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Just watched Interstellar...

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Norian Lonark Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance 143	Posted - 2014.11.11 18:03:32 - [31] - Quote RoAnnon wrote: Saw it this afternoon, 9/10. If you get the chance to see it on IMAX, pay the extra and do so, it's well worth it. I saw it in IMAX too I really enjoyed the movie thought the story and visuals were great but the soundtrack was horrid... in IMAX it was actually pain inducing . Start wide, expand further, and never look back
Karl Jerr Herzack Unit 53	Posted - 2014.11.11 18:16:37 - [32] - Quote I put this movie at the same level than Sunshine: too much drama, too much implausible things (out of the wormhole).
Velarra 327	Posted - 2014.11.11 18:23:40 - [33] - Quote Alpheias wrote: Titus Marrs wrote: It's at least better than Gravity? Yes, the shots from space were spectacular. However, IMO, the story was very weak. I'm hoping Interstellar has some hard sci fi aspects and better story to tell. Nope and nope. If you want hard sci-fi, I recommend Leviathan Wakes by James S. A. Corey. How did you feel about 2004's "Primer" ?
Akirei Scytale Okami Syndicate 3463	Posted - 2014.11.11 22:12:34 - [34] - Quote Charlie Nonoke wrote: It was excellent, but hardly the film of the year. Don't expect too much, especially after all the things EVE has taught you. I watched it with a physics graduate student and the only things she snickered at were gravity moving through time and the love as a coordinate system in time and space bit. Otherwise an extremely solid movie. The science, surprisingly, stands up (generally).
Alpheias Euphoria Released Triumvirate. 7437	Posted - 2014.11.12 12:57:01 - [35] - Quote Velarra wrote: Alpheias wrote: Titus Marrs wrote: It's at least better than Gravity? Yes, the shots from space were spectacular. However, IMO, the story was very weak. I'm hoping Interstellar has some hard sci fi aspects and better story to tell. Nope and nope. If you want hard sci-fi, I recommend Leviathan Wakes by James S. A. Corey. How did you feel about 2004's "Primer" ? I have actually not seen it. Reading about it though. Allow me to be frank. You will not like me. You will not like me now, and you will not like men++ a good deal less as we go on.
Akirei Scytale Okami Syndicate 3464	Posted - 2014.11.12 15:13:10 - [36] - Quote Alpheias wrote: Velarra wrote: Alpheias wrote: Titus Marrs wrote: It's at least better than Gravity? Yes, the shots from space were spectacular. However, IMO, the story was very weak. I'm hoping Interstellar has some hard sci fi aspects and better story to tell. Nope and nope. If you want hard sci-fi, I recommend Leviathan Wakes by James S. A. Corey. How did you feel about 2004's "Primer" ? I have actually not seen it. Reading about it though. It's the only time travel movie that tries to be accurate, and as a result, is completely incomprehensible. Once you think you have it figured out, you watch it again and realize you missed an entire layer of unseen events. Definitely worth the watch.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 1899	Posted - 2014.11.13 12:20:47 - [37] - Quote Akirei Scytale wrote: I watched it with a physics graduate student and the only things she snickered at were gravity moving through time and the love as a coordinate system in time and space bit. Otherwise an extremely solid movie. The science, surprisingly, stands up (generally). PS: I really hope EVE hasn't taught you anything about space because it simulates a universe of molasses. Actually gravity-driven time dilation is very real, and the scale they used was about right for being right on the cusp of the black hole. The whole system acted like some sort of bizarre patched-conics setup in which the time dilation was extremely different in areas at similar altitudes but otherwise it didn't horrify me too much. What made me twitch was his total disregard for the amount of delta-V they would have needed to make such drastic orbital changes in such close proximity to a black hole. And the rest of the film pretty much demonstrated a complete absence of any understanding at all of orbital mechanics. You can't park a ship over a Black Hole. If your altitude is stable at something like 7x the radius of the event horizon (that's what it looked like in the movie) then that is because you are orbiting it at about 1/64th the speed of light--if my simple estimate is giving a semi-accurate ballpark figure here. That's something like 5,000 km/s. (compare to Earth orbit at 8 km/s) Even to merely divert your heading into the event horizon for a full-speed entry, you'd need at minimum something like 4,000 km/s of delta-V, and even then only if you have enough thrust to do all of the accelerating in the time span of under 1/8th of an orbit. If we assume a small black hole with event horizon about the size of the Earth, that's an orbit of about 300,000km, so 1/8th is about 40,000km. So you have about 8 seconds to pump out 4,000 km/s of delta-V, which would produce a G-force of something like 50,000 Gs. Now that's all calculated with Euclidean physics. If we throw in relativistic effects, you end up with even larger amounts of delta-V required. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) "What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
Akirei Scytale Okami Syndicate 3470	Posted - 2014.11.13 12:38:41 - [38] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Akirei Scytale wrote: I watched it with a physics graduate student and the only things she snickered at were gravity moving through time and the love as a coordinate system in time and space bit. Otherwise an extremely solid movie. The science, surprisingly, stands up (generally). PS: I really hope EVE hasn't taught you anything about space because it simulates a universe of molasses. Actually gravity-driven time dilation is very real, and the scale they used was about right for being right on the cusp of the black hole. The whole system acted like some sort of bizarre patched-conics setup in which the time dilation was extremely different in areas at similar altitudes but otherwise it didn't horrify me too much. What made me twitch was his total disregard for the amount of delta-V they would have needed to make such drastic orbital changes in such close proximity to a black hole. And the rest of the film pretty much demonstrated a complete absence of any understanding at all of orbital mechanics. You can't park a ship over a Black Hole. If your altitude is stable at something like 7x the radius of the event horizon (that's what it looked like in the movie) then that is because you are orbiting it at about 1/64th the speed of light--if my simple estimate is giving a semi-accurate ballpark figure here. That's something like 5,000 km/s. (compare to Earth orbit at 8 km/s) Even to merely divert your heading into the event horizon for a full-speed entry, you'd need at minimum something like 4,000 km/s of delta-V, and even then only if you have enough thrust to do all of the accelerating in the time span of under 1/8th of an orbit. If we assume a small black hole with event horizon about the size of the Earth, that's an orbit of about 300,000km, so 1/8th is about 40,000km. So you have about 8 seconds to pump out 4,000 km/s of delta-V, which would produce a G-force of something like 50,000 Gs. Now that's all calculated with Euclidean physics. If we throw in relativistic effects, you end up with even larger amounts of delta-V required. Not the time dilation. I assure you we were both very familiar with the concept. I'm talking about the main character literally sending gravity waves back in time. I definitely commented on their supremely efficient thrusters, and apparent ability to ignore the effects of thruster placement on the actual thrust vector (ie the off-center docking with a damaged ship and then firing asymmetric thrusters without spinning in another axis). Also, they weren't hovering over it, I assume you're referring to the scene where they took a wider orbit over the first planet. Perfectly plausible and a perfect waste of fuel, it isn't a natural orbit that they try to make. Nothing unrealistic about it except the ship maintaining it on autopilot for 23 years. That is... a lot of fuel. You also either drastically underestimated the scale of the black hole or overestimated the ship, they definitely weren't that close.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 1900	Posted - 2014.11.13 12:52:42 - [39] - Quote Akirei Scytale wrote: Also, they weren't hovering over it, I assume you're referring to the scene where they took a wider orbit over the first planet. Perfectly plausible and a perfect waste of fuel, it isn't a natural orbit that they try to make. Nothing unrealistic about it except the ship maintaining it on autopilot for 23 years. That is... a lot of fuel. You also either drastically underestimated the scale of the black hole or overestimated the ship, they definitely weren't that close. Oh, and I can tell you play Kerbal Space Program, because the Delta V required to escape Kerbol is 4,500. Earth requires ~9000. That's why fuel is twice as dense in KSP. They treated orbital mechanics like they were hovering the whole time. They seem to think they can travel short distances easily while near a black hole, ignoring the incredible orbital velocity they must have been going. They would have had an orbit time of a few minutes at most, meaning any extended thrust sequence would just get evened out because they would keep moving to a different part of the orbit. This would force them to make the most inefficient Hohmann transfers to get anywhere--the equivalent fuel usage of increasing or decreasing your orbital altitude in tiny increments, then waiting till you get to the other side to circularize before continuing. This multiplies the already incredible delta-V requirements for making any significant plane changes in such an orbit. Now if they were in a stable orbit there wouldn't be much fuel cost to maintain it. Orbits really maintain themselves. But hovering over a black hole for 23 years would cost a lot of fuel. Yes I do play KSP. I learned far more about orbital mechanics from KSP than I had in the rest of my life's studies combined. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) "What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
Akirei Scytale Okami Syndicate 3470	Posted - 2014.11.13 13:11:18 - [40] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Akirei Scytale wrote: Also, they weren't hovering over it, I assume you're referring to the scene where they took a wider orbit over the first planet. Perfectly plausible and a perfect waste of fuel, it isn't a natural orbit that they try to make. Nothing unrealistic about it except the ship maintaining it on autopilot for 23 years. That is... a lot of fuel. You also either drastically underestimated the scale of the black hole or overestimated the ship, they definitely weren't that close. Oh, and I can tell you play Kerbal Space Program, because the Delta V required to escape Kerbol is 4,500. Earth requires ~9000. That's why fuel is twice as dense in KSP. They treated orbital mechanics like they were hovering the whole time. They seem to think they can travel short distances easily while near a black hole, ignoring the incredible orbital velocity they must have been going. They would have had an orbit time of a few minutes at most, meaning any extended thrust sequence would just get evened out because they would keep moving to a different part of the orbit. This would force them to make the most inefficient Hohmann transfers to get anywhere--the equivalent fuel usage of increasing or decreasing your orbital altitude in tiny increments, then waiting till you get to the other side to circularize before continuing. This multiplies the already incredible delta-V requirements for making any significant plane changes in such an orbit. Now if they were in a stable orbit there wouldn't be much fuel cost to maintain it. Orbits really maintain themselves. But hovering over a black hole for 23 years would cost a lot of fuel. Yes I do play KSP. I learned far more about orbital mechanics from KSP than I had in the rest of my life's studies combined. Same here. It was the only way I could even offer insight in the conversation, I don't make a habit of arguing with people who have worked in Los Alamos in their own field. I bought the tesseract explanation, I've though of time as a physical dimension before, but she quickly dismantled it and pointed out that time was still passing on the inside of a black hole, and chuckled at the gravity waves. We didn't spend a lot of time talking the science but it was clear she was impressed by the majority of it. Kip Thorne, Niel Degrasse Tyson and the friend in question all gave it a thumbs up, what can I say. Now, I'm not sure what part you're referring to. I was talking about when they park in an artificial orbit above the first planet. A wider, circular orbit outside its sphere of influence but keeping pace with it. Impossible unless you keep your thrusters running and continually correct your course, which is absurdly wasteful and something they mention and weigh the costs of. What they don't mention is how it wasn't a catastrophic problem they left it in orbit 21 years too long. Now I'm beginning to suspect you're taking issue with the point when they use Gargantua to slingshot. Their orbit was, by the nature of what they were doing, definitely not circular at that point, so intuition isn't going to be accurate. They fired their thrusters and dropped a good chunk of weight at their intended periapsis, in order to gain as much speed as was possible before they fell in. Cooper continued along the ship's original course, and the ship edged past. Yes, their window would have been tiny, but they had a demonstrably capable computer on board that was explicitly helping him during the scene. All you can fault them for is stretching the scene out for dramatic effect, just like they condense the hours on the water planet so we don't have to watch water drain slowly while they shoot the ****.

Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. 2980	Posted - 2014.11.17 00:40:57 - [41] - Quote After they exited the wormhole, the first thing that came mind was: "Remember to bookmark it!" http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/
Carmen Electra The Scope Gallente Federation 13180	Posted - 2014.11.17 03:50:18 - [42] - Quote You guys worrying about the finer details of the physics need to let it go and enjoy a decent piece of entertainment. Bacon makes us stronger
Akirei Scytale Okami Syndicate 3476	Posted - 2014.11.17 06:46:35 - [43] - Quote Carmen Electra wrote: You guys worrying about the finer details of the physics need to let it go and enjoy a decent piece of entertainment. It is hard sci fi. In order to fully appreciate it you have to dig down. That's the whole point of the sub-genre. Movies like 2001, books written by Asimov and Clarke, etc.
Debora Tsung The Investment Bankers Guild 1333	Posted - 2014.11.17 07:23:47 - [44] - Quote Watched interstellar yesterday... Was a bit underwhelmed, but the Robot s were cool. Stupidity should be a bannable offense. Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699 Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance.
Akirei Scytale Okami Syndicate 3476	Posted - 2014.11.17 09:29:52 - [45] - Quote Debora Tsung wrote: Watched interstellar yesterday... Was a bit underwhelmed, but the Robot s were cool. Also, didn't understand why they never noticed 300 metres high mega waves on the first planet they approached before they went down to the surface. Stationary from orbit for all intents and purposes. Probably not interpreted as waves.
Pepper Swift The Vendunari End of Life 56889	Posted - 2014.11.17 09:36:09 - [46] - Quote Debora Tsung wrote: Watched interstellar yesterday... Was a bit underwhelmed, but the Robot s were cool. Also, didn't understand why they never noticed 300 metres high mega waves on the first planet they approached before they went down to the surface. cant have everyone spotting the obvious everytime... otherwise the movie be pretty poor to watch ... spoiler like.. lol.. going on only one spot of the planet and think the entire planet looks like that. What I need most.. is a day between Saturday and Sunday... If life gives you melons, you might be dyslexic
Pepper Swift The Vendunari End of Life 56889	Posted - 2014.11.17 09:37:05 - [47] - Quote but in general... interstellar is a pretty awesome movie. What I need most.. is a day between Saturday and Sunday... If life gives you melons, you might be dyslexic
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 1908	Posted - 2014.11.17 11:18:02 - [48] - Quote Akirei Scytale wrote: Same here. It was the only way I could even offer insight in the conversation, I don't make a habit of arguing with people who have worked in Los Alamos in their own field. I bought the tesseract explanation, I've though of time as a physical dimension before, but she quickly dismantled it and pointed out that time was still passing on the inside of a black hole, and chuckled at the gravity waves. We didn't spend a lot of time talking the science but it was clear she was impressed by the majority of it. Kip Thorne, Niel Degrasse Tyson and the friend in question all gave it a thumbs up, what can I say. Now, I'm not sure what part you're referring to. I was talking about when they park in an artificial orbit above the first planet. A wider, circular orbit outside its sphere of influence but keeping pace with it. Impossible unless you keep your thrusters running and continually correct your course, which is absurdly wasteful and something they mention and weigh the costs of. What they don't mention is how it wasn't a catastrophic problem they left it in orbit 21 years too long. Now I'm beginning to suspect you're taking issue with the point when they use Gargantua to slingshot. Their orbit was, by the nature of what they were doing, definitely not circular at that point, so intuition isn't going to be accurate. They fired their thrusters and dropped a good chunk of weight at their intended periapsis, in order to gain as much speed as was possible before they fell in. Cooper continued along the ship's original course, and the ship edged past. Yes, their window would have been tiny, but they had a demonstrably capable computer on board that was explicitly helping him during the scene. All you can fault them for is stretching the scene out for dramatic effect, just like they condense the hours on the water planet so we don't have to watch water drain slowly while they shoot the ****. No, the delta-V requirements of any major plane changes around a body are greatly increased by the mass of the body and how low the orbit is. If you aren't understanding my explanation, then go try it for yourself in KSP. Put a ship in a 2,000 km orbit over the sun with hyperedit, and try to fly it out of that orbit. Even if you put Moho on a 2,000 km orbit and put your ship in orbit around Moho, you still can't slingshot out without using a tremendous amount of dV. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) "What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
Christopher AET hirr Northern Coalition. 831	Posted - 2014.11.18 00:51:58 - [49] - Quote I would say that the best thing about the film would b the visuals and soundtrack, it also asks some pretty deep questions. Yes the science behind it is stretched. I would say it will win 2 oscars for its sound and visuals. The scripting was decent if not spectacular but the premise behind the scripting was pretty awesome. I drain ducks of their moisture for sustenance.
Debora Tsung The Investment Bankers Guild 1334	Posted - 2014.11.18 11:41:33 - [50] - Quote Christopher AET wrote: I would say that the best thing about the film would b the visuals and soundtrack, it also asks some pretty deep questions. Yes the science behind it is stretched. I would say it will win 2 oscars for its sound and visuals. The scripting was decent if not spectacular but the premise behind the scripting was pretty awesome. Dat soundtrack sure was annying at times. Especially when the music got so loud it blotted out everything else. xD Stupidity should be a bannable offense. Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699 Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance.

Akirei Scytale Okami Syndicate 3477	Posted - 2014.11.18 17:37:33 - [51] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: No, the delta-V requirements of any major plane changes around a body are greatly increased by the mass of the body and how low the orbit is. If you aren't understanding my explanation, then go try it for yourself in KSP. Put a ship in a 2,000 km orbit over the sun with hyperedit, and try to fly it out of that orbit. Even if you put Moho on a 2,000 km orbit and put your ship in orbit around Moho, you still can't slingshot out without using a tremendous amount of dV. They weren't orbiting the black hole, they were falling into it. That's what the thruster burn after they controlled the spinning did. So they dumped mass and burned when their velocity was extremely high but they still had a window. They slingshotted, they did not alter an orbit.
jason hill Caldari Provisions Caldari State 692	Posted - 2014.11.18 18:47:16 - [52] - Quote ive been led to believe it`s something like three hours looooooong ... ill wait till it comes out on blueray ....that way I can pause it when I need to go to the beer fridge
Debora Tsung The Investment Bankers Guild 1335	Posted - 2014.11.19 07:24:56 - [53] - Quote jason hill wrote: ive been led to believe it`s something like three hours looooooong ... ill wait till it comes out on blueray ....that way I can pause it when I need to go to the beer fridge Your cinemas don't sell beer? You poor sod, I pitty your country. Stupidity should be a bannable offense. Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699 Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 1910	Posted - 2014.11.19 19:20:17 - [54] - Quote Akirei Scytale wrote: They weren't orbiting the black hole, they were falling into it. That's what the thruster burn after they controlled the spinning did. So they dumped mass and burned when their velocity was extremely high but they still had a window. They slingshotted, they did not alter an orbit. That's even more absurd. While the dV requirement for a large enough plane change maneuver might be a lot smaller, it's still very large and there's still very little time to burn the thrusters, but when they're that close to a black hole and falling in, they wouldn't have much time before they fell in. And time dilation wouldn't make them feel like they do but rather would make the whole thing happen even faster for them. That would have to be an absurdly massive black hole to give them any reasonable amount of time to do all that stuff while falling into it. And then that doesn't explain how a tiny plane change makes the difference between it looming on the horizon for 23 years and it suddenly getting really close in about 2 minutes. No, it doesn't work. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) "What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk


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