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The "SUVs" of EvE.

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Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.08.22 19:40:00 - [61] Originally by: Catarina Caldone Originally by: Risien Drogonne BAHAHAHAHA You want to make this skill take a year to train? Gee, your bias is showing. Are you a low-sec gatecamper, by chance? No actually. But thank you for the vote of confidence Gee, I hope you'll pardon my dubiousness given that your "solution" favors gatecampers 100% and screws those they want to kill 100%.
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.08.22 19:46:00 - [62] Edited by: Risien Drogonne on 22/08/2006 19:46:42 Originally by: Lillith Blackheart Anyone who thinks instas are "necessary to compete" just likes having a crutch. I have instas, and the only time I ever use them is when hauling stuff around in safe areas, because a badger mkII with 3 local hull mod: cargo expanders is slower than mollasses in january in the arctic north. Beyond that I don't see a point. They're a crutch. I'm happy without them, as I never really use them anyway. If you're smart and use your brain while travelling you'll never have a need for them. Me. Ah, so what you're saying is that you (or anyone else) don't need instas if they're smart... But you need them when you fly your badger. Looks like a contradiction to me.
Vactet	Posted - 2006.08.22 19:52:00 - [63] I like instas..i use them alot. Then again, the insta's i use are mine. I made them. I make them for routes i travel alot and they arent simple gtg. They are off angle trajectory insta's. Ok here. GateB \| \ \| \ \| /PointC \| / GateA I jump into system and warp to PointC which i made. Usually off to the side and above the normal path. Then warp to my insta to the gate. It really screws with people because A)They are designed to come in ABOVE where bubbles are normally placed. B)They come in from an odd angle where most gatecampers arent watching. They are mine, i made them, i know they work. The only instas non made by me that i use are on two specific routes. Both from my home system (Very low sec Lonetrek) to Jita and Ourselet(Spelling?) And those are only from the start of highsec (Nonni) to those places. And thats cause usually when im going to those places im flying my caldari brick hauler. Anyways. If that whole skill thing is implemented and bm's within X distance of any gate are removed. All you are going to see is everyone sitting in a station training that skill before heading out again. Yes, insta's (Bought ones) are a crutch. But they also give people a false-sense of security. "Its an insta..nothing can go...OH GOD A BUBBLE/Webber" Does something need to be done? Yeh. That something however needs to be fair and acceptable to gatecampers and gatecamp runners alike. Alienating a good portion of the player base (Either side) is really bad business practice.
DigitalCommunist Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.22 20:00:00 - [64] Originally by: Risien Drogonne Originally by: Malicious Wraith Urrr... now how exactly do insta's cause lag? Not one of these people has ever proven that they do. It's nothing but their opinion, a convenient excuse to whine about bookmarks instead of providing a solution (assuming we need one) that doesn't make the game easy-mode for the gatecampers. MY solution: Remove instas within 15k of gates, and make all sentry guns hit for 5000dmg a pop and have 450km range, even the ones in low-sec. Both sides win and lose. If you're looking for proof, you shouldn't be asking the players. The players are not the ones who came up with the idea "instas = lag". The developers did. I dunno about you, but I trust them enough to avoid questioning such a simple statement. Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.08.22 20:04:00 - [65] Originally by: DigitalCommunist If you're looking for proof, you shouldn't be asking the players. The players are not the ones who came up with the idea "instas = lag". The developers did. I dunno about you, but I trust them enough to avoid questioning such a simple statement. Got a source I can see? Cause what I remember is a dev stating that they didn't know so they couldn't make a statement at all. To me, that puts your statement in the same realm as the people who say they saw that local was being removed in Kali. So again, got proof?
Catarina Caldone	Posted - 2006.08.22 20:08:00 - [66] Originally by: Risien Drogonne Originally by: Catarina Caldone Originally by: Risien Drogonne BAHAHAHAHA You want to make this skill take a year to train? Gee, your bias is showing. Are you a low-sec gatecamper, by chance? No actually. But thank you for the vote of confidence Gee, I hope you'll pardon my dubiousness given that your "solution" favors gatecampers 100% and screws those they want to kill 100%. Read more into it. Like the part where I suggested it be a "dynamic" skillset. Train an indy to 5, and the suggested skill becomes Rank 1. Don't train an indy, and it takes you longer. Perhaps vary the skill rank by previously trained ship type? /shrug I didn't intend to imply that it should be implemented "as is". Just a starting point to build upon with suggestion. Either way you look at it, the "insta problem" will only get worse from this point if nothing is even suggested to work off of, as more and more players amplify the problem. A solution shouldn't weigh heavily for either viewpoint. Nor should it eliminate a facet of gameplay. PVP or otherwise.
Entrophos Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.22 20:25:00 - [67] Originally by: Evelyn Lavi Edited by: Evelyn Lavi on 22/08/2006 04:44:47 Edited by: Evelyn Lavi on 22/08/2006 04:44:18 We have a peculiar thing in EVE that is not altogether different from the modern world's "sport utility vehicle." Let me explain the comparitive points. 1. It is a luxury. It makes travel more comfortable, and to some extent, "safer" for the ones using it. 2. It is "necessary" to compete. Ever see what happens when a sedan is rear-ended by a Hummer? Well, you're liable to getting killed right-fast in lowsec without these items in EVE, as well. 3. It is a tremendous resource hog. Instead of gasoline, it takes up tremendous amounts of database space, with more being made every day, causing more crashes and more lag. 4. The users, and especially the abusers, are in denial about the negative impact of the glut of it. "There's no conclusive proof they screw up the environment/database!" I'm talking about instas. Today's madness is a testament to what several million (and growing) little bits of clutter in active memory can do with nothing done to stop them. What would gate campers/pirates do without safe spots? I think you're forgetting that those will get blasted too. I guess you didn't really think this through, huh? As for industrials and stuff, having to warp in at 15km is such a huge and ridiculous time sink that I would sell out and quit if I couldn't use instas to make runs hauling ore to my manufacturer less painful. The only real solution is to give an announcement and fair warning and then: 1) Delete all bookmarks from all accounts 2) Introduce a new skill under Navigation called "Warp Jump Precision" and have it a rank 1 skill that reduces the distance from a reference point by 2.8km/rank (landing you 1km out from your target fully trained) 3) Allow bookmark creation again for the creation of safe spots, but place a limit on the maximum number of bookmarks a character can have 4) Allow warp bubbles in 0.1-0.4 but beef up sentry guns to compensate or allow them to affect war targets only Most smart people use instas now anyways so gate snipers will have to deal with it. Gate sniping is a lame tactic anyways.
Tohopka	Posted - 2006.08.22 21:44:00 - [68] Edited by: Tohopka on 22/08/2006 21:48:40 Would someone be kind enough to make a link to Oveur stating that 15% of the server's database load is bookmarks on people's "people and places" tag? I read that myself some time back. And do hurry, I'm getting sick of these insta-junkies plugging their ears and screeching "la la la" while the server goes to hell because of their selfish little metagame exploit. On a side note... A game is broken when there is some little thing you MUST do to compete, or else "u suxor." When there are no other IN GAME alternatives, and I dont mean that "have a scout alt noob lol" nonsense. 15km warp-ins were put in for a reason, and it's a sad thing that some bullcrap metagaming workaround has been found for them... and MADE NECESSARY by the T2 ammo gate camping gankers. My proposal (as an emergency band-aid): cut out the bookmarks and give the server a chance to breathe. BUT, also double the range of lowsec sentry guns. Carebears and gankers alike may boohoo about it, but this insta madness has to stop.
Evelyn Lavi	Posted - 2006.08.22 21:58:00 - [69] Here's the proof that the junkies asked for! http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=248 Let me quote: - 100's of instas on the majority of characters are causing unnecessary server load in many scenarios (logon, switching systems, on use etc.)
Tohopka	Posted - 2006.08.23 03:44:00 - [70] So sad that a factual statement about instas is considered flamebait to a fair portion of the forum community. They cause lag. Yes, they do. The link was posted to Oveur's own blog confirming this. Maybe the bringer of the link was a little cheesed off white typing it out, but dealing with a bunch of screeching children who want to hold on to their "insta" blankie might make people cranky, dunno.

Jalia Kovac Placid Reborn Placid Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.23 05:01:00 - [71] Originally by: Evelyn Lavi Yes, but when it comes to basic "item" placement and XYZ coordinates stored in active database, a secure can takes up as much room in database as a bookmark. How many people have THOUSANDS of secure cans to their name, with another set copied every once in a while for friends and alts? Sorry, I wasn't being clear and I wasn't meaning to prioritise. I'm just sick of the cannister spam all over the universe. ► ► Placid Reborn Headquarters ◄ ◄
Entreri Finwe Caldari Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.23 06:35:00 - [72] I'd say they should make ships come out of warp at full speed and they drop you out of warp at 7,5 km from the gate and it should be impossible to end up nearer... 5 km isn't very far especially if you already are at full speed when you start... ---
Bazoom Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.23 07:04:00 - [73] Add a "warp-in-accuracy-gizmo" that is consumed, or has a certain amount of charges that gives you an insta warp-in. That way you could decide when you needed to feel safe, and use the device. Price/availability etc would of course need to be tuned :)


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