at myself for example. Two years ago I returned to Eve after a four month break (cancer treatment) and started a brand new character (Archbishop of PIE - the Amarr roleplayer). Archie had zero skills and except for some money I passed onto him not alot of anything else.
What I had though was knowledge steming back to early beta. I trained the learning skills FIRST. I flew cruisers for over a YEAR until I was a capable BS pilot (and thats still debatable with Archie). I focused him on Industry and build HACS and T2 stuff like its nobodys business yet until a few months ago I had more industry skillpoints then combat skillpoints. In a pvp corp like PIE thats not the best but I enjoy it.
New players can read the forums, ask for tips in the help forum, talk in help channel and get advice. They can join a veteran alliance and meet people from beta and ASK QUESTIONS about things. Eve isn't a game to play alone its a team effort. And even if you like going solo there are a ton of resources online to help the new player get started on the right path.
So the answer is NO they dont need a head start. What they need to do is research the game a bit and read whats been put out there by veteran players who want to help before making rash decisions.
NEW PLAYERS GETTING STARTED TIPS AND TRICKS
This webpage is ingame browser compatible and has a TON OF TIPS on it for new players. READ IT, LEARN IT, LIVE IT. I dont know who put it up but its great.
And ask questions. People really do want to help the new players. Just ask.
Calladen Nimitz
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BenYGW
Caldari Syncore Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.14 02:48:00 -
[57]
When i was a noob (about a year ago) I didnt feel that i was miles behind and needed to catch up.
I havn't specialised (i enjoy so many different races ships) and i didnt train learning until i could fly a Ferox effectivly.
Now if someone has more SP than me it realy makes no difference (and hasnt for a long time)
Maybe its a bit worse now, a year later.. but i dont think new players need a headstart atall (hey, they already have the new bloodlines)
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Mi Lai
Sanguine Legion Atrocitas
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Posted - 2006.08.14 02:53:00 -
[58]
Quote: New players have the ability to specialize in careers much greater than we did as veterans. Also they have the ability to still join an established 0.0 alliance and enter the "danger zone" of Eve while under the protection of the veterans. In many ways the new players have it much easier.
In order to specialise, you need to have a good understanding of what's on offer in EVE and a good understanding of game mechanics. For a real new player, how is he going to know what he likes and wants to specialise in without having some experience? I know of at least 1 battleship pilot who worked towards his goal of flying one, spend a ton of ISK and skilltime on getting it, only to be disgusted by flying one shortly after, and resorting back to smaller ships.
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JafoPBCFR
Caldari Copasetic Joint Special Task Force
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Posted - 2006.08.14 03:51:00 -
[59]
Im a noob. took me alittle time yes but im able to fly a few ships effectively. And I didnt need any help from CCP to doit.
Now that being said. Some of the time i spent in the game while trying to get these skills and money for ships and parts. Was boring as heck. Theres where the problem is.
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Karandor
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Posted - 2006.08.14 04:33:00 -
[60]
The slow progression weeds out those who won't like the game. You can get into a BC and grind level 3 missions while doing learning skills. This game is awesome for casual players because you don't need to GRIND GRIND GRIND for levels. Please keep it that way and make it so new players get to take time and learn the game.
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