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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
451
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Posted - 2014.11.13 18:45:15 -
[91] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:...Unless I have missed something and CCP also introduces frigate class ice miners: Want to check your sanity again? 
I am tinfoiling "shattered ice" to be mined there.
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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
917
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Posted - 2014.11.13 18:45:57 -
[92] - Quote
corbexx wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Unless I have missed something and CCP also introduces frigate class ice miners: Want to check your sanity again?  frig wh's are only for the small shattered wormholes and dont apply to the standard shattered ones
And how do I get a Skiff into a Small Shattered Wormhole? |

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
4171
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Posted - 2014.11.13 19:37:11 -
[93] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:corbexx wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Unless I have missed something and CCP also introduces frigate class ice miners: Want to check your sanity again?  frig wh's are only for the small shattered wormholes and dont apply to the standard shattered ones And how do I get a Skiff into a Small Shattered Wormhole? -- elitatwo wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:...Unless I have missed something and CCP also introduces frigate class ice miners: Want to check your sanity again?  I am tinfoiling "shattered ice" to be mined there. Could be an option. Though, ice still requires ice miners and there is no frigate class ice miner. So, will you tell me where you got your tinfoil hat? I need one.
Not all Shattered wormholes are small ones.
So yes, ice it's possible to mine, in WHs.
Woo! CSM 9!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group
380
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Posted - 2014.11.13 20:31:38 -
[94] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Not all Shattered wormholes are small ones.
So yes, ice it's possible to mine, in WHs.
Would I be correct in the assumption that this is a potential testing ground for adding ice belts into normal w-space later on? |

Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1366
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Posted - 2014.11.13 20:37:47 -
[95] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:
Not all Shattered wormholes are small ones.
So yes, ice it's possible to mine, in WHs.
Would I be correct in the assumption that this is a potential testing ground for adding ice belts into normal w-space later on?
They will make you "rage-roll" your entrance until you find a shattered or provide randomly spawning belt not fixed to specific systems like in k-space imo. |

Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group
380
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Posted - 2014.11.13 20:46:18 -
[96] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:
Not all Shattered wormholes are small ones.
So yes, ice it's possible to mine, in WHs.
Would I be correct in the assumption that this is a potential testing ground for adding ice belts into normal w-space later on? They will make you "rage-roll" your entrance until you find a shattered or provide randomly spawning belt not fixed to specific systems like in k-space imo. TBH even if they do allow for bubbles it'll probably go the same route with the mordus system; bubble bath for a month or so, then when more people take interest or lose it, things start quieting down. |

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
917
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Posted - 2014.11.13 20:55:36 -
[97] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Not all Shattered wormholes are small ones.
So yes, ice it's possible to mine, in WHs.
... *sigh*
I must be really hard to understand today. 
Let's make it easier:
I still question his and all other's sanity responsible for this for putting ice belts into wormhole systems which can only be accessed by frigates as there is no way to mine them there.
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corbexx
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
916
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Posted - 2014.11.13 20:59:24 -
[98] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Not all Shattered wormholes are small ones.
So yes, ice it's possible to mine, in WHs. ... *sigh* I must be really hard to understand today.  Let's make it easier: I still question his and all other's sanity responsible for this for putting ice belts into wormhole systems which can only be accessed by frigates, ie. the Small shattered W-space systems, as there is no way to mine them there.
right in the frigs ones you wont be able to mine the ice, you will be able to mine the ore in the standardones you will be able to mine both.
reason its in both is to keep with the theme would be my guess
Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better
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Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group
381
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Posted - 2014.11.13 21:09:28 -
[99] - Quote
corbexx wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Not all Shattered wormholes are small ones.
So yes, ice it's possible to mine, in WHs. ... *sigh* I must be really hard to understand today.  Let's make it easier: I still question his and all other's sanity responsible for this for putting ice belts into wormhole systems which can only be accessed by frigates, ie. the Small shattered W-space systems, as there is no way to mine them there. right in the frigs ones you wont be able to mine the ice, you will be able to mine the ore in the standardones you will be able to mine both. reason its in both is to keep with the theme would be my guess
Any chance we might see a small-scale ice mining ship? Something bigger than a venture but smaller than a barge? |

Ceawlin Cobon-Han
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
22
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Posted - 2014.11.14 10:03:49 -
[100] - Quote
elitatwo wrote: Shocking revelation (not the ship..) coming from someone whom tought herself to read at age 2 (yes I was two years old when I figured out to read and as shocking as that may sound I figured out talking before my first birthday),
wh-space has a true-sec level of -1.
Since ice fields went into the winds and we got ice-anomalies instead, they appear on everyone's onboard-scanner. Having nobody in local also means that nobody would know when your ice-mining op get's interrupted.
That means, having ice-anomalies in wh-space also promotes pvp.
Catherine and I do not know how much more clear we have to make this to you?
Do you understand big words or "simple" ones for that matter?
Impossible to teach yourself to read, as there is no natural connection between script and sounds; someone needed to show you the connection, so your attempt to establish credibility has failed.
Having ice in no way promotes PvP, as the outsiders would have no idea it had spawned until they were in the cave itself. As they are already there, they will attempt PvP regardless of the ice. Therefore the ice has not promoted PvP.
While I understand you cave-dwellers want a life entirely on your terms, the fact is the requirement to leave your hole to get fuel is the only way to guarantee risk. Spawning ice in there is a backwards step.
-1 to the idea. |
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
453
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Posted - 2014.11.14 10:15:15 -
[101] - Quote
Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote:... Impossible to teach yourself to read, as there is no natural connection between script and sounds; someone needed to show you the connection, so your attempt to establish credibility has failed..
And since you are almost polite with everything you say, I'll respond as politely as I can.
Humans have an incredible gift of pattern recognition. So without fully understanding what it meant I was able to tell how that clock on the wall needed to look like when I wanted to watch a cherrypicked part of Sesame Street.
That show for children, where they teach you stuff with puppets, letters and numbers.
But I also have a condition that is called perfect recall memory and I can remember back to approximately 12 weeks after my birth.
So any further attempt on your part to try to sound "clever" will be futile.
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Niskin
League of the Lost
60
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Posted - 2014.11.14 16:15:41 -
[102] - Quote
Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote:Having ice in no way promotes PvP, as the outsiders would have no idea it had spawned until they were in the cave itself. As they are already there, they will attempt PvP regardless of the ice. Therefore the ice has not promoted PvP.
While I understand you cave-dwellers want a life entirely on your terms, the fact is the requirement to leave your hole to get fuel is the only way to guarantee risk. Spawning ice in there is a backwards step.
-1 to the idea.
You don't seem to understand how things work in wormholes. Currently we have to leave to get fuel or ice products to make fuel. These new holes don't change that, there will be no ice in our home holes. We will have to leave our homes to mine ice and we will have to do so in a system with no POS's. That means these systems will be part highway, part resource wonderland, and part PvP wasteland.
In addition to that it changes our choices for mining. Up until now you wouldn't catch me mining in anything but a Venture or maybe a Prospect. Now I have to make the call, do I bring in a Mining Barge for this or continue to buy ice/fuel in kspace? If I choose to bring in the Mining Barge then I'm going to be risking a more expensive ship in an area where everybody else will be bearing or shooting bears. The risk level seems fairly high, and it will be. While these new WH's are going to make our home holes a bit safer, they balance out by being more dangerous themselves.
And just to be clear, us having to leave for fuel isn't the only way we face risk. I don't know what kind of space you live in, but where I am if I'm outside a POS uncloaked and I haven't clicked "Scan" in the last 20 seconds I'm probably starting to twitch uncontrollably. |

Ceawlin Cobon-Han
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
22
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Posted - 2014.11.14 20:10:04 -
[103] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote:... Impossible to teach yourself to read, as there is no natural connection between script and sounds; someone needed to show you the connection, so your attempt to establish credibility has failed.. And since you are almost polite with everything you say, I'll respond as politely as I can. Humans have an incredible gift of pattern recognition. So without fully understanding what it meant I was able to tell how that clock on the wall needed to look like when I wanted to watch a cherrypicked part of Sesame Street. That show for children, where they teach you stuff with puppets, letters and numbers. But I also have a condition that is called perfect recall memory and I can remember back to approximately 12 weeks after my birth. So any further attempt on your part to try to sound "clever" will be futile. Someone showed you letters and sounds, meaning you were taught to read. Whether it's one-to-one with a parent, or you get it off a screen, you are not teaching yourself; someone is showing you the connections. |

elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
455
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Posted - 2014.11.15 02:17:21 -
[104] - Quote
Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote:Someone showed you letters and sounds, meaning you were taught to read. Whether it's one-to-one with a parent, or you get it off a screen, you are not teaching yourself; someone is showing you the connections.
Stop posting, noob.
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Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group
388
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Posted - 2014.11.15 05:24:39 -
[105] - Quote
Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote:elitatwo wrote:Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote:... Impossible to teach yourself to read, as there is no natural connection between script and sounds; someone needed to show you the connection, so your attempt to establish credibility has failed.. And since you are almost polite with everything you say, I'll respond as politely as I can. Humans have an incredible gift of pattern recognition. So without fully understanding what it meant I was able to tell how that clock on the wall needed to look like when I wanted to watch a cherrypicked part of Sesame Street. That show for children, where they teach you stuff with puppets, letters and numbers. But I also have a condition that is called perfect recall memory and I can remember back to approximately 12 weeks after my birth. So any further attempt on your part to try to sound "clever" will be futile. Someone showed you letters and sounds, meaning you were taught to read. Whether it's one-to-one with a parent, or you get it off a screen, you are not teaching yourself; someone is showing you the connections. While I can appreciate dissenting opinions on my forum topic, I do not appreciate what you're doing here. Please stay on topic or refrain from getting in a pissing match, since nobody wins and nothing useful is learned in a personal argument. |

Munseventy
Kikutech Kleinrock Group
0
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Posted - 2014.11.15 07:51:28 -
[106] - Quote
here a fix to everything, Prospect have a 10k Ore Hold just let them be able to use Ice strip miner. |

Ceawlin Cobon-Han
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
22
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Posted - 2014.11.15 09:08:58 -
[107] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote:Someone showed you letters and sounds, meaning you were taught to read. Whether it's one-to-one with a parent, or you get it off a screen, you are not teaching yourself; someone is showing you the connections. Stop posting, noob. The death of credibility. Yours.
Anyway, back on topic. It's a bit rich for the cave-dwellers to choose to live in a hole and then bleat about the restrictions that choice imposes on them. Now they want W-space to morph itself, to make easier their choice of habitat. I was led to believe that W-space was meant to be harsh with great rewards. The troglodytes want the great rewards without the harsh, and being forced out of their pits into the sunlight is one of the components of 'harsh'.
Unfortunately, this topic will never be resolved. The cave-dwellers will continue to contrive ever more ridiculous reasons for why it's a good idea, regardless of any logic applied to the subject. |

Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group
389
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Posted - 2014.11.16 04:46:49 -
[108] - Quote
Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote:elitatwo wrote:Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote:Someone showed you letters and sounds, meaning you were taught to read. Whether it's one-to-one with a parent, or you get it off a screen, you are not teaching yourself; someone is showing you the connections. Stop posting, noob. The death of credibility. Yours. Anyway, back on topic. It's a bit rich for the cave-dwellers to choose to live in a hole and then bleat about the restrictions that choice imposes on them. Now they want W-space to morph itself, to make easier their choice of habitat. I was led to believe that W-space was meant to be harsh with great rewards. The troglodytes want the great rewards without the harsh, and being forced out of their pits into the sunlight is one of the components of 'harsh'. Unfortunately, this topic will never be resolved. The cave-dwellers will continue to contrive ever more ridiculous reasons for why it's a good idea, regardless of any logic applied to the subject. Despite your poor choice of words with the term 'cave dwellers' you do make a very good point. The original mechanics did not intend to cater to permanent living, and logically it would make sense not to chanchange based on emergent behavior, even if it's unexpected. That said, w-space is the only space without ice materials; if we can say that having such things as an absent local, no gates and shifting exits, what's to say that introducing new content in the form of valuable resources makes things easier in any way?
It is not only likely, but expected that this will add more potential for combat to happen. If a w-space dweller doesn't have a static to empire space and they DO have access to an ice belt you can bet they'll be mining in it. And you can also bet that it's likely at some point there's someone else in the hole hunting for them. |

Ceawlin Cobon-Han
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
23
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Posted - 2014.11.16 16:36:34 -
[109] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:It is not only likely, but expected that this will add more potential for combat to happen. If a w-space dweller doesn't have a static to empire space and they DO have access to an ice belt you can bet they'll be mining in it. And you can also bet that it's likely at some point there's someone else in the hole hunting for them. Now THIS is - finally! - a decent argument for it. While I still believe ice in W-space isn't a good thing, at least someone is thinking with her brain.
The counter is that the cave-dwellers will make sure the WH are guarded well while mining the ice and, as I said before, no-one will know the ice field has spawned unless they're already in the hole; it won't increase the rate of incursions into the hole. Roids spawn already in there, so the fact that mining ships are out in the open applies already. Still no evidence that ice in the cave improves the frequency of PvP with the denizens of the hole. |

Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group
391
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Posted - 2014.11.16 20:41:07 -
[110] - Quote
Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote: Still no evidence that ice in the cave improves the frequency of PvP with the denizens of the hole.
The evidence is that unlike roid mining, ice mining for fuel for starbase would be necessary by default if they wanted to build fuel locally in a system that can build blocks (plasma planets would be a good bet since they can already build robotics from just the plenet materials there). There is greater incentive for mining ice, and in settings like that, the planet disposition for MAKING said blocks is clearly visible, and if there's an ice belt, a pirate and his buddies after find it's occupied can say, "Hey, this place looks like a good area to get some kills; they can build blocks from the planets here and they have a belt up. Who's up for some exhumer ganking?"
If you mine it, they will come.  |
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Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group
396
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Posted - 2014.11.18 19:55:46 -
[111] - Quote
Do we have any thoughts form the devs on this for the possibility of ice or ice products being added in some fashion to the current w-space belts, instead of just the upcoming shattered wormholes? |

Jenshae Chiroptera
511
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Posted - 2014.11.19 03:35:54 -
[112] - Quote
Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote:Still no evidence that ice in the cave improves the frequency of PvP with the denizens of the hole. It wouldn't be PVP, just a few more served up lame ganks.
The ice would take the head ache out of getting and moving it. Not really a problem though, you can make some huge stock piles of fuel blocks and only pick them up when you are linked to particular low population systems. Then you bring in another big stock pile quickly and pop the worm hole.
Just keep a small fleet on standby, a bubbler, combat scanner and two different sized ships ready to pop the hole. I still have a typhoon that I used exclusively for popping worm holes. I knew exactly what to fit to take down each hole and I could do it quickly. Anything fast enough to try sneak in gets snared in the bubble or can't cloak.
Catherine Laartii wrote:Nullsec shouldn't have to depend on hisec for its goods and neither should w-space.
Especially if you want null to be self serving with their own trade hubs.
I would love to see destroyable gates being made between worm holes and null sec to worm holes. Say, one per alliance. (Possible chains but then you talk about weak links and reaction / flight times and have no cynos working) Destroyable null sec gates would also be interesting. Re-route and close off your space. Have people making gates into your system, have to get into theirs to blow it up.
Ideas & stuff
EVE - the game of sand castles, either building them or kicking them down.
Status: Bouncing on the diving board.
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