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bookmarks/itemIDs/db keys and a sinister plan... <3 for DEVS!

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Weirda Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.08.24 21:59:00 - [31] Edited by: Weirda on 24/08/2006 21:59:36 Originally by: kieron I always get a kick out of Weirda's posts. Forwarding this one to the guys for a look. thank you Kieron! maybe (when he less busy) Valar can clear up Weirda understanding of ItemIDs (and whether or not bookmark hold them hostage), because #2 wouldn't be necessary (obviously) if they were not using ItemID... Arguable #3 would then be unnecessary - but would still love to have Pilot's Bookmarks blown away if they leave EvE too long anyways... __ Weirda Join QOTSA Now
Virida Mindstar Technology United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2006.08.24 22:04:00 - [32] Hmm. im not shure if it erase the load on the server, since it still mean you get floating point numbers copied across that corp. On the other hand, it MAY help, if the problem is, the pure NUMBERS server side.
Weirda Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.08.24 22:10:00 - [33] Edited by: Weirda on 24/08/2006 22:12:14 Originally by: Virida Hmm. im not shure if it erase the load on the server, since it still mean you get floating point numbers copied across that corp. On the other hand, it MAY help, if the problem is, the pure NUMBERS server side. the BM's would be then associated only to CorpID or AllianceID (no longer a player)... so one association could serve everyone in corp (rather then one entire set AND association per Pilot), or even everyone in Alliance. Of course that is for DEV to figure out, Weirda probably totally off base about how they do things, but assume that they have highly normalized DB... BTW - nice Hairstyle (for a caldari?)... __ Weirda Join QOTSA Now
Ozmodan Minmatar Storm Industries	Posted - 2006.08.24 22:19:00 - [34] I like all three ideas. Keep number 3 at 30 days, 90 gives them far too much leeway. Learners permit still current
d'hofren Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.08.24 22:30:00 - [35] groovy,
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2006.08.24 22:37:00 - [36] Sooooo warp to 0km for everyone in a corp, but not everyone in game lol. How about simply make warp to 0km and cut everyones BM to a max of 100. Far simpler and adresses the fix for everyone. Not sure why corps should be the only ones who can easily travel 0km to a gate. Unless your suggesting everyone else keeps thier BM's as well, which really doesnt decrease the amount of BM's by alot imho, instead your just creating more. Who is gonna delete thier BM's knowing that if they leave a corp they will then be BM less? I think deleting inactive account BM's is a great temporary solution to buy some time.
Dekiri Useless Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.24 22:42:00 - [37] Wouldn't that also mean that instead of copying bookmarks and create a new item ID for them that you could have a bookmark as one ID stored elsewhere and have instead of the actual bookmarks with single item ID's a list of links to the bookmarks? You could of course not modify copied bookmarks anymore, but that is not really needed or is it? That way copying would not be copying bookmarks anymore, but rather giving out a "accesslist" to certain items somewher ein the database? I hope i understood that properly =) -------------- My dad can beat up your dad! Support lowsec!
Weirda Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.08.24 22:44:00 - [38] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Sooooo warp to 0km for everyone in a corp, but not everyone in game lol. no no - by allowing shared corp/alliance bm's - you eliminate need for so many copies. not proposing change to bm's themselves (that is for the other threads)... ppl still have em. Quote: I think deleting inactive account BM's is a great temporary solution to buy some time. __ Weirda Join QOTSA Now
Sorja E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.08.24 22:49:00 - [39] I'm not sure whether this would solve anything. First off, many corps won't do this for many reasons (too lazy, don't have complete sets, can't manage the process properly, you name it). Second off, many players will still hang to their own bookmarks. For many reasons too, like what if I leave the corp, or my BMs are better than the corp, or too small corps, you name it. Third off: get rid of BMs around gates all together, much simpler, much more effective, much less hassle. It's the whole concept of travel and bookmarking that needs a revamp, not the consequences of the workarounds to a cumbersome navigation system. ____________________ Darko1107 > does anything in ascn space have tech II fittings? Quillan Rage > Iron ships
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.08.24 23:05:00 - [40] I vote you charge 10k/jump/month to have an insta. It'd be a station service, you buy a contract for "improved gate navigation signals" or something. Instead of an insta you get a warp to 0 option, but your autopilot will still default to 15km. This way you still have to plan for your trips, you have to think about whether its worth it to pay for everything in eve, and all that would have to be in the database would be a bit for each region saying whether you have that region's "bookmarks" or not. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Spaja Saist Gallente Isotope Industries	Posted - 2006.08.24 23:09:00 - [41] This is a stupid idea. Just get rid of the damn things. Warp to 0 is the best fix. Why the DEVs won't do it is beyond me. They must all be griefers who are afraid of loosing easy ganks.
RoMUF	Posted - 2006.08.24 23:12:00 - [42] This may actually be the best idea ever.. it's so simple but has no downsides.. except if you have a spy.. that could give away all the safespots.. and ppl with bad named bookmarks.. Could limit the number of personal bm's to 20 or so for safespots..
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.08.24 23:15:00 - [43] Originally by: RoMUF Could limit the number of personal bm's to 20 or so for safespots.. I use more than 20 bookmarks for allied towers! --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Ysolde Xen Minmatar Liberal Trading Co Electus Matari	Posted - 2006.08.24 23:39:00 - [44] I can see a problem with 1) stemming from people's concerns over bitter revenge and whatnot. If Alliances dissolve or a Director with a grudge deletes the Corp BMs, everyone would be screwed so in order to prevent this they might just copy all the BMs for personal use anyway and you'd still have the massive copy loading ----- It's not a crap ship, you're just flying it all wrong.
TheMoog Caldari 3240 Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.25 02:00:00 - [45] How about "Warp to 0km" instead ? Less trouble for everyone, especially Valar
Riddari Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.25 02:53:00 - [46] Originally by: Weirda 1) make 'corp' bookmarks, or even 'alliance' bookmarks. once they are copied in there, they are available to people in that corp or alliance, but they cannot be 'copied' from there (only removed). this would be great because then member wouldn't have to make so many set of the exact same ones... and for other reasons great because when player x is booted from you corp, they no longer have you bms. They would just be in a corp/alliance folder in you bm list (like agent ones)... I suggested this many many months ago. CCP answer: "we don't want to make it too easy for the players". ¼+¼ a history
Engelious Angelion Minmatar Liberty Rogues Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2006.08.25 03:11:00 - [47] SIGND IN FULL WHATS ORIGINAL POST SAID"&
Xrak Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.25 03:24:00 - [48] To all the people asking about safespots. Obviously, you wouldnt have corp safespots, just instas for traveling and docking. Use personal BM's for safes.
Weirda Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.08.25 03:35:00 - [49] Originally by: Spaja Saist This is a stupid idea. Just get rid of the damn things. Warp to 0 is the best fix. Why the DEVs won't do it is beyond me. They must all be griefers who are afraid of loosing easy ganks. ahhh - and Weirda is reminded why don't really bother reading/posting eve-o anymore... thanks to forum griefers like you. would rather get ganked 100 time then have to read **** like this every day. kudos to the input. very well thought out. __ Weirda Join QOTSA Now
Runt Mcgoire Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.25 03:53:00 - [50] Originally by: Weirda Edited by: Weirda on 24/08/2006 01:43:44 Weirda have been weeping at night for poor Valar and all the CCP dev that pore over ways to keep the DB (and health of TQ in general) fit while we do our best to undermine them... Got some idea for bookmarks... poor guys have prolly had at least some of these ideas a long time ago, but figured that they were going to make them go away eventually, so didn't want to spend any time on them... now they spend sleepless nights and longer downtimes to try to 'make space' for new items... anyhow. 1) make 'corp' bookmarks, or even 'alliance' bookmarks. once they are copied in there, they are available to people in that corp or alliance, but they cannot be 'copied' from there (only removed). this would be great because then member wouldn't have to make so many set of the exact same ones... and for other reasons great because when player x is booted from you corp, they no longer have you bms. They would just be in a corp/alliance folder in you bm list (like agent ones)... 2) make bookmark not even 'items' so that they don't suck up all the ids in that table 3) (and best yet) from a corpmate of Weirda (Sidiion)... this one pleasures Weirda a great deal and should make Hammer, Oveur and the rest of them climb to the roof and scream "BOOBIES"... you ready? thought you were... "If you inactive for more then 30 days (account not paid), they delete your bookmarks". OUALA! They need that space and you ain't paying for it... so sorry... Of course they could do away with them alltogether and create other option for insta-travel... but will leave that to (all the other) threads.... Does Weirda hear a "SIGNED" to 1, two or 3? Best idea yet! This is a great Idea. Will eliminate dupes, provides for 0KM access in your territory, reduces load on serveur, permits ganking of intruders. mmm, Maybe not, Ppl will copy corp BM (and SS ones in case they get dumped), and spies will have a field day. That would be bad. Bad idea, would not reduce serveur load at all, would instead provide for an easy way to amass massive amounts of BMs. What about all the NPC corps? Do they also get BMs? why are you singling them? Are they but sheep for slaugther? Na, terrible idea... Boo boo, worst idea yet! (written in a drunken stupor, after listening to one too many froggy song... :)
Yaevep Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.08.25 04:20:00 - [51] I like the idea, but you also have to take lag under consideration. I haven't checked the Dragon client but with the old one if you had a lot of bookmarks the client froze for quite a while (30+ secs in case of 20k bms here) while opening P&P->Places and/or creating a bookmark in space. Right now you have an option... be the bookmaster and live with the lag or don't have 20k bms. If they decide to implement this idea, they better make sure the client wont freeze up on opening P&P since alliance/corp wide BM collections are definately gonna be huge. Maybe they could just remove them from P&P and let only CEO/Exec Corp edit them... dunno, but I like the idea ;)
Weirda Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.08.25 04:31:00 - [52] the idea would be that you CANT copy the corp/alliance BMs. and they wouldn't be in you people/places either. __ Weirda Join QOTSA Now
31i73 BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.25 05:14:00 - [53] I love the first idea. It would make the game better, and remove a huge operation of copying BMs everytime a new member comes along. (or a corp).
xeom Veto.	Posted - 2006.08.25 05:38:00 - [54] <3 weirda ever sence the AF thread. All these suggestions are great! CCP where are our t2 shield power relays?
Oedus Caro	Posted - 2006.08.25 06:52:00 - [55] That's actually some damned good thinking, I like.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.25 07:19:00 - [56] I like Weirda's idea but I have my doubts. What will happen to players with many BMs when they leave corp to a NPC corp or switch corp, etc.? Are solo players supposed to form a one person corp after this fix? IMHO the ultimate solution is to get rid of BMs. Whatever suggestion for now is a temporary fix and possibly a waste of resources to implement. --------- In the blindness, a streak fiery thread violently cuts the horizon. Bleeding golden mists, engulfing the blindness from within. Burning the darkness. The touch of dawn.
spurious signal Caldari Brainiacs	Posted - 2006.08.25 07:23:00 - [57] I had exactly the same idea last night Wierda, didn't see yours before posting it Needless to say I think it's a great idea You could restrict corps BMs the same way that corp hangars are restricted now so that sociopaths couldn't mess with them. I think instead of deleting inactive players BMs they should just limit ALL personal, non-corp BMs to 100-200 per person. And make it so the NPC corps don't get corp BMs ofc, more incentive to boost people out of the NPC corps.
nmwone Caldari Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.08.25 07:47:00 - [58] Though I favor the removal of instas and keeping the 15km warp ins (holding thumbs still), this is the secondary choice. However it should come with and enforce restrictions on bookmarks in general. Trying to fix as much of the problems as possible and still retain a bit of the advantage instas has. None and no corp/alliance in eve should have the advantage of instas in every random region. Let a corp/alliance have a maximum of ~2000 bookmarks. 2000 should be enough to cover what they need, and no corp/alliance should "need" every gate to every gate in entire eve. The option of copying in these bookmarks should not be there. They should be made from scratch, creating a real profession for making instas instead of the current. A corporate/alliance role should be created for this process so task can be delegated. Put a 500 boomkark limit on pilots, leaving them with enough for their safes and minor specific instas. Most pilots have more then 500 bookmarks today. It makes it so if that pilot wants to create new bookmarks, he/she has to strip down his bookmark library to below 500 before he has that option. If it's possible, remove the ability to bookmark storage (cans/shuttles) and make copying only doable by that evemail feature that's not yet fully implemented. Make those bookmarks sent by evemail expire after 24h. The limit on number of bookmarks should be there to make each corp and individual think twice about which bookmarks should be kept around. In a way it makes eve become bigger. It makes people in their "home space" having an advantage. It forces the delegation of an amount of bookmarks to become attack bookmarks, where you actually have to go to enemies space and do some work before you will have the insta advantage there. It makes it so alliances claiming a bit less space has another benefit over those claiming a lot. This is under the assumption that alliances would want a lot of bookmarks where they live. Oveur once said that anyone trying to forsee what a change will bring to eve is ignorant. I don't know how this would shape the landscape of eve but it creates a process for insta annihilation. There doesnt seem to be a "one change" that can fix the problems entirely. Lets see how people adapt to this.
Alupigus1 Delta team Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.25 08:03:00 - [59] Edited by: Alupigus1 on 25/08/2006 08:04:00 Originally by: Weirda Edited by: Weirda on 24/08/2006 01:43:44 1) make 'corp' bookmarks, or even 'alliance' bookmarks. As everybody knows there are 2 kinds of bookmarks: travelling bm's and tactical bm's. Forcing an entire corp to share same bm's will screw you badly. One single spy and there is no place to go. For an entire alliance? My god... Travelling bm's (gate to gate, gate to station, etc) can be shared, no problem there.. A 0/10 from me for any other type.
Thintalle The Explorer Corps	Posted - 2006.08.25 08:06:00 - [60] I like the "Corp-BMs". Great idea. You should be able to set access rights for every "BM-Set", too, if there are some sets that should not be avaible for everyone in the corp.

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