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The Javelin T2 rail ammunition, whats the deal?

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Doxs Roxs	Posted - 2006.08.15 13:08:00 - [1] When I tried the Javelin T2 ammunition on my Harpy I lost more or less all my shields. I can understand why penalties are applied, but isnt this a bit over the top. From what I have seen so far they take 10% velocity, 20% shields and 25% tracking. The velocity and shield penalties seem to be applied per gun!?! It does state that you get a rate of fire bonus on em, but it says that its only 1% in the online item database, can this really be correct? Anyway, I loose about 59-80%(depends on how they stack the penalty, and I honestly dont remember) of my shield capacity by loading four guns with that ammo type. Considering the other penalties, to both velocity and tracking, why is a more or less complete removal of a ships shields in there as well? Especially since this makes it useless to any shield tanker. Anyone that can care to explain this ammunition for me, I bet I must have missed something becouse if I didnt miss anything it looks like its quite useless. Regards /Doxs
inSpirAcy Caldari The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.08.15 13:20:00 - [2] Yeah, it's pretty much among the broken class of T2 ammo. Which is quite large I might add.
Krogort Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.15 13:21:00 - [3] Javelin work well on Astarte...but it sux on every caldari ship...
Doxs Roxs	Posted - 2006.08.15 13:44:00 - [4] Aha, anyone heard anything about a potential fix? Or are they just putting the lid on this one hoping that it will go away? Regards /Doxs After almost half a year, why is my face just a '!' ? And please fix the Javelin T2 rail ammunition...
synK Caldari THE SHADOWS ASSASSINS	Posted - 2006.08.15 13:45:00 - [5] jus, they deal out **** loads of damage but they are utterly useless, its like your being webbed, and without and UBER tank they are useless. and yes, its 20% shield capacity reduction PER gun! i jus use anti-matter and instapop frigs this is my sig
inSpirAcy Caldari The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.08.15 13:50:00 - [6] I haven't heard any solid plans for fixing up T2 ammo. A lot of its plain overpowered (most of the long range stuff), underpowered (Javelin, Hail) or next to useless (Quake). The fact that penalties stack across each gun takes some ammos from worrying to plain terrifying.
Sorja E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.08.15 14:03:00 - [7] Why does CCP always go over the top? They could have made TII ammo like faction ammo: just a bit better, instead of messing with game mechanics so heavily. It was the same with assault ships. Instead of making them slightly better than their tech I counterpart, they made them so powerfull that the shift of balance is out of whack. A PvP game is a game where the players skills matter, not his XPs or gear. On topic, make tech II ammo like faction ammo, period. ____________________ Darko1107 > does anything in ascn space have tech II fittings? Quillan Rage > Iron ships
Doxs Roxs	Posted - 2006.08.15 14:05:00 - [8] Originally by: synK jus, they deal out **** loads of damage but they are utterly useless, its like your being webbed, and without and UBER tank they are useless. and yes, its 20% shield capacity reduction PER gun! i jus use anti-matter and instapop frigs I dont see where that dmg comes from, from the looks of it they dont have much of ROF bonus, and the numbers only give it a total of 60 dmg where as the antimatter gives 48 dmg in total. Is there something Im missing, becouse if not, it would mean that I only got 25% more dmg with it over antimatter, and from that perspective, the negative effects are quite staggering compared to the much cheaper, more accurate antimatter ammunition. Regards /Doxs After almost half a year, why is my face just a '!' ? And please fix the Javelin T2 rail ammunition...
Krulla Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.08.15 14:07:00 - [9] Javelin on a Megathron is pure pwnage, really... It's awesome for gate and station camps, where all the fighting happens at or below 50km, anyway...
inSpirAcy Caldari The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.08.15 14:10:00 - [10] Originally by: Sorja On topic, make tech II ammo like faction ammo, period. While I agree T2 is a bit out of whack, I'm not averse to them doing more interesting things than just extra damage. I think it's something a dev mentioned at some point, although I can't seem to find the post, to give T2 ammo secondary effects; but he was a bit hazy on what those effects might be. I personally won't leave home without Scorch, because it helps my lasers reach those places that other crystals just won't reach.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.15 14:10:00 - [11] Originally by: Krulla Javelin on a Megathron is pure pwnage, really... It's awesome for gate and station camps, where all the fighting happens at or below 50km, anyway... Its excellent game design that the best caldari ammo is useless on caldari ships and perfect on gallente ships... No not really. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.15 14:36:00 - [12] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Krulla Javelin on a Megathron is pure pwnage, really... It's awesome for gate and station camps, where all the fighting happens at or below 50km, anyway... Its excellent game design that the best caldari ammo is useless on caldari ships and perfect on gallente ships... No not really. eh... eagle with spike is 4tw from what i've heard. And deimos / astarte with spike sucks. Look at those as caldari/gallente version of ammo and you have ok explanation of it. --------------------- Looking for frentix? Mail me.
Alex Tremayne Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.15 14:41:00 - [13] Originally by: Jim McGregor Its excellent game design that the best caldari ammo is useless on caldari ships and perfect on gallente ships... No not really. The reverse is also true. My CEO and I were discussing earlier how dangerous a blaster-Rohk with Null ammo would be due to the optimal bonus.
Nikolai Nuvolari Caldari Gilead's Bullet Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.08.18 01:52:00 - [14] Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Krulla Javelin on a Megathron is pure pwnage, really... It's awesome for gate and station camps, where all the fighting happens at or below 50km, anyway... Its excellent game design that the best caldari ammo is useless on caldari ships and perfect on gallente ships... No not really. eh... eagle with spike is 4tw from what i've heard. And deimos / astarte with spike sucks. Look at those as caldari/gallente version of ammo and you have ok explanation of it. Null and Void are Gallente, Spike and Javelin are Caldari. Hence, Javelin needs to be fixed. --------------------- Originally by: Herko Kerghans Nik = win. Period. Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.18 02:03:00 - [15] Javelin on frigates = complete waste of time.
Amerame Section XIII	Posted - 2006.08.18 02:32:00 - [16] 425mm t2 Rokh with Javelin seems awfully overpowered, just thinking about burn eden like strategy with it make me shiver, 600 dps at 90km, insta dmg with a strong tank ? no, thanks.
Nikolai Nuvolari Caldari Gilead's Bullet Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.08.18 02:36:00 - [17] Originally by: Amerame 425mm t2 Rokh with Javelin seems awfully overpowered, just thinking about burn eden like strategy with it make me shiver, 600 dps at 90km, insta dmg with a strong tank ? no, thanks. By those standards, T2 Neutron Hyperion with Null seems awfully overpowered too. Doees that mean Null should be nerfed? No. --------------------- Originally by: Herko Kerghans Nik = win. Period. Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
Kai Lae Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.08.18 02:58:00 - [18] Perfectly good ammo for your Enyo, rail brutix, Eos, Astarte, and railathon. Sucks to be you if you're caldari though heh. Raptor and Ares Fix
Amerame Section XIII	Posted - 2006.08.18 03:58:00 - [19] Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Originally by: Amerame 425mm t2 Rokh with Javelin seems awfully overpowered, just thinking about burn eden like strategy with it make me shiver, 600 dps at 90km, insta dmg with a strong tank ? no, thanks. By those standards, T2 Neutron Hyperion with Null seems awfully overpowered too. Doees that mean Null should be nerfed? No. I'd like to see an overpowered blastership... I mean even for a short period of time, a blastership that would need to be nerfed ! I don't think it's going to happen any time soon. Actually most people, including the dev are more worried about the Hyperion being underpowered compared to other tier 3 BS than anything, but that's not really the topic of this thread. 600 dps, insta dmg at 90km, thanks but no thanks, it would make the Rokh too much of an obvious choice over the raven in both skirmish and fleet warfare which is wrong. The raven already rule the small gang warfare we don't need a ship that would be even better at it.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.08.18 05:00:00 - [20] Originally by: Sorja Why does CCP always go over the top? They could have made TII ammo like faction ammo: just a bit better, instead of messing with game mechanics so heavily. Or T2 ammo could've had special effects, which numerous people mentioned.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.08.18 05:02:00 - [21] Originally by: Amerame Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Originally by: Amerame 425mm t2 Rokh with Javelin seems awfully overpowered, just thinking about burn eden like strategy with it make me shiver, 600 dps at 90km, insta dmg with a strong tank ? no, thanks. By those standards, T2 Neutron Hyperion with Null seems awfully overpowered too. Doees that mean Null should be nerfed? No. I'd like to see an overpowered blastership... I mean even for a short period of time, a blastership that would need to be nerfed ! Oh you mean like the Thorax before the RMR nerf?
DarKDruG Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.08.18 05:10:00 - [22] Originally by: Amerame 425mm t2 Rokh with Javelin seems awfully overpowered, just thinking about burn eden like strategy with it make me shiver, 600 dps at 90km, insta dmg with a strong tank ? no, thanks. sorry if i misunderstand any part of your post, but with the current penalty stacking, where would this strong tank come from? 4 guns filled with javelin, you lose pretty much 40-50% total shield. going by what i've read so far, it might have 8 turrets 8 guns filled with javelin on a rokh? guess you'll have to go look for the shield in the cargo or a spare generator... cuz it sure won't be around your ship. (sarcastic, but true, you'll have roughly 20-30% of your total shieldcapacity left) Sig Removed. The max size for a sig is 400*120 pixels and 24000 bytes. -ReverendM ([email protected])
Dethis Caldari Eve University	Posted - 2006.08.18 05:15:00 - [23] T2 ammo makes me angry stupid broken stuff -------- Kill em all and let god sort em out
Mazar Byrd Amarr The Arrow Project The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2006.08.18 05:26:00 - [24] Yup gleam (tech 2 beam crystal) is almost the same. + 25% sig radius instead of the speed thing.
Hugh Ruka Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.18 05:59:00 - [25] Originally by: DarKDruG Originally by: Amerame 425mm t2 Rokh with Javelin seems awfully overpowered, just thinking about burn eden like strategy with it make me shiver, 600 dps at 90km, insta dmg with a strong tank ? no, thanks. sorry if i misunderstand any part of your post, but with the current penalty stacking, where would this strong tank come from? 4 guns filled with javelin, you lose pretty much 40-50% total shield. going by what i've read so far, it might have 8 turrets 8 guns filled with javelin on a rokh? guess you'll have to go look for the shield in the cargo or a spare generator... cuz it sure won't be around your ship. (sarcastic, but true, you'll have roughly 20-30% of your total shieldcapacity left) he thinks about ECM probably ... but afaik you cannot jam sentry guns so not shield = roasted rokh. there are things that work against players but not on sentries. so this will mean only 0.0 usability (no sentries). anyway ECM is in for a change so not an option. And to those who want secondary effects on t2 ammo, they are already there ... just they turn out to be penalties :-)) Originally by: JP Beauregard The experience with Exodus playtesting has scarred me for life. Those were bug-reports, not feature requests, you numbskulls....
MOS DEF Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.18 07:08:00 - [26] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Amerame Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Originally by: Amerame 425mm t2 Rokh with Javelin seems awfully overpowered, just thinking about burn eden like strategy with it make me shiver, 600 dps at 90km, insta dmg with a strong tank ? no, thanks. By those standards, T2 Neutron Hyperion with Null seems awfully overpowered too. Doees that mean Null should be nerfed? No. I'd like to see an overpowered blastership... I mean even for a short period of time, a blastership that would need to be nerfed ! Oh you mean like the Thorax before the RMR nerf? That was no blastership. That was a Small Railboat with heavy drones and you should know that. It was a drone carrier back then. and no blaterboat.
babylonstew Caldari Caldari Scouting and Intel Group	Posted - 2006.08.18 08:25:00 - [27] where the hell are you getting 90k with javelin on a rokh from? Forum advice Linkage
Doxs Roxs	Posted - 2006.08.18 08:35:00 - [28] I must correct myself on the Javelin ammunition, it has a 20% shield and speed penalty per gun, you also get a 25% tracking penalty, there is no rate of fire bonus either, even though it is stated that it does have that in the description. So, we are looking at 20% more damage compared to antimatter ammo, the same range as antimatter ammo, and for those 20% extra damage, we are penalized with 20% less shields per gun, 20% speed loss per gun and 25% less tracking? I cant really understand how that makes sence? Regarding the Rokh, 10% range per lvl of BS skill is what will enable a Rokh to fire antimatter or javelin from about 90Km range. Regards /Doxs After almost half a year, why is my face just a '!' ? And please fix the Javelin T2 rail ammunition...
babylonstew Caldari Caldari Scouting and Intel Group	Posted - 2006.08.18 08:48:00 - [29] yes i know it gets a range bonus, but if javelin gives -65% range bonus, that means a 425 II on a rokh has like 200k optimal? Forum advice Linkage
Destruct Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.18 09:28:00 - [30] as i remember it the devs have always said the t2 ammo is working as intended. then i remember seeing they acknowledge that the %-speed penalty means a greater penalty for ships that are more dependant on speed and that it might be unfair and need to be fixed. i'd really like to see that since i own a javelin s bpo. totally ridiculous how an enyo gets stationary when guns are loaded with javelin s. regardless of what they say i will never beleive that the stacking is anything other then a major screw-up on ccp's behalf. if the problems with javelin are bad i think the problems with the fury lights are worse. i have moderate advanced missile skills and i get a whopping 6,5 km range, worse then rockets, and that's not even a penalty. missile blaster ammo? get real! i think this is reflected from sales and makes the bpo worthless since the mission *****s will never use it. i'm sure there are plenty of more examples of the ineptness of t2 ammo. i'm holding on to the t2 ammo bpo's because in my ignorance i still hope ccp will unnerf them. You can get more of what you want with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word. - Al Capone

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