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People saying homophobic slurs in chat. Will they be dealt with?

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Vol Arm'OOO Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 307	Posted - 2014.10.27 01:53:17 - [31] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote: ShahFluffers wrote: Offended by the "F-word?" What are we in? Primary school? I've seen and heard MUCH worse just walking down the street. But yeah... you can totally report it. Just don't expect much punishment to come out of mere trash talking or mildly foul language. The only times I've seen GMs or DEVs enforce their "foul language/content" rule is when it is REALLY bad (like, "whoa" or "omg" bad). I think the OP means the three letter 'F' word that is used in America to describe homosexuals and not the four letter 'F' word that some people use ad nauseum. My points (and various chat channels of mine with that term as a name) still stand. Different people have different levels of tolerance, the GMs/DEVs can only get around to so many reports at any given time, the GMs/DEVs generally punish based on context rather than absolute usage, you can't reliably stop players from being 'tards in a game, and the lore of the game is based on murder/slavery/warfare/(insert other dystopian stuff here) which can often be more offensive than any mere word. Believe me... I get the point that the other side is making about how we shouldn't tolerate this kind of stuff... but it isn't a one way street. Language and culture has a funny thing where (over time) it can take benign or offensive words/sayings and turn them on their head to mean something completely different. And if efforts are made to stamp it out, you just make the change happen faster (Streisand Effect)... or make it worse for purely "ironic reasons" because some people find it funny how other people can get SO MAD over mere words when words themselves have no real meaning except those we willingly attach to them. Its funny how people make your very argument only from behind the anominity of a computer terminal. I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Ireland VonVicious Vicious Trading Company 402	Posted - 2014.10.27 02:44:30 - [32] - Quote It's important to police peoples thoughts and speech. It's not engineered opinion at all. Pay no attention to the men behind the curtain. Remember remember the 5th of November.
Vol Arm'OOO Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 307	Posted - 2014.10.27 13:29:47 - [33] - Quote Ireland VonVicious wrote: It's important to police peoples thoughts and speech. It's not engineered opinion at all. Pay no attention to the men behind the curtain. Remember remember the 5th of November. BS. Its a question of common courtesy. Some folk think its ok to be rude and spout whatever nonsense pops into their heads at any time. Other folk think that society functions best when you are conscious of your fellow societymates, their feelings, etc. . . . Sure you have a right to think and say what you want, but if you are a rude asshat, everyone else has an equal right to call you out as a rude asshat. I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
13kr1d1 Hedion University Amarr Empire 17	Posted - 2014.10.27 17:56:47 - [34] - Quote Nariya Kentaya wrote: Summer Isle wrote: I still think having a preemptive blocking feature would be incredibly useful, but most others seem to disagree with me. As much as I don't consider cursing and swearing to be offensive, others do and might find this sort of feature useful, as well. its a game populated by majority 28-32 year old players, if you find "foul language" offensive, then seriously, your living a cloistered life, because EVE will never be as bad as simply walking down the street within +/- 8 hours of the pub closing And if you don't like that, you don't have to walk down those alleys at night. It's a choice, just like it's a choice to block people using foul language in the game. Ireland VonVicious wrote: It's important to police peoples thoughts and speech. It's not engineered opinion at all. Pay no attention to the men behind the curtain. Remember remember the 5th of November. The game has word filters and the game has block options, just like World of Warcraft or any other MMO. That doesn't suddenly mean it's okay to use that language. In any other MMO with similar functions, you can still be reported for language that is "offensive" and "foul" and "sexual", etc, and receive a mute all the way up to perma ban for repeated infractions. Remember that, extra rules and abilities to avoid foul language do NOT make foul language suddenly okay. If there's rules in place against that foul language, you're the one taking the risk using such language in chat channels, regardless of any block or filter functions. You kinds of people would sound no different if you said "hey, we have legal options to deal with murder, therefore murder's okay and if you can't handle it, lighten up or dont leave your home". Eve or any other MMO is supposed to be a space accesible to all users, regardless of age or personal beliefs. If YOU dont like THAT, continue to use foul language and accumulate reports until they do hit you with a penalty.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance 6418	Posted - 2014.10.27 22:08:20 - [35] - Quote 13kr1d1 wrote: Remember that, extra rules and abilities to avoid foul language do NOT make foul language suddenly okay. If there's rules in place against that foul language, you're the one taking the risk using such language in chat channels, regardless of any block or filter functions. Perspective is a funny thing. What is not foul to me can be foul to someone else and vice versa. Who is right and who is wrong? Not everyone sees the world in quite the same way. 13kr1d1 wrote: You kinds of people would sound no different if you said "hey, we have legal options to deal with murder, therefore murder's okay and if you can't handle it, lighten up or dont leave your home". Except language isn't a zero-sum thing the same way life and death is. Language changes and is processed different for everyone (again, perspective). It's a giant grey area where meaning can only be derived from context rather than absolute usage (though, there are people out there who can only think in literal/superficial terms). 13kr1d1 wrote: Eve or any other MMO is supposed to be a space accesible to all users, regardless of age or personal beliefs. If YOU dont like THAT, continue to use foul language and accumulate reports until they do hit you with a penalty. I find your words hateful and intolerant. For that I will report you. (see what I did there?) Anyways... as much as I would like to beat this horse a few more times (mostly because it rials people up) I think it detracts from the whole point behind the New Citizens forum here... so I'll stop. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. "How did you veterans start?"
J'Poll CDG Playgrounds 4741	Posted - 2014.10.27 23:31:43 - [36] - Quote I do agree that there should be a line that you can't cross. However, keep in mind that EVE is global MMO. You are playing with thousands of people from all over the globe, this also means you have people from all ethnic backgrounds, different religions and different cultures. Because of this it's very hard to say that word "x" is forbidden, because due to the above, for some reason it can be offensive to one person while the another doesn't see any harm into it. Any of the vets remember the "Mate incident" that haunted YT and the forums for a while I found out this is ever so true in RL when on my internship in the States. Where it is frowned upon to use "the N-word" for people from African decent...while here in Holland (the Dutch translation of said word) is the normal way to refer to someone who comes from or is decendant from an African country. So while it is a big no-go in one country to use a single word, it's normal in another. This will just aswel reflect in game with chat channels, what is deemed "normal" to some people, others find very offensive. Hence why CCP will judge reports in a case-by-case situation and wants to know in which context it was used. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Ireland VonVicious Vicious Trading Company 403	Posted - 2014.10.27 23:33:30 - [37] - Quote I see people missing the point. It doesn't matter what you believe or think if one side gets to frame the debate ahead of time. You can't be proven right if you are forced to be silent. It's the tactic that has ruined the U.S. Opinions are engineered based on this practice. Freedom above all else. Lawful good is a myth.
J'Poll CDG Playgrounds 4741	Posted - 2014.10.27 23:45:13 - [38] - Quote Ireland VonVicious wrote: I see people missing the point. It doesn't matter what you believe or think if one side gets to frame the debate ahead of time. You can't be proven right if you are forced to be silent. It's the tactic that has ruined the U.S. Opinions are engineered based on this practice. Freedom above all else. Lawful good is a myth. I'm not saying that you should not speak up. But if CCP is going to ban every player for saying some word that someone else is offended by...This game will quickly be without any players. Throw 25.000 logged in characters together, and you are will ALWAYS find someone offending someone else...period. Hell, as said before, look up the "Mate incident" that happened a couple of years back. Some guy was offended because someone called him mate, as it was an insult in his country where as the for the other party it was just a word they use for friends / other people. You can petition it...sure, but don't get your hopes up too much, unles it's something really really bad the person said. Or You can just block the guy. It's dealt with it as YOU no longer can be offended by him. If everybody that find him offensive does the same....job done, problem solved, nobody sees what that guy throws in chats, let the asshat throw his ridiculous stuff in chats that nobody sees. A little bit of a thick skin is required in EVE, but this doesn't mean that you should take all the crap thrown at you. As suggested before. If you find it offensive, just report the person and then block him. A. It will solve the issue as you will no longer see what he says in chats. B. If CCP backs you up, he will be punished. If not, no big deal, you already have blocked him, so you can't be bothered by him anymore. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Lady Areola Fappington 2311	Posted - 2014.10.28 00:56:06 - [39] - Quote I just report the slur users, then block them. Best of both worlds. I can deal with cursing, but when you start whipping out slurs, well... I will say though, the Eve community can be pretty awesome. I'm a outspoken LGBT type person, so people love flinging assorted slurs about sexuality towards me. I was impressed when an anti-ganker called out some dude whipping out LGBT slurs in local. The quote went something like: "Really dude, it's 2014. Calling someone a *** is saying they like the color green." It isn't really hard, but I think there are customers that you can lose in a good way and there's customers that you can lose in a bad way. If people come in and fundamentally don't like EVE Online, then I think that might be a good way of losing customers. . -á--CCP Soundwave
Clavain Conjoined Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 14	Posted - 2014.10.28 03:18:39 - [40] - Quote Also, keep in mind that it has a lot to do with how the word is used. Saying a word has multiple meanings around the word could be true and is all well and good in a sterile academic argument, but when it's used to say something like "I'm glad that F will burn in hell" well, it's clear that's hate and the multiple meanings are moot. Now, if someone says "I'm going out to light a F", then you have to use context clues. This has even more impact with you know the link between the British use (small stick, not cigarette) and the slur.

Tyler Hail University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2014.10.28 04:02:28 - [41] - Quote Clavain Conjoined wrote: Also, keep in mind that it has a lot to do with how the word is used. Saying a word has multiple meanings around the world could be true and is all well and good in a sterile academic argument, but when it's used to say something like "I'm glad that F will burn in hell" well, it's clear that's hate and the multiple meanings are moot. This very much. As a genderqueer lgbt player, there's a vast difference between my reaction to someone saying "God, that was so gay" and someone saying "Fa**ots will burn in hell" or something similar regarding any minority. The first is most likely ignorance and I can brush that off, block the person if they keep doing it and move on. But people bashing gays or women or people of color...it's obvious when the meaning behind it is more than just ignorance or an immature attempt at riling someone up and any excuse of 'cultural differences' is a total strawman. Hate is hate and if hate is motivating the use of the word, it's offensive and deserves reporting. Ignorance is something else and bears, imo, a little leeway.
13kr1d1 Hedion University Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2014.10.28 04:35:10 - [42] - Quote How hard is it for people to moderate their own language in game? Assume everyone you're playing with is 10-12 years old and speak how you would speak if you were with friends or family around people of that age. Then you don't have a problem with offending anyone. I don't get how the thought of having self control upsets "some people".
Yolandar Estrogen Industrial Enterprises 22	Posted - 2014.10.28 07:03:57 - [43] - Quote Id have to say that you should let the person know you find what they say offensive. Same for harassment too. Not doing that kinda gives implied acceptance sometimes. It goes a long way with moderators too. "STOP" is a pretty clear mssg.
Kalishka Ashkulf BUMP POW 59	Posted - 2014.10.28 08:10:52 - [44] - Quote Ireland VonVicious wrote: I see people missing the point. It doesn't matter what you believe or think if one side gets to frame the debate ahead of time. You can't be proven right if you are forced to be silent. It's the tactic that has ruined the U.S. Opinions are engineered based on this practice. Freedom above all else. Lawful good is a myth. Would you extend said freedom to (for example) the K-K-K? After all according to you, it's all good. Freedom of speech does not equal freedom from consequence.
Morwen Lagann Tyrathlion Interstellar 1427	Posted - 2014.10.28 10:49:51 - [45] - Quote 13kr1d1 wrote: How hard is it for people to moderate their own language in game? Assume everyone you're playing with is 10-12 years old and speak how you would speak if you were with friends or family around people of that age. Then you don't have a problem with offending anyone. I don't get how the thought of having self control upsets "some people". Have you been around kids in the 10-12 range lately? Damn things swear more than I do. Morwen Lagann CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar Owner, The Golden Masque
13kr1d1 Hedion University Amarr Empire 20	Posted - 2014.10.28 15:57:48 - [46] - Quote Morwen Lagann wrote: 13kr1d1 wrote: How hard is it for people to moderate their own language in game? Assume everyone you're playing with is 10-12 years old and speak how you would speak if you were with friends or family around people of that age. Then you don't have a problem with offending anyone. I don't get how the thought of having self control upsets "some people". Have you been around kids in the 10-12 range lately? Damn things swear more than I do. In terrible, low brow communities, yes. I've been around decent society myself.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 1506	Posted - 2014.10.28 16:42:36 - [47] - Quote Herateis wrote: Does reporting these people do any good? I see people say both F words, and other such garbage all the time in Local, as if they aren't worried at all. Would it be ok for me to call the OP a pansy, if I was clear up front I am not insinuating an actual preference for gobbling dix, but more a generalized reference to his lack of just hardening the frak up? F Would you like to know more?
Cara Forelli Green Skull LLC 672	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:23:38 - [48] - Quote 13kr1d1 wrote: In terrible, low brow communities, yes. I've been around decent society myself. Look again. "Princesses with potty-mouths" comes to mind. Swearing excessively is becoming the "norm" for that age group. (And in that specific video they are actually encouraged by adults!) Which is irrelevant. Parents shouldn't be letting their 10-12 year olds play EvE, just like they should't let them hang out at bars. It is a parent's job to regulate what their child is exposed to. You cannot expect the entire internet to bend to your ideals. And this coming from someone that has not uttered a swear-word in my life. I find it rather undermines your apparent intelligence. But it would be absurd for me to expect the same conduct from others. Everyone has different values. Slurs are somewhat of a different of story. For me ignoring/blocking works just fine. Others are offended more easily. To them, I would say not "man up!", but "why do you let what people say affect you so much?" Words are just words. I'm not condoning their use, but you make a conscious decision whether or not to affected. Choose not to be affected. www.ensignyooch.wordpress.com New player with questions? Just want to chat? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Shiloh Templeton Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 185	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:00:32 - [49] - Quote "sticks and stones" ... The only power words in a video game have is the power you give them.
Kalwas Denitas 3	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:39:20 - [50] - Quote Typical. Rather than ignoring or blocking something lets get on a soapbox and demand change for the injustice! After this we can get together and save the polar bears, stop global warming, and give out free 1st place ribbons to all the people who want to play EVE but cant because they are poor. Activists unite!

Ronand deReide Taurus Quantum Technologies Taurus Quantum Dynamics 2	Posted - 2014.10.28 20:06:29 - [51] - Quote Shiloh Templeton wrote: "sticks and stones" ... The only power words in a video game have is the power you give them. This.
Clavain Conjoined Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 14	Posted - 2014.10.28 20:33:43 - [52] - Quote Kalwas Denitas wrote: Typical. Rather than ignoring or blocking something lets get on a soapbox and demand change for the injustice! After this we can get together and save the polar bears, stop global warming, and give out free 1st place ribbons to all the people who want to play EVE but cant because they are poor. Activists unite! Typical? I don't get it. You make a sarcastic remark, but then include actual, real problems. Not sure what you're going for here. Seems like you're suggesting that global warming, melting ice caps and the loss of natural environment for polar bears are what... not real problems? Not deserving of attention? You know that we did land on the moon, right?
Butts Alad Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 14	Posted - 2014.10.28 20:33:43 - [53] - Quote Kalwas Denitas wrote: Typical. Rather than ignoring or blocking something lets get on a soapbox and demand change for the injustice! After this we can get together and save the polar bears, stop global warming, and give out free 1st place ribbons to all the people who want to play EVE but cant because they are poor. Activists unite! Typical? I don't get it. You make a sarcastic remark, but then include actual, real problems. Not sure what you're going for here. Seems like you're suggesting that global warming, melting ice caps and the loss of natural environment for polar bears are what... not real problems? Not deserving of attention? You know that we did land on the moon, right?
Kalwas Denitas 4	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:04:15 - [54] - Quote Clavain Conjoined wrote: Kalwas Denitas wrote: Typical. Rather than ignoring or blocking something lets get on a soapbox and demand change for the injustice! After this we can get together and save the polar bears, stop global warming, and give out free 1st place ribbons to all the people who want to play EVE but cant because they are poor. Activists unite! Typical? I don't get it. You make a sarcastic remark, but then include actual, real problems. Not sure what you're going for here. Seems like you're suggesting that global warming, melting ice caps and the loss of natural environment for polar bears are what... not real problems? Not deserving of attention? You know that we did land on the moon, right? I just said.. Typical. And none of my post was meant to be sarcastic. I really think that we should all band together to FIX all of the problems in the world. After world hunger, lets end all war, FOREVER. To get warmed up, we can start with people saying mean things because it hurts our feelings and its not enough to ignore them. We must convert and punish those who do not agree with our vision. 100% serious.
Clavain Conjoined Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 14	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:27:22 - [55] - Quote Kalwas Denitas wrote: Im already giving the Polar Bears $$ every month and all I get is a picture of him on some ice and he always looks the same age.. Kalwas Denitas wrote: All of this discussion is very important. We need to stamp out profanity in EVE. Nice edits... your post needed them.
Butts Alad Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 14	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:27:22 - [56] - Quote Kalwas Denitas wrote: Im already giving the Polar Bears $$ every month and all I get is a picture of him on some ice and he always looks the same age.. Kalwas Denitas wrote: All of this discussion is very important. We need to stamp out profanity in EVE. Nice edits... your post needed them.
Kalwas Denitas 4	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:30:08 - [57] - Quote Clavain Conjoined wrote: Kalwas Denitas wrote: Im already giving the Polar Bears $$ every month and all I get is a picture of him on some ice and he always looks the same age.. Kalwas Denitas wrote: All of this discussion is very important. We need to stamp out profanity in EVE. Nice edits... your post needed them. Im cooking and on a mobile, thanks. Glad to know you got the point.
13kr1d1 Hedion University Amarr Empire 21	Posted - 2014.10.28 23:10:28 - [58] - Quote Kalwas Denitas wrote: Typical. Rather than ignoring or blocking something lets get on a soapbox and demand change for the injustice! After this we can get together and save the polar bears, stop global warming, and give out free 1st place ribbons to all the people who want to play EVE but cant because they are poor. Activists unite! Hey, there's no problem with the report function if someone offends you. Nothing has to be changed.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE 726	Posted - 2014.10.29 04:27:33 - [59] - Quote Tyler Hail wrote: Clavain Conjoined wrote: Also, keep in mind that it has a lot to do with how the word is used. Saying a word has multiple meanings around the world could be true and is all well and good in a sterile academic argument, but when it's used to say something like "I'm glad that F will burn in hell" well, it's clear that's hate and the multiple meanings are moot. This very much. As a genderqueer lgbt player, there's a vast difference between my reaction to someone saying "God, that was so gay" and someone saying "Fa**ots will burn in hell" or something similar regarding any minority. The first is most likely ignorance and I can brush that off, block the person if they keep doing it and move on. But people bashing gays or women or people of color...it's obvious when the meaning behind it is more than just ignorance or an immature attempt at riling someone up and any excuse of 'cultural differences' is a total strawman. Hate is hate and if hate is motivating the use of the word, it's offensive and deserves reporting. Ignorance is something else and bears, imo, a little leeway. the first was something I picked up around 7 years old, and quite literally couldn't have known better (and used for years). The second I learned some number of years later and more or less went along for a while, then pretty much realized it was quite wrong sometime in my teens. Now I try to not use either. Luckily in all my time in eve I haven't had to deal with anyone who has made anything like this an issue, and I will say corp/alliance TS did get quite raunchy at times. I'll join the chorus asking CCP, don't take my fancy names away from me! In the name of the Limos, the Malkuth, and the Arbalest, so help me pod - Mara Rinn
Sol Project Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 46	Posted - 2014.10.29 11:58:36 - [60] - Quote "Kind Sir, you have destroyed my vessel and put my pod back into the clonevat. I have to tell you that I am very angry about this. You should know that my feelings towards you are very negative right now." - "Thank you for your message. I will feast on your words and anger like a Lord, which was the whole purpose of my activity in the first place. If you have anything more to say to me, please do not hesitate." "Yes, I actually do. It is beyond my understanding why you would destroy my ship and capsule. I am thinking lots of angry words about you and close relatives of yours." - "Dear Sir. The pleasure is fully on my side. I am always happy when people inform me about their feelings, especially when it comes to close relatives of mine." "Please go enjoy yourself. It would please me most, if you did so with your father. Please have a nice day." - "I will do so, of course. You too, my friend" What bothers me most is the hypocrisy of people who are easily offended. Their emotional shallowness can be overcome by proper actions. Easily. Blocking does not protect anyone from gunfire. You all who believe that you have a right in demanding that others live and behave how you want them to, need to remember that there is nothing you can say that will protect you from someone who believes the same as you do, but rather lets actions speak for him.



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