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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Khan Wrenth
Hedion University Amarr Empire
75
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Posted - 2014.10.31 13:12:24 -
[31] - Quote
Okay, so I saw a wall of text, and a lot of talk about random snippits of things I might understand in a vacuum but not when connected to the larger conversation. So, for those of us who don't already know what "brain in a box" is, what the hell is it? Do I have to worry about it being the seventh deadly sin and having it delivered to me on a desert road?
HTFU.-á Adapt or die.-á Beware the falcon punch.
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Peter Drakon
Lith 'n' Brannor Enterprises Northern Associates.
12
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Posted - 2014.10.31 13:15:40 -
[32] - Quote
CCP Prism X wrote:Story so far ...
As a developer my self who has seen a few things... I feel for you. :-)
Also: making current classes into stubs and interfaces...? Those can make re-factoring easier... sometimes... or at least more separated... hardest thing in my experience is where to draw the line, say no more!, and stop... before that ever growing poo-ball crushes you...
Keep it up, you WILL solve it eventually! :-)
Peter |
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
796
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Posted - 2014.10.31 13:26:09 -
[33] - Quote
Khan Wrenth wrote:Okay, so I saw a wall of text, and a lot of talk about random snippits of things I might understand in a vacuum but not when connected to the larger conversation. So, for those of us who don't already know what "brain in a box" is, what the hell is it? Do I have to worry about it being the seventh deadly sin and having it delivered to me on a desert road? Brain in a box is the solution to jump lag and the update to the game action code (dogma) needs to be completed before it and on grid boosting can be implemented.
If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe.
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CCP Prism X
C C P C C P Alliance
1553
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Posted - 2014.10.31 13:32:44 -
[34] - Quote
Khan Wrenth wrote:Okay, so I saw a wall of text, and a lot of talk about random snippits of things I might understand in a vacuum but not when connected to the larger conversation. So, for those of us who don't already know what "brain in a box" is, what the hell is it? Do I have to worry about it being the seventh deadly sin and having it delivered to me on a desert road?
Brain in a Box is an EVE Framework project, not a feature project. So you'll probalby not have to worry about us killing EVE.
In short: Brain in a box is a technical project to offload calculations from a given systems simulation cpu, and only having the end results of said calculations used by the simulation cpu. This saves a lot of work, should alleviate TiDi on Fleet Warps (as setting up a ship now takes a tenth of the time it used to take) as well as the load in Jita-like systems.
Team Gridlock FanFest 2014 Presentation
CCP Prism X
Programmer on Team Gridlock & Expert Ranter
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6325
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Posted - 2014.10.31 13:54:23 -
[35] - Quote
programming, not even once.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2939
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Posted - 2014.10.31 15:59:03 -
[36] - Quote
don't forget unit tests, or i don't let you play with my skills!
eve style bounties (done)
dust boarding parties
imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW
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Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1557
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Posted - 2014.10.31 20:08:03 -
[37] - Quote
Spaghetti code online
Skills in a hangar. That sounds... Weird. I guess it was one of those "guys guys guys, I have an awesome idea how we can avoid some work" ideas
Build your empire !
Start today ! Rent Space in Perrigen Falls and Feythabolis
Contact me for details :)
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Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
198
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Posted - 2014.10.31 21:14:59 -
[38] - Quote
Sol Project wrote:
And I want some of the drugs CCP Prism X uses, because that was some confusing read.
This is your brain on code... |
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment The Camel Empire
1074
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Posted - 2014.10.31 21:38:49 -
[39] - Quote
CCP Prism X wrote:When you inject skillbooks into your head, that's exactly what you're doing: Changing the location of the skillbook item to be your character. Your skills are just an inventory you keep in your character as opposed to your ship and that means they travel around with your characters inventory. This makes all skill handling awkward, especially so when they are being precomputed by your character node which has to get information from the location node and we are trying to offload work from location nodes. I'm not going to go too deeply into this because I need to stop writing this post at some point.
Haha, that explains that one exploit where a dude injected random stuff into his brain. Like POS forcefields and thus made them disappear in space. He killed some baby supers that way.
German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com
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Andy Koraka
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
45
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Posted - 2014.10.31 21:58:10 -
[40] - Quote
So serious question. We're all aware of how whenever 100+ pilots undock or jump through a gate, or otherwise undergo a session change the node gets bogged down and enters deep tidi (hence the need for BIAB in the first place). Will you guys be adjusting the node mapping to compensate?
A while back CCP changed the node mapping so that local space is generally on the same node, thus a fight in Delve wouldn't cause ti-di in Tenal or elsewhere spread across EvE.
Pre-Pheobe it wasn't really a big deal since most fleet travel was direct to the destination via jump drive/titan bridge, but Post-Pheobe fleets are expected to rely on taking gates the current mapping scheme is problematic.
Since large parts of a region currently share the same node, whenever multiple fleets start take gates somewhere the lag compounds. Even a pair of modest 150 man fleets traveling towards a Sov timer will really be 300 people repeatedly session changing on the same node (enough to sustain low 10-30% tidi). With medium sized fights, even one full fleet on each side will still be 500 people taking gates on the same node, which the servers flat out can't handle, which is a large part of why the Ghost Site event last fall received so much negative feedback.
Will you guys be going back to the old "scattered" node mapping so that when 2 fleets travel in the same region they won't be on the same node, thus triggering heavy lag? It's unfortunate that one guy ratting halfway across EvE will be inconvienenced by Ti-Di for a minute or two, but it's better than making 500 sit in max tidi for a lot longer. |
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Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
735
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Posted - 2014.10.31 22:15:18 -
[41] - Quote
I'll see if I understand what it is that BiAB is suppose to do or I imagine that it will do.
I'll do it with a picture. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1558
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Posted - 2014.10.31 22:36:11 -
[42] - Quote
This comment came up on reddit. And I can not not link it:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2kx2p3/ccp_prismx_on_the_brain_in_box_project_in_my_biab/clpjabp
Build your empire !
Start today ! Rent Space in Perrigen Falls and Feythabolis
Contact me for details :)
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MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
2012
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Posted - 2014.10.31 23:23:23 -
[43] - Quote
CCP Prism X wrote:
In conclusion: Stuff is happening. It's happening slowly and painfully but it's happening. I have my personal dreams as to when this could reasonably be expected to be finished, but I intend to keep them to myselves. It's important to have dreams and aspirations and you can't have mine.
You have to dream a dream to have a dream come true.
Fight the good fight
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
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Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1388
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Posted - 2014.10.31 23:47:34 -
[44] - Quote
CCP Prism X wrote:This is because as it stands your skills are items. When you inject skillbooks into your head, that's exactly what you're doing: Changing the location of the skillbook item to be your character. Mmmh... so the stories about once being able to use dark snake charming arts to inject items other than skillbooks into your head were probably true.
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2942
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Posted - 2014.11.01 00:44:16 -
[45] - Quote
Andy Koraka wrote:So serious question. We're all aware of how whenever 100+ pilots undock or jump through a gate, or otherwise undergo a session change the node gets bogged down and enters deep tidi (hence the need for BIAB in the first place). Will you guys be adjusting the node mapping to compensate?
A while back CCP changed the node mapping so that local space is generally on the same node, thus a fight in Delve wouldn't cause ti-di in Tenal or elsewhere spread across EvE. .
you assume that the skills are not recomputed when you jump between systems on the same node... (which is very reasonable). But it isn't the case. It is actually faster when two connected systems are on two different nodes. Since this literally splits the workload of a jump to two distinct servers. Its the only parallelism they have. There was a quite long devblog about system mapping around 6month ago or so. I was a bit sad as i read that :(
eve style bounties (done)
dust boarding parties
imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW
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Sales Alt negrodamus
SalesAltCorp
7
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Posted - 2014.11.01 01:31:04 -
[46] - Quote
PrismX, very nice work. I do similar work so I understand and appreciate the lunacy :D
Now at the risk of invoking the wrath of the parallelization gods, I gots a question that is probably ideally suited to you:
Given how the BIAB stuff is going to take a load of computation off a given node and put it elsewhere, would it be possible / technically feasible to setup an environment where a given solar system is effectively hosted on multiple nodes?
Even better, can we get dynamic node remapping?
You talking about a C rewrite makes me hopeful. |
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CCP Habakuk
C C P C C P Alliance
1067
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Posted - 2014.11.01 01:40:33 -
[47] - Quote
Andy Koraka wrote:So serious question. We're all aware of how whenever 100+ pilots undock or jump through a gate, or otherwise undergo a session change the node gets bogged down and enters deep tidi (hence the need for BIAB in the first place). Will you guys be adjusting the node mapping to compensate?
A while back CCP changed the node mapping so that local space is generally on the same node, thus a fight in Delve wouldn't cause ti-di in Tenal or elsewhere spread across EvE.
Pre-Pheobe it wasn't really a big deal since most fleet travel was direct to the destination via jump drive/titan bridge, but Post-Pheobe fleets are expected to rely on taking gates the current mapping scheme is problematic. ...
I don't think that we will need to do (significant) changes to node mapping due to BIAB - but the load in many systems should be lower (we could increase the number of systems per node - but I don't think that we will do this). With BIAB it might be better to jump between systems on the same node compared to systems on different nodes - but it is a bit too early to tell as I don't have any numbers yet for this. Several years in the past we thought that it would be beneficial for server load to have neighboring systems on the same node - but mass tests (and reports from TQ) proofed this to be wrong.
For the jump changes with Phoebe: I can imagine, that we might see a few more small lag spikes for moving capitals, but time will tell how capitals are moving exactly after these changes. I don't think that it will be necessary to change the node mapping for this - but we will for sure monitor how the server is doing and take action if really necessary.
CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Gridlock
Bug reporting | Mass Testing
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Jessica Danikov
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
419
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Posted - 2014.11.01 01:46:20 -
[48] - Quote
If you took a step back, cleared the board and did an EVE 2.0, how would you do things differently? |
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CCP Habakuk
C C P C C P Alliance
1068
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Posted - 2014.11.01 01:57:57 -
[49] - Quote
Sales Alt negrodamus wrote:PrismX, very nice work. I do similar work so I understand and appreciate the lunacy :D
Now at the risk of invoking the wrath of the parallelization gods, I gots a question that is probably ideally suited to you:
Given how the BIAB stuff is going to take a load of computation off a given node and put it elsewhere, would it be possible / technically feasible to setup an environment where a given solar system is effectively hosted on multiple nodes?
Even better, can we get dynamic node remapping?
You talking about a C rewrite makes me hopeful.
I'm trying to answer, as I am already active here in the forums:
As far as I can tell as non-programmer BIAB will not make it easier to host a given solar system on multiple nodes. We are trying to move as much load as possible from the system nodes to other nodes to reduce the need for splitting systems themselves (which would be a massive undertaking).
Dynamic node remapping: I would love it, but there is still a long way to go. BIAB might even help a tiny bit with this, but there is still a LOT to be done (and many other things are more important).
CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Gridlock
Bug reporting | Mass Testing
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Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
74
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Posted - 2014.11.01 03:25:06 -
[50] - Quote
CCP Habakuk wrote:... a given solar system ... No.
I don't know why it's wrong in-game, but maybe someone simply didn't know better and through the fact that the public gets this wrong easily, nobody cared about even noticing.
There is only one solar system in the whole universe.
There is no solar system in the EVE universe.
Sol is the name of our star. Sun is the more commonly used name for this star.
They're star systems, not solar systems.
Can you fix this? |
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
5512
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Posted - 2014.11.01 07:38:21 -
[51] - Quote
Awesome stuff, CCPs Prizm X, Habakuk & Hedgehog!
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1847
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Posted - 2014.11.01 08:13:19 -
[52] - Quote
Sol Project wrote:CCP Habakuk wrote:... a given solar system ... No. I don't know why it's wrong in-game, but maybe someone simply didn't know better and through the fact that the public gets this wrong easily, nobody cared about even noticing. There is only one solar system in the whole universe. There is no solar system in the EVE universe. Sol is the name of our star. Sun is the more commonly used name for this star. They're star systems, not solar systems. Can you fix this?
And how do you know that all starts are not known as sun as the generic name of the astronomical entity in the eve universe? Remember... they have only LEGENDS about Terra.
also.. no one cares...
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
For the rest hire PoH |
Recruitment
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Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2878
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Posted - 2014.11.01 11:18:18 -
[53] - Quote
Go devs!
Thanks for posting war stories, hopefully neither python nor other black magic can stop you from finishing and releasing BiaB in some near-ish future (measured rather in years then decades).
But that fragment about skills being items in out head inventory is kind of WTF case. Wouldn't it be just easier and simpler to have it coded as most primitive list/table where each skill is at specified index and number stored at that index is current trained level of that skill? After all everybody can eventually train every skill so WTF complicate things by making this whole inventory in my head voodoo. Actually that would make sense if I could eject trained skill from my head and make an implant out of it or sth that could be traded and used by somebody else but that's not possible so really, WhoTF thought it was a good idea? Hilmar? :)
Invalid signature format
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Elsa Nietchize
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
46
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Posted - 2014.11.01 12:33:35 -
[54] - Quote
How I read the OP
Quote:We are working on a hard problem to make things better. We've developing iteratively as we want to explore all possible solutions to find the best one. Progress is slow but is steady. The barrier to entry on this problem is large and personal changes lead to delays as new members must ramp up on extensive an knowledge base. Further, as the problem is a core problem, it has many inter-connected parts which lead to us not being able to solve this problem in singularity. Rather, we must solve this problem and any new problems that arise with the interconnected components. We have hypotheses out the outcomes of our progress but are committed to thorough testing to ensure our positive outcomes are realized.
You're doing God's work. Keep fighting the good fight. |
bubble trout
Rolled Out Black Legion.
229
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Posted - 2014.11.01 12:55:14 -
[55] - Quote
k |
Abramul
StarFleet Enterprises Intrepid Crossing
25
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Posted - 2014.11.01 14:10:29 -
[56] - Quote
Sol Project wrote:CCP Habakuk wrote:... a given solar system ... No. I don't know why it's wrong in-game, but maybe someone simply didn't know better and through the fact that the public gets this wrong easily, nobody cared about even noticing. There is only one solar system in the whole universe. There is no solar system in the EVE universe. Sol is the name of our star. Sun is the more commonly used name for this star. They're star systems, not solar systems. Can you fix this? I never noticed this. Now it's probably going to bother me every time I check which system I'm in... |
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
75
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Posted - 2014.11.01 14:29:26 -
[57] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:And how do you know that all starts are not known as sun as the generic name of the astronomical entity in the eve universe? Remember... they have only LEGENDS about Terra.
also.. no one cares... Well, then stay true to your words and stay silent. As you wish to display that you do not care, I will happily dismiss your nonsense.
You're welcome. |
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
75
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Posted - 2014.11.01 14:32:32 -
[58] - Quote
Abramul wrote:I never noticed this. Now it's probably going to bother me every time I check which system I'm in... Good. It's sad that they actually make the issue worse, supporting the cluelessness of the masses.
Did you know that most people don't feel their tongues all the time? It's the same with the nose. Although they're both there, ALL THE TIME, people often aren't aware of them until they check. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3176
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Posted - 2014.11.01 20:08:46 -
[59] - Quote
Sol Project wrote:CCP Habakuk wrote:... a given solar system ... No. I don't know why it's wrong in-game, but maybe someone simply didn't know better and through the fact that the public gets this wrong easily, nobody cared about even noticing. There is only one solar system in the whole universe. There is no solar system in the EVE universe. Sol is the name of our star. Sun is the more commonly used name for this star. They're star systems, not solar systems. Can you fix this?
Actually a star system is a system composed by several stars orbiting each other. The planets and other bodies (comets, asteroids, planetesimals, et cetera) orbiting a star (be it a single star or a part of a star system) are known as a planetary system.
As EVE does not have lone stars nor star systems, I guess we could just agree to talk about "systems".
(To make things more complicated, Sol System is the name of the data synchronization core behind Tranquility cluster, and whose 1 hertz ticks are so intrinsecal to EVE)
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
80
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Posted - 2014.11.01 20:17:04 -
[60] - Quote
I accept "systems" as well, because it's still *right*.
But the system of Sol is ... not actually in New Eden. I would accept it if they renamed every star to Sol, too. Then we have 7000+ solar systems in honour of the real one. Or just the one of Hek. That'd be neat. Has only three letters too!
Oh and yeah, I know Sol. My main machine at home has the same name. ;) |
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