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Raider Zero
Minmatar
Federation
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Posted - 2006.08.23 18:06:00 -
[1]
Let me start by explaining that in general I feel CCP is doing a great job with Eve and the whole team is working very hard to give the player base an excellent product in my opinion.
That being said, why is is that with every patch, one would not know of major changes simply by reading the patch notes? This time, there were new systems added, the login was changed to add a queue, and busy systems now have a jump queue. With other patches there were other "stealth" changes. I fail to see why it would not be in the best interest of both CCP and the players to have notes reflecting what was actually changed, not just some things.
The notes that are released often note very general bug fixes as well. I would think that a specific description of the bug that is fixed would be beneficial. After all, if somebody has the problem after the patch, they then know that it was supposed to be fixed and are more likely to report it again than if they think CCP already knows about it or is ignoring it for the time being.
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Sakura Nihil
Tharsis Security
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Posted - 2006.08.23 18:22:00 -
[2]
I tend to agree, its rather unsettling that the first thing I do is wake up, read the forums, and discover that now there is the possibility we might have to deal with jump queues or login queues. Thankfully for now, both are disabled or set to very high default values before they kick in; problem is for me, that the content has been added, and might lead to a slippery slope where the devs might begin to use them to decrease lag or another reason.
As for the star systems, total agreement. It would have been a good selling point of the new patch, so why was there absolutely no mention of it in the patch notes?
OMG, WCS Nerf! |
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kieron
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Posted - 2006.08.23 23:43:00 -
[3]
All three of the items mentioned by the OP were not supposed to make it onto Tranquility. As stated elsewhere, this deployment was a convergence of the Tranquility and Serenity code bases. Serenity has some extra 'newbie' systems to lessen the tutorial load, the log-in and jump queues are also to assist with load balancing.
These changes were not supposed to be active when the code branch went live on TQ and if it was determined they were needed in the future, notification of the changes would have been made before turning them on.
It was decided to leave the new systems active and available. The queues will be held in reserve for a future date, if TQ grows to the point of them being needed.
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online |
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Gonada
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.23 23:49:00 -
[4]
/hand his whining and crying towel to the OP.
-I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
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Testicular Testes
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Posted - 2006.08.23 23:57:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: kieron
All three of the items mentioned by the OP were not supposed to make it onto Tranquility. As stated elsewhere, this deployment was a convergence of the Tranquility and Serenity code bases. Serenity has some extra 'newbie' systems to lessen the tutorial load, the log-in and jump queues are also to assist with load balancing.
These changes were not supposed to be active when the code branch went live on TQ and if it was determined they were needed in the future, notification of the changes would have been made before turning them on.
It was decided to leave the new systems active and available. The queues will be held in reserve for a future date, if TQ grows to the point of them being needed.
Does this mean they're inactive on TQ as of now, or they will be inactive within a day ? That entire post was a little bit on the vague side as to when/how the current situation would be fixed (although I haven't encountered either queues yet personally, just server instability).
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2006.08.24 00:43:00 -
[6]
Thanks for the explanation.
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Gorthox
Minmatar
Emerald Empire
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Posted - 2006.08.24 00:46:00 -
[7]
Ok here is another wired thing that I had happen to me. I was ratting in 0.0 with a bud and we were killed Angle rats 3 bs 1.8 mil and just 2 frigs. We killed them off gathering the loot and one of the cans had a 1600mm Reinforced Plate. Did not think much of it untill I docked. I Removed my Items from my cargo and put them in to my Items hanger. THen I saw it it was a Tech II 1600 Reinforced. I had no tech II items in my hanger at the time.
I dont know what happend but its there so eaither the rats are droping Tech II loot or its a bug.
Tell me what u guys think and if there is any other crap like this going on..
Thanks
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2006.08.24 01:19:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Tsanse Kinske on 24/08/2006 01:20:44
Originally by: Gorthox
Tell me what u guys think and if there is any other crap like this going on..
Oh, in a case like this the simplest explanation is usually the one that's right:
A fleet of BoB battleships ran into the Angel npc and his gang earlier, got in over their heads, and got all blowed up. The rat and his mates pick up the loot cans...and what do they find? 
A little while later you come along, and the rest is w00tness.
Obviously NPCs looting cans is just another little thing that slipped into the patch. 
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Sakura Nihil
Tharsis Security
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Posted - 2006.08.24 01:33:00 -
[9]
Another thing my corp has noticed is that the price for skillbooks has also changed; not just the expensive ones either (like amarr carrier +20m, or capital ships +16m), but many books on the whole.
 , normal NPC adjustments I suppose?
OMG, WCS Nerf! |
Lurtz
Caldari
Gunrunners and Gamblers
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Posted - 2006.08.24 03:03:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Lurtz on 24/08/2006 03:04:12
Originally by: Sakura Nihil
Another thing my corp has noticed is that the price for skillbooks has also changed; not just the expensive ones either (like amarr carrier +20m, or capital ships +16m), but many books on the whole.
, normal NPC adjustments I suppose?
didn't notice actually myself (don't buy many skills anymore), but as for it not being in patch notes, that isn't surprising. Letting people know that something is about to go up in value results in people buying items in hopes of cashing in after the patch (I still have almost 500 small tractor beam I bpo, because a previous patch note said price would be changed, and they then changed their mind  )
But on this note I may go work for a few school agents if the value of the books they give out has gone up.....
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Karol Kei
Tabula Rasa Systems
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Posted - 2006.08.24 07:08:00 -
[11]
Thank you for clarification.
The queue system will have some profound effects in the gameplay that will change the very core of the game when combined with other existing game mechanics if it ever goes live. I am glad to read that this was not intentional, at this time.
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Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2006.08.24 07:15:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Obviously NPCs looting cans is just another little thing that slipped into the patch.
Aaah, memories from OU and *yoing*'ing dragons after they have bbq'd you. 
Unnerf Amarr!
"Just because you can utterly ruin another player's game doesn't mean that you must."
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.08.24 07:19:00 -
[13]
The patch notes generally fail to mention about 80% of the changes and are slightly accurate on about 75% of the listed changes.
Sagas are en vogue in Iceland for multiple centuries.
I enjoy the playerbase finding out what was actually changed, and how things are meant to work. 
--*=*=*--
Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment. |
Julia Reave
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Posted - 2006.08.24 07:55:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Julia Reave on 24/08/2006 07:55:04
So on Serenity they have to deal with these queues? That really makes it an entirely different game, not one that I wanted to play.
I sincerely hope CCP never turn on these queues on Tranquility, that would kill the game IMHO. Keep in mind players' reactions and their arguments: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=382867
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.24 08:23:00 -
[15]
Originally by: kieron
The queues will be held in reserve for a future date, if TQ grows to the point of them being needed.
What does this mean? Will you turn them off during the downtime?
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
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Ivan Kirilenkov
Forum Moderator
Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2006.08.24 08:28:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: kieron
The queues will be held in reserve for a future date, if TQ grows to the point of them being needed.
What does this mean? Will you turn them off during the downtime?
It means that if you're a naughty boy on the forums during downtime Wrangler will put you at the back of the queue :P
On a more serious note, I believe it's been stated that it's disabled at the moment and that it might be turned on when needed, i.e after the server goes down and there's a rush to log back on.
eve-crc.net | forum rules |[email protected] |
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Nafri
Caldari
Cataclysm Enterprises
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.08.24 08:51:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ivan Kirilenkov
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: kieron
The queues will be held in reserve for a future date, if TQ grows to the point of them being needed.
What does this mean? Will you turn them off during the downtime?
It means that if you're a naughty boy on the forums during downtime Wrangler will put you at the back of the queue :P
On a more serious note, I believe it's been stated that it's disabled at the moment and that it might be turned on when needed, i.e after the server goes down and there's a rush to log back on.
They are definitly active atm
From Dusk till Dawn
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fuze
Gallente
Chosen Path
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Posted - 2006.08.24 09:08:00 -
[18]
Originally by: kieron
The queues will be held in reserve for a future date, if TQ grows to the point of them being needed.
When that day comes think again about sharding.
Its not very encouraging being nerfed over and over again to let CCP squeeze more juice out of TQ to let more people in at the same time.
If we're queued anyway I'd rather have TQ capped.
http://www.digitaloperationtheater.com/images/chosen.gif |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.24 09:17:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ivan Kirilenkov
It means that if you're a naughty boy on the forums during downtime Wrangler will put you at the back of the queue :P
I like it when Wrangler is rough with me...
Seriously, yep, you are probably right about the queues. Kieron is probably shaking his head at all the rabble about it, but I think he understands everyones concerns as well.
But now, im actually going to spend a day in that real life everyone is talking about... so see you tonight. :)
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
PhamNuwen
Caldari
Bungee Jumper
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Posted - 2006.08.24 10:46:00 -
[20]
Originally by: kieron
All three of the items mentioned by the OP were not supposed to make it onto Tranquility.
:
These changes were not supposed to be active when the code branch went live on TQ and if it was determined they were needed in the future, notification of the changes would have been made before turning them on.
:
...means you (CCP) did never test the correct deployment of the patch.
You got hint about the new systems on test server...
You did see the queues all the days...
Not realy a good quality assurance 
But, nevertheless, it is running now - and THIS is a success.
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.08.24 11:07:00 -
[21]
Customers! I meant to customers!
--*=*=*--
Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment. |
Tachy
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Posted - 2006.08.24 11:07:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Ivan Kirilenkov
[...]
[...]Kieron is probably shaking his head[...]
Kieron is probably busy in Leipzig at the Games convention, proudly presenting the new and shiny localised German client to helpless victims.
--*=*=*--
Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment. |
Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.08.24 11:09:00 -
[23]
u see whats happening is they are pushing things thro so quickly (and we can always patch it later) this is what happens has always been the case and makes the game interesting every few months
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Daka Daka
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Posted - 2006.08.24 11:28:00 -
[24]
All i've read is that the Queue system is not active, however my experience of trying to get into the station my docked in Kaunokka is quite the opposite.
this morning 8.10 eve time. i logged in and selected my Char only to be told i'm 8th in the queue and was sitting there waiting for over 10mins to actually get into the game.
this also happened last night when i was ingame and tried to jump into Yria (where a friend was and only 43 people were in local) that time it said i was 3rd in the queue and again was waiting for a few minutes. IF this was a lower sec place i would probably be dead because of this *** feature ***.
So would is be possible to get a real answer of YES the queue's are active rather than saying its disable when its not.
just my 2p. =)
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Dinique
Caldari
Malicious Intentions
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Posted - 2006.08.24 14:03:00 -
[25]
Originally by: kieron
All three of the items mentioned by the OP were not supposed to make it onto Tranquility. As stated elsewhere, this deployment was a convergence of the Tranquility and Serenity code bases. Serenity has some extra 'newbie' systems to lessen the tutorial load, the log-in and jump queues are also to assist with load balancing.
These changes were not supposed to be active when the code branch went live on TQ and if it was determined they were needed in the future, notification of the changes would have been made before turning them on.
It was decided to leave the new systems active and available. The queues will be held in reserve for a future date, if TQ grows to the point of them being needed.
Maybe try logging into EVE. Then tell us the queues are disabled.
Dusk till Dawn
Twilight to Starlight
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Julia Reave
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Posted - 2006.08.24 14:05:00 -
[26]
So what's the current status now?
Queues are supposed to be disabled and are in fact disabled/still in effect?
Queues are supposed to be disabled later and when will that be?
Queues are not gonna be disabled at all?
Clarification from the devs and more user reports needed!
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Harisdrop
Gallente
RONA Deepspace
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.08.24 17:15:00 -
[27]
I am not a number.
I am not a number.
I am not a number.
I am not a number.
Well now I feel better.
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Epsilon 1
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Posted - 2006.08.24 17:32:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Tachy
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Ivan Kirilenkov
[...]
[...]Kieron is probably shaking his head[...]
Kieron is probably busy in Leipzig at the Games convention, proudly presenting the new and shiny localised German client to helpless victims.
i love you
Originally by: Steven Gerrard
Why do those minmatarians throw their ships together from toilet paper and junk?
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fairimear
Gallente
S.A.S
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Posted - 2006.08.24 17:37:00 -
[29]
Originally by: kieron
All three of the items mentioned by the OP were not supposed to make it onto Tranquility. As stated elsewhere, this deployment was a convergence of the Tranquility and Serenity code bases. Serenity has some extra 'newbie' systems to lessen the tutorial load, the log-in and jump queues are also to assist with load balancing.
These changes were not supposed to be active when the code branch went live on TQ and if it was determined they were needed in the future, notification of the changes would have been made before turning them on.
It was decided to leave the new systems active and available. The queues will be held in reserve for a future date, if TQ grows to the point of them being needed.
well i think it's fari to say, if you ever fully implement them as they was yesterday you soon wont need them again.
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Altaree
Gallente
Red Frog Investments
Daikoku Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.08.24 17:42:00 -
[30]
Shouldn't the patch notes be updated to reflect these unintened changes?
StopThePop |
Julia Reave
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Posted - 2006.08.25 08:54:00 -
[31]
According to various reports in other threads these queues are still active...I ask once again: When are they going to be disabled?
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Beovvulf
Contraband Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.08.25 09:47:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Beovvulf on 25/08/2006 09:47:43
Quote:
According to various reports in other threads these queues are still active...I ask once again: When are they going to be disabled?
I would assume that the queues will be turned off when the server is patched.
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2006.08.25 20:50:00 -
[33]
"The EVE Cluster has reached it's maximum user limit. Please try logging in again later. You are #2 in the line for logon"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Julia Reave
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Posted - 2006.08.26 09:55:00 -
[34]
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.26 09:59:00 -
[35]
Maybe some chinese programmers coded the queue system and all the code comments how to turn it off is in chinese... 
The official word seems to be that the queues are turned off... so... yeah.
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Zankoku
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.08.26 10:17:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Sakura Nihil
Another thing my corp has noticed is that the price for skillbooks has also changed; not just the expensive ones either (like amarr carrier +20m, or capital ships +16m), but many books on the whole.
, normal NPC adjustments I suppose?
I saw that also. All still books cost about 4.5% higher than before the patch. I had a shopping list and had all the prices written down, so I noticed.
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Raider Zero
Minmatar
Federation
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Posted - 2006.08.29 14:12:00 -
[37]
I have at least one more change that was not noted. There appears to have been significant changes made to the frequency and quality of NPC loot drops.
I cannot prove this, and over all the outcomes over all the universe, I could be in a string of bad luck, but I kinda doubt it since it seems to coincide with the update. Since the patch, all the NPC loot I get seems to be junk. I'm not talking about 'OMG I haven't got and Arby cruise all week'. I mean that I have seen more Large Cap Battery I's this week than a guy would want to in a lifetime.
I have always held the motto, "Always get your loot." That motto had served me well, as I saved isk on modules I wanted and sold some other good ones I found. The recent apparent change would encourage pretty much all mission runners to w***e missions even faster and rack up more LP and isk, but not worry about wasting time looting.
I would expect a slight increase in the cost of minerals due to the lesser number of people who will be contributing to the mineral market, and I'd expect more and more implants to flood the market, but otherwise this could be a pretty minimal adaptation. I guess I don't care, I'll sell my fleet of Exequerors and just blow more stuff up.
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Nightblade
Minmatar
Black Avatar
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.08.30 04:32:00 -
[38]
Originally by: kieron
All three of the items mentioned by the OP were not supposed to make it onto Tranquility. As stated elsewhere, this deployment was a convergence of the Tranquility and Serenity code bases. Serenity has some extra 'newbie' systems to lessen the tutorial load, the log-in and jump queues are also to assist with load balancing.
These changes were not supposed to be active when the code branch went live on TQ and if it was determined they were needed in the future, notification of the changes would have been made before turning them on.
It was decided to leave the new systems active and available. The queues will be held in reserve for a future date, if TQ grows to the point of them being needed.
Everything you have stated here is extremely depressing.
If you're deploying a patch, and testing the code before deployment, I can understand when the QA guys miss a few corner cases of the new features.
But to not even verify that new features that will be deployed in a disabled state just completely boggles my mind.
I remember a while back there was a dev blog entry by the head of the new QA department. He mentioned he was implementing all sorts of nice things that would be familiar to anyone who's worked in verification work. Sounded great at the time, and I at least was hoping that patch deployments would be smoother in the future.
Sadly, I must assume that CCP has decided that testing is not necessary, and disbanded the QA group or at the least made these people part time devs because you think you need to crank out more code.
It blows my mind that you obviously do not have enough QA activities going on for what is obviously a mission-critical piece of software. There isn't an excuse for it, and I hope with this patch someone finally learns their lesson.
Good luck guys, and if you choose not to work on your QA, well, I'll just hope that you don't kill EVE with your negligence.
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Miss Overlord
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2006.08.30 04:35:00 -
[39]
mmmm time to get on SISI TQ is unplayable and i wanna know the new bugs before they come up
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EFF ONEF1
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.30 04:42:00 -
[40]
being in game development myself, often times during the period between the patch being released and the notes being written we are able to get a few more things squeezed in. and often times the guy writting the notes doesnt know or doesnt have the time to update it. but we push the fixes to live anyways.
you win some you lose some.
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Miss Overlord
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2006.08.30 04:45:00 -
[41]
yeah hopefull a few bug free but additional things will be throw in
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eLLioTT wave
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2006.08.30 05:46:00 -
[42]
Originally by: kieron
All three of the items mentioned by the OP were not supposed to make it onto Tranquility. As stated elsewhere, this deployment was a convergence of the Tranquility and Serenity code bases. Serenity has some extra 'newbie' systems to lessen the tutorial load, the log-in and jump queues are also to assist with load balancing.
These changes were not supposed to be active when the code branch went live on TQ and if it was determined they were needed in the future, notification of the changes would have been made before turning them on.
It was decided to leave the new systems active and available. The queues will be held in reserve for a future date, if TQ grows to the point of them being needed.
Lies! the queues are killing my ships off one at a time! they are definately ACTIVE NOW.
soon ill only be undocking in T1 fitted T1 frigs (wont stop me having fun! but cmon CCP...) |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.30 05:49:00 -
[43]
Originally by: eLLioTT wave
Originally by: kieron
All three of the items mentioned by the OP were not supposed to make it onto Tranquility. As stated elsewhere, this deployment was a convergence of the Tranquility and Serenity code bases. Serenity has some extra 'newbie' systems to lessen the tutorial load, the log-in and jump queues are also to assist with load balancing.
These changes were not supposed to be active when the code branch went live on TQ and if it was determined they were needed in the future, notification of the changes would have been made before turning them on.
It was decided to leave the new systems active and available. The queues will be held in reserve for a future date, if TQ grows to the point of them being needed.
Lies! the queues are killing my ships off one at a time! they are definately ACTIVE NOW.
soon ill only be undocking in T1 fitted T1 frigs (wont stop me having fun! but cmon CCP...)
Dont call them liers... im sure they thought the queues were turned off at the time.
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Adam C
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.08.30 05:58:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Adam C on 30/08/2006 06:03:36
Originally by: PATCH NOTES
Changes
* The jump queue for systems will only occur if the system in question is on a node using 95% or more CPU. This has previously been hotfixed on TQ.
Point is
Its a screw-up. Face it.
If ure actually queing* to enter a system in eve. You should be immune to attack from players.
Its highly exploitational, and most players are very sensitive to this.
(i know a guy who logged off and petitioned* because he was in a 0.0 quite system and had this happen to him)
FIXIT! (thks nicely)
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ArchenTheGreat
Caldari
Yesodic Nomads Corp
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2006.08.30 14:50:00 -
[45]
Originally by: kieron
It was decided to leave the new systems active and available. The queues will be held in reserve for a future date, if TQ grows to the point of them being needed.
They are not needed and never will. It's not a solution for a problem. Optimize network code, rewrite Python code to C, but more PC's but DO NOT add jump queues to game. It will mean end of pvp and will leave you with afk haulers in EVE. Only afk haulers.
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