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Ms Muneca AYDS	Posted - 2006.08.24 20:00:00 - [31] Edited by: Ms Muneca on 24/08/2006 20:00:38 I don't know how people can claim pirates grief. It's low sec for a reason. You know by going into low sec you're putting you and your ship at risk for PVP. Just because you didn't go into low sec for PVP doesn't make those who engage you griefers. Griefers are the people in high sec spamming gang invites and crap, because you didn't put yourself at risk being in high sec. In one situation, you're putting yourself at risk and getting attacked by PIRATES, who are PIRATING in a LOW SECURITY system. The other situation is an exploitation of game mechanics in an underhanded attempt to ruin another players gaming experience when they DID NOT put themselves at risk, as they are still flying in a HIGH SECURITY system. Pirates vs Griefers right there. As for Anti Pirates vs Pirates, Anti pirates have specific targets, Pirates do not. ALL GRIEFERS are PIRATES (the act of stealing / attacking everyone they can), but not all PIRATES are GRIEFERS. ----------- ----------- -----------
Portios Smith Gallente Sanguine Legion Atrocitas	Posted - 2006.08.24 20:13:00 - [32] Edited by: Portios Smith on 24/08/2006 20:13:30 Originally by: Ms Muneca Stuff Humm... You don't know? There is no grief in EVE. The game is designed so that any one can attack any body any where. High Sec only means no outlaws and crimes are swiftly punished... but ther is still crime When you sign up to EVE you agree to the dangers and excitement of PVP Under construction
Ms Muneca AYDS	Posted - 2006.08.24 22:28:00 - [33] Originally by: Portios Smith Edited by: Portios Smith on 24/08/2006 20:13:30 Originally by: Ms Muneca Stuff Humm... You don't know? There is no grief in EVE. The game is designed so that any one can attack any body any where. High Sec only means no outlaws and crimes are swiftly punished... but ther is still crime When you sign up to EVE you agree to the dangers and excitement of PVP I suppose. I play this game for the PVP, and that's it. Though it's hard to argue that gang invite spamming in high sec isn't greifing (or even exploiting). ----------- ----------- -----------
War Drumb	Posted - 2006.08.24 23:08:00 - [34] Edited by: War Drumb on 24/08/2006 23:09:16 Originally by: Ms Muneca Originally by: Portios Smith Edited by: Portios Smith on 24/08/2006 20:13:30 Originally by: Ms Muneca Stuff Humm... You don't know? There is no grief in EVE. The game is designed so that any one can attack any body any where. High Sec only means no outlaws and crimes are swiftly punished... but ther is still crime When you sign up to EVE you agree to the dangers and excitement of PVP I suppose. I play this game for the PVP, and that's it. Though it's hard to argue that gang invite spamming in high sec isn't greifing (or even exploiting). The word from the GMs I heard was that if it is done on noobs it will be called griefing. But they have been doing it on Freighter pilots with a bit of time in game so they have been letting it go. And yes there is grieving (griefing) in eve. If you follow a guy around and make his life hell he can call you on it. Check out the grief rules. You know PVP is fine. But damn give the guys a chance to figure out the game. Hitting them in 1.0 space is just taking advantage of players that have no idea what they are doing. You know itÆs a sad day when the law is your maximum morality. (Quote from the Enforcers hand book) Don't fret precious I'm here, step away from the window... Go back to sleep... Lay your head down child I won't let the boogeyman come, Counting bodies like sheep To the rhythm of the war drums
Koruptdeath	Posted - 2006.08.25 00:39:00 - [35] Psh, of course there is no balance. These so called "anti-pirates" are just pirates looking to hide behind a pompous air of righteousness. Pirates and anti-pirates are all one and the same in my book. Fate is the destruction of Freedom.
Snodgey Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2006.08.25 10:30:00 - [36] Originally by: Koruptdeath Psh, of course there is no balance. These so called "anti-pirates" are just pirates looking to hide behind a pompous air of righteousness. Pirates and anti-pirates are all one and the same in my book. 100% correct , only thing is when I've said the exact same thing in-game to the anti-pirates it leads to abuse/flames and they question my intelligence , " because only a dumb pirate would say that " . I'm just amazed that I'm not the only person that thinks like that though , good to have someone else that backs me up
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.25 13:12:00 - [37] Originally by: Koruptdeath Psh, of course there is no balance. These so called "anti-pirates" are just pirates looking to hide behind a pompous air of righteousness. Pirates and anti-pirates are all one and the same in my book. Funny thing about Eve: you are what you do and you're not spoonfed a career or class. Reputation and in-game actions account for everything. Pirates prey on targets of opportunity. Any targets. Proper anti-pirates are disciplined and only shoot at confirmed pirates. No, it's not pompous righteousness; it's a choice of how individuals want to play the game. Pirates and anti-pirates are quite different.
AltTastic	Posted - 2006.08.25 14:29:00 - [38] Originally by: Koruptdeath Psh, of course there is no balance. These so called "anti-pirates" are just pirates looking to hide behind a pompous air of righteousness. Pirates and anti-pirates are all one and the same in my book. Absolutely INcorrect. I consider myself an anti-pirate, and I do it for one, very specific reason: to make the system I live in safer for the people in my system who cannot defend themselves from pirates. So that they can rat, mine, and run missions in peace. I find that to be highly different than attacking someone so I can steal their modules. We only attack targets that are known to attack people unprovoked, and only if they fire the first shot, but we stay on their tail like glue until they fire that first shot (cov ops ftw).
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.08.25 15:07:00 - [39] Some people need to sort the actual meaning of the word griefing. Imho when used in the same sentence with regular pirates, it is NOT the 'griefing' that is against the EULA and that always gets everyone up in arms. To me it is simply a word that implies someones actions are causing someone else extreme discomfort without ethical reasons. And in this context, pirates ARE griefers, as their very way of life is centered around harming others for no reason other than their own fun and profit. In a game like EVE, theres nothing wrong with that of course. Still I don't like this kind of behavior even in a game like this though, so I am of a very anti-pirate mindset, I want to lessen the grief in EVE however insignificant my contribution might be. From my experience though, most who call themselves anti-pirate are just locals who blob together and go after a pirate like a lynch mob just for the heck of it, without and kind of conviction or dedication to the actual cause. Those types are more often than not worse than the pirates themselves too :( That being said, finding pirates and engaging them in a fight that you actually have a chance to win is very very hard, so for me anti-piracy is at best a part-time job, and most of my time is spent on slaughtering countless NPC pirates instead... --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Synapse Archae Amarr Solarflare Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.08.25 18:58:00 - [40] Edited by: Synapse Archae on 25/08/2006 19:05:08 Edited by: Synapse Archae on 25/08/2006 19:00:17 Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Originally by: Synapse Archae stuff Its not a suprise your in an industry corp is it If killing someone else in this game is griefing (which btw it isn't, griefing is against the EULA) because your destroying something which doesn't belong to you. Then anti-pirates are griefers too as theyre trying to destroy something that belongs to me.... Surely.. That being said your post gives me the very clear impression that you probably dont belong in this game, and I would like to bet isk you will leave if it isn't dumbed down to your playstyle. True anti pirates have my full respect, Aegis Militia or whoever they are that actively wardec pirate corps. I've fought them, We had some good fights.. NO smack whatsoever and it was good fun. I also had a 1on1 with one of their players just after the war, my corp sat there and watched... No one interviened, It was eventually a stalemate... Apoc Vs Apoc... go figure. and the player in question had balls ! Something most anti-pirates lack Alliaanna Wow here I am being flamed by a 2 month old player in a two man corp. He clearly as no idea that an industrial corp created 3 years before he even joined the game might be a PVP corp today. I could go on about "intent" and such (because thats really what it comes down to) but if you want to pull out the dictionary and play a game of about "what is grief, grasshopper?" Then I'm not interested. I shoot people who shoot others. Simple enough for you? Suffice to say those who use open PVP as an invitation to only attack defenseless ships, then safespot and log as soon as any real threat arrives are griefing. Its just that safespot+logging tactics cant be fixed by CCP. (sadly) The concept of anti-pirates being griefers is patently ridiculous, pirates are (supposedly) looking for a fight, nevermind that so many of them fit stabs and run when suddenly they get one BTW, how much ISK are you willing to put on that bet? Ive been playing for 3 years now, if I go for as long as you've been in the game, would you pay me a nice bonus of 50 mil? Just for staying 2 months? Pfft. --------------------------------------------- http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=349194&page=1Redo Fleets[/ur
Geistkonig	Posted - 2006.08.26 19:16:00 - [41] Originally by: Synapse Archae Suffice to say those who use open PVP as an invitation to only attack defenseless ships, then safespot and log as soon as any real threat arrives are griefing Not all pirates tend to follow this pattern of behavior. Therefore, by your own definition, not all pirates are griefers. I myself have been known to pirate on occasion, and I very much disapprove of the above tactic. Pirating is fun for me as an opportunity to make some ISK and have fun PvPing with other willing or non-willing participants. If someone challenges me to a duel (and they don't have friends in the system), I will usually accept, even when the other person's ship is a match for, or sometimes even outmatches, my own. While true griefers certainly deserve everyone's wrath, blanket statements such as 'all pirates are griefers' only damage your own reputation, and turn others off to what you have to say. --- Menschliches, allzumenschliches.
Cz Ire Minmatar Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.08.26 20:53:00 - [42] I would have to agree that there is many more pirates out there than anti-pirates. I would also agree that piracy is easier - you are after any target you can find, and have no qualms about attacking an unarmed mining or transport vessel. Anti-pirates need a lot of intel, to know if their target is in fact a confirmed pirate, and also only get to attack experianced pvp-ers. There are diffrent kinds of pirates, though. I agree that the pirates that war dec peaceful high-sec industrial corps are scum and useing a form of exploit, but there are sometimes valid war decs of this nature - say, a pirate corp war dec-ing a anti-pirate corp that has been giving them trouble and retreating to high-sec. I am personally anti-pirate, and while there are many pirates out there that I consider the worst kind of scum in existance, there are also some pirates out there that fight "clean" - meaning, no smacktalk, willing to fight something more dangerous than a lone hauler, and so on. Those pirates I can at least respect, even if it will still mean respecting them down a barrel of an autocannon. If its your intent to become an anti-pirate, you will need to join an experianced and organized group, who can use even young pilots as tacklers. alone, you will just be another easy kill for any pirate that stumbles across you. If you intend to become pirate, then its all up to your luck, skill, and smarts to make your way. And the luck not to run afoul of too many anti-pirates too often. The above is a personal veiw, and not officially that of NMTZ. -Cz Ire --- "They saw the long road, the harder road. The road that would ensure what we had gained in the vicious rebellion would not be squandered... our freedom." - Republic Fleet Admiral Kanth Filmir
Rasta Rocketman Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.08.26 23:17:00 - [43] Originally by: Celeste Storm Edited by: Celeste Storm on 24/08/2006 10:50:58 Originally by: Raith Seinar But reading what the pirates write themselves, everyone and their grandma is a lame-assed, empire hugging carebear, and that the poor pirate community can't even afford 100 new rockets for their kestrels because everyone warps out before they get a chance to ransom/loot... That was a good one - I was really LOL!! The truth is, there r 2 types of prats. The 1st type is the seasoned and experienced player, who likes to pvp and loves a good fight and challenge. This type isnt doing it for killmails or loot in the first place, since he got everything he needs. He does it for the fun of it, for the style maybe even for the romantic implications. He engages his prey directly ship vs. ship, he ransoms his victim. He know the basic rules of honor and will never grief anybodys gaming experience. This type of prat is truly contributing to the game. The 2nd type is the wannabe prat, the blobber, the gate camper, the shuttle sniper - he has many names and most doesnt have much in common with honor and fairness. I dont want to bring in maturity because I know people who are 25+ and act like 12 but the age often plays a significant role. This kind of prat isnt looking for a good and challanging fight, he wants easy pray. He wants killmails, lots of 'em to support and grow his e-peen. He whines about haulers with stabs but uses 'em in his own ship. He's some kind of twisted, but best to be ignored. He's just anoying and ruins the game especially for newer players who dont understand the game mechanics, yet. /edit: the same goes for anti prats. Some have a very big mouth and smack talk about prats and how the pwn 'em, but when it comes to action they're gone and log off. And there are corps who dont do much advertise about being anti pirate but use alliance chat as intel source so everybody knows where prats hunting. And quite often a gang is formed and set course to an unexpected vistit. Most well organized corps have their home systems which they defend and pirates usually know this and stay out. From my experience, pirates come in 4 flavor: 1) The 'role player' pirate. These like the idea of having very few rules and bucking the system. 2) The 'action junkie (for eve anyway)'. Those that are simply looking for the most action possible. Being a pirate means everyone is a target, so piracy offers essentially the most action possible. No need to fly 20 jumps out of 'your' space to fight, it's everywhere. 3) The 'griefer', who just like to spread grief. Some are kiddies, some are grown men who are just wired that way. 4) Any combo of the above In my almost 3 years of piracy, I'd say 80-90% of pirates fall into category #2. They come from all walks of eve-life. - Alliance blobbers who get tired of lagfests or only engaging with 2:1 odds - New players to eve who are don't like the hours of boredome that eve contains and want action - Carebears who got fed up running from pirates and being scared - Old eve warhorses who got tired of politics and rules In the end who cares, in 0.0 pirates and alliances are the exact same thing anyway.....except pirates are at war with pretty much everyone instead of picking and chosing war targets. _______________________________________________
Nyabinghi Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.08.27 00:24:00 - [44] There are far more criminals in EVE than those combating them. One of the main reasons for this is that the game dynamics favors the criminal. To be a bounty hunter or otherwise try to enforce any sort of law and order, safety or justice in EVE is an uphill battle. Many have attempted a career as a bounty hunter only to find it unrewarding and pointless. Remember that the more people loose ingame the more time they gotta spend ingame recovering their lossess which I'm sure as CCP sees it means longer suscriptions and more money in the coffers. Your best bet is to join a Merc corp who leans a little more towards the good guys than the bad (but generally Mercs are in it for the money not morality). Another option is to join a large corp or alliance and fight piracy local to your corp or alliance's space.
Funkcikle Gallente The Funkstars Guild	Posted - 2006.08.27 01:02:00 - [45] I think pie-rats just tend to gob off more on the forum than anti's As a mostly anti-pirate I classify targets with great care, If its red and saying yarr i blow its head of, or failing that I explode at them. Very technical stuff, take years to learn Luv Funk
Funkcikle Gallente The Funkstars Guild	Posted - 2006.08.27 01:06:00 - [46] OH , n i do it solo now, all my minions died :/
Weix	Posted - 2006.08.27 09:56:00 - [47] "The 2nd type is the wannabe prat, the blobber, the gate camper, the shuttle sniper - he has many names and most doesnt have much in common with honor and fairness. I dont want to bring in maturity because I know people who are 25+ and act like 12 but the age often plays a significant role. This kind of prat isnt looking for a good and challanging fight, he wants easy pray. He wants killmails, lots of 'em to support and grow his e-peen. He whines about haulers with stabs but uses 'em in his own ship. He's some kind of twisted, but best to be ignored. He's just anoying and ruins the game especially for newer players who dont understand the game mechanics, yet." Thx Miss Storm, great way saying things. IMO 90% of current pirates fit your description.
Galan Amarias	Posted - 2006.08.27 23:36:00 - [48] Ok real quick, There are two types of Pirates and two types of Anti-pie, just two. Methodologys differ but they are not sufficient to merit a clasificafion. Pirate: Type 1: This guy is playing a game and has chosen the role of the agressor. To him it is just a game, he's not out to hurt the meat behind the keyboard, just playing a role. His actions can be defined by his honorable behavior, abiding by ransoms, sticking to 1v1 even when losing. Doing what he says and saying what he will do. Type 2: This player is just looking to kill things, any things they can get their hands on by any means necessary. They will make honorable statements but do not honor them, they smack in local, they act with a lack of maturity and poor self distance from the person they are and the person they are pretending to be online. Anti-Pirate: 1:This guy is playing a game and has chosen the role of the defender. To him it is just a game, he's not out to hurt the meat behind the keyboard, just playing a role. His actions can be defined by his honorable behavior, abiding by ransoms, sticking to 1v1 even when losing. Doing what he says and saying what he will do. Type 2: This player is just looking to kill things, any things they can get their hands on by any means necessary. They will make honorable statements but do not honor them, they smack in local, they act with a lack of maturity and poor self distance from the person they are and the person they are pretending to be online. Also a word on "all pirates are gankers" That is a load of bull and cheapens the word gank the same way as the statement "All men are rapists" cheapens the word rape. All PVP in EVE is consentual. The same way that all PVP in Battlefield is consentual. You might not want to get shot, but getting shot every now and then is part of the game. The tutorial and the new player help docs are pretty explict about this. Yes there are people who don't want to get shot, and yes there are ways for them to avoid it, really powerful ways that make Piracy the path to starvation for many. But the game tells you "You are never safe" unless you are docked in a NPC station. That's why you can always shoot at anyone anywhere. Consequences, not prevention. Save the term Gank for those type 2 puds war decing newbie corps and attacking T1 frigs and cruisers with T2 anything. They are the gankers. Pirates are just playing the role of advisary, and I bless them for it. Low sec would be dull as dirt without them. -Galan
Zafriel TunDraGon	Posted - 2006.08.28 00:15:00 - [49] blah blah blah....does it matter? Tbh most of the people on this forum are full of ****. I ♥ Tenacha Khan
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.08.28 00:25:00 - [50] Anti piracy died with the game mechanics. Simple fact is, the game isn't geared towards fighting nasty types in empire. Sure you can do it but it gets boring... Fast. If theres a concerted effort to remove a 'pirate' corporation from an area of space then they go. Remember that it's not usuaully in their interests to hang about* and fight. *Not absolute of course, some 'pirate' corps enjoy the fighting more than the looting.
MonwrathDisortium Incarnation of Evil	Posted - 2006.08.28 04:05:00 - [51] Originally by: Zafriel blah blah blah....does it matter? Tbh most of the people on this forum are full of ****. eloquent and superbly stated. I am a pirate, I greif, I am in it for the killmails. Stabs are for travelling long distances and miners. I will kill anyone I can in any way I can. Anti-pirates on the other hand are mostly a joke. This is my main BTW.
Kaleeb Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.08.28 09:22:00 - [52] Agree welsh its just not worth the time to hunt pirates and tbh there are very very few that will actually fight. If this ever changed i`m sure you would see some more celes in empire Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when backdoor bandit is in local
Raven LeSage	Posted - 2006.08.28 10:51:00 - [53] Edited by: Raven LeSage on 28/08/2006 10:51:58 Well a question from a newbie. :) Pirates make money from stealing and ransoming other players. So how do anti-pirates (bounty hunters?) make money? Oh and Kaleeb, is that BoB from Marathon? :)
Kaleeb Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.08.28 11:08:00 - [54] bob from marathon? wtf I have no idea what your talking about i`m afraid Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when backdoor bandit is in local
Raven LeSage	Posted - 2006.08.28 11:14:00 - [55] Ah my bad. Some time ago there was a FPS called Marathon (a series accualy) and it had NPCs called BOB running around so I thought you meant them. :))
Arkuis	Posted - 2006.08.28 18:48:00 - [56] There are some really good anti-prirate tactics around. Our corp uses three that have proven to be highly effective. What they are I am afraid I am not going to tell, as that will make it harder for us to kill prats. Although I will say this, we like to go fishing. The reward in killing prats is not monetary, you can make some cash selling their stuff and off bounties but that is not the real reward in killing them. The real reward is the act of killing them and that warm fuzzy feeling you get inside of you when you recieve hate mail from some one with a -10 sec status with a 5mil bounty who forgot to upgrade his clone before you and your mates popped him. Being an anti-pirate can be very rewarding but you need to be paicient, organised and have a good team to back you up. Team work is so important, it is foolhardy to go hunting by our self without a plan. All the prats that you can kill will run away, prats are better at that then any thing else in this world, and the ones you cant kill will.... well, kill you.
War Drumb	Posted - 2006.08.28 22:47:00 - [57] Originally by: Arkuis There are some really good anti-prirate tactics around. Our corp uses three that have proven to be highly effective. What they are I am afraid I am not going to tell, as that will make it harder for us to kill prats. Although I will say this, we like to go fishing. The reward in killing prats is not monetary, you can make some cash selling their stuff and off bounties but that is not the real reward in killing them. The real reward is the act of killing them and that warm fuzzy feeling you get inside of you when you recieve hate mail from some one with a -10 sec status with a 5mil bounty who forgot to upgrade his clone before you and your mates popped him. Being an anti-pirate can be very rewarding but you need to be paicient, organised and have a good team to back you up. Team work is so important, it is foolhardy to go hunting by our self without a plan. All the prats that you can kill will run away, prats are better at that then any thing else in this world, and the ones you cant kill will.... well, kill you. Well said....The skill is in pirate hunting. A few words of advice; just because there BIO says Anti Pirate does not mean they will not try to pop you in their battle cruiser when you come in your Harpy. ItÆs really as simple as this.... Thugs kill everyone including other thugs (There is no honor amongst thieves... unless they can gain advantage from it) Pirate hunters kill only the evil ones. The rest are mobs and as we all know, if you listen to fools... the mob rules.... Don't fret precious I'm here, step away from the window... Go back to sleep... Lay your head down child I won't let the boogeyman come, Counting bodies like sheep To the rhythm of the war drums
Kaleeb Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.08.28 23:44:00 - [58] Shame alts arent banned on this forum as well, some people talk absolute rubbish Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when backdoor bandit is in local
War Drumb	Posted - 2006.08.29 04:40:00 - [59] Edited by: War Drumb on 29/08/2006 04:40:37 Originally by: Kaleeb Shame alts arent banned on this forum as well, some people talk absolute rubbish And what makes you think talking with a main would stop them from talking rubbish?? =) Don't fret precious I'm here, step away from the window... Go back to sleep... Lay your head down child I won't let the boogeyman come, Counting bodies like sheep To the rhythm of the war drums
Garmon	Posted - 2006.08.29 04:45:00 - [60] Edited by: Garmon on 29/08/2006 04:45:09 Most anti pirates are pretty experienced players, but ran into some noobs anti pirates other day at a gate in my stabber, typhoon,cyclone,brutix,wolf, and caracal, killed the brutix + cyclone before the phoon finished me off

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