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Catherine Laartii Providence Guard Templis CALSF 341	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:17:25 - [1] - Quote Please add ice belts to w-space, as they are the only thing missing from the space for wormholers making their own local fuel blocks. Idea would be that they would introduce a new type of ice titled 'Ancient Silver ice' that would spawn once a week at random times. Its yield would be equal parts all ice products, and would not carry more yield than any of the normal ice types. Greater spawn frequency and heavier types as you see from a highsec to nullsec transition would also occur progressively in the higher level wormholes you see.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance 6422	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:23:48 - [2] - Quote I believe the point behind the lack of ice in Wormhole systems is that you are not supposed to be entirely self sufficient (so you can't simply seal yourself off from the rest of the game). Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. "How did you veterans start?"
Catherine Laartii Providence Guard Templis CALSF 341	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:33:56 - [3] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: I believe the point behind the lack of ice in Wormhole systems is that you are not supposed to be entirely self sufficient (so you can't simply seal yourself off from the rest of the game). The biggest question is 'why' aren't pilots supposed to be self-sufficient? Wormholes aren't sealed from the rest of the game since any hermit with a decent-sized pocket book and an alt can already live in w-space as they are, but have to defend themselves from interlopers. They just have to pay a little more for shipping blocks in from outside and keep an alt on backup in case they lose their pod and have to find a new way back if the hole closes. I find the notion that wormholes are somehow supposed to be places to take daytrips to be disingenuous. They were introduced as no-strings attatched content back in apocrypha for player to do with without any instruction or real stated guidelines. If people want to live in them permanently (as many already do), then they should have the tools to make that a little more viable.
Tonai Kion Tactical Grace Inc. Nerfed Alliance Go Away 13	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:43:48 - [4] - Quote Catherine Laartii wrote: ShahFluffers wrote: I believe the point behind the lack of ice in Wormhole systems is that you are not supposed to be entirely self sufficient (so you can't simply seal yourself off from the rest of the game). The biggest question is 'why' aren't pilots supposed to be self-sufficient? Wormholes aren't sealed from the rest of the game since any hermit with a decent-sized pocket book and an alt can already live in w-space as they are, but have to defend themselves from interlopers. They just have to pay a little more for shipping blocks in from outside and keep an alt on backup in case they lose their pod and have to find a new way back if the hole closes. I find the notion that wormholes are somehow supposed to be places to take daytrips to be disingenuous. They were introduced as no-strings attatched content back in apocrypha for player to do with without any instruction or real stated guidelines. If people want to live in them permanently (as many already do), then they should have the tools to make that a little more viable. I'll take your question and ask you, why should wormholers be self-sufficient? Null sec depends on cheap goods from high sec and npc seeded items from there to function, to say nothing of the fact that Null needs the low end minerals from high sec to do any useful manufacturing. Why should Wormholes be any different in needing another area of space to function?
scorchlikeshiswhiskey interstellar initiative Incorporated 316	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:54:38 - [5] - Quote I would rather see individual masses of ice spawn inside the existing ore anoms, not in large quantities rather more as a bonus to whoever is mining.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance 6425	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:58:53 - [6] - Quote Catherine Laartii wrote: The biggest question is 'why' aren't pilots supposed to be self-sufficient? Simple; to force conflict. Plus, no part of EVE is entirely self sufficient. - high-sec requires high-end minerals/ice and moon materials from null-sec to perform anything other than Tech 1 industry... in addition to a supply of Pirate Faction, Officer, and other very high-end stuff. - null-sec requires the vast, cheap workforce of high-sec to procure large amounts of low-end minerals as well as NPCs for skill books, faction mods, and "safe industry." - low-sec relies on both high-sec and null-sec for... well... just about everything except security status. Wormholes already allow people to mostly be self-sufficient in all but one major way; ice products for POS towers. In fact... wormholes allow you to be more self-sufficient than almost any other type of system out there. Catherine Laartii wrote: Wormholes aren't sealed from the rest of the game since any hermit with a decent-sized pocket book and an alt can already live in w-space as they are, but have to defend themselves from interlopers. When I say "sealed off" I am saying that you do not have to deal with people outside of your own turf. Catherine Laartii wrote: They just have to pay a little more for shipping blocks in from outside and keep an alt on backup in case they lose their pod and have to find a new way back if the hole closes. See! Conflict! Working as intended! Catherine Laartii wrote: I find the notion that wormholes are somehow supposed to be places to take daytrips to be disingenuous. They were introduced as no-strings attatched content back in apocrypha for player to do with without any instruction or real stated guidelines. If people want to live in them permanently (as many already do), then they should have the tools to make that a little more viable. The DEVs were orginally going to disable POSs from being anchored in WHs... but they figured that no one would do such a thing (due to the amount of effort involved in maintaining it) and let it be. People then starting living in WHs and the DEVs were pleasantly surprised. But the point still stands; if you have all the materials you need to be entirely self sufficient for what reason would you leave your system at all? How would you or other players be forced to interact with each other? Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. "How did you veterans start?"
Ix Method Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 207	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:10:14 - [7] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: Catherine Laartii wrote: The biggest question is 'why' aren't pilots supposed to be self-sufficient? Simple; to force conflict. Exactly true. It is a fairly ridiculous situation though. If the Venture could mine Ice dipping into low/null would seem much more of a reasonable compromise but for whatever reason ice is made harder to mine than ore. It would definitely be nice to see it looked at, relying almost entirely on highsec AFK miners to fuel everything seems poor. Travelling at the speed of love.
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 407	Posted - 2014.10.28 20:05:14 - [8] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: Catherine Laartii wrote: The biggest question is 'why' aren't pilots supposed to be self-sufficient? Simple; to force conflict. Plus, no part of EVE is entirely self sufficient. Shah dear, even if wh-space would get some ice to fuel control towers, you still *have* to get out of your wh or all of that precious stuff you can collect isn't worth anything. You can collect riches all day long for an entire lifetime but if you want to make isk, you need to exit the hole and sell it. Funny and not so funny stuff can happen on the way - it's conflict I believe. And for all intents and purposes you can have conflict all day long in w-space by just going there and warp to the next site on your scanner. You can kill complex runners or you could de-spawn an Empire exit so that w-space inhabitants would have to take a route through low or nullsec. For w-space to become "self-sufficient" you would need to drop an outpost egg and create a new w-space Jita. But you cannot claim sleeper-space or drop an outpost egg, nor did anyone ask for one. Conflict is enough to be had and even more if you interrupt an ice-mining op. signature
Rivr Luzade Coreli Corporation Ineluctable. 861	Posted - 2014.10.28 20:09:32 - [9] - Quote Ix Method wrote: ShahFluffers wrote: Catherine Laartii wrote: The biggest question is 'why' aren't pilots supposed to be self-sufficient? Simple; to force conflict. Exactly true. It is a fairly ridiculous situation though. If the Venture could mine Ice dipping into low/null would seem much more of a reasonable compromise but for whatever reason ice is made harder to mine than ore. It would definitely be nice to see it looked at, relying almost entirely on highsec AFK miners to fuel everything seems poor. Why do you rely on highsec afk miners to fuel your everything? You know that you can have null/low sec ice mining incursions from your WHs, right? Or you mine the ice on your own with non-afk miners. You don't have to rely on anybody, but if you don't, you have to put a bit more effort into your game. If you don't do that, why are you complaining about high sec afk miners?
Ix Method Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 211	Posted - 2014.10.28 20:14:53 - [10] - Quote You do like missing the point and getting angry don't you I said exactly the same but suggested mining barges are somewhat unwieldy for the task. Hope that meets with your approval o/ Travelling at the speed of love.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance 6427	Posted - 2014.10.28 20:21:21 - [11] - Quote Who needs ISK when you can set up your own small production line and produce all the T3s you want? Of course... that is what I would be saying if I didn't have to buy fuel blocks. And compared to FW low-sec... WH space is a goddamn vacation. Few, if any, roaming gangs... no hotdropping... cloaky ships that can probe are either deliciously squishy or completely vulnerable to ECM... I'm still trying to get a handle on the NPCs though... WH dwellers by and large have no idea how good they have it. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. "How did you veterans start?"
Lugh Crow-Slave 189	Posted - 2014.10.28 20:22:30 - [12] - Quote Catherine Laartii wrote: The biggest question is 'why' aren't pilots supposed to be self-sufficient? . Well i'm not sure if you have noticed or not but.... this is what we call an mmo. You are supposed to interact and trade with other people it breads content and conflict for all. if you want to know the best way to get ice into your WH i find chaining to drone regions. I find one day can get you more then enough to run two large towers for a month

CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 11790	Posted - 2014.10.28 20:44:36 - [13] - Quote As some people have already mentioned in this thread, we do intentionally set up resources to encourage trade and movement, leaving surpluses and deficits of certain things in different areas of space. That being said, I think we may be able to make some changes in this particular area in the near future. It probably won't be in the way you expect though. Game Designer \| Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/

Caleb Seremshur The Atomic Fallout Kids 381	Posted - 2014.10.28 20:51:34 - [14] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: As some people have already mentioned in this thread, we do intentionally set up resources to encourage trade and movement, leaving surpluses and deficits of certain things in different areas of space. That being said, I think we may be able to make some changes in this particular area in the near future. It probably won't be in the way you expect though. I seriously hope you intend to work on creating new/modifying existing sites to be more interactive and less like k-space. I would like to see something closer to the burner missions introduced a few patches ago. Also please give the corax some extra grid. A friend was just showing me a few fits of his and 2-3 fitting mods just to fill his mids is kind of sad. And don't be scared to comment on more threads we like to know what you think. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=348015 T3 OHing subsystem review and rebalance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290346 LP faction weapon store costs rebalancing
FT Diomedes The Graduates Forged of Fire 593	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:13:54 - [15] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: As some people have already mentioned in this thread, we do intentionally set up resources to encourage trade and movement, leaving surpluses and deficits of certain things in different areas of space. That being said, I think we may be able to make some changes in this particular area in the near future. It probably won't be in the way you expect though. I don't think I have ever read a more ominous Dev statement. If I lived in a WH, I'd be terrified at the implications of that statement. This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 407	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:22:52 - [16] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: As some people have already mentioned in this thread, we do intentionally set up resources to encourage trade and movement, leaving surpluses and deficits of certain things in different areas of space. That being said, I think we may be able to make some changes in this particular area in the near future. It probably won't be in the way you expect though. For Christ sake, just do us a favor and respond with a clear answer. By being vague I can only assume that another torpedo nerf is incoming because we had an idea that would make our second lifes easier. signature
Abrazzar Vardaugas Family 5000	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:43:27 - [17] - Quote So, comet mining or solar harvesting? Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics
Ix Method Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 215	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:02:23 - [18] - Quote Or death to all POS. Come on the speculation Travelling at the speed of love.
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 407	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:20:38 - [19] - Quote Or super-caps in c8 w-space signature
Catherine Laartii Providence Guard Templis CALSF 344	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:25:55 - [20] - Quote Tonai Kion wrote: Catherine Laartii wrote: ShahFluffers wrote: I believe the point behind the lack of ice in Wormhole systems is that you are not supposed to be entirely self sufficient (so you can't simply seal yourself off from the rest of the game). The biggest question is 'why' aren't pilots supposed to be self-sufficient? Wormholes aren't sealed from the rest of the game since any hermit with a decent-sized pocket book and an alt can already live in w-space as they are, but have to defend themselves from interlopers. They just have to pay a little more for shipping blocks in from outside and keep an alt on backup in case they lose their pod and have to find a new way back if the hole closes. I find the notion that wormholes are somehow supposed to be places to take daytrips to be disingenuous. They were introduced as no-strings attatched content back in apocrypha for player to do with without any instruction or real stated guidelines. If people want to live in them permanently (as many already do), then they should have the tools to make that a little more viable. I'll take your question and ask you, why should wormholers be self-sufficient? Null sec depends on cheap goods from high sec and npc seeded items from there to function, to say nothing of the fact that Null needs the low end minerals from high sec to do any useful manufacturing. Why should Wormholes be any different in needing another area of space to function? Nullsec shouldn't have to depend on hisec for its goods and neither should w-space.
Catherine Laartii Providence Guard Templis CALSF 345	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:29:21 - [21] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: As some people have already mentioned in this thread, we do intentionally set up resources to encourage trade and movement, leaving surpluses and deficits of certain things in different areas of space. That being said, I think we may be able to make some changes in this particular area in the near future. It probably won't be in the way you expect though. fangirls
Catherine Laartii Providence Guard Templis CALSF 345	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:31:16 - [22] - Quote Abrazzar wrote: So, comet mining or solar harvesting? I could definitely get behind comet mining. There was a thread somewhere about comets...
Catherine Laartii Providence Guard Templis CALSF 345	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:39:33 - [23] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: Catherine Laartii wrote: The biggest question is 'why' aren't pilots supposed to be self-sufficient? Simple; to force conflict. Plus, no part of EVE is entirely self sufficient. - high-sec requires high-end minerals/ice and moon materials from null-sec to perform anything other than Tech 1 industry... in addition to a supply of Pirate Faction, Officer, and other very high-end stuff. - null-sec requires the vast, cheap workforce of high-sec to procure large amounts of low-end minerals as well as NPCs for skill books, faction mods, and "safe industry." - low-sec relies on both high-sec and null-sec for... well... just about everything except security status. Wormholes already allow people to mostly be self-sufficient in all but one major way; ice products for POS towers. In fact... wormholes allow you to be more self-sufficient than almost any other type of system out there. Catherine Laartii wrote: Wormholes aren't sealed from the rest of the game since any hermit with a decent-sized pocket book and an alt can already live in w-space as they are, but have to defend themselves from interlopers. When I say "sealed off" I am saying that you do not have to deal with people outside of your own turf. Catherine Laartii wrote: They just have to pay a little more for shipping blocks in from outside and keep an alt on backup in case they lose their pod and have to find a new way back if the hole closes. See! Conflict! Working as intended! Catherine Laartii wrote: I find the notion that wormholes are somehow supposed to be places to take daytrips to be disingenuous. They were introduced as no-strings attatched content back in apocrypha for player to do with without any instruction or real stated guidelines. If people want to live in them permanently (as many already do), then they should have the tools to make that a little more viable. The DEVs were orginally going to disable POSs from being anchored in WHs... but they figured that no one would do such a thing (due to the amount of effort involved in maintaining it) and let it be. People then starting living in WHs and the DEVs were pleasantly surprised. But the point still stands; if you have all the materials you need to be entirely self sufficient for what reason would you leave your system at all? How would you or other players be forced to interact with each other? For the last question: A quiet c1 or c2 with a null static is a great place to retire in or take an extended vacation to. if someone can build their fuel locally then not only is the person who shacks up in a small hole able to maintain it easily enough, the big w-space alliances have some more weight off their backs for maintaining themselves. Short of banning starbases in w-space there's isn't a damn thing that the devs can do to keep people from trying to live in w-space. So in regards to the question, "If you have all the materials you need to be entirely self suffiient what reason would you leave your system at all?" well, to sell things for one. And in regards to being forced to interact with each other that's pretty easy; you can't lock your door in w-space even if you can close it. People will wander in no matter what class wh you're in, and it's still a pretty high probability that you'll run into people to fight.
Rivr Luzade Coreli Corporation Ineluctable. 864	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:45:52 - [24] - Quote Catherine Laartii wrote: Null sec depends on cheap goods from high sec and npc seeded items from there to function, to say nothing of the fact that Null needs the low end minerals from high sec to do any useful manufacturing. Why should Wormholes be any different in needing another area of space to function? Nullsec shouldn't have to depend on hisec for its goods and neither should w-space.[/quote] Null sec does not depend on High sec. At all. All the low end minerals are available in the regular belts. They just need to be mined. Null sec has all the Moon minerals necessary for any production. Null sec has the money generating capabilities as well. What's missing? Well, the change in attitude and perspective towards the game in the player base. That's all. In my opinion, EVE should not be 1 community; it should be many. None needs to interact with the other. They can be parallel societies if you will, who then have real reasons to clash and fight proper wars, not the rubbish currently (the last 4 years or so) taking place in EVE. Basically, in Null sec there should be societies living all sec levels (High/Low/Null) of EVE on their own. This would mean that the players don't have a choice about what they do if they are part of one society, they would just have to help their society struggle and hurdle forward. In the end, it would also mean that the societies have to use all their resources, which means they have to mine everything they can get their hands on in their realm, not just cherry picked anoms. And if their minerals deplete, they have to fight over new mineral grounds, new moons, now ice fields.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 940	Posted - 2014.10.28 23:21:44 - [25] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: pend on High sec. At all. All the low end minerals are available in the regular belts. They just need to be mined. Null sec has all the Moon minerals necessary for any production. Null sec has the money generating capabilities as well. What's missing? Well, the change in attitude and perspective towards the game in the player base. That's all. Unfortunately, infrastructure hub upgrades, outposts, outpost upgrades, new blueprints, and skillbooks all have to come from Empire. Many of these must be moved via freighter. So, no, nullsec is, in fact still dependent on empire, even while implicitly accepting your facile argument as truth. This doesn't even get into the nightmare of trying to trade moon minerals GÇô a very regional material GÇô-áwithout a neutral trading ground, such as empire. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Leonard Nimoy II Dark Force Protectorate Special Operators Federation Alliance 52	Posted - 2014.10.28 23:32:24 - [26] - Quote Catherine Laartii wrote: Nullsec shouldn't have to depend on hisec for its goods and neither should w-space. THIS. ^^
Tonai Kion Tactical Grace Inc. Nerfed Alliance Go Away 14	Posted - 2014.10.29 00:27:31 - [27] - Quote Catherine Laartii wrote: Nullsec shouldn't have to depend on hisec for its goods and neither should w-space. Oh cool, I guess null sec and high sec shouldn't be dependent on Wormholes for Tech 3 supplies then. Glad to see you support the inclusion of sleeper spawns in Null sec. :)
Jack Carrigan Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order 4293	Posted - 2014.10.29 00:37:03 - [28] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: Catherine Laartii wrote: The biggest question is 'why' aren't pilots supposed to be self-sufficient? Simple; to force conflict. Plus, no part of EVE is entirely self sufficient. - high-sec requires high-end minerals/ice and moon materials from null-sec to perform anything other than Tech 1 industry... in addition to a supply of Pirate Faction, Officer, and other very high-end stuff. - null-sec requires the vast, cheap workforce of high-sec to procure large amounts of low-end minerals as well as NPCs for skill books, faction mods, and "safe industry." - low-sec relies on both high-sec and null-sec for... well... just about everything except security status. Wormholes already allow people to mostly be self-sufficient in all but one major way; ice products for POS towers. In fact... wormholes allow you to be more self-sufficient than almost any other type of system out there. Catherine Laartii wrote: Wormholes aren't sealed from the rest of the game since any hermit with a decent-sized pocket book and an alt can already live in w-space as they are, but have to defend themselves from interlopers. When I say "sealed off" I am saying that you do not have to deal with people outside of your own turf. Catherine Laartii wrote: They just have to pay a little more for shipping blocks in from outside and keep an alt on backup in case they lose their pod and have to find a new way back if the hole closes. See! Conflict! Working as intended! Catherine Laartii wrote: I find the notion that wormholes are somehow supposed to be places to take daytrips to be disingenuous. They were introduced as no-strings attatched content back in apocrypha for player to do with without any instruction or real stated guidelines. If people want to live in them permanently (as many already do), then they should have the tools to make that a little more viable. The DEVs were orginally going to disable POSs from being anchored in WHs... but they figured that no one would do such a thing (due to the amount of effort involved in maintaining it) and let it be. People then starting living in WHs and the DEVs were pleasantly surprised. But the point still stands; if you have all the materials you need to be entirely self sufficient for what reason would you leave your system at all? How would you or other players be forced to interact with each other? This I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Demon your parents warned you about. \|\|CEO: Order of the Shadow\|\|Executor: The Revenant Order\|\|Creator: Tug-class Vessel\|\|
Arronicus Bitter Lemons Brothers of Tangra 1202	Posted - 2014.10.29 00:38:13 - [29] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: As some people have already mentioned in this thread, we do intentionally set up resources to encourage trade and movement, leaving surpluses and deficits of certain things in different areas of space. That being said, I think we may be able to make some changes in this particular area in the near future. It probably won't be in the way you expect though. Has there been any worthwhile consideration into making different regions of nullsec deficient in different minerals to encourage inter-regional trade instead of the entire stale status quo for all of nullsec: Import 2/3 of the mexallon you need, Export most of your zydrine, megacyte, morphite, and some of nocxium ?
Catherine Laartii Providence Guard Templis CALSF 347	Posted - 2014.10.29 01:56:57 - [30] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Catherine Laartii wrote: Null sec depends on cheap goods from high sec and npc seeded items from there to function, to say nothing of the fact that Null needs the low end minerals from high sec to do any useful manufacturing. Why should Wormholes be any different in needing another area of space to function? Nullsec shouldn't have to depend on hisec for its goods and neither should w-space. Null sec does not depend on High sec. At all. All the low end minerals are available in the regular belts. They just need to be mined. Null sec has all the Moon minerals necessary for any production. Null sec has the money generating capabilities as well. What's missing? Well, the change in attitude and perspective towards the game in the player base. That's all. In my opinion, EVE should not be 1 community; it should be many. None needs to interact with the other. They can be parallel societies if you will, who then have real reasons to clash and fight proper wars, not the rubbish currently (the last 4 years or so) taking place in EVE. Basically, in Null sec there should be societies living all sec levels (High/Low/Null) of EVE on their own. This would mean that the players don't have a choice about what they do if they are part of one society, they would just have to help their society struggle and hurdle forward. In the end, it would also mean that the societies have to use all their resources, which means they have to mine everything they can get their hands on in their realm, not just cherry picked anoms. And if their minerals deplete, they have to fight over new mineral grounds, new moons, now ice fields.[/quote] Please fix your quotes as I did not say that first part. Thank you.
Catherine Laartii Providence Guard Templis CALSF 347	Posted - 2014.10.29 02:01:49 - [31] - Quote Tonai Kion wrote: Catherine Laartii wrote: Nullsec shouldn't have to depend on hisec for its goods and neither should w-space. Oh cool, I guess null sec and high sec shouldn't be dependent on Wormholes for Tech 3 supplies then. Glad to see you support the inclusion of sleeper spawns in Null sec. :) W-space is a completely different area apart from the main map, as I'm sure you're aware. The only thing material-wise that's missing from null are blueprints, empire faction items and...skillbooks. Please refrain from introducing twisted troll-logic into this as it derails the conversation.
Rivr Luzade Coreli Corporation Ineluctable. 865	Posted - 2014.10.29 06:15:58 - [32] - Quote Querns wrote: Rivr Luzade wrote: Null sec does not depend on High sec. At all. All the low end minerals are available in the regular belts. They just need to be mined. Null sec has all the Moon minerals necessary for any production. Null sec has the money generating capabilities as well. What's missing? Well, the change in attitude and perspective towards the game in the player base. That's all. Unfortunately, infrastructure hub upgrades, outposts, outpost upgrades, new blueprints, and skillbooks all have to come from Empire. Many of these must be moved via freighter. So, no, nullsec is, in fact, still dependent on empire, even while implicitly accepting your facile argument as truth. This doesn't even get into the nightmare of trying to trade moon minerals GÇô a very regional material GÇô-áwithout a neutral trading ground, such as empire. e: fixing quote Fair enough, you have to get the upgrades form Concord. Which have stations all over EVE in Low sec. Which means you still do not depend on High sec. Jita is a player created hub, do the same in Null sec for your stuff. Obviously, players need to step away from their self-centric, egoistical gameplay to allow that to happen (Providence, anyone?). And you need to start trading between the Null sec regions and not just want to have it convenient and easy by going to Jita. Effort? Oh my. @Catherine Laartii Fixed. Can you fix your quoting as well?
Major Issue Standard Fuel Company Galactic Skyfleet Empire 0	Posted - 2014.10.29 08:51:30 - [33] - Quote Catherine Laartii wrote: Rivr Luzade wrote: Catherine Laartii wrote: Null sec depends on cheap goods from high sec and npc seeded items from there to function, to say nothing of the fact that Null needs the low end minerals from high sec to do any useful manufacturing. Why should Wormholes be any different in needing another area of space to function? Nullsec shouldn't have to depend on hisec for its goods and neither should w-space. Null sec does not depend on High sec. At all. All the low end minerals are available in the regular belts. They just need to be mined. Null sec has all the Moon minerals necessary for any production. Null sec has the money generating capabilities as well. What's missing? Well, the change in attitude and perspective towards the game in the player base. That's all. Nullsec SHOULD be self sufficient if one takes the challenge. Not every region should have everything in the same abundance to set incentives for trade. However, while this in theory holds true even now, Ice TYPES are a major showstopper now. In some regions (cough Amarr Space cough) you cannot set up proper industry, because you either have to import the right isotopes or you spend twice as much fuel blocks because your towers don't have enough CPU.
Rivr Luzade Coreli Corporation Ineluctable. 866	Posted - 2014.10.29 09:46:57 - [34] - Quote Major Issue wrote: Rivr Luzade wrote: Catherine Laartii wrote: Nullsec shouldn't have to depend on hisec for its goods and neither should w-space. Null sec does not depend on High sec. At all. All the low end minerals are available in the regular belts. They just need to be mined. Null sec has all the Moon minerals necessary for any production. Null sec has the money generating capabilities as well. What's missing? Well, the change in attitude and perspective towards the game in the player base. That's all. Nullsec SHOULD be self sufficient if one takes the challenge. Not every region should have everything in the same abundance to set incentives for trade. However, while this in theory holds true even now, Ice TYPES are a major showstopper now. In some regions (cough Amarr Space cough) you cannot set up proper industry, because you either have to import the right isotopes or you spend twice as much fuel blocks because your towers don't have enough CPU. You can use Minmatar Towers or Gallente towers, both Null sec space areas border on Amarr Null sec. If you really really must use Caldari towers, then you have to import the ice from someone, who lives in Caldari space. Trade between regions and so on; some of the border systems between Delve and Fountain and Sansha space and Minmatar space could very well turn into interesting and active trade hubs. Who does not do it? Players. How towers are important for industry, however, eludes me. There's more than enough station systems in Null sec. I also fixed your quoting.
Ceawlin Cobon-Han Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 16	Posted - 2014.10.29 10:06:11 - [35] - Quote WH not intended to be home, therefore it doesn't make it easy to live in one. This is - yet another! - attempt by WH-dwellers to take a firmer grip on the WH "they own", by reducing their exposure to hostile elements. -1
King Fu Hostile Imperial Collective Unsettled. 196	Posted - 2014.10.29 10:23:19 - [36] - Quote Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote: WH not intended to be home, therefore it doesn't make it easy to live in one. This is - yet another! - attempt by WH-dwellers to take a firmer grip on the WH "they own", by reducing their exposure to hostile elements. -1 Since you don't seem to have a clue, start by reading this devblog: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/into-the-known-unknowns/?_ga=1.52873704.1308779678.1413270597 Don't be so jelly, kid :)
Catherine Laartii Providence Guard Templis CALSF 352	Posted - 2014.10.29 14:48:51 - [37] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Major Issue wrote: Rivr Luzade wrote: Catherine Laartii wrote: Nullsec shouldn't have to depend on hisec for its goods and neither should w-space. Null sec does not depend on High sec. At all. All the low end minerals are available in the regular belts. They just need to be mined. Null sec has all the Moon minerals necessary for any production. Null sec has the money generating capabilities as well. What's missing? Well, the change in attitude and perspective towards the game in the player base. That's all. Nullsec SHOULD be self sufficient if one takes the challenge. Not every region should have everything in the same abundance to set incentives for trade. However, while this in theory holds true even now, Ice TYPES are a major showstopper now. In some regions (cough Amarr Space cough) you cannot set up proper industry, because you either have to import the right isotopes or you spend twice as much fuel blocks because your towers don't have enough CPU. You can use Minmatar Towers or Gallente towers, both Null sec space areas border on Amarr Null sec. If you really really must use Caldari towers, then you have to import the ice from someone, who lives in Caldari space. Trade between regions and so on; some of the border systems between Delve and Fountain and Sansha space and Minmatar space could very well turn into interesting and active trade hubs. Who does not do it? Players. How towers are important for industry, however, eludes me. There's more than enough station systems in Null sec. I also fixed your quoting. Ty and I fixed mine. I think it may have something to do with how bpos work now or gas processing but I'm not sure. There are also a number of people who do t3 S&I who don't live in wormholes, and last I checked stations that do reverse engineering are really damn hard to find, and may not be in ideal locations. That being said, I can agree with the sentiment that fuel blocks in general are significantly more difficult to manufacture than they should be. I think reducing the PI requirements, either by a tier level and/or reducing or homogenizing the ice product requirements would go a long way towards assisting with more player independence in regards to lowering starbase upkeep costs.
Ceawlin Cobon-Han Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 18	Posted - 2014.10.29 14:53:05 - [38] - Quote King Fu Hostile wrote: Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote: WH not intended to be home, therefore it doesn't make it easy to live in one. This is - yet another! - attempt by WH-dwellers to take a firmer grip on the WH "they own", by reducing their exposure to hostile elements. -1 Since you don't seem to have a clue, start by reading this devblog: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/into-the-known-unknowns/?_ga=1.52873704.1308779678.1413270597 Don't be so jelly, kid :) Since you don't seem to have anything useful to contribute, I read the devblog, hoping it may have the knowledge that appears to have eluded you. I must have missed the part where it extols the virtues of ice in WH-space, and how removing the need for the dwellers to leave their cosy little world would improve the game. Please point it out to me, kid :)
Catherine Laartii Providence Guard Templis CALSF 352	Posted - 2014.10.29 15:00:55 - [39] - Quote Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote: King Fu Hostile wrote: Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote: WH not intended to be home, therefore it doesn't make it easy to live in one. This is - yet another! - attempt by WH-dwellers to take a firmer grip on the WH "they own", by reducing their exposure to hostile elements. -1 Since you don't seem to have a clue, start by reading this devblog: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/into-the-known-unknowns/?_ga=1.52873704.1308779678.1413270597 Don't be so jelly, kid :) Since you don't seem to have anything useful to contribute, I read the devblog, hoping it may have the knowledge that appears to have eluded you. I must have missed the part where it extols the virtues of ice in WH-space, and how removing the need for the dwellers to leave their cosy little world would improve the game. Please point it out to me, kid :) 'cozy' is literally the last word I'd use for w-space...
Edward Olmops Gunboat Commando 228	Posted - 2014.10.29 15:53:46 - [40] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: As some people have already mentioned in this thread, we do intentionally set up resources to encourage trade and movement, leaving surpluses and deficits of certain things in different areas of space. That being said, I think we may be able to make some changes in this particular area in the near future. It probably won't be in the way you expect though. Now I am curious... What is coming up? Alternative Polarized Fuel Blocks that are made of Tritanium, but set your POS shield resistances to 0%? :-D Or how about Solar Cell Arrays that reduce POS fuel need but cost PI stuff to maintain?
Corraidhin Farsaidh Farsaidh's Freeborn 733	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:02:55 - [41] - Quote Edward Olmops wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: As some people have already mentioned in this thread, we do intentionally set up resources to encourage trade and movement, leaving surpluses and deficits of certain things in different areas of space. That being said, I think we may be able to make some changes in this particular area in the near future. It probably won't be in the way you expect though. Now I am curious... What is coming up? Alternative Polarized Fuel Blocks that are made of Tritanium, but set your POS shield resistances to 0%? :-D Or how about Solar Cell Arrays that reduce POS fuel need but cost PI stuff to maintain? Dark matter fuel blocks that explode disastrously if Michael Bey so much as points a camera at them?
Catherine Laartii Providence Guard Templis CALSF 352	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:05:40 - [42] - Quote Edward Olmops wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: As some people have already mentioned in this thread, we do intentionally set up resources to encourage trade and movement, leaving surpluses and deficits of certain things in different areas of space. That being said, I think we may be able to make some changes in this particular area in the near future. It probably won't be in the way you expect though. Now I am curious... What is coming up? Alternative Polarized Fuel Blocks that are made of Tritanium, but set your POS shield resistances to 0%? :-D Or how about Solar Cell Arrays that reduce POS fuel need but cost PI stuff to maintain? Solar cell arrays sound like a damn good idea actually...
scorchlikeshiswhiskey interstellar initiative Incorporated 320	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:29:34 - [43] - Quote Catherine Laartii wrote: Edward Olmops wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: As some people have already mentioned in this thread, we do intentionally set up resources to encourage trade and movement, leaving surpluses and deficits of certain things in different areas of space. That being said, I think we may be able to make some changes in this particular area in the near future. It probably won't be in the way you expect though. Now I am curious... What is coming up? Alternative Polarized Fuel Blocks that are made of Tritanium, but set your POS shield resistances to 0%? :-D Or how about Solar Cell Arrays that reduce POS fuel need but cost PI stuff to maintain? Solar cell arrays sound like a damn good idea actually... Possibly constructed in a secret Minmatar lab using previously scrap Sleeper loot to increase efficiency? Will it also be modeled to look like an aborted Maelstrom mating with my tower? Or, possibly it will be capable of multiple fuel types, allowing it to give C-70 a useful purpose. (I think I used the right gas, but I could be mistaken and C-70 is worth the Venture to harvest it.) This would encourage wormhole to wormhole content as, to free themselves from the reins of dreadful k-space with its shudder local chat, wormhole ninjas go forth in search of gas-fuel in other wormholes. Possibly even combining Sleeper loot/PI with lesser used gases.
Frostys Virpio The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 1344	Posted - 2014.10.29 19:37:52 - [44] - Quote Major Issue wrote: Catherine Laartii wrote: Rivr Luzade wrote: Catherine Laartii wrote: Null sec depends on cheap goods from high sec and npc seeded items from there to function, to say nothing of the fact that Null needs the low end minerals from high sec to do any useful manufacturing. Why should Wormholes be any different in needing another area of space to function? Nullsec shouldn't have to depend on hisec for its goods and neither should w-space. Null sec does not depend on High sec. At all. All the low end minerals are available in the regular belts. They just need to be mined. Null sec has all the Moon minerals necessary for any production. Null sec has the money generating capabilities as well. What's missing? Well, the change in attitude and perspective towards the game in the player base. That's all. Nullsec should be self sufficient if one takes the challenge. Not every region needs to have everything in the same abundance though to set incentives for trade. However, while this in theory holds true even now, Ice TYPES are a major showstopper now. In some regions (cough Amarr Space cough) you cannot set up proper industry, because you either have to import the right isotopes or you spend twice as many fuel blocks because your towers don't have enough CPU. With all the archon we see everywhere, I guess you could trade amarr ice for caldari ice if they want to use their cap. Well not so much soon but you had the option I guess.
Soldarius Deadman W0nderland The 99 Percent 857	Posted - 2014.10.29 20:54:40 - [45] - Quote Edward Olmops wrote: Or how about Solar Cell Arrays that reduce POS fuel need but cost PI stuff to maintain? I, too, think Solar Cel Arrays sounds both interesting and viable. Anchor enough of them and you could reduce your fuel usage to 0. But they cost a lot of CPU and/or PG. So they reduce your POS's functionality. "Remember remember the 4th of November!" Phoebe. Coming soon to Eve Online.
James Baboli Ferrous Infernum 184	Posted - 2014.10.29 23:29:38 - [46] - Quote Soldarius wrote: Edward Olmops wrote: Or how about Solar Cell Arrays that reduce POS fuel need but cost PI stuff to maintain? I, too, think Solar Cel Arrays sounds both interesting and viable. Anchor enough of them and you could reduce your fuel usage to 0. But they cost a lot of CPU and/or PG. So they reduce your POS's functionality. I would like to see this sort of thing balanced such that a standard large tower is able to run a hangar, a standard SMA and these if they are going to be introduced. This means balancing ongoing cost vs. unattended defense. Yes, I do incursions. Find out more here Tech 3 battleships. Moar battleships
corbexx eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred 822	Posted - 2014.10.29 23:47:08 - [47] - Quote Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote: WH not intended to be home, therefore it doesn't make it easy to live in one. This is - yet another! - attempt by WH-dwellers to take a firmer grip on the WH "they own", by reducing their exposure to hostile elements. -1 On a scale of 1 to 10 (you can use 11 if your super mad i guess) how mad would you be if i said i'm pushing hard to get this added to wormholes? Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better
Ix Method Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 223	Posted - 2014.10.29 23:50:31 - [48] - Quote If his head explodes you have a vote for next year. Travelling at the speed of love.
Catherine Laartii Providence Guard Templis CALSF 352	Posted - 2014.10.30 01:21:07 - [49] - Quote corbexx wrote: Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote: WH not intended to be home, therefore it doesn't make it easy to live in one. This is - yet another! - attempt by WH-dwellers to take a firmer grip on the WH "they own", by reducing their exposure to hostile elements. -1 On a scale of 1 to 10 (you can use 11 if your super mad i guess) how mad would you be if i said i'm pushing hard to get this added to wormholes? fist bump
Laura Agathon Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance 8	Posted - 2014.10.30 01:26:20 - [50] - Quote corbexx wrote: Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote: WH not intended to be home, therefore it doesn't make it easy to live in one. This is - yet another! - attempt by WH-dwellers to take a firmer grip on the WH "they own", by reducing their exposure to hostile elements. -1 On a scale of 1 to 10 (you can use 11 if your super mad i guess) how mad would you be if i said i'm pushing hard to get this added to wormholes? Go corbexx!
FT Diomedes The Graduates Forged of Fire 598	Posted - 2014.10.30 01:30:27 - [51] - Quote corbexx wrote: Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote: WH not intended to be home, therefore it doesn't make it easy to live in one. This is - yet another! - attempt by WH-dwellers to take a firmer grip on the WH "they own", by reducing their exposure to hostile elements. -1 On a scale of 1 to 10 (you can use 11 if your super mad i guess) how mad would you be if i said i'm pushing hard to get this added to wormholes? Why just WH's? This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Ben Ishikela Moira. Villore Accords 2	Posted - 2014.10.30 05:15:38 - [52] - Quote +1 for solar cells. (fuel cost vs defence) i had the idea to make a new type of wormhole that connects Wormhole/Null/low/high and is only source of ice. it should encourage competition about this precious ressource and remove self-sufficiency for all parts of space (in terms of ice). "TL;DR a Comet-System has 5 statics. each in a different random region. system only exists 24h, after that everything in it explodes in a superNova. it has plenty of and is the only place to find ICE. " this is from my thread i made because the idea is too big to be a reply. find it here.
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 409	Posted - 2014.10.30 07:55:42 - [53] - Quote Ben Ishikela wrote: +1 for solar cells. (fuel cost vs defence) i had the idea to make a new type of wormhole that connects Wormhole/Null/low/high and is only source of ice. it should encourage competition about this precious ressource and remove self-sufficiency for all parts of space (in terms of ice). "TL;DR a Comet-System has 5 statics. each in a different random region. system only exists 24h, after that everything in it explodes in a superNova. it has plenty of and is the only place to find ICE. " this is from my thread i made because the idea is too big to be a reply. find it here. Hmm.. call me a pessimist but how would you get CCP to create all the new solar systems without gates every now and then? If you "get" my science(y) drift here, a star takes a few days to form and plantes are not creates by magic, they also take a few days to form. A supernova (class 1) will end everything in a 100 lightyear radius - ouch. signature
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1631	Posted - 2014.10.30 08:01:01 - [54] - Quote Tonai Kion wrote: Catherine Laartii wrote: Nullsec shouldn't have to depend on hisec for its goods and neither should w-space. Oh cool, I guess null sec and high sec shouldn't be dependent on Wormholes for Tech 3 supplies then. Glad to see you support the inclusion of sleeper spawns in Null sec. :) And High Sec. And ABC ores in High Sec. And moon minerals in high sec also :) And Pirate faction BPC drops in high sec also.... Hey, it's almost like High Sec is the only space that is utterly dependant on other area's of space for anything higher than T1. WH's can at least do everything but Ice.
Sephira Galamore Inner Beard Society Affirmative. 376	Posted - 2014.10.30 09:43:24 - [55] - Quote corbexx wrote: On a scale of 1 to 10 (you can use 11 if your super mad i guess) how mad would you be if i said i'm pushing hard to get this added to wormholes? Why are you pushing for this? Beeing a wormholer myself, I always thought it made sense not to have ice in Anoikis. If I'm living on the rim, I would expect some reliance on known space, and the effort/risk involved with that (logistics). // Edit: I guess I'd give it a 4 on the mad scale - not really but a bit confused...
Rivr Luzade Coreli Corporation Ineluctable. 868	Posted - 2014.10.30 10:29:14 - [56] - Quote Sephira Galamore wrote: corbexx wrote: On a scale of 1 to 10 (you can use 11 if your super mad i guess) how mad would you be if i said i'm pushing hard to get this added to wormholes? Why are you pushing for this? Beeing a wormholer myself, I always thought it made sense not to have ice in Anoikis. If I'm living on the rim, I would expect some reliance on known space, and the effort/risk involved with that (logistics). // Edit: I guess I'd give it a 4 on the mad scale - not really mad but a bit confused... But it must become easier to live in this area of space in order to lure more people there. Or so goes the mantra of CCP and CSM.
scorchlikeshiswhiskey interstellar initiative Incorporated 320	Posted - 2014.10.30 13:34:18 - [57] - Quote Sephira Galamore wrote: corbexx wrote: On a scale of 1 to 10 (you can use 11 if your super mad i guess) how mad would you be if i said i'm pushing hard to get this added to wormholes? Why are you pushing for this? Beeing a wormholer myself, I always thought it made sense not to have ice in Anoikis. If I'm living on the rim, I would expect some reliance on known space, and the effort/risk involved with that (logistics). // Edit: I guess I'd give it a 4 on the mad scale - not really mad but a bit confused... Well, I would imagine that having small, random spawns of ice would encourage people to get out do non-okaysneaky things more often. Which would provide gank targets for those people who despise anything related to gasp bearing, and would give bear defense fleets the opportunity to kill some gankers, etc..... This is known as "content" I think corbexx knows better than to start suggesting massive ice spawns all over Jspace, but I think it makes sense for ice to randomly appear in WH ore anoms.
Petre en Thielles Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 93	Posted - 2014.10.30 14:01:42 - [58] - Quote Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Dark matter fuel blocks that explode disastrously if Michael Bey so much as points a camera at them? "Quick, take down the POS and destroy the fuel, Michael Bey just spawned in the hole!"
Janeway84 Its a good day to die ORPHANS OF EVE 111	Posted - 2014.10.30 14:08:45 - [59] - Quote I got a crazy idea! We got faction ammo and faction/pirate ships. What about faction/pirate fuels? Like maybe add some special bpc's that allow you to mix different fuel types to increase the effects of the fuel etc? could have side effects like combat boosters?
Ben Ishikela Moira. Villore Accords 2	Posted - 2014.10.30 14:55:46 - [60] - Quote elitatwo wrote: Ben Ishikela wrote: +1 for solar cells. (fuel cost vs defence) i had the idea to make a new type of wormhole that connects Wormhole/Null/low/high and is only source of ice. it should encourage competition about this precious ressource and remove self-sufficiency for all parts of space (in terms of ice). "TL;DR a Comet-System has 5 statics. each in a different random region. system only exists 24h, after that everything in it explodes in a superNova. it has plenty of and is the only place to find ICE. " this is from my thread i made because the idea is too big to be a reply. find it here. Hmm.. call me a pessimist but how would you get CCP to create all the new solar systems without gates every now and then? If you "get" my science(y) drift here, a star takes a few days to form and plantes are not creates by magic, they also take a few days to form. A supernova (class 1) will end everything in a 100 lightyear radius - ouch. the most precious thing about computers is that things can be automated. So these systems can respawn automatically. The science side of this Sand .... errr .... BathTub - Box is no argument for or against a feature. its all about lore/balance/social/economy/pvp... . But science? you see it somewhere? it does not have to be a superNova, but destroying the system and let it respawn after a while, has to be somehow. Alternative would be a non-exploding system that has 5 "statics" and ice-belts. but no moons or planets. and after all ice is mined, it will not respawn in this system and every static will close without reopening after a while. letting ppl get stuck there if they are not careful. no gates btw.
Ceawlin Cobon-Han Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2014.10.30 15:55:02 - [61] - Quote corbexx wrote: Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote: WH not intended to be home, therefore it doesn't make it easy to live in one. This is - yet another! - attempt by WH-dwellers to take a firmer grip on the WH "they own", by reducing their exposure to hostile elements. -1 On a scale of 1 to 10 (you can use 11 if your super mad i guess) how mad would you be if i said i'm pushing hard to get this added to wormholes? I am in no way mad, though I question now YOUR sanity.
King Fu Hostile Imperial Collective Unsettled. 199	Posted - 2014.10.30 18:17:02 - [62] - Quote Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote: King Fu Hostile wrote: Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote: WH not intended to be home, therefore it doesn't make it easy to live in one. This is - yet another! - attempt by WH-dwellers to take a firmer grip on the WH "they own", by reducing their exposure to hostile elements. -1 Since you don't seem to have a clue, start by reading this devblog: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/into-the-known-unknowns/?_ga=1.52873704.1308779678.1413270597 Don't be so jelly, kid :) Since you don't seem to have anything useful to contribute, I read the devblog, hoping it may have the knowledge that appears to have eluded you. I must have missed the part where it extols the virtues of ice in WH-space, and how removing the need for the dwellers to leave their cosy little world would improve the game. Please point it out to me, kid :) The blog states that CCP has accepted the fact that wormholes are permanently inhabited, and they love it. In other words, they are now treated equally to other parts of space in terms of living. Please point out how having to haul ice into wormholes improves the game, kid.
Cidanel Afuran Astro Technologies Apocalypse Now. 55	Posted - 2014.10.30 18:17:32 - [63] - Quote Add comets that randomly spawn in any system (including WHs) How does it work? A comet spawns randomly in a system, it has ice as an outer layer, once the ice is gone, it has minerals as a second layer, and when that is gone, a little moon goo as the core. There is a trail of gas that can be mined as well. The trick is, it moves at 1000 m/s (unless you web it), and particles fall off (so you take damage from the comet itself while mining). It has to be scanned down to be found.
Sam Spock The Scope Gallente Federation 10	Posted - 2014.10.30 20:19:06 - [64] - Quote They are adding null sec data and relic sites to w-space right? Add a single ice rock to some of them. Make it a random type. You can get some ice but you won't have any choice as to what it is.
Humang Sefem Velox Swift Angels Alliance 75	Posted - 2014.10.30 22:27:10 - [65] - Quote Not totally sold on having ice available in WH's, and the reason for this opinion is that I like the reliance that each type of space has on the others. But in saying that I won't say no and deny it to others if they want it. However as someone that runs/has run a POS in w-space, I certainly will give a big +1 to the idea of a solar-array POS module (with fitting requirements and such) that you anchor to reduce fuel use as an alternative. (restrict it to w-space maybe) AFK cloaking thread Summary - Provided by Paikis Good Post Etiquette - Provided by CCP Grayscale
Catherine Laartii Providence Guard Templis CALSF 354	Posted - 2014.10.30 23:00:22 - [66] - Quote Humang wrote: Not totally sold on having ice available in WH's, and the reason for this opinion is that I like the reliance that each type of space has on the others. But in saying that I won't say no and deny it to others if they want it. However as someone that runs/has run a POS in w-space, I certainly will give a big +1 to the idea of a solar-array POS module (with fitting requirements and such) that you anchor to reduce fuel use as an alternative. (restrict it to w-space maybe) Even if you have ice in w-space, you still rely on hisec and lowsec to a certain degree in the same way null does. There are no locally-seeded items like blueprints or skill books, so you'd still have to rely on empire space. Also an even bigger factor is that there's absolutely nowhere to sell your stuff you pick up locally since there aren't any stations in w-space. That's a BIG factor right there.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1639	Posted - 2014.10.30 23:43:20 - [67] - Quote Catherine Laartii wrote: Even if you have ice in w-space, you still rely on hisec and lowsec to a certain degree in the same way null does. There are no locally-seeded items like blueprints or skill books, so you'd still have to rely on empire space. Also an even bigger factor is that there's absolutely nowhere to sell your stuff you pick up locally since there aren't any stations in w-space. That's a BIG factor right there. Except that is NPC reliance. Including selling your stuff to the NPC Buy orders. You become utterly independent from other PLAYERS which is the key interaction point. And why no Ice in WH's is a good thing. Or at least no reliable Ice. I don't mind a little random spawn that allows people a little fuel block building but not enough to be sustainable. I do mind sustainable living.
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 410	Posted - 2014.10.30 23:54:40 - [68] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Catherine Laartii wrote: Even if you have ice in w-space, you still rely on hisec and lowsec to a certain degree in the same way null does. There are no locally-seeded items like blueprints or skill books, so you'd still have to rely on empire space. Also an even bigger factor is that there's absolutely nowhere to sell your stuff you pick up locally since there aren't any stations in w-space. That's a BIG factor right there. Except that is NPC reliance. Including selling your stuff to the NPC Buy orders. You become utterly independent from other PLAYERS which is the key interaction point. And why no Ice in WH's is a good thing. Or at least no reliable Ice. I don't mind a little random spawn that allows people a little fuel block building but not enough to be sustainable. I do mind sustainable living. Nevyn, dear! wh-folks would not become self-sufficient since you have no way of trading things unless you come back to known space. Sleeper ships have zero bounty on them so the only way you can make isk, is to go to Jita or Amarr or Dodi, you name it. And there is this tiny detail that you cannot dock anywhere or get your gear in except you bring it yourself. signature
Catherine Laartii Providence Guard Templis CALSF 355	Posted - 2014.10.31 03:10:17 - [69] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Catherine Laartii wrote: Even if you have ice in w-space, you still rely on hisec and lowsec to a certain degree in the same way null does. There are no locally-seeded items like blueprints or skill books, so you'd still have to rely on empire space. Also an even bigger factor is that there's absolutely nowhere to sell your stuff you pick up locally since there aren't any stations in w-space. That's a BIG factor right there. Except that is NPC reliance. Including selling your stuff to the NPC Buy orders. You become utterly independent from other PLAYERS which is the key interaction point. And why no Ice in WH's is a good thing. Or at least no reliable Ice. I don't mind a little random spawn that allows people a little fuel block building but not enough to be sustainable. I do mind sustainable living. You are never independent from other players because you can't lock the door you shut behind you; even if you close the wormholes that pop up when you're on you can't be on 24 hours a day checking exits and closing them. People WILL come into your hole, and just as no man is an island you are never completely separate from the rest of the players in the game. This is not something that can be disputed.
Humang Sefem Velox Swift Angels Alliance 75	Posted - 2014.10.31 07:17:00 - [70] - Quote Catherine Laartii wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: Catherine Laartii wrote: Even if you have ice in w-space, you still rely on hisec and lowsec to a certain degree in the same way null does. There are no locally-seeded items like blueprints or skill books, so you'd still have to rely on empire space. Also an even bigger factor is that there's absolutely nowhere to sell your stuff you pick up locally since there aren't any stations in w-space. That's a BIG factor right there. Except that is NPC reliance. Including selling your stuff to the NPC Buy orders. You become utterly independent from other PLAYERS which is the key interaction point. And why no Ice in WH's is a good thing. Or at least no reliable Ice. I don't mind a little random spawn that allows people a little fuel block building but not enough to be sustainable. I do mind sustainable living. You are never independent from other players because you can't lock the door you shut behind you; even if you close the wormholes that pop up when you're on you can't be on 24 hours a day checking exits and closing them. People WILL come into your hole, and just as no man is an island you are never completely separate from the rest of the players in the game. This is not something that can be disputed. This isn't about independence in the form of isolation, but from a logistical standpoint. With the upcoming update of null-quality data and relic sites being available in low class w-space, apart from ice products and moon-goo, all other materials for science&industry would be available within w-space. If ice was available in w-space, it would open up the possibility for someone to be (granted with a lot if work) able to live logistically entirely off their own means and not need to set foot in k-space,. To generate isk a person still relies on k-space and that's a given bit with ice available, when generating the materials they need to live, that reliance is no longer essential. Without ice, anyone running a POS must venture back to k-space at some point in time, regardless of skills or numbers. Add ice and you damage one of the few reliance that w-space imposes on those of us that live here. However, in saying all that, and for a TL:DR: I am all for improving the quality-of-life of us w-space dwellers, I just think that it should come at a cost or offer unique Advantages & Disadvantages. AFK cloaking thread Summary - Provided by Paikis Good Post Etiquette - Provided by CCP Grayscale
Humang Sefem Velox Swift Angels Alliance 75	Posted - 2014.10.31 07:18:04 - [71] - Quote -snip- Gah, double post, my bad AFK cloaking thread Summary - Provided by Paikis Good Post Etiquette - Provided by CCP Grayscale
Catherine Laartii Providence Guard Templis CALSF 357	Posted - 2014.10.31 19:00:15 - [72] - Quote Humang wrote: Catherine Laartii wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: Catherine Laartii wrote: Even if you have ice in w-space, you still rely on hisec and lowsec to a certain degree in the same way null does. There are no locally-seeded items like blueprints or skill books, so you'd still have to rely on empire space. Also an even bigger factor is that there's absolutely nowhere to sell your stuff you pick up locally since there aren't any stations in w-space. That's a BIG factor right there. Except that is NPC reliance. Including selling your stuff to the NPC Buy orders. You become utterly independent from other PLAYERS which is the key interaction point. And why no Ice in WH's is a good thing. Or at least no reliable Ice. I don't mind a little random spawn that allows people a little fuel block building but not enough to be sustainable. I do mind sustainable living. You are never independent from other players because you can't lock the door you shut behind you; even if you close the wormholes that pop up when you're on you can't be on 24 hours a day checking exits and closing them. People WILL come into your hole, and just as no man is an island you are never completely separate from the rest of the players in the game. This is not something that can be disputed. This isn't about independence in the form of isolation, but from a logistical standpoint. With the upcoming update of null-quality data and relic sites being available in low class w-space, apart from ice products and moon-goo, all other materials for science&industry would be available within w-space. If ice was available in w-space, it would open up the possibility for someone to be (granted with a lot if work) able to live logistically entirely off their own means and not need to set foot in k-space,. To generate isk a person still relies on k-space and that's a given bit with ice available, when generating the materials they need to live, that reliance is no longer essential. Without ice, anyone running a POS must venture back to k-space at some point in time, regardless of skills or numbers. Add ice and you damage one of the few reliance that w-space imposes on those of us that live here. However, in saying all that, and for a TL:DR: I am all for improving the quality-of-life of us w-space dwellers, I just think that it should come at a cost or offer unique Advantages & Disadvantages. What you're outlining is kind of the point of my thread; wormholers SHOULD be able to independently support their own starbases from the materials they find in the hole, "living off the land" if you will. The point you make is utterly bogus because they HAVE to go back to k-space to sell the stuff they pick up in the hole they want to sell. Being able to support their own starbases locally from the system they're in doesn't suddenly make everyone a hermit; a big draw of independent living in a lower-class wormhole is having a shifting base of ops to either do pve or pvp from null or other wormholes, and for ALL classes w-space wouldn't be worth living it at all if you couldn't sell all that glorious sleeper loot. And let's say for argument's sake that you're right and people become hermits and don't venture back into empire space except to occasionally sell a few things. What exactly is the problem? W-space corps that have any interest in pvp tend to pop around in other peoples' holes to run sites and look for fights anyway, so there's content being generated there. The pilots who are entrenched in their hole will defend it more viciously, and gfs will abound while people living there will continue to make pretty decent amounts of income.
Humang Sefem Velox Swift Angels Alliance 76	Posted - 2014.10.31 19:40:08 - [73] - Quote Yes, I said that people would still need to go to k-space to make isk so that dependency would still be there regardless. Apart from that however, the only other logistical reason to leave is for fuel runs. But I get what you are saying, you say you should be able to support a POS from materials found in w-space and I think otherwise. I'm not saying its a bad idea, I would love some quality-of-life content, it's just that I would prefer an alternative to just having ice in w-space. AFK cloaking thread Summary - Provided by Paikis Good Post Etiquette - Provided by CCP Grayscale
Catherine Laartii Providence Guard Templis CALSF 358	Posted - 2014.11.01 07:50:02 - [74] - Quote Humang wrote: Yes, I said that people would still need to go to k-space to make isk so that dependency would still be there regardless. Apart from that however, the only other logistical reason to leave is for fuel runs. But I get what you are saying, you say you should be able to support a POS from materials found in w-space and I think otherwise. I'm not saying its a bad idea, I would love some quality-of-life content, it's just that I would prefer an alternative to just having ice in w-space. ah ok; so maybe something like moon mining with special moon goo? Comets in space to get ice products and other stuff from? Exploration probes to gather wh data on the other side of a hole?
Catherine Laartii Providence Guard Templis CALSF 359	Posted - 2014.11.02 15:09:36 - [75] - Quote Can anyone think of an alternate medium to ice that provides the same products as it for w-space? Something like expanded moon mining, or redux for ice planet yields?
Scuzzy Logic Nightmare Machinery 145	Posted - 2014.11.02 17:46:34 - [76] - Quote Cidanel Afuran wrote: Add comets that randomly spawn in any system (including WHs) How does it work? A comet spawns randomly in a system, it has ice as an outer layer, once the ice is gone, it has minerals as a second layer, and when that is gone, a little moon goo as the core. There is a trail of gas that can be mined as well. The trick is, it moves at 1000 m/s (unless you web it), and particles fall off (so you take damage from the comet itself while mining). It has to be scanned down to be found. Using combat probes, Obv. This idea needs its own thread.
Catherine Laartii Providence Guard Templis CALSF 361	Posted - 2014.11.03 16:05:31 - [77] - Quote Scuzzy Logic wrote: Cidanel Afuran wrote: Add comets that randomly spawn in any system (including WHs) How does it work? A comet spawns randomly in a system, it has ice as an outer layer, once the ice is gone, it has minerals as a second layer, and when that is gone, a little moon goo as the core. There is a trail of gas that can be mined as well. The trick is, it moves at 1000 m/s (unless you web it), and particles fall off (so you take damage from the comet itself while mining). It has to be scanned down to be found. Using combat probes, Obv. This idea needs its own thread. There's already a popular forum thread for it: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=331766
Antillie Sa'Kan Forging Industries Silent Infinity 710	Posted - 2014.11.03 16:57:47 - [78] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: As some people have already mentioned in this thread, we do intentionally set up resources to encourage trade and movement, leaving surpluses and deficits of certain things in different areas of space. That being said, I think we may be able to make some changes in this particular area in the near future. It probably won't be in the way you expect though. If ever there was a reason to say "Be careful what you wish for", this is it.
Sol Project Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 90	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:19:25 - [79] - Quote Does this one influence the clock? I need a stack/queue for mass payments of ISK ingame Click the above link!
Sol Project Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 90	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:22:23 - [80] - Quote Ringmining. Ring mining. Wait, what? I need a stack/queue for mass payments of ISK ingame Click the above link!
Ceawlin Cobon-Han Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 21	Posted - 2014.11.04 15:24:49 - [81] - Quote King Fu Hostile wrote: The blog states that CCP has accepted the fact that wormholes are permanently inhabited, and they love it. In other words, they are now treated equally to other parts of space in terms of living. Please point out how having to haul ice into wormholes improves the game, kid. Accepting the fact and deciding to make cave-dwellers self-sufficient isn't the same thing, as someone with even a basic level of intellect understands. The fuel run exposes the cave dwellers to PvP during their time in k-space, thus generating content and conforming to CCP's promotion of conflict. Do you understand the big words?
Catherine Laartii Providence Guard Templis CALSF 364	Posted - 2014.11.04 18:21:06 - [82] - Quote Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote: King Fu Hostile wrote: The blog states that CCP has accepted the fact that wormholes are permanently inhabited, and they love it. In other words, they are now treated equally to other parts of space in terms of living. Please point out how having to haul ice into wormholes improves the game, kid. Accepting the fact and deciding to make cave-dwellers self-sufficient isn't the same thing, as someone with even a basic level of intellect understands. The fuel run exposes the cave dwellers to PvP during their time in k-space, thus generating content and conforming to CCP's promotion of conflict. Do you understand the big words? How do you equate living in a cave to living in a wormhole? W-space is just as connected as any system in k-space; you just have to work to find the exits. As for this myth about it having less content or less pvp, I suggest seeing how taking a small fleet into an occupied c3 goes.
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 422	Posted - 2014.11.04 18:35:37 - [83] - Quote Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote: Accepting the fact and deciding to make cave-dwellers self-sufficient isn't the same thing, as someone with even a basic level of intellect understands. The fuel run exposes the cave dwellers to PvP during their time in k-space, thus generating content and conforming to CCP's promotion of conflict. Do you understand the big words? Shocking revelation (not the ship..) coming from someone whom tought herself to read at age 2 (yes I was two years old when I figured out to read and as shocking as that may sound I figured out talking before my first birthday), wh-space has a true-sec level of -1. Since ice fields went into the winds and we got ice-anomalies instead, they appear on everyone's onboard-scanner. Having nobody in local also means that nobody would know when your ice-mining op get's interrupted. That means, having ice-anomalies in wh-space also promotes pvp. Catherine and I do not know how much more clear we have to make this to you? Do you understand big words or "simple" ones for that matter? signature
Catherine Laartii Providence Guard Templis CALSF 364	Posted - 2014.11.04 22:52:27 - [84] - Quote elitatwo wrote: Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote: Accepting the fact and deciding to make cave-dwellers self-sufficient isn't the same thing, as someone with even a basic level of intellect understands. The fuel run exposes the cave dwellers to PvP during their time in k-space, thus generating content and conforming to CCP's promotion of conflict. Do you understand the big words? Shocking revelation (not the ship..) coming from someone whom tought herself to read at age 2 (yes I was two years old when I figured out to read and as shocking as that may sound I figured out talking before my first birthday), wh-space has a true-sec level of -1. Since ice fields went into the winds and we got ice-anomalies instead, they appear on everyone's onboard-scanner. Having nobody in local also means that nobody would know when your ice-mining op get's interrupted. That means, having ice-anomalies in wh-space also promotes pvp. Catherine and I do not know how much more clear we have to make this to you? Do you understand big words or "simple" ones for that matter? I am ok with feeding the trolls in forum threads as it promotes content and pvp.
Cidanel Afuran Astro Technologies Apocalypse Now. 55	Posted - 2014.11.05 22:23:15 - [85] - Quote Scuzzy Logic wrote: Cidanel Afuran wrote: Add comets that randomly spawn in any system (including WHs) How does it work? A comet spawns randomly in a system, it has ice as an outer layer, once the ice is gone, it has minerals as a second layer, and when that is gone, a little moon goo as the core. There is a trail of gas that can be mined as well. The trick is, it moves at 1000 m/s (unless you web it), and particles fall off (so you take damage from the comet itself while mining). It has to be scanned down to be found. Using combat probes, Obv. This idea needs its own thread. I also want them to crash into planets occationally, destroying PI when they crash, so you have to mine it out, web it/bump it off course to not have it destroy your PI.
Jenshae Chiroptera 509	Posted - 2014.11.06 02:28:53 - [86] - Quote Title of thread - Yes, please. Ideas & stuff EVE - the game of sand castles, either building them or kicking them down. -á Status: Taking a break
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1652	Posted - 2014.11.06 04:55:54 - [87] - Quote King Fu Hostile wrote: The blog states that CCP has accepted the fact that wormholes are permanently inhabited, and they love it. In other words, they are now treated equally to other parts of space in terms of living. Please point out how having to haul ice into wormholes improves the game, kid. Please point out how a single region of high, low or null have all the resources they need to build everything locally..... Answer. They don't. Yes, WH's don't have T2 Moon Goo, but since you get all the T3 stuff in WH you just use T3 instead of T2.
corbexx eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred 913	Posted - 2014.11.13 17:33:10 - [88] - Quote Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote: corbexx wrote: Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote: WH not intended to be home, therefore it doesn't make it easy to live in one. This is - yet another! - attempt by WH-dwellers to take a firmer grip on the WH "they own", by reducing their exposure to hostile elements. -1 On a scale of 1 to 10 (you can use 11 if your super mad i guess) how mad would you be if i said i'm pushing hard to get this added to wormholes? I am in no way mad, though I question now YOUR sanity. time to check my sanity as ice is now in shattered wh's Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better
Rivr Luzade Coreli Corporation Ineluctable. 916	Posted - 2014.11.13 18:17:15 - [89] - Quote corbexx wrote: time to check my sanity as ice is now in shattered wh's Funnily enough also in those shattered which can only be accessed by frigates if I understand the dev blog correctly: DevBlog wrote: The seventy five Standard Shattered Wormhole Systems [...] They will contain minable ice fields. This will be the first ice available in wormhole space. [...] The twenty five Small Ship Shattered Wormhole Systems will have all the features of the normal Shattered Wormhole Systems, [...] All wormholes in or out of these systems will be small ship wormholes, meaning that only Frigates, Destroyers and Heavy Interdictors (Heavy Interdictors can use their bubble generators to reduce their mass) can enter. Unless I have missed something and CCP also introduces frigate class ice miners: Want to check your sanity again?
corbexx eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred 913	Posted - 2014.11.13 18:43:16 - [90] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: corbexx wrote: time to check my sanity as ice is now in shattered wh's Funnily enough also in those shattered which can only be accessed by frigates if I understand the dev blog correctly: DevBlog wrote: The seventy five Standard Shattered Wormhole Systems [...] They will contain minable ice fields. This will be the first ice available in wormhole space. [...] The twenty five Small Ship Shattered Wormhole Systems will have all the features of the normal Shattered Wormhole Systems, [...] All wormholes in or out of these systems will be small ship wormholes, meaning that only Frigates, Destroyers and Heavy Interdictors (Heavy Interdictors can use their bubble generators to reduce their mass) can enter. Unless I have missed something and CCP also introduces frigate class ice miners: Want to check your sanity again? frig wh's are only for the small shattered wormholes and dont apply to the standard shattered ones Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 451	Posted - 2014.11.13 18:45:15 - [91] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: ...Unless I have missed something and CCP also introduces frigate class ice miners: Want to check your sanity again? I am tinfoiling "shattered ice" to be mined there. signature
Rivr Luzade Coreli Corporation Ineluctable. 917	Posted - 2014.11.13 18:45:57 - [92] - Quote corbexx wrote: Rivr Luzade wrote: Unless I have missed something and CCP also introduces frigate class ice miners: Want to check your sanity again? frig wh's are only for the small shattered wormholes and dont apply to the standard shattered ones And how do I get a Skiff into a Small Shattered Wormhole?
Steve Ronuken Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM 4171	Posted - 2014.11.13 19:37:11 - [93] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: corbexx wrote: Rivr Luzade wrote: Unless I have missed something and CCP also introduces frigate class ice miners: Want to check your sanity again? frig wh's are only for the small shattered wormholes and dont apply to the standard shattered ones And how do I get a Skiff into a Small Shattered Wormhole? -- elitatwo wrote: Rivr Luzade wrote: ...Unless I have missed something and CCP also introduces frigate class ice miners: Want to check your sanity again? I am tinfoiling "shattered ice" to be mined there. Could be an option. Though, ice still requires ice miners and there is no frigate class ice miner. So, will you tell me where you got your tinfoil hat? I need one. Not all Shattered wormholes are small ones. So yes, ice it's possible to mine, in WHs. Woo! CSM 9! Fuzzwork Enterprises Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Catherine Laartii Dominion Fleet Group 380	Posted - 2014.11.13 20:31:38 - [94] - Quote Steve Ronuken wrote: Not all Shattered wormholes are small ones. So yes, ice it's possible to mine, in WHs. Would I be correct in the assumption that this is a potential testing ground for adding ice belts into normal w-space later on?
Frostys Virpio The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 1366	Posted - 2014.11.13 20:37:47 - [95] - Quote Catherine Laartii wrote: Steve Ronuken wrote: Not all Shattered wormholes are small ones. So yes, ice it's possible to mine, in WHs. Would I be correct in the assumption that this is a potential testing ground for adding ice belts into normal w-space later on? They will make you "rage-roll" your entrance until you find a shattered or provide randomly spawning belt not fixed to specific systems like in k-space imo.
Catherine Laartii Dominion Fleet Group 380	Posted - 2014.11.13 20:46:18 - [96] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Catherine Laartii wrote: Steve Ronuken wrote: Not all Shattered wormholes are small ones. So yes, ice it's possible to mine, in WHs. Would I be correct in the assumption that this is a potential testing ground for adding ice belts into normal w-space later on? They will make you "rage-roll" your entrance until you find a shattered or provide randomly spawning belt not fixed to specific systems like in k-space imo. TBH even if they do allow for bubbles it'll probably go the same route with the mordus system; bubble bath for a month or so, then when more people take interest or lose it, things start quieting down.
Rivr Luzade Coreli Corporation Ineluctable. 917	Posted - 2014.11.13 20:55:36 - [97] - Quote Steve Ronuken wrote: Not all Shattered wormholes are small ones. So yes, ice it's possible to mine, in WHs. ... sigh I must be really hard to understand today. Let's make it easier: I still question his and all other's sanity responsible for this for putting ice belts into wormhole systems which can only be accessed by frigates as there is no way to mine them there.
corbexx eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred 916	Posted - 2014.11.13 20:59:24 - [98] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Steve Ronuken wrote: Not all Shattered wormholes are small ones. So yes, ice it's possible to mine, in WHs. ... sigh I must be really hard to understand today. Let's make it easier: I still question his and all other's sanity responsible for this for putting ice belts into wormhole systems which can only be accessed by frigates, ie. the Small shattered W-space systems, as there is no way to mine them there. right in the frigs ones you wont be able to mine the ice, you will be able to mine the ore in the standardones you will be able to mine both. reason its in both is to keep with the theme would be my guess Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better
Catherine Laartii Dominion Fleet Group 381	Posted - 2014.11.13 21:09:28 - [99] - Quote corbexx wrote: Rivr Luzade wrote: Steve Ronuken wrote: Not all Shattered wormholes are small ones. So yes, ice it's possible to mine, in WHs. ... sigh I must be really hard to understand today. Let's make it easier: I still question his and all other's sanity responsible for this for putting ice belts into wormhole systems which can only be accessed by frigates, ie. the Small shattered W-space systems, as there is no way to mine them there. right in the frigs ones you wont be able to mine the ice, you will be able to mine the ore in the standardones you will be able to mine both. reason its in both is to keep with the theme would be my guess Any chance we might see a small-scale ice mining ship? Something bigger than a venture but smaller than a barge?
Ceawlin Cobon-Han Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 22	Posted - 2014.11.14 10:03:49 - [100] - Quote elitatwo wrote: Shocking revelation (not the ship..) coming from someone whom tought herself to read at age 2 (yes I was two years old when I figured out to read and as shocking as that may sound I figured out talking before my first birthday), wh-space has a true-sec level of -1. Since ice fields went into the winds and we got ice-anomalies instead, they appear on everyone's onboard-scanner. Having nobody in local also means that nobody would know when your ice-mining op get's interrupted. That means, having ice-anomalies in wh-space also promotes pvp. Catherine and I do not know how much more clear we have to make this to you? Do you understand big words or "simple" ones for that matter? Impossible to teach yourself to read, as there is no natural connection between script and sounds; someone needed to show you the connection, so your attempt to establish credibility has failed. Having ice in no way promotes PvP, as the outsiders would have no idea it had spawned until they were in the cave itself. As they are already there, they will attempt PvP regardless of the ice. Therefore the ice has not promoted PvP. While I understand you cave-dwellers want a life entirely on your terms, the fact is the requirement to leave your hole to get fuel is the only way to guarantee risk. Spawning ice in there is a backwards step. -1 to the idea.
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 453	Posted - 2014.11.14 10:15:15 - [101] - Quote Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote: ... Impossible to teach yourself to read, as there is no natural connection between script and sounds; someone needed to show you the connection, so your attempt to establish credibility has failed.. And since you are almost polite with everything you say, I'll respond as politely as I can. Humans have an incredible gift of pattern recognition. So without fully understanding what it meant I was able to tell how that clock on the wall needed to look like when I wanted to watch a cherrypicked part of Sesame Street. That show for children, where they teach you stuff with puppets, letters and numbers. But I also have a condition that is called perfect recall memory and I can remember back to approximately 12 weeks after my birth. So any further attempt on your part to try to sound "clever" will be futile. signature
Niskin League of the Lost 60	Posted - 2014.11.14 16:15:41 - [102] - Quote Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote: Having ice in no way promotes PvP, as the outsiders would have no idea it had spawned until they were in the cave itself. As they are already there, they will attempt PvP regardless of the ice. Therefore the ice has not promoted PvP. While I understand you cave-dwellers want a life entirely on your terms, the fact is the requirement to leave your hole to get fuel is the only way to guarantee risk. Spawning ice in there is a backwards step. -1 to the idea. You don't seem to understand how things work in wormholes. Currently we have to leave to get fuel or ice products to make fuel. These new holes don't change that, there will be no ice in our home holes. We will have to leave our homes to mine ice and we will have to do so in a system with no POS's. That means these systems will be part highway, part resource wonderland, and part PvP wasteland. In addition to that it changes our choices for mining. Up until now you wouldn't catch me mining in anything but a Venture or maybe a Prospect. Now I have to make the call, do I bring in a Mining Barge for this or continue to buy ice/fuel in kspace? If I choose to bring in the Mining Barge then I'm going to be risking a more expensive ship in an area where everybody else will be bearing or shooting bears. The risk level seems fairly high, and it will be. While these new WH's are going to make our home holes a bit safer, they balance out by being more dangerous themselves. And just to be clear, us having to leave for fuel isn't the only way we face risk. I don't know what kind of space you live in, but where I am if I'm outside a POS uncloaked and I haven't clicked "Scan" in the last 20 seconds I'm probably starting to twitch uncontrollably.
Ceawlin Cobon-Han Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 22	Posted - 2014.11.14 20:10:04 - [103] - Quote elitatwo wrote: Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote: ... Impossible to teach yourself to read, as there is no natural connection between script and sounds; someone needed to show you the connection, so your attempt to establish credibility has failed.. And since you are almost polite with everything you say, I'll respond as politely as I can. Humans have an incredible gift of pattern recognition. So without fully understanding what it meant I was able to tell how that clock on the wall needed to look like when I wanted to watch a cherrypicked part of Sesame Street. That show for children, where they teach you stuff with puppets, letters and numbers. But I also have a condition that is called perfect recall memory and I can remember back to approximately 12 weeks after my birth. So any further attempt on your part to try to sound "clever" will be futile. Someone showed you letters and sounds, meaning you were taught to read. Whether it's one-to-one with a parent, or you get it off a screen, you are not teaching yourself; someone is showing you the connections.
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 455	Posted - 2014.11.15 02:17:21 - [104] - Quote Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote: Someone showed you letters and sounds, meaning you were taught to read. Whether it's one-to-one with a parent, or you get it off a screen, you are not teaching yourself; someone is showing you the connections. Stop posting, noob. signature
Catherine Laartii Dominion Fleet Group 388	Posted - 2014.11.15 05:24:39 - [105] - Quote Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote: elitatwo wrote: Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote: ... Impossible to teach yourself to read, as there is no natural connection between script and sounds; someone needed to show you the connection, so your attempt to establish credibility has failed.. And since you are almost polite with everything you say, I'll respond as politely as I can. Humans have an incredible gift of pattern recognition. So without fully understanding what it meant I was able to tell how that clock on the wall needed to look like when I wanted to watch a cherrypicked part of Sesame Street. That show for children, where they teach you stuff with puppets, letters and numbers. But I also have a condition that is called perfect recall memory and I can remember back to approximately 12 weeks after my birth. So any further attempt on your part to try to sound "clever" will be futile. Someone showed you letters and sounds, meaning you were taught to read. Whether it's one-to-one with a parent, or you get it off a screen, you are not teaching yourself; someone is showing you the connections. While I can appreciate dissenting opinions on my forum topic, I do not appreciate what you're doing here. Please stay on topic or refrain from getting in a pissing match, since nobody wins and nothing useful is learned in a personal argument.
Munseventy Kikutech Kleinrock Group 0	Posted - 2014.11.15 07:51:28 - [106] - Quote here a fix to everything, Prospect have a 10k Ore Hold just let them be able to use Ice strip miner.
Ceawlin Cobon-Han Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 22	Posted - 2014.11.15 09:08:58 - [107] - Quote elitatwo wrote: Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote: Someone showed you letters and sounds, meaning you were taught to read. Whether it's one-to-one with a parent, or you get it off a screen, you are not teaching yourself; someone is showing you the connections. Stop posting, noob. The death of credibility. Yours. Anyway, back on topic. It's a bit rich for the cave-dwellers to choose to live in a hole and then bleat about the restrictions that choice imposes on them. Now they want W-space to morph itself, to make easier their choice of habitat. I was led to believe that W-space was meant to be harsh with great rewards. The troglodytes want the great rewards without the harsh, and being forced out of their pits into the sunlight is one of the components of 'harsh'. Unfortunately, this topic will never be resolved. The cave-dwellers will continue to contrive ever more ridiculous reasons for why it's a good idea, regardless of any logic applied to the subject.
Catherine Laartii Dominion Fleet Group 389	Posted - 2014.11.16 04:46:49 - [108] - Quote Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote: elitatwo wrote: Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote: Someone showed you letters and sounds, meaning you were taught to read. Whether it's one-to-one with a parent, or you get it off a screen, you are not teaching yourself; someone is showing you the connections. Stop posting, noob. The death of credibility. Yours. Anyway, back on topic. It's a bit rich for the cave-dwellers to choose to live in a hole and then bleat about the restrictions that choice imposes on them. Now they want W-space to morph itself, to make easier their choice of habitat. I was led to believe that W-space was meant to be harsh with great rewards. The troglodytes want the great rewards without the harsh, and being forced out of their pits into the sunlight is one of the components of 'harsh'. Unfortunately, this topic will never be resolved. The cave-dwellers will continue to contrive ever more ridiculous reasons for why it's a good idea, regardless of any logic applied to the subject. Despite your poor choice of words with the term 'cave dwellers' you do make a very good point. The original mechanics did not intend to cater to permanent living, and logically it would make sense not to chanchange based on emergent behavior, even if it's unexpected. That said, w-space is the only space without ice materials; if we can say that having such things as an absent local, no gates and shifting exits, what's to say that introducing new content in the form of valuable resources makes things easier in any way? It is not only likely, but expected that this will add more potential for combat to happen. If a w-space dweller doesn't have a static to empire space and they DO have access to an ice belt you can bet they'll be mining in it. And you can also bet that it's likely at some point there's someone else in the hole hunting for them.
Ceawlin Cobon-Han Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 23	Posted - 2014.11.16 16:36:34 - [109] - Quote Catherine Laartii wrote: It is not only likely, but expected that this will add more potential for combat to happen. If a w-space dweller doesn't have a static to empire space and they DO have access to an ice belt you can bet they'll be mining in it. And you can also bet that it's likely at some point there's someone else in the hole hunting for them. Now THIS is - finally! - a decent argument for it. While I still believe ice in W-space isn't a good thing, at least someone is thinking with her brain. The counter is that the cave-dwellers will make sure the WH are guarded well while mining the ice and, as I said before, no-one will know the ice field has spawned unless they're already in the hole; it won't increase the rate of incursions into the hole. Roids spawn already in there, so the fact that mining ships are out in the open applies already. Still no evidence that ice in the cave improves the frequency of PvP with the denizens of the hole.
Catherine Laartii Dominion Fleet Group 391	Posted - 2014.11.16 20:41:07 - [110] - Quote Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote: Still no evidence that ice in the cave improves the frequency of PvP with the denizens of the hole. The evidence is that unlike roid mining, ice mining for fuel for starbase would be necessary by default if they wanted to build fuel locally in a system that can build blocks (plasma planets would be a good bet since they can already build robotics from just the plenet materials there). There is greater incentive for mining ice, and in settings like that, the planet disposition for MAKING said blocks is clearly visible, and if there's an ice belt, a pirate and his buddies after find it's occupied can say, "Hey, this place looks like a good area to get some kills; they can build blocks from the planets here and they have a belt up. Who's up for some exhumer ganking?" If you mine it, they will come.
Catherine Laartii Dominion Fleet Group 396	Posted - 2014.11.18 19:55:46 - [111] - Quote Do we have any thoughts form the devs on this for the possibility of ice or ice products being added in some fashion to the current w-space belts, instead of just the upcoming shattered wormholes?
Jenshae Chiroptera 511	Posted - 2014.11.19 03:35:54 - [112] - Quote Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote: Still no evidence that ice in the cave improves the frequency of PvP with the denizens of the hole. It wouldn't be PVP, just a few more served up lame ganks. The ice would take the head ache out of getting and moving it. Not really a problem though, you can make some huge stock piles of fuel blocks and only pick them up when you are linked to particular low population systems. Then you bring in another big stock pile quickly and pop the worm hole. Just keep a small fleet on standby, a bubbler, combat scanner and two different sized ships ready to pop the hole. I still have a typhoon that I used exclusively for popping worm holes. I knew exactly what to fit to take down each hole and I could do it quickly. Anything fast enough to try sneak in gets snared in the bubble or can't cloak. Catherine Laartii wrote: Nullsec shouldn't have to depend on hisec for its goods and neither should w-space. Especially if you want null to be self serving with their own trade hubs. I would love to see destroyable gates being made between worm holes and null sec to worm holes. Say, one per alliance. (Possible chains but then you talk about weak links and reaction / flight times and have no cynos working) Destroyable null sec gates would also be interesting. Re-route and close off your space. Have people making gates into your system, have to get into theirs to blow it up. Ideas & stuff EVE - the game of sand castles, either building them or kicking them down. Status: Bouncing on the diving board.

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