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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Pakled Jones
Hell's Portals
0
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Posted - 2014.10.30 13:33:17 -
[1] - Quote
It's been a long time since we've heard anything new about Brain-in-a-box. I saw it briefly mention in the CSM9 minutes, but that's it.
So my question is: How far along is it? Any particularly nasty snags that have delayed it, etc? Enquiring minds want to know.
KTHnxBye |
Prince Kobol
2338
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Posted - 2014.10.30 13:34:15 -
[2] - Quote
Pakled Jones wrote:It's been a long time since we've heard anything new about Brain-in-a-box. I saw it briefly mention in the CSM9 minutes, but that's it.
So my question is: How far along is it? Any particularly nasty snags that have delayed it, etc? Enquiring minds want to know.
KTHnxBye
I would guess that CCP Veritas leaving wouldn't off help. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2878
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Posted - 2014.10.30 14:49:11 -
[3] - Quote
I guess it one of those mythical things like making billions with AFK mining.
Invalid signature format
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Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
47
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Posted - 2014.10.30 14:59:04 -
[4] - Quote
Shamefull. |
Hicksimus
Plan-It Xpress Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
391
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Posted - 2014.10.30 15:00:13 -
[5] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:I guess it one of those mythical things like making billions with AFK mining.
All it takes is one officer spawn and enough Skiffs to pop it.
Do you have it?
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DaReaper
Net 7
1177
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Posted - 2014.10.30 16:36:41 -
[6] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Pakled Jones wrote:It's been a long time since we've heard anything new about Brain-in-a-box. I saw it briefly mention in the CSM9 minutes, but that's it.
So my question is: How far along is it? Any particularly nasty snags that have delayed it, etc? Enquiring minds want to know.
KTHnxBye I would guess that CCP Veritas leaving wouldn't off help.
In theory this should not of done anything. Unless he was the only one working on that system, which would nto of made a whole lot of sense. As I am sure he had help or someone was asking about the progress. And depending on how CCP runs coding, someone else could of taken over and or worked on it along side him. But i'm not a programmer, so prolly talking out my butt.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Cynadore
3 R Corporation
7
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Posted - 2014.10.30 18:31:01 -
[7] - Quote
Pakled Jones wrote:It's been a long time since we've heard anything new about Brain-in-a-box. I saw it briefly mention in the CSM9 minutes, but that's it.
So my question is: How far along is it? Any particularly nasty snags that have delayed it, etc? Enquiring minds want to know.
KTHnxBye
ISIS is reportedly working on this. Wait, what? Too soon? |
Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
472
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Posted - 2014.10.30 18:45:03 -
[8] - Quote
Cynadore wrote:Pakled Jones wrote:It's been a long time since we've heard anything new about Brain-in-a-box. I saw it briefly mention in the CSM9 minutes, but that's it.
So my question is: How far along is it? Any particularly nasty snags that have delayed it, etc? Enquiring minds want to know.
KTHnxBye ISIS is reportedly working on this. Wait, what? Too soon?
It hasn't been called that in months, check your facts or stop being an american. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
4102
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Posted - 2014.10.30 18:47:33 -
[9] - Quote
The biggest snag that BiaB hit was the requirement for Dogma to be rewritten. (short version. Dogma doesn't understand numbers. It understand attributes. So injecting precalculated things doesn't really work)
There's a talk about it from Fanfest 2014, the team Gridlock one.
While yes, Veritas leaving will have affected it, but he was only part of Team Gridlock (some very smart programmers). They'll have to get a new person up to speed, which will leave them a little slower than just being one person down, but it's still on going.
Woo! CSM 9!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
3594
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Posted - 2014.10.30 23:25:03 -
[10] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:The biggest snag that BiaB hit was the requirement for Dogma to be rewritten. (short version. Dogma doesn't understand numbers. It understand attributes. So injecting precalculated things doesn't really work)
There's a talk about it from Fanfest 2014, the team Gridlock one.
While yes, Veritas leaving will have affected it, but he was only part of Team Gridlock (some very smart programmers). They'll have to get a new person up to speed, which will leave them a little slower than just being one person down, but it's still on going.
CCP Veritas was not even on Team Gridlock before he left. He was the technical director for EVE Online. So him leaving, while taking lots of knowledge, didn't change who was working on BiaB/Dogma Rewrite. :)
I know people are still working on it, will try and poke one of them to post an update. :D
CCP FoxFour // Game Designer // @CCP_FoxFour
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
4106
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Posted - 2014.10.30 23:39:25 -
[11] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:The biggest snag that BiaB hit was the requirement for Dogma to be rewritten. (short version. Dogma doesn't understand numbers. It understand attributes. So injecting precalculated things doesn't really work)
There's a talk about it from Fanfest 2014, the team Gridlock one.
While yes, Veritas leaving will have affected it, but he was only part of Team Gridlock (some very smart programmers). They'll have to get a new person up to speed, which will leave them a little slower than just being one person down, but it's still on going. CCP Veritas was not even on Team Gridlock before he left. He was the technical director for EVE Online. So him leaving, while taking lots of knowledge, didn't change who was working on BiaB/Dogma Rewrite. :) I know people are still working on it, will try and poke one of them to post an update. :D
Pay no attention to me making mistakes about who does what. Or the man behind the curtain
Woo! CSM 9!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Serene Repose
1581
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Posted - 2014.10.31 03:12:15 -
[12] - Quote
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. (He's my uncle who wandered away from the institution grounds.)
I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á
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Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
1133
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Posted - 2014.10.31 05:34:18 -
[13] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. (He's my uncle who wandered away from the institution grounds.) Greyscale is your Uncle?
CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
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Cristl
Perkone Caldari State
178
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Posted - 2014.10.31 07:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
Irony blaster cannon II delivers a wrecking shot! |
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
54
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Posted - 2014.10.31 08:41:17 -
[15] - Quote
Cristl wrote:Irony blaster cannon II delivers a wrecking shot! Let me show you my large blaster cannon...... |
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CCP Prism X
C C P C C P Alliance
1543
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Posted - 2014.10.31 11:15:11 -
[16] - Quote
Disclaimer: This post was written by CCP Prism X, not the entirity of Team Gridlock. CCP Prism X is a well known forum warrior and all interactions with him should be well grounded in that observation.
Summary OMG I HAVEN'T POSTED ON THESE FORUMS IN LIKE YEARS THIS WILL BE SUCH A WALL OF TEXT WOOOOOO!
State of BIAB In my BIAB sandbox it is functionalGäó....ish. To the point that we know this is possible and beneficial. There is however a lot of work to be done before we can even start thinking about how we can fit this into our deployment schedule.
That being said, it's only the brain in the box that is functionalGäó...ish. A whole lot of other core functionality is broken there because the system we're touching has far reaching and slimy appendages that have latched onto every brittle part of our codebase. For example you can't train skills anymore and I'm fairly certain you guys want to coninute training skills. This is also happening in a sandbox of a sandbox of our mainline, so there's a lot of work to be done before shipping.
Story so far As Mr. Ronuken briefly mentioned, the Brain in the Box work couldn't be started before our attribute system (henceforth known as Dogma) was rewritten a bit. Dogma could only function on the lines of item attributes affecting item attributes. This doesn't make much sense to laymen but in effect Dogma could not handle multiplying your ships base structure HP by 125%; it could only handle the request of multiplying your ships structure by base structure HP by your skills base structureHP multiplier times your totalskillPoints in the skill run through the skillPoints to skillLevel function. These calculations of course came out to StructureHP*(1.0+5*0.05) = StructureHP*1.25 but they still had to be made because 1.25 is not an attribute associated with an item, it's just a literal. Dogma didn't deal with literals.
So before BIAB was ever viable, the honourable CCP Veritas had to start work on rewriting dogma attributes. That created the first Sandbox of the project, and was the ongoing project when I joined Team Gridlock early in 2014 along with CCP Hedgehog and CCP Merovignian. Since then we've lost Veritas and Merovignian, but we have no intentions of replacing Merovignian anytime soon as the team does not feel the pressing need to do so. So that's good news, we're not lagging behind due to personell problems. We're lagging behind because we're taking much longer than anticipated to familiarize ourselves with the code.
After the REWRITE sandbox had been stabilized, we noticed that we had insane memory pressures. This was expected because we turned attributes into proper classes with all the python internal overhead that entails. We're talking extremely unacceptable levels of memory bloat and after a cursory look at the memory profile of the new code, Merovignian decided to take the new attribute classes to C++ (generally handles memory better than Python). That created a new project sandbox off the REWRITE sandbox but that part of the project has been put on hold again after Merovignian left us.
As the C REWRITE was put on hold, CCP Hedgehog has had to do extensive research on the first level rewrite branch to harden the python code to acceptable levels of memory usage. Hedgehog isn't in right now so I don't want to speak on his behalf, but as I understand it good strides have been made but there's still more to be done before we could release this attribute rewrite.
As the C-Rewrite involved base attribute classes, and BiaB involved skills being precalculated into their end-effect literals and applied as such to items, there was an opportunity to start coding for BiaB in parallell to the C REWRITE without much code overlap. This is why I have yet another sandbox of the original sandbox wherein which skills precalculated into a "brain" and passed around nodes with the character for a quick re-loading of his ship item in new locations. This is however somewhat problematic now that we're no longer doing the C REWRITE and hedgehog is doing massive memory surgery changes to the base REWRITE sandbox I keep integrating from. In retrospect we could have made life much easier for us, but you live and you learn. If you ever find yourself in a similar project, make damn sure that projects are finishined and stabilized before branching projects off them.
To complicate matters even further it became somewhat apparent that we'd need to rewrite how we handle skills for the BIAB project to reach its full potential. This is because as it stands your skills are items. When you inject skillbooks into your head, that's exactly what you're doing: Changing the location of the skillbook item to be your character. Your skills are just an inventory you keep in your character as opposed to your ship and that means they travel around with your characters inventory. This makes all skill handling awkward, especially so when they are being precomputed by your character node which has to get information from the location node and we are trying to offload work from location nodes. I'm not going to go too deeply into this because I need to stop writing this post at some point.
So now I'm doing a SKILL REWRITE as I harden the BIAB REWRITE on the side and Hedgehog hardens the original REWRITE. The skill rewrite is terrible because we've always addressed skills based on their itemID and now we have to do it on a composite (charID, skillTypeID) basis. This doesn't sound terribly complicated, and it isn't in and of itself, but all integrations into these sandboxes, from the MAINLINE where our feature developers are having a coding frenzy, make me cry a bit of blood. For example I just remembered that I forgot to do my Monday integration this week and now I want a hug.
In conclusion: Stuff is happening. It's happening slowly and painfully but it's happening. I have my personal dreams as to when this could reasonably be expected to be finished, but I intend to keep them to myselves. It's important to have dreams and aspirations and you can't have mine.
CCP Prism X
Programmer on Team Gridlock & Expert Ranter
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Pakled Jones
Hell's Portals
0
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Posted - 2014.10.31 11:46:11 -
[17] - Quote
Wow. It sounds like this is one of those projects that grew in scope the more you dive into it. I work as a software developer myself, and I winced at a couple points.
Keep up the good fight! |
Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
590
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Posted - 2014.10.31 11:54:11 -
[18] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:
...wouldn't off help.
...this should not of done anything...
Have. HAVE!
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4363
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Posted - 2014.10.31 11:54:16 -
[19] - Quote
Awww, so no more moving from python to a real programming language?
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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CCP Prism X
C C P C C P Alliance
1546
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Posted - 2014.10.31 11:59:07 -
[20] - Quote
It's our hope that moving things to C++ is not strictly necessary for this project. That doesn't mean it wont be it's own project. We'd just really really really want to release this in bits, harden them, and then do something more crazy. Releasing seven crazy-projects onto TQ at the same time is.. crazy.
CCP Prism X
Programmer on Team Gridlock & Expert Ranter
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Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
815
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Posted - 2014.10.31 12:05:30 -
[21] - Quote
That's a spicy meatball.
Not today spaghetti.
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Makari Aeron
The Shadow's Of Eve TSOE Consortium
131
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Posted - 2014.10.31 12:09:23 -
[22] - Quote
CCP Prism X wrote:It's our hope that moving things to C++ is not strictly necessary for this project. That doesn't mean it wont be it's own project. We'd just really really really want to release this in bits, harden them, and then do something more crazy. Releasing seven crazy-projects onto TQ at the same time is.. crazy. You devs are just a big box of crazy, amirite?
CCP RedDawn: Ugly people are just playing life on HARD mode. Personally, I'm playing on an INFERNO difficulty.
CCP Goliath: I often believe that the best way to get something done is to shout at the person trying to help you. http://goo.gl/PKGDP
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Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
59
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Posted - 2014.10.31 12:11:49 -
[23] - Quote
It seems like Brain in a Box wont' be Back in a Bit.
And I want some of the drugs CCP Prism X uses, because that was some confusing read. |
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
59
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Posted - 2014.10.31 12:14:42 -
[24] - Quote
*hugs CCP Prism X as requested* |
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CCP Habakuk
C C P C C P Alliance
1062
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Posted - 2014.10.31 12:18:27 -
[25] - Quote
Progress is slow, but there is progress. From my testing in the last hour: Good: Jumping is working again in the BrainInABox sandbox, even if you have no implants fitted (somehow it worked fine before with implants fitted). Bad: The CPU of a ship is not modified correctly by skills on the client after boarding a ship in space (but it is modified on the server).
CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Gridlock
Bug reporting | Mass Testing
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CCP Prism X
C C P C C P Alliance
1548
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Posted - 2014.10.31 12:21:28 -
[26] - Quote
Makari Aeron wrote:CCP Prism X wrote:It's our hope that moving things to C++ is not strictly necessary for this project. That doesn't mean it wont be it's own project. We'd just really really really want to release this in bits, harden them, and then do something more crazy. Releasing seven crazy-projects onto TQ at the same time is.. crazy. You devs are just a big box of crazy, amirite?
I'm just a programmer. I think the real insanity lies within CCP Habakuk who has been with Gridlock since it's original inception, and actually has to deal with the quality assurance side of our work. I can promise you that when you're polishing poop-code, you're going to end up with something of poop-ish quality.
CCP Prism X
Programmer on Team Gridlock & Expert Ranter
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Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
815
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Posted - 2014.10.31 12:21:57 -
[27] - Quote
CCP Habakuk wrote:Progress is slow, but there is progress. From my testing in the last hour: Good: Jumping is working again in the BrainInABox sandbox, even if you have no implants fitted (somehow it worked fine before with implants fitted). Bad: The CPU of a ship is not modified correctly by skills on the client after boarding a ship in space (but it is modified on the server).
Test server overlord Habakuk.
Good to see you posting on GD.
Not today spaghetti.
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CCP Habakuk
C C P C C P Alliance
1062
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Posted - 2014.10.31 12:24:11 -
[28] - Quote
CCP Prism X wrote:Makari Aeron wrote:CCP Prism X wrote:It's our hope that moving things to C++ is not strictly necessary for this project. That doesn't mean it wont be it's own project. We'd just really really really want to release this in bits, harden them, and then do something more crazy. Releasing seven crazy-projects onto TQ at the same time is.. crazy. You devs are just a big box of crazy, amirite? I'm just a programmer. I think the real insanity lies within CCP Habakuk who has been with Gridlock since it's original inception, and actually has to deal with the quality assurance side of our work. I can promise you that when you're polishing poop-code, you're going to end up with something of poop-ish quality.
And CCP PrismX is posting about me without reading first the comment, which I just posted.
CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Gridlock
Bug reporting | Mass Testing
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Two step
Aperture Harmonics No Holes Barred
4791
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Posted - 2014.10.31 12:47:03 -
[29] - Quote
Also, CCP PrismX is distracted by his constant need to foment revolution against the tyrannical Icelandic Government... :P
CSM 7 Secretary
CSM 6 Alternate Delegate
@two_step_eve on Twitter
My Blog
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CCP Prism X
C C P C C P Alliance
1549
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Posted - 2014.10.31 12:50:40 -
[30] - Quote
This is true. But it's not my fault, it's because my government and I differ in our opinion on the purpose of a society and the rationale for individuals to belong to them.
CCP Prism X
Programmer on Team Gridlock & Expert Ranter
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Khan Wrenth
Hedion University Amarr Empire
75
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Posted - 2014.10.31 13:12:24 -
[31] - Quote
Okay, so I saw a wall of text, and a lot of talk about random snippits of things I might understand in a vacuum but not when connected to the larger conversation. So, for those of us who don't already know what "brain in a box" is, what the hell is it? Do I have to worry about it being the seventh deadly sin and having it delivered to me on a desert road?
HTFU.-á Adapt or die.-á Beware the falcon punch.
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Peter Drakon
Lith 'n' Brannor Enterprises Northern Associates.
12
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Posted - 2014.10.31 13:15:40 -
[32] - Quote
CCP Prism X wrote:Story so far ...
As a developer my self who has seen a few things... I feel for you. :-)
Also: making current classes into stubs and interfaces...? Those can make re-factoring easier... sometimes... or at least more separated... hardest thing in my experience is where to draw the line, say no more!, and stop... before that ever growing poo-ball crushes you...
Keep it up, you WILL solve it eventually! :-)
Peter |
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
796
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Posted - 2014.10.31 13:26:09 -
[33] - Quote
Khan Wrenth wrote:Okay, so I saw a wall of text, and a lot of talk about random snippits of things I might understand in a vacuum but not when connected to the larger conversation. So, for those of us who don't already know what "brain in a box" is, what the hell is it? Do I have to worry about it being the seventh deadly sin and having it delivered to me on a desert road? Brain in a box is the solution to jump lag and the update to the game action code (dogma) needs to be completed before it and on grid boosting can be implemented.
If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe.
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CCP Prism X
C C P C C P Alliance
1553
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Posted - 2014.10.31 13:32:44 -
[34] - Quote
Khan Wrenth wrote:Okay, so I saw a wall of text, and a lot of talk about random snippits of things I might understand in a vacuum but not when connected to the larger conversation. So, for those of us who don't already know what "brain in a box" is, what the hell is it? Do I have to worry about it being the seventh deadly sin and having it delivered to me on a desert road?
Brain in a Box is an EVE Framework project, not a feature project. So you'll probalby not have to worry about us killing EVE.
In short: Brain in a box is a technical project to offload calculations from a given systems simulation cpu, and only having the end results of said calculations used by the simulation cpu. This saves a lot of work, should alleviate TiDi on Fleet Warps (as setting up a ship now takes a tenth of the time it used to take) as well as the load in Jita-like systems.
Team Gridlock FanFest 2014 Presentation
CCP Prism X
Programmer on Team Gridlock & Expert Ranter
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6325
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Posted - 2014.10.31 13:54:23 -
[35] - Quote
programming, not even once.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2939
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Posted - 2014.10.31 15:59:03 -
[36] - Quote
don't forget unit tests, or i don't let you play with my skills!
eve style bounties (done)
dust boarding parties
imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW
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Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1557
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Posted - 2014.10.31 20:08:03 -
[37] - Quote
Spaghetti code online
Skills in a hangar. That sounds... Weird. I guess it was one of those "guys guys guys, I have an awesome idea how we can avoid some work" ideas
Build your empire !
Start today ! Rent Space in Perrigen Falls and Feythabolis
Contact me for details :)
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Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
198
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Posted - 2014.10.31 21:14:59 -
[38] - Quote
Sol Project wrote:
And I want some of the drugs CCP Prism X uses, because that was some confusing read.
This is your brain on code... |
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment The Camel Empire
1074
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Posted - 2014.10.31 21:38:49 -
[39] - Quote
CCP Prism X wrote:When you inject skillbooks into your head, that's exactly what you're doing: Changing the location of the skillbook item to be your character. Your skills are just an inventory you keep in your character as opposed to your ship and that means they travel around with your characters inventory. This makes all skill handling awkward, especially so when they are being precomputed by your character node which has to get information from the location node and we are trying to offload work from location nodes. I'm not going to go too deeply into this because I need to stop writing this post at some point.
Haha, that explains that one exploit where a dude injected random stuff into his brain. Like POS forcefields and thus made them disappear in space. He killed some baby supers that way.
German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com
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Andy Koraka
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
45
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Posted - 2014.10.31 21:58:10 -
[40] - Quote
So serious question. We're all aware of how whenever 100+ pilots undock or jump through a gate, or otherwise undergo a session change the node gets bogged down and enters deep tidi (hence the need for BIAB in the first place). Will you guys be adjusting the node mapping to compensate?
A while back CCP changed the node mapping so that local space is generally on the same node, thus a fight in Delve wouldn't cause ti-di in Tenal or elsewhere spread across EvE.
Pre-Pheobe it wasn't really a big deal since most fleet travel was direct to the destination via jump drive/titan bridge, but Post-Pheobe fleets are expected to rely on taking gates the current mapping scheme is problematic.
Since large parts of a region currently share the same node, whenever multiple fleets start take gates somewhere the lag compounds. Even a pair of modest 150 man fleets traveling towards a Sov timer will really be 300 people repeatedly session changing on the same node (enough to sustain low 10-30% tidi). With medium sized fights, even one full fleet on each side will still be 500 people taking gates on the same node, which the servers flat out can't handle, which is a large part of why the Ghost Site event last fall received so much negative feedback.
Will you guys be going back to the old "scattered" node mapping so that when 2 fleets travel in the same region they won't be on the same node, thus triggering heavy lag? It's unfortunate that one guy ratting halfway across EvE will be inconvienenced by Ti-Di for a minute or two, but it's better than making 500 sit in max tidi for a lot longer. |
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Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
735
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Posted - 2014.10.31 22:15:18 -
[41] - Quote
I'll see if I understand what it is that BiAB is suppose to do or I imagine that it will do.
I'll do it with a picture. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1558
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Posted - 2014.10.31 22:36:11 -
[42] - Quote
This comment came up on reddit. And I can not not link it:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2kx2p3/ccp_prismx_on_the_brain_in_box_project_in_my_biab/clpjabp
Build your empire !
Start today ! Rent Space in Perrigen Falls and Feythabolis
Contact me for details :)
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MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
2012
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Posted - 2014.10.31 23:23:23 -
[43] - Quote
CCP Prism X wrote:
In conclusion: Stuff is happening. It's happening slowly and painfully but it's happening. I have my personal dreams as to when this could reasonably be expected to be finished, but I intend to keep them to myselves. It's important to have dreams and aspirations and you can't have mine.
You have to dream a dream to have a dream come true.
Fight the good fight
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
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Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1388
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Posted - 2014.10.31 23:47:34 -
[44] - Quote
CCP Prism X wrote:This is because as it stands your skills are items. When you inject skillbooks into your head, that's exactly what you're doing: Changing the location of the skillbook item to be your character. Mmmh... so the stories about once being able to use dark snake charming arts to inject items other than skillbooks into your head were probably true.
.
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2942
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Posted - 2014.11.01 00:44:16 -
[45] - Quote
Andy Koraka wrote:So serious question. We're all aware of how whenever 100+ pilots undock or jump through a gate, or otherwise undergo a session change the node gets bogged down and enters deep tidi (hence the need for BIAB in the first place). Will you guys be adjusting the node mapping to compensate?
A while back CCP changed the node mapping so that local space is generally on the same node, thus a fight in Delve wouldn't cause ti-di in Tenal or elsewhere spread across EvE. .
you assume that the skills are not recomputed when you jump between systems on the same node... (which is very reasonable). But it isn't the case. It is actually faster when two connected systems are on two different nodes. Since this literally splits the workload of a jump to two distinct servers. Its the only parallelism they have. There was a quite long devblog about system mapping around 6month ago or so. I was a bit sad as i read that :(
eve style bounties (done)
dust boarding parties
imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW
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Sales Alt negrodamus
SalesAltCorp
7
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Posted - 2014.11.01 01:31:04 -
[46] - Quote
PrismX, very nice work. I do similar work so I understand and appreciate the lunacy :D
Now at the risk of invoking the wrath of the parallelization gods, I gots a question that is probably ideally suited to you:
Given how the BIAB stuff is going to take a load of computation off a given node and put it elsewhere, would it be possible / technically feasible to setup an environment where a given solar system is effectively hosted on multiple nodes?
Even better, can we get dynamic node remapping?
You talking about a C rewrite makes me hopeful. |
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CCP Habakuk
C C P C C P Alliance
1067
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Posted - 2014.11.01 01:40:33 -
[47] - Quote
Andy Koraka wrote:So serious question. We're all aware of how whenever 100+ pilots undock or jump through a gate, or otherwise undergo a session change the node gets bogged down and enters deep tidi (hence the need for BIAB in the first place). Will you guys be adjusting the node mapping to compensate?
A while back CCP changed the node mapping so that local space is generally on the same node, thus a fight in Delve wouldn't cause ti-di in Tenal or elsewhere spread across EvE.
Pre-Pheobe it wasn't really a big deal since most fleet travel was direct to the destination via jump drive/titan bridge, but Post-Pheobe fleets are expected to rely on taking gates the current mapping scheme is problematic. ...
I don't think that we will need to do (significant) changes to node mapping due to BIAB - but the load in many systems should be lower (we could increase the number of systems per node - but I don't think that we will do this). With BIAB it might be better to jump between systems on the same node compared to systems on different nodes - but it is a bit too early to tell as I don't have any numbers yet for this. Several years in the past we thought that it would be beneficial for server load to have neighboring systems on the same node - but mass tests (and reports from TQ) proofed this to be wrong.
For the jump changes with Phoebe: I can imagine, that we might see a few more small lag spikes for moving capitals, but time will tell how capitals are moving exactly after these changes. I don't think that it will be necessary to change the node mapping for this - but we will for sure monitor how the server is doing and take action if really necessary.
CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Gridlock
Bug reporting | Mass Testing
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Jessica Danikov
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
419
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Posted - 2014.11.01 01:46:20 -
[48] - Quote
If you took a step back, cleared the board and did an EVE 2.0, how would you do things differently? |
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CCP Habakuk
C C P C C P Alliance
1068
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 01:57:57 -
[49] - Quote
Sales Alt negrodamus wrote:PrismX, very nice work. I do similar work so I understand and appreciate the lunacy :D
Now at the risk of invoking the wrath of the parallelization gods, I gots a question that is probably ideally suited to you:
Given how the BIAB stuff is going to take a load of computation off a given node and put it elsewhere, would it be possible / technically feasible to setup an environment where a given solar system is effectively hosted on multiple nodes?
Even better, can we get dynamic node remapping?
You talking about a C rewrite makes me hopeful.
I'm trying to answer, as I am already active here in the forums:
As far as I can tell as non-programmer BIAB will not make it easier to host a given solar system on multiple nodes. We are trying to move as much load as possible from the system nodes to other nodes to reduce the need for splitting systems themselves (which would be a massive undertaking).
Dynamic node remapping: I would love it, but there is still a long way to go. BIAB might even help a tiny bit with this, but there is still a LOT to be done (and many other things are more important).
CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Gridlock
Bug reporting | Mass Testing
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Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
74
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Posted - 2014.11.01 03:25:06 -
[50] - Quote
CCP Habakuk wrote:... a given solar system ... No.
I don't know why it's wrong in-game, but maybe someone simply didn't know better and through the fact that the public gets this wrong easily, nobody cared about even noticing.
There is only one solar system in the whole universe.
There is no solar system in the EVE universe.
Sol is the name of our star. Sun is the more commonly used name for this star.
They're star systems, not solar systems.
Can you fix this? |
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
5512
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Posted - 2014.11.01 07:38:21 -
[51] - Quote
Awesome stuff, CCPs Prizm X, Habakuk & Hedgehog!
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1847
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Posted - 2014.11.01 08:13:19 -
[52] - Quote
Sol Project wrote:CCP Habakuk wrote:... a given solar system ... No. I don't know why it's wrong in-game, but maybe someone simply didn't know better and through the fact that the public gets this wrong easily, nobody cared about even noticing. There is only one solar system in the whole universe. There is no solar system in the EVE universe. Sol is the name of our star. Sun is the more commonly used name for this star. They're star systems, not solar systems. Can you fix this?
And how do you know that all starts are not known as sun as the generic name of the astronomical entity in the eve universe? Remember... they have only LEGENDS about Terra.
also.. no one cares...
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
For the rest hire PoH |
Recruitment
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Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2878
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Posted - 2014.11.01 11:18:18 -
[53] - Quote
Go devs!
Thanks for posting war stories, hopefully neither python nor other black magic can stop you from finishing and releasing BiaB in some near-ish future (measured rather in years then decades).
But that fragment about skills being items in out head inventory is kind of WTF case. Wouldn't it be just easier and simpler to have it coded as most primitive list/table where each skill is at specified index and number stored at that index is current trained level of that skill? After all everybody can eventually train every skill so WTF complicate things by making this whole inventory in my head voodoo. Actually that would make sense if I could eject trained skill from my head and make an implant out of it or sth that could be traded and used by somebody else but that's not possible so really, WhoTF thought it was a good idea? Hilmar? :)
Invalid signature format
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Elsa Nietchize
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
46
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Posted - 2014.11.01 12:33:35 -
[54] - Quote
How I read the OP
Quote:We are working on a hard problem to make things better. We've developing iteratively as we want to explore all possible solutions to find the best one. Progress is slow but is steady. The barrier to entry on this problem is large and personal changes lead to delays as new members must ramp up on extensive an knowledge base. Further, as the problem is a core problem, it has many inter-connected parts which lead to us not being able to solve this problem in singularity. Rather, we must solve this problem and any new problems that arise with the interconnected components. We have hypotheses out the outcomes of our progress but are committed to thorough testing to ensure our positive outcomes are realized.
You're doing God's work. Keep fighting the good fight. |
bubble trout
Rolled Out Black Legion.
229
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Posted - 2014.11.01 12:55:14 -
[55] - Quote
k |
Abramul
StarFleet Enterprises Intrepid Crossing
25
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Posted - 2014.11.01 14:10:29 -
[56] - Quote
Sol Project wrote:CCP Habakuk wrote:... a given solar system ... No. I don't know why it's wrong in-game, but maybe someone simply didn't know better and through the fact that the public gets this wrong easily, nobody cared about even noticing. There is only one solar system in the whole universe. There is no solar system in the EVE universe. Sol is the name of our star. Sun is the more commonly used name for this star. They're star systems, not solar systems. Can you fix this? I never noticed this. Now it's probably going to bother me every time I check which system I'm in... |
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
75
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Posted - 2014.11.01 14:29:26 -
[57] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:And how do you know that all starts are not known as sun as the generic name of the astronomical entity in the eve universe? Remember... they have only LEGENDS about Terra.
also.. no one cares... Well, then stay true to your words and stay silent. As you wish to display that you do not care, I will happily dismiss your nonsense.
You're welcome. |
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
75
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Posted - 2014.11.01 14:32:32 -
[58] - Quote
Abramul wrote:I never noticed this. Now it's probably going to bother me every time I check which system I'm in... Good. It's sad that they actually make the issue worse, supporting the cluelessness of the masses.
Did you know that most people don't feel their tongues all the time? It's the same with the nose. Although they're both there, ALL THE TIME, people often aren't aware of them until they check. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3176
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Posted - 2014.11.01 20:08:46 -
[59] - Quote
Sol Project wrote:CCP Habakuk wrote:... a given solar system ... No. I don't know why it's wrong in-game, but maybe someone simply didn't know better and through the fact that the public gets this wrong easily, nobody cared about even noticing. There is only one solar system in the whole universe. There is no solar system in the EVE universe. Sol is the name of our star. Sun is the more commonly used name for this star. They're star systems, not solar systems. Can you fix this?
Actually a star system is a system composed by several stars orbiting each other. The planets and other bodies (comets, asteroids, planetesimals, et cetera) orbiting a star (be it a single star or a part of a star system) are known as a planetary system.
As EVE does not have lone stars nor star systems, I guess we could just agree to talk about "systems".
(To make things more complicated, Sol System is the name of the data synchronization core behind Tranquility cluster, and whose 1 hertz ticks are so intrinsecal to EVE)
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
80
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Posted - 2014.11.01 20:17:04 -
[60] - Quote
I accept "systems" as well, because it's still *right*.
But the system of Sol is ... not actually in New Eden. I would accept it if they renamed every star to Sol, too. Then we have 7000+ solar systems in honour of the real one. Or just the one of Hek. That'd be neat. Has only three letters too!
Oh and yeah, I know Sol. My main machine at home has the same name. ;) |
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Summer Isle
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
133
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Posted - 2014.11.02 06:54:20 -
[61] - Quote
Sol Project wrote:CCP Habakuk wrote:... a given solar system ... No. I don't know why it's wrong in-game, but maybe someone simply didn't know better and through the fact that the public gets this wrong easily, nobody cared about even noticing. There is only one solar system in the whole universe. There is no solar system in the EVE universe. Sol is the name of our star. Sun is the more commonly used name for this star. They're star systems, not solar systems. Can you fix this? If you really want to get technical, they're Planetary Systems, not Star Systems, as every system in EVE (at least, every system that I've encountered) has at least one planet.
-áTalk is cheap, but Void S and Quake L are cheaper.
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Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
82
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Posted - 2014.11.02 10:42:36 -
[62] - Quote
The point has been made. I don't care what they do as long as they stop this madness. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1644
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 11:21:59 -
[63] - Quote
Summer Isle wrote: If you really want to get technical, they're Planetary Systems, not Star Systems, as every system in EVE (at least, every system that I've encountered) has at least one planet.
Since they are all binary systems also you could call them star systems as well. Solar systems however is common usage, and since English is a living language meaning of words & phrases does change to reflect common usage. It's not Latin. So you can't say 'This doesn't mean x' with absolute certainty when dealing with common usage terms.
On BiaB however. Thanks for the update, glad to know it's still underway as that will be a huge shift for large fleet movements. |
WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1665
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Posted - 2014.11.02 12:45:54 -
[64] - Quote
what is this brain in a box even?
A.K.A Hodor Von Grootenberg
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WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1665
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Posted - 2014.11.02 12:49:23 -
[65] - Quote
Sol Project wrote:CCP Habakuk wrote:... a given solar system ... No. I don't know why it's wrong in-game, but maybe someone simply didn't know better and through the fact that the public gets this wrong easily, nobody cared about even noticing. There is only one solar system in the whole universe. There is no solar system in the EVE universe. Sol is the name of our star. Sun is the more commonly used name for this star. They're star systems, not solar systems. Can you fix this? there is nothing to fix. again you fail to provide a logical argument and you only look stupid when you say things that anyone who really knows will immediately identify as false.
you are one of the worst wannabe trolls I've ever had the misfortune to see.
A.K.A Hodor Von Grootenberg
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8891
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Posted - 2014.11.02 12:49:39 -
[66] - Quote
WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame wrote:what is this brain in a box even?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABrSYqiqvzc
Oh wait, you said brain, thought you said something else .
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Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
84
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 14:26:09 -
[67] - Quote
WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame wrote:Sol Project wrote:CCP Habakuk wrote:... a given solar system ... No. I don't know why it's wrong in-game, but maybe someone simply didn't know better and through the fact that the public gets this wrong easily, nobody cared about even noticing. There is only one solar system in the whole universe. There is no solar system in the EVE universe. Sol is the name of our star. Sun is the more commonly used name for this star. They're star systems, not solar systems. Can you fix this? there is nothing to fix. again you fail to provide a logical argument and you only look stupid when you say things that anyone who really knows will immediately identify as false. you are one of the worst wannabe trolls I've ever had the misfortune to see. LOL liafcipe9000 so mad. so silly. |
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
84
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Posted - 2014.11.02 14:32:40 -
[68] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:So you can't say 'This doesn't mean x' with absolute certainty when dealing with common usage terms I can say, because that's how it is. Look it up. It being common usage doesn't change the fact that it's wrong. Lots of people saying the same wrong thing doesn't make that thing right.
Like all the idiots who don't understand what "PvP" means and mistake it for "combat" only. |
Vic Vorlon
Aideron Robotics
24
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Posted - 2014.11.06 14:53:22 -
[69] - Quote
What's the estimate on how many more ships each node will be able to handle when BiaB is complete? |
enterprisePSI
289
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Posted - 2014.11.06 15:28:48 -
[70] - Quote
WTF is BIAB!:!?
The tears of the many, outweigh the tears of the few. Or the one. enterprise-psi-¬
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howling wind
Section 8. Fatal Ascension
29
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Posted - 2014.11.06 17:16:22 -
[71] - Quote
enterprisePSI wrote: WTF is BIAB!:!?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5167245#post5167245 |
Riyria Twinpeaks
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
2135
|
Posted - 2014.11.06 18:13:43 -
[72] - Quote
Sol Project wrote:I accept "systems" as well, because it's still *right*.
But the system of Sol is ... not actually in New Eden. I would accept it if they renamed every star to Sol, too. Then we have 7000+ solar systems in honour of the real one. Or just the one of Hek. That'd be neat. Has only three letters too!
Oh and yeah, I know Sol. My main machine at home has the same name. ;)
Take a look at your overview settings, the section "Celestials". You'll find that the setting to make the stars appear on your overview is actually called "Sun". This indicates that in New Eden, "Sun" is a general term usable for all stars. :) |
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
47
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Posted - 2014.11.07 17:23:15 -
[73] - Quote
While originally defined as our specific star, it is becoming more common in cosmology for the term "sun" to be used in reference to the specific star(s) of a given star system. Lawrence Krauss uses the term in such a way and he's all kinds of awesome.
The term "solar" meanwhile still generally references our own star system specifically. "Extrasolar" planets are planets outside our star system. "Solar System" almost always refers to our star system.
The expanded use of the word "sun" without an expanded use of the word "solar" doesn't make logical sense but that's English for you.
~ Bookmarks in overview
~ Fleet improvements
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Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
5095
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Posted - 2014.11.07 17:28:49 -
[74] - Quote
I am wondering if the free server resources could be used to turn the sphere based collision geometry into other shapes. Similar with warp-to areas and docking belts of stations.
Sovereignty and Population
New Mining Mechanics
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
4141
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Posted - 2014.11.07 17:35:52 -
[75] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:I am wondering if the free server resources could be used to turn the sphere based collision geometry into other shapes. Similar with warp-to areas and docking belts of stations.
The collision geometry isn't sphere based. It's collection of spheres based.
Just a small note
Woo! CSM 9!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
407
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Posted - 2014.11.07 21:15:02 -
[76] - Quote
EVE is in the future and we speak futuremerican here. Therefor you can not say that solar system and sun are incorrect. That is just the EVEmerican way. It is also why we refer to our space craft as spoons instead of spaceships, and carry our brains around in boxes. |
Cyndrogen
Angels Of Life
629
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Posted - 2014.11.07 21:31:52 -
[77] - Quote
Took me a while to get the concept of "Brain in a Box", is it essentially the same as caching?
Basically you calculate all the attributes ONCE, then place those values and "bake" them so they only need to be calculated every time a skill cue is finished?
Or am I completely misunderstanding the concept?
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stoicfaux
5394
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Posted - 2014.11.07 21:57:38 -
[78] - Quote
Cyndrogen wrote:Took me a while to get the concept of "Brain in a Box", is it essentially the same as caching?
Basically you calculate all the attributes ONCE, then place those values and "bake" them so they only need to be calculated every time a skill cue is finished?
Or am I completely misunderstanding the concept?
Completely. You need to rethink what a cue is...
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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