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Rawthorm
Gallente
The Establishment
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Posted - 2006.08.21 14:10:00 -
[1]
Today, like any other day our little mottly crew decide to jump an fleet escorting a freighter. (IAC this time)
Just like any other day of PvP in eve, they engage us and then proced to log off their Freighter after the jump in so there was no ability to agress and any previous agression has been erased.
Is this seriously what you had in mind when you decided to trump EvE's merits as a game for PvP?
The ability to simply log your way our of harms way is unaceptable and his has to end now.
To be quite frank, jumping into a system needs to set off your 15 minute timer, as does being shot by NPC's.
Its a simple solution and isnt exactly rocket science to think up or implement, so why has it not yet been done?
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Major Stormer
Caldari
Demon Womb
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.21 14:12:00 -
[2]
why didnt you just warp scramble the freighter? seems a rather standerd thing to do anyway.
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0.01 ISK to the first mod that writes in my sig! :D |
Rawthorm
Gallente
The Establishment
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Posted - 2006.08.21 14:12:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Rawthorm on 21/08/2006 14:12:44
 Originally by: Major Stormer
why didnt you just warp scramble the freighter? seems a rather standerd thing to do anyway.
We did. As he'd logged off it just disapeared. Agression after someone quits their client does not seem to set the timer off.
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HippoKing
Caldari
Beagle Corp
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Posted - 2006.08.21 14:16:00 -
[4]
If someone logs off before being engaged, they disappear in about 30seconds-1minute no matter what you do to them.
Your only chance is to gank them within 30seconds, but that isn't easy with freighters...
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.21 14:17:00 -
[5]
Ive created a thread about this today already... but yeah, they should really make this a priority.
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Rawthorm
Gallente
The Establishment
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Posted - 2006.08.21 14:19:00 -
[6]
And, while we are on the subject, why isnt punishment for logging off in combat harsher?
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HippoKing
Caldari
Beagle Corp
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Posted - 2006.08.21 14:20:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Rawthorm
And, while we are on the subject, why isnt punishment for logging off in combat harsher?
I think the answer is probably connection drops/CTDs.
Really does suck though as it is 
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Sonho
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Posted - 2006.08.21 14:21:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Rawthorm
And, while we are on the subject, why isnt punishment for logging off in combat harsher?
They should make the loggers all -10 .
And this bug really needs to be sorted out.
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
LoneStar Industries
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.08.21 14:22:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 21/08/2006 14:23:02
nvm, different link. 
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In the blindness, a streak fiery thread violently cuts the horizon. Bleeding golden mists, engulfing the blindness from within. Burning the darkness. The touch of dawn. |
Trevize dk
M. Corp
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.21 14:22:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Trevize dk on 21/08/2006 14:22:11
Originally by: Rawthorm
Today, like any other day our little mottly crew decide to jump an fleet escorting a freighter. (IAC this time)
Just like any other day of PvP in eve, they engage us and then proced to log off their Freighter after the jump in so there was no ability to agress and any previous agression has been erased.
Is this seriously what you had in mind when you decided to trump EvE's merits as a game for PvP?
The ability to simply log your way our of harms way is unaceptable and his has to end now.
To be quite frank, jumping into a system needs to set off your 15 minute timer, as does being shot by NPC's.
Its a simple solution and isnt exactly rocket science to think up or implement, so why has it not yet been done?
Bug report it. Bug report it here.
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Sakura Nihil
Tharsis Security
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Posted - 2006.08.21 14:22:00 -
[11]
This is a problem for PvP, good heavens I don't want to think of how many ship kills we've all lost thanks to lamers deciding to logoff to save their ships.
That being said, demanding that the devs answer you generally isn't the way to get a response  ,
OMG, WCS Nerf! |
HippoKing
Caldari
Beagle Corp
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Posted - 2006.08.21 14:23:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 21/08/2006 14:23:02
nvm, different link.
I was just quoting to point that out 
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Turiya Flesharrower
Beagle Corp
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Posted - 2006.08.21 14:24:00 -
[13]
Petition it as an exploit.
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Brisi
Sniggerdly
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Posted - 2006.08.21 14:28:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Turiya Flesharrower
Petition it as an exploit.
Won't do any good since it's not classified as an exploit (yet). A single thing that could fix this once and for all, is to have the 15 minute aggression timer activate if the person in question is aggressed after logging out/crashing.
That person would've been dead anyway if he was being attacked by players, logging out or crashing would've been dead in either case, and exiting the game shouldn't affect that.
I am Brisi, I am as One. Resistance is fertile.
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Ortu Konsinni
KIA Corp
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Posted - 2006.08.21 14:30:00 -
[15]
I agree that it sucks and should be addressed, but you need to stop calling it a bug.
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High quality pics of ALL EVE ships!
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Elliott Manchild
omen.
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Posted - 2006.08.21 14:34:00 -
[16]
I petetioned a freighter for doing this got a nice message back from a GM saying its not an exploit..
How isnt it an exploit? If they had crashed it would be ok but in cases like this you know for a fact they logged of the freighter to save it. You shouldn't be able to save ships by just hittin quit.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.21 14:39:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 21/08/2006 14:39:42
Its not a exploit because they cant determine for sure that his client didnt crash naturally. If they go around accusing people for being exploiters simply because they have a unstable internet connection or operating system, all hell will break lose.
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
DukDodgerz
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Posted - 2006.08.21 14:39:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Rawthorm
And, while we are on the subject, why isnt punishment for logging off in combat harsher?
prove why they disconnected/logged...go ahead, prove it beyond doubt that they logged off and they didn't lose their connection (I agree it's wrong, but you can't prove it was done is what I am saying).
Sorry to burst any whine bubbles but they can't prove the reason for logging off any more then they can prove the enemy is using login traps...or so the GM's claim (the GMs claim that deploying dozens of frigates full of thousands of bms each is for emergency use by those that deploy them).
You can petition it, adding to the huge Q...won't work
You can make demands/threats...won't work
You can whine and cry...won't work
You could just use/abuse the same 'tactics' at every turn and get CCP to spank the GM staff into taking action after the exploit becomes epidemic...(seems to work best)...
FRODO HAS FAILED;
BUSH HAS THE RING!!!
The HippoKing spots a new post |
BOldMan
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.21 14:40:00 -
[19]
Edited by: BOldMan on 21/08/2006 14:40:24
Originally by: Elliott Manchild
You shouldn't be able to save ships by just hittin quit.
In fact, you can. We camp a carrier with 1 mil zydrine in a conq station to escape, and he escape using logging off on undocking process with logging off in next logging process to be able to evade from our scramblers. And he did it twice even we petition that in advance to CCP. We dont have tools in game to defeat lamers.
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Sir Juri
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2006.08.21 14:47:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Turiya Flesharrower
Petition it as an exploit.
It isnt one so nothing will happen. But if you log off and get hit by someone (not npc perhaps,) just one shot it should activate 15min timer if/when logging and during that time you can warp scramble and keep him after 15min.
damn need to make a new sig... |
Twilight Moon
Minmatar
eXceed Inc.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.21 14:49:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Sir Juri
Originally by: Turiya Flesharrower
Petition it as an exploit.
It isnt one so nothing will happen. But if you log off and get hit by someone (not npc perhaps,) just one shot it should activate 15min timer if/when logging and during that time you can warp scramble and keep him after 15min.
Something like a Comerant with 4 Sensor Boostwers in the mids to lock it quick and lay down aggro?
...on the other hand using a banana might be a viable alternative.
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Ortu Konsinni
KIA Corp
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Posted - 2006.08.21 14:52:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 21/08/2006 14:39:42
Its not a exploit because they cant determine for sure that his client didnt crash naturally. If they go around accusing people for being exploiters simply because they have a unstable internet connection or operating system, all hell will break lose.
I believe it would be easy to implement something in the client's code that makes it so whenever you quit the game actively and on purpose, it is logged server-side as "user quit" or something. Then whenever something like the situation in the OP happens, you can petition it, the GMs can have a quick look at logs and determine that the incriminated player has, indeed, opted to log himself out on purpose to avoid ship loss... And of course the log would be completely different if the player's client had actually crashed or if the player had timed out.
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High quality pics of ALL EVE ships!
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Elliott Manchild
omen.
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Posted - 2006.08.21 14:53:00 -
[23]
Originally by: BOldMan
Edited by: BOldMan on 21/08/2006 14:40:24
Originally by: Elliott Manchild
You shouldn't be able to save ships by just hittin quit.
In fact, you can. We camp a carrier with 1 mil zydrine in a conq station to escape, and he escape using logging off on undocking process with logging off in next logging process to be able to evade from our scramblers. And he did it twice even we petition that in advance to CCP. We dont have tools in game to defeat lamers.
I know you CAN save ships by just quittin at the moment but im saying you shouldnt be able to :(
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Rawthorm
Gallente
The Establishment
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Posted - 2006.08.21 14:53:00 -
[24]
Originally by: DukDodgerz
Originally by: Rawthorm
And, while we are on the subject, why isnt punishment for logging off in combat harsher?
prove why they disconnected/logged...go ahead, prove it beyond doubt that they logged off and they didn't lose their connection (I agree it's wrong, but you can't prove it was done is what I am saying).
Sorry to burst any whine bubbles but they can't prove the reason for logging off any more then they can prove the enemy is using login traps...or so the GM's claim (the GMs claim that deploying dozens of frigates full of thousands of bms each is for emergency use by those that deploy them).
You can petition it, adding to the huge Q...won't work
You can make demands/threats...won't work
You can whine and cry...won't work
You could just use/abuse the same 'tactics' at every turn and get CCP to spank the GM staff into taking action after the exploit becomes epidemic...(seems to work best)...
Simple, they log the conection is closed. They crash, the conection usualy severs via timeout.
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Amerame
Section XIII
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Posted - 2006.08.21 14:54:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Twilight Moon
Originally by: Sir Juri
Originally by: Turiya Flesharrower
Petition it as an exploit.
It isnt one so nothing will happen. But if you log off and get hit by someone (not npc perhaps,) just one shot it should activate 15min timer if/when logging and during that time you can warp scramble and keep him after 15min.
Something like a Comerant with 4 Sensor Boostwers in the mids to lock it quick and lay down aggro?
You don't get it, the guy log off while being cloaked at the gate, the aggression timer DO NOT START if you're not logged on.
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Boonaki
Caldari
Suffoco Noctis
Atrocitas
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Posted - 2006.08.21 14:55:00 -
[26]
I'd have to agree with this one.
Fear the Ibis of doom!
113 |
Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
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Posted - 2006.08.21 15:01:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Rawthorm
..Simple, they log the conection is closed. They crash, the conection usualy severs via timeout.
You can easily "simulate" a crash by hitting this little "power" button on your PC. Or by plugging out your network cable.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.21 15:04:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ortu Konsinni
I believe it would be easy to implement something in the client's code that makes it so whenever you quit the game actively and on purpose, it is logged server-side as "user quit" or something. Then whenever something like the situation in the OP happens, you can petition it, the GMs can have a quick look at logs and determine that the incriminated player has, indeed, opted to log himself out on purpose to avoid ship loss... And of course the log would be completely different if the player's client had actually crashed or if the player had timed out.
Then players would hit the reset button on their pc instead. I remember when people had modems and used to pull the modem plug now and then to become temporarily invulnerable in games. :) Those were the days...
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
HippoKing
Caldari
Beagle Corp
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Posted - 2006.08.21 15:05:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Sir Juri
Originally by: Turiya Flesharrower
Petition it as an exploit.
It isnt one so nothing will happen. But if you log off and get hit by someone (not npc perhaps,) just one shot it should activate 15min timer if/when logging and during that time you can warp scramble and keep him after 15min.
Ding, you win 
Obvious solution, why it isn't there already I have no idea.
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Hertford
Ars Caelestis
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.21 15:09:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Rawthorm
..Simple, they log the conection is closed. They crash, the conection usualy severs via timeout.
You can easily "simulate" a crash by hitting this little "power" button on your PC. Or by plugging out your network cable.
I'll flesh out Rawthorm's intent with more words, maybe it will be clearer:
If they voluntarily logout from the client, the server is sent a "Client logged out" notification. This notification can only be sent by an actual client logout action.
If they press the power button, pull out their network cable, suffer from a crap ISP, whatever, that "Client logged out" notification isn't sent, and the server will eventually time-out that client's connection.
Now, a voluntary logout will have an instant effect in the game. However, a connection time-out will not take effect instantly. That's why it's called a time-out; a certain amount of time of inactivity on the connection has to occur before the server considers the client disconnected.
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