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Broken caldari ships/skills/modules

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Kamikaaazi	Posted - 2006.08.21 13:45:00 - [1] BROKEN SHIPS: Flycatcher - has 1 totally usless bonus. You cant fit t2 standard launchers on that thing so small missile precision bonus is useless. Swap it to something more useful or increase grid and cpu. Nighthawk - yeah, caracal can do its job for 20 times less isk. BROKEN SKILLS: Tactical shield manipulation (RANK 4 !!!) - plz make it do something. ATM its just waste of skill training time. Shield upgrades - How much is 5% of 1 grid? ALOT? Dont think so, plz change this skill so that it reduces cpu usage instead of grid. Warhead upgrades - hell yeah, rank5 skill for 2% damage increase? Does anyone see something wrong when you look at surgical strikes 3% damage from rank4 skill? BROKEN MODULES: Ballistic control system I (II) - tech1 takes 35 cpu, tech2 40 cpu while gun damage mods take only 30 cpu (yes, t2 takes 30 allso). FoF and defender missiles - we should get more options with those things. XL shield boosters - These things take way too much cpu. Sure other races got some similar problems but i cant tell about those since im a pure caldari. Feel free to express your own ideas. Im sure i missed some things.
HippoKing Caldari Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.08.21 13:51:00 - [2] Also broken t2 skill progression. Fix this way: Introduce Assault Missiles Announce VERY publically that in 3months, a patch will be released in which the prequestites for t2 missiles will be increased, and if you do not have them, you will be unable to use the launchers. In that patch, once everyone has had fair warning and knows what is coming: Change the skill trees for t2 cruise to: Cruise Missile Specialisation I Cruise Missiles V Heavy Missile Specialisation IV Heavy Missiles V Standard Missile Specialisation IV Standard Missiles V Change the skill trees for t2 torps to: Torpedo Specialisation I Torpedoes V Assault Missile Specialisation IV Assault Missiles V Rocket Specialisation IV Rockets V Remove the rapid launch/sharpshooter reqs from t2 guns Laugh at the people who didn't pay attention and missed the changes
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.08.21 13:54:00 - [3] For fear of forum bannage I am going to contain my rage here As to the CPU Issue, you may find that Caldari ships as a whole tend to have more CPU to play with Defenders are being fixed afaik FoF.... Can my guns shoot while jammed ? No... Make the most of them. (Though when they decide to shoot a random non agressed targets I do feel your pain lol) Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
PeeWee Pee Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.21 13:55:00 - [4] Originally by: HippoKing Also broken t2 skill progression. Fix this way: Introduce Assault Missiles Announce VERY publically that in 3months, a patch will be released in which the prequestites for t2 missiles will be increased, and if you do not have them, you will be unable to use the launchers. In that patch, once everyone has had fair warning and knows what is coming: Change the skill trees for t2 cruise to: Cruise Missile Specialisation I Cruise Missiles V Heavy Missile Specialisation IV Heavy Missiles V Standard Missile Specialisation IV Standard Missiles V Change the skill trees for t2 torps to: Torpedo Specialisation I Torpedoes V Assault Missile Specialisation IV Assault Missiles V Rocket Specialisation IV Rockets V Remove the rapid launch/sharpshooter reqs from t2 guns Laugh at the people who didn't pay attention and missed the changes no ufcking thanks cheapo king i no trust anyone whoz make more than five posts a day on da whorum on a daily basis everyday
Stormhold FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.21 13:56:00 - [5] Edited by: Stormhold on 21/08/2006 13:57:06 Originally by: HippoKing stuff Unfair as hell, it should be so that there's "Small missiles" affecting std/rocket launchers and then specs, "Medium missiles" for heavies/assaults and "Large missiles" for torpedoes and cruises. Then again that'd be hard to fix since that'd scrap out 6 skills and add 3 new. This comes from someone who can't use t2 siege/cruises and isn't planning to be able to. In fact the change wouldn't affect my ability to use t2 at all.
PeeWee Pee Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.21 13:57:00 - [6] Originally by: Stormhold Originally by: HippoKing Also broken t2 skill progression. Fix this way: Introduce Assault Missiles Announce VERY publically that in 3months, a patch will be released in which the prequestites for t2 missiles will be increased, and if you do not have them, you will be unable to use the launchers. In that patch, once everyone has had fair warning and knows what is coming: Change the skill trees for t2 cruise to: Cruise Missile Specialisation I Cruise Missiles V Heavy Missile Specialisation IV Heavy Missiles V Standard Missile Specialisation IV Standard Missiles V Change the skill trees for t2 torps to: Torpedo Specialisation I Torpedoes V Assault Missile Specialisation IV Assault Missiles V Rocket Specialisation IV Rockets V Remove the rapid launch/sharpshooter reqs from t2 guns Laugh at the people who didn't pay attention and missed the changes Unfair as hell, it should be so that there's "Small missiles" affecting std/rocket launchers and then specs, "Medium missiles" for heavies/assaults and "Large missiles" for torpedoes and cruises. Then again that'd be hard to fix since that'd scrap out 6 skills and add 3 new. i take dat. gives me more bonii i no trust anyone whoz make more than five posts a day on da whorum on a daily basis everyday
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.21 13:58:00 - [7] I love that HK isnt afraid of being controversal though. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
HippoKing Caldari Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.08.21 13:59:00 - [8] Oh god please don't quote the whole thing Just do a quote like this: Originally by: HippoKing Really fracking long post
Kamikaaazi	Posted - 2006.08.21 14:01:00 - [9] Edited by: Kamikaaazi on 21/08/2006 14:01:59 Originally by: HippoKing all that long missile skill req talk... looks fine IF we allso get atleast 3 different launchers per skill. Just like you guys got electon/ion/neutron or 75mm/125mm/150mm etc.
Deja Thoris Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.21 14:03:00 - [10] At the risk of being pedantic these arent only "caldari problems" Last I looked other ships have missiles and can shield tank. At the end of the day if this list is all the OP can come up with then the game is pretty damn well balanced.

HippoKing Caldari Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.08.21 14:05:00 - [11] Originally by: PeeWee Pee Originally by: HippoKing stuff no ufcking thanks cheapo king Ah yes, abuse. Now I see the error of my ways. You have shown me the light. Originally by: Stormhold Originally by: HippoKing stuff Unfair as hell, it should be so that there's "Small missiles" affecting std/rocket launchers and then specs, "Medium missiles" for heavies/assaults and "Large missiles" for torpedoes and cruises. Then again that'd be hard to fix since that'd scrap out 6 skills and add 3 new. This comes from someone who can't use t2 siege/cruises and isn't planning to be able to. In fact the change wouldn't affect my ability to use t2 at all. Missiles aren't meant to be identical to turrets, but at the moment, it takes a fraction of the amount of skills to use t2 cruise or torps as large guns of any kind. I'd rather see it get closer together with a slight bias towards one or the other than the massive gulf we have now). If the difference in skills was too big, maybe don't remove the rapid firing/sharpshooter skiills. And yes, I am aware I said rapid launch in the first post. Just a typo. Originally by: PeeWee Pee i take dat. gives me more bonii What benefits you isn't a good justification for balance.
Laythun Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.08.21 14:05:00 - [12] Originally by: HippoKing Oh god please don't quote the whole thing Just do a quote like this: Originally by: HippoKing Really fracking long post I agree with Mr King here. Change the prereq for missiles to mirro gunnery! OP caldari have more CPU, tactical shield manipulation does do something, read the description. *See You In Space Cowboy*
Chronus26 Gallente STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.21 14:05:00 - [13] Originally by: Kamikaaazi BROKEN SKILLS: Tactical shield manipulation (RANK 4 !!!) - plz make it do something. ATM its just waste of skill training time. So training it to level 4 to use T2 sheild hardners is a waste of time? Originally by: Kamikaaazi BROKEN MODULES: XL shield boosters - These things take way too much cpu. Thats funny, I can fit my ravens with an XL T2 booster and Torps resonably easy, much easier than fitting a Megathron... or a Domi... If you have trouble fitting one, your doing somthing horribly wrong. -----
Kamikaaazi	Posted - 2006.08.21 14:08:00 - [14] Originally by: Chronus26 Originally by: Kamikaaazi BROKEN SKILLS: Tactical shield manipulation (RANK 4 !!!) - plz make it do something. ATM its just waste of skill training time. So training it to level 4 to use T2 sheild hardners is a waste of time? yes it is a waste of time since this skill doesnt give me any real bonuses.
Chronus26 Gallente STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.21 14:10:00 - [15] Originally by: Kamikaaazi Originally by: Chronus26 Originally by: Kamikaaazi BROKEN SKILLS: Tactical shield manipulation (RANK 4 !!!) - plz make it do something. ATM its just waste of skill training time. So training it to level 4 to use T2 sheild hardners is a waste of time? yes it is a waste of time since this skill doesnt give me any real bonuses. I'd say its worth it just for the hardners, but yes maybe a more useful bonus could be applied but i'd say there are alot more things higher up on the priorities list ATM. -----
Twilight Moon Minmatar eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.21 14:10:00 - [16] Edited by: Twilight Moon on 21/08/2006 14:11:34 Originally by: Kamikaaazi BROKEN SHIPS: Flycatcher - has 1 totally usless bonus. You cant fit t2 standard launchers on that thing so small missile precision bonus is useless. Swap it to something more useful or increase grid and cpu. What do you mean you can't? You can. Maybe you should rephrase that to "I can't fit as many T2 Standard Launchers on the Flycatcher as I want to".....in which case me awnser would be to tell you to buy a Caracal, and put 5x T2 Assault Launchers on it. Edit: What do you mean its "useless" when you refer to the bonus by the way? Why do you insist its useless without T2 Launchers. Fit T1 Launchers, the bonus affects all light missiles. ...on the other hand using a banana might be a viable alternative.
Kamikaaazi	Posted - 2006.08.21 14:12:00 - [17] Originally by: Laythun Originally by: HippoKing Oh god please don't quote the whole thing Just do a quote like this: Originally by: HippoKing Really fracking long post I agree with Mr King here. Change the prereq for missiles to mirro gunnery! OP caldari have more CPU, tactical shield manipulation does do something, read the description. ooh it does? Lets release a rank 4 armor manipulation skill that prevents damage from penetrating the armor. AND heres the best part, you need it at lvl5 just to use capital armor reppers. Really useful skill, isnt it?
HippoKing Caldari Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.08.21 14:18:00 - [18] Originally by: Kamikaaazi Originally by: Laythun Originally by: HippoKing Oh god please don't quote the whole thing Just do a quote like this: Originally by: HippoKing Really fracking long post I agree with Mr King here. Change the prereq for missiles to mirro gunnery! OP caldari have more CPU, tactical shield manipulation does do something, read the description. ooh it does? Lets release a rank 4 armor manipulation skill that prevents damage from penetrating the armor. AND heres the best part, you need it at lvl5 just to use capital armor reppers. Really useful skill, isnt it? Yes, it is if you want to fly capitals
Kamikaaazi	Posted - 2006.08.21 14:18:00 - [19] Originally by: Twilight Moon Edited by: Twilight Moon on 21/08/2006 14:11:34 Originally by: Kamikaaazi BROKEN SHIPS: Flycatcher - has 1 totally usless bonus. You cant fit t2 standard launchers on that thing so small missile precision bonus is useless. Swap it to something more useful or increase grid and cpu. What do you mean you can't? You can. Maybe you should rephrase that to "I can't fit as many T2 Standard Launchers on the Flycatcher as I want to".....in which case me awnser would be to tell you to buy a Caracal, and put 5x T2 Assault Launchers on it. Edit: What do you mean its "useless" when you refer to the bonus by the way? Why do you insist its useless without T2 Launchers. Fit T1 Launchers, the bonus affects all light missiles. I got an alt that can use all dictors with t2 guns. I usually use heretic/eris cos of their price and slot layouts. Just trying to fit anything decent on caldari one makes me sick. I can get much better fittings on heretic than i can get on flycatcher. By "useless" i mean that its a bonus that doesnt affect rockets and since i can fit standard launchers without problems id say its a useless bonus.
Sakura Nihil Tharsis Security	Posted - 2006.08.21 14:25:00 - [20] T2 missile spammers do have it a bit too easy, I'm afraid . Lead the way Hippo! OMG, WCS Nerf!

Kamikaaazi	Posted - 2006.08.21 14:29:00 - [21] Edited by: Kamikaaazi on 21/08/2006 14:28:55 Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Kamikaaazi Originally by: Laythun Originally by: HippoKing ... Originally by: HippoKing ... ... ... Yes, it is if you want to fly capitals You can all you want, but it wont change the fact that im right and its a usless timesink skill.
Kamikaaazi	Posted - 2006.08.21 14:30:00 - [22] Originally by: Sakura Nihil T2 missile spammers do have it a bit too easy, I'm afraid . Lead the way Hippo! gee, thats alot of useful information. Was there anything you acctually wanted to say?
Laythun Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.08.21 14:32:00 - [23] Originally by: Kamikaaazi Originally by: Laythun Originally by: HippoKing Oh god please don't quote the whole thing Just do a quote like this: Originally by: HippoKing Really fracking long post I agree with Mr King here. Change the prereq for missiles to mirro gunnery! OP caldari have more CPU, tactical shield manipulation does do something, read the description. ooh it does? Lets release a rank 4 armor manipulation skill that prevents damage from penetrating the armor. AND heres the best part, you need it at lvl5 just to use capital armor reppers. Really useful skill, isnt it? i need hull upgrades 5 to use capital reps, whats the difference?? quit ur whining and play the game *See You In Space Cowboy*
HippoKing Caldari Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.08.21 14:35:00 - [24] Edited by: HippoKing on 21/08/2006 14:36:45 Originally by: Kamikaaazi Edited by: Kamikaaazi on 21/08/2006 14:28:55 Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Kamikaaazi Originally by: Laythun Originally by: HippoKing ... Originally by: HippoKing ... ... ... Yes, it is if you want to fly capitals You can all you want, but it wont change the fact that im right and its a usless timesink skill. No it isn't. It is not near useless if you want to fly capitals. You will die without it. If you think that makes it useless, don't train it and become famous as "that retard who fits LARs to his capitals". If you think the only reason for training skills is fort the bonus they offer, you are sadly mistaken. Why aren't you complaining about Spaceship command? 2% agility? Most pathetic bonus ever! Yet I have it to level5, not because I need 2% agility, but because I want to fly HACs. edit: as for timesinks, that's the point. Why do capitals need battleship V at all? Why not let people fly them with 1mil SP? Everything is about timesinking to a greater or lesser degree. If you took out all the timesinking, there would be no skills at all, and everyone would be maxed out pwnerers.
Deja Thoris Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.21 14:35:00 - [25] Originally by: Kamikaaazi You can all you want, but it wont change the fact that im right and its a usless timesink skill. This game is full of useless timesink skills Look at the cap navigation skills, I forget the name but some of them simply scream "timesink"
Kamikaaazi	Posted - 2006.08.21 14:36:00 - [26] Originally by: Laythun Originally by: Kamikaaazi Originally by: Laythun Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: HippoKing /quote] i need hull upgrades 5 to use capital reps, whats the difference?? quit ur whining and play the game wow, you must be one of those smart guys. Did you acctually read anything what i posted? I bet you havent even red hull upgrade skill description. You go do that and then you can come back here to apologize.
Kamikaaazi	Posted - 2006.08.21 14:53:00 - [27] Originally by: Alexander XVII The problem with changing the skill tree that everyone seems to be missing is that if you change the prereq's for T2 torps/cruise/etc, you have to overhaul the entire system. The prerequisites for the skills as HK laid out would intimate that you have to have rockets 5 to use standard missiles, followed by standard 5 to use assaults, which is not the case. Ergo, if you're going to run up the skill tree and essentially make nobody ever want to use missiles, you'd have to rework the entrie training set, which to use torps would look something like this: Torpedoes I Missile Launcher Operation V Cruise Missiles V Missile Launcher Operation IV Heavy Missiles V Missile Launcher Operation III Assault Missiles V Missile Launcher Operation II Standard Missiles V Missile Launcher Operation I Rockets V And then to use anything T2, you have to add in the specializations. So, in essence, in order to use t2 torps, in addition to training all the other ancillary skills, like the ability to fly a ship that can actually fire torps, as well as being able to use all its other modules, you'd have to train for almost 3 months straight on missile skills. This would make using missiles the most unwanted part of the game...great for those of you who are rails/hybrid/guns people. However, since I dont see CCP making such a bonehead change and angering 99% of caldari pilots as well as a decent percentage from other races by making them train rockets V before they can use standard missile launchers, I dont forsee it being a problem. Change skill tree, i dont mind. I can allready use all t2 missiles. BUT 1 things i demand if you do that. RELEASE MORE DIFFERENT LAUNCHERS! Something like 3 different launchers per different missile skill. I want "electon" siege launcher that gets bigger rof, shorter range, less fitting req, more precision etc. I want "neutron" siege launcher that has better rof, longer range, harder fitting req, less precision etc. Get my drift?
Vasiliyan PAX Interstellar Services Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.21 14:55:00 - [28] Originally by: Alexander XVII The problem with changing the skill tree that everyone seems to be missing is that if you change the prereq's for T2 torps/cruise/etc, you have to overhaul the entire system. The prerequisites for the skills as HK laid out would intimate that you have to have rockets 5 to use standard missiles ... And then to use anything T2, you have to add in the specializations. HK was talking only about the T2 progression, not raising the skills for T1 torps. Look again at the T1/T2 gunnery situation: to train large T2 guns you have to train small and medium guns to 5 whether you want to or not. This is not the case with missiles. It takes considerably less time to get T2 torps/cruise than it does to get T2 large guns.
Kamikaaazi	Posted - 2006.08.21 15:00:00 - [29] Originally by: Vasiliyan Originally by: Kamikaaazi BROKEN SHIPS: Flycatcher - has 1 totally usless bonus. And yet most of the interdictors I see are Flycatchers. I wonder why that could be? Comparing the CPU usage of weapon upgrades in isolation without considering the ships and launchers is silly. I don't see much evidence that Caldari have serious CPU problems more than other races. Shield upgrades is useful for fitting shield extenders which use noticable amounts of grid. I bet you are one of those who think that dictor is a great NPC ship? How come i never see caldari dictors in 0.0? Maybe its because they only got 1 low slot where to fit nanofibers, they are slow and they got heavy mass?
HippoKing Caldari Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.08.21 15:01:00 - [30] Originally by: Raider Zero Originally by: PeeWee Pee no ufcking thanks cheapo king Does every Caldari defend the T2 missile shortcut for personal gain, or do they really think it's fair? Not every caldari does



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