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Zeus
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Posted - 2003.10.17 00:16:00 -
[1]
I've given the current cloaking device set up some serious thought and testing and I’ve basically concluded in its current state it holds no useful application other than eye candy.
Lets start a basic run down of Pro's Vs Cons:
Pro's
-People can’t see you on screen, you are completely invisible to the main view in space.
-People can’t target you while you are cloaked.
Con's
-In using the device you strip all your shields.
-You Loss all but 10% of your cap.
-You are reduced to a fraction of your starting speed (Though this is a trainable attribute)
-You loss the ability to activate modules.
-You loss the ability to target.
-You loss the ability to warp.
-People can still see you on scanner.
-There is a short period while uncloaking where you are vulnerable and cannot target.
-You need to use a high slot.
-You cannot cloak when you are target or being targeted or within 1500m from anything e.g. station or player/npc.
Well, anyone can see the Pro's list is far shorter than the Con's list but for the benefit of the doubt I did some testing.
The cap drain renders laser and hybrid weapons useless, so it’s not even worth mounting them. In my tests I used missiles and in this scenario I waited around a station for a quarry to appear, in this case he was not looking for me on purpose. Uncloaking at my desired distance but he achieved target lock first firing at me a few times before I could start launching my missiles (This was cruiser combat) seeing me he immediately started heading towards me firing, to get into his optimal. Obviously I'm starting of with a disadvantage since I have no shields and am already into armour were he has shields and a booster. Using ECM modules in order to hide I have to break his lock. Now depending on the circumstances and what your using doing this negates the purpose for me cloaking since I wouldn’t really need to hide but none the less in order to use the cloaking device I have to be in a winning position. So he gets to close I hide and put distance between us and start again, by then his shields are back up. He has sustained a little damage were I am about 45% armour left. The result is clear, I am in no better position in using the cloaking device than without it. In fact I am at a disadvantage for using it because I have no shields.
The 2nd scenario came as abit of a shock, I asked my quarry to try and find me using the scanner and this point I was talking about the other scanner at the bottom left next to auto pilot. But he actually used the bottom right scanner and found me instantly setting me to approach now I am unable to run AND HIDE this means if a person knows I am there he can find me so easily and I can do nothing not even run while he brings me into range or comes to park his ship within 1500m of me.
Now I ask you what is the point of cloaking under these conditions? Using it makes you clearly the underdog and your not even hidden from your enemy!
Suggestions
There needs to be a price to cloaking, and I believe the speed shield loss is acceptable. The Cap is abit severe though I think it should be reduced or given the ability to reduce it with skill. But the current module and targeting restrictions are making the cloaking device useless. Its true you can’t be allowed to fire or perform actions on a target while cloaked at this moment in time. Perhaps later you can with some kind of advanced thing or ship but not now same goes for warping while cloaked. But in order for cloaking to work you must be able to target a enemy to have some kind of advantage for using the cloak and be able reduce that cap drain otherwise the device will not get used and will be another useless item like the energy vampires currently. Another thing needs to be the scanner, the cloak needs to hide people from the scanner since its enough people will be able to see you cloaking you cant expect them to be able to then see you moving on the scanner? What’s the point! But the possibility for some kind of future cloak hunting skills or devices are welcome :)
Heres to hoping this will get read and taken on board 
Zeus Signing off
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Zeus
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Posted - 2003.10.17 00:30:00 -
[2]
I forgot to add this is the time when passive targeting modules become useful since they have always been useless before, same for ship scanners etc. Half the use of the cloaking device is to spy on people after all with them not even knowing it. The Other half is surprise attacks.
Now I’m really signing off 
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Zeus
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Posted - 2003.10.17 21:37:00 -
[3]
There is still no point in adding a item that is utterly useless by the off chance it will become better later
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Zeus
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Posted - 2003.10.18 14:44:00 -
[4]
Another point I'd like to bring up is the inability to cloak when you are being targeted by a player or npc. This also makes the cloak abit useless. Since cloaking is also basically used to hide under extreme circumstances you will never be able to cloak again in a battle until you've won. It is true though that being able to break a lock of a player by cloaking without some counter is abit unfair. Once again I see the possibility for skill or module content here! *HINT*
Another sticky issue is cloaking while targeting something your self, you have to manually unlock your target first instead of it being done for you when you simply click cloak. These simple mouse clicks and seconds can mean life or death in a battle.
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Zeus
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Posted - 2003.10.19 01:40:00 -
[5]
It takes time to decloak and you cant target right away currently. I'm sure ccp can add a small delay of afew seconds like this before you can activate modules and such but not to long. If you get cought after that its your fault for being asleep on the job.
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Zeus
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Posted - 2003.10.22 18:47:00 -
[6]
I always seem to worry when people say things shouldn’t be in the game because pirates can do this, pirates could do that. It’s often said by the people who either don’t want to fight (and want a easy ride) or have little game experience to understand the mechanics of combat.
It is encouraging to here we all agree to the need for enhanced stealth in the way the device works. But when we come to the sticky issue of combat people seem to be always addressing the issue from the pilot seat of an industrial ship. Rather than actually modes of combat its self.
As said before what generally are the uses of a cloaking device and what “Can” it offer to the game in content and combat that cannot already be done in some form?
Well it allows you to make tactical options from a position of stealth. So ok if say for example the wish’s of the board with regards to the appearance in local and the scanner get heard (which I agree to in a sense) and you are now Completely invisible and no one can know your there. Assuming all the other options are the same lets see what we can do. Since we all seem to be worried about gate camping -_- and were all in frail industrials -_- and we are in fact in 0.0 space -_- lets imagine a situation. Your there camping your happy ass of at a star gate in your Dominix lets say. Your cloaked and can give it as good as you can take it just minus your shields. Then comes your prey, an industrial flying alone quite happily with its teddy bears and “I love the world” stickers in its rear window. You are ready so you de-cloak, now here comes the uncertain part, is he or is he not paying attention. Well as much as I care what happens to a afk indy pilot in 0.0 space I don’t. So lets count up the seconds before the Dominix can fire. 3 Seconds no target time on de-cloak now without and sensor booster you have to add a further 8 without add 2 to 4 depending how many he has equipped. So lets make that 5-6 seconds before anything bad can happen. Anyone with Half a brain would have left by then. So shall we ask our self’s. Why did I bother cloaking :/
Now lets turn the tables, you’re an experienced battleship pilot waiting around a gate for a pirate that has been reported in the area to be around. Not only is he packing a mean set off guns he’s also padded out his mid slots with some useful items that make your life not worth living. You are waiting at a gate, your cloaked in say a Dominix like before while he is in an Armageddon. He is kitted out to attack and would probably engage you regardless of your cloak so If we follow the same chain of events as before your lock time is 6 seconds and his is 4, your minus your shields most of your cap and could probably be target jammed before you could even do so if he was equipped correctly and in another ship. How are you going to win the situation while retaining the cloak as a useful item? Well they only way I can see it working is if you can lock the target passively before you de-cloak. It’s the only way you have a possibility of winning a fight or if you can cloak while your targeted. Then it becomes a means of retreat and a means of attack otherwise it’s a useless item that makes someone jump in the seat for a brief period while they click warp. So once again why use it :/
I’d like to address the people who seem to think being a pirate and cheating come hand in hand. Piracy is part of the game and “should” be a viable but somewhat risky practise. True though many of the pirates to date have lacked in the common sense and courtesy department but there will always be some like that. So it stands to reason why there are not many in the game to begin with, perhaps because there’s no practical way of doing it currently but I will not get into that since it is not my concern. But I get the impression people would like methods of piracy to just go away completely. I usually try not to be judgemental in such things but these people just have no clue what so ever. Methods of piracy are methods of combat. By trying to make piracy go away you are simply making combat in it self go away and this seems very much to be a pvp game to me. Rather than saying “ Oh n000z don’t do that the pirates will ownz0r me” say “cool!! If we can do that then new possibilities for game are endless!”.
So can we test this item and try to give suggestions to make it useful, rather than “Safe” It is not meant to be safe. It’s a tactical weapon of war and in the wrong hands is supposed to be dangerous.
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Zeus
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Posted - 2003.10.23 14:14:00 -
[7]
If you think about it using a normal lock methods means you are actively pinging your target or what ever and people can see that there being targeted by the electromagnetic mess that’s coming towards them. It would be probably better that you can only lock with a mid slot module activated that can achieve lock passively while cutting through interference from the cloak. This uses up a mid slot that people are so worried about also.
Besides arnt you supposed to be hidden, it would be a big give away if you were targetted and no one was around :]
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Zeus
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Posted - 2003.10.23 16:59:00 -
[8]
 Quote:
Zeus
have you personal test cloak in chaos?
1/3 the things you say are wrone....
please test them
i will do the happy caerbear in my Megathron :P
on more time... when you cloak you lose ALL your sheild and all your capasity ok?
if you uncloak you can warp in 0.2 sec my friend 20000 km away and you cant warp to me... (with out the new scaner)
jump from stargate in 0.5 sec :P
with out the scaners to look for cloak people all we say are crap...
+ the new system scaner they are making
+ how in the hell with 0 capasite slowly recharging you are going to kill the indy or pirate? with 4 capasity bousters?
cloak IS NOT for fighting is tackical weapon
im my BS with 7 over drive i go 450 m/sec
with cloak on i go 65 m/sec
with cloak you cant warp you cant lock
you cant use enything because you have 0 capasity
only the low slot is working and 2-3 stuff that dont need capasity...
GO and test is before you speak
*****Reading CT BadIronTree's Post Standby******
****Translating****
Well.. I tried to find some part of his post that actually talked about something I said being wrong but alas I could not find anything. You spoke truth's of wrap times etc. Yes you can warp quickly and jump quickly. But why am I going to sit around at a gate to wait for someone just so I can warp away from them when they come?
And my friend you are actually wrong, you will notice that your capacitor bars are blacked out but 10% is still there just unusable. So my friend you are in fact wrong. Its not the fact you have no capacitor to do anything its that the game gives you error msg's saying your not allowed to do those things.
So Yes I have tested it but unlike you it seems I have actual combat experience in fighting people who fight back in 0.0 space. You only seem to know how to ran away :)
But this forum is not for those thing so lets stay on topic plz
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Zeus
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Posted - 2003.10.23 17:39:00 -
[9]
Seems the Atrributes shows -100% cap now but what I said was true before. Regardless this change has called into question even the basic use.
And they have fixed the approach bug using scanner.
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