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Charlie Nonoke
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
35
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Posted - 2014.11.07 18:23:28 -
[1] - Quote
It was excellent, but hardly the film of the year.
Don't expect too much, especially after all the things EVE has taught you. |
Mizhir
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
69318
|
Posted - 2014.11.07 18:28:43 -
[2] - Quote
Going to watch it tonight. I'm afraid that I have hyped it too much. Well, only time will tell.
One Man Crew - Collective solo pvp
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6510
|
Posted - 2014.11.07 18:36:58 -
[3] - Quote
i generally ignore the media so im hype free \o/
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Tollen Gallen
Glory of Reprisal Enterprise
8240
|
Posted - 2014.11.07 18:40:09 -
[4] - Quote
Mizhir wrote:Going to watch it tonight. I'm afraid that I have hyped it too much. Well, only time will tell.
MIZZY!!! Boop!
Also I want to see it.
I like Lego.
Zimmy Zeta - I f*cking love martinis. the original ones, with gin, not that vodka martini crap.
Your old Friends can use me for 7 days, free!!!
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Big Lynx
Chaotic Tranquility
Warp to Cyno.
726
|
Posted - 2014.11.07 18:49:38 -
[5] - Quote
Just came out of cinema. Didnt understand, have to watch again. |
Mizhir
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
69320
|
Posted - 2014.11.07 18:51:45 -
[6] - Quote
\o Tollen
Big Lynx wrote:Just came out of cinema. Didnt understand, have to watch again.
Thats a good sign.
One Man Crew - Collective solo pvp
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Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
1319
|
Posted - 2014.11.07 18:55:14 -
[7] - Quote
Dangit, I had hoped it would be crap so I'd have some more stuff to complain about and one thing less to spend money upon. -.-
Stupidity should be a bannable offense.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699
Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6510
|
Posted - 2014.11.07 18:55:22 -
[8] - Quote
Mizhir wrote:\o Tollen Big Lynx wrote:Just came out of cinema. Didnt understand, have to watch again. Thats a good sign.
HA!
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Mizhir
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
69320
|
Posted - 2014.11.07 23:58:32 -
[9] - Quote
No offense Charlie. But did we watch the same movie? Now I understand why Big Lynx didn't fully get it. It is a movie with many aspects and it has completely blown my mind. It is a master piece.
However I don't think it is a movie for everyone. It takes a basic understanding of physics and a large chunk of space exploration childhood dream to fully get this movie. That being said. I have rarely been so emotionally touched by video media than I have from this. And on top of that is the epic work of Hans Zimmer. With the soundtrack from the movie still playing in my mind I have a huge urge to reach out for the stars.
One Man Crew - Collective solo pvp
|
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1888
|
Posted - 2014.11.08 00:12:21 -
[10] - Quote
I'm not sure if you guys are talking about what I'm thinking you are. I've been watching Interstellar for about a year now. It's really good but it's not that new so I'm not sure what all the sudden hype is about.
Scott Manley is probably going to make the final episode in a month or two, and it'll be nice to see the end but sad to not look forward to the next episode anymore.
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
"What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
|
Charlie Nonoke
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
35
|
Posted - 2014.11.08 01:02:46 -
[11] - Quote
Mizhir wrote:No offense Charlie. But did we watch the same movie? Now I understand why Big Lynx didn't fully get it. It is a movie with many aspects and it has completely blown my mind. It is a master piece.
However I don't think it is a movie for everyone. It takes a basic understanding of physics and a large chunk of space exploration childhood dream to fully get this movie. That being said. I have rarely been so emotionally touched by video media than I have from this. And on top of that is the epic work of Hans Zimmer. With the soundtrack from the movie still playing in my mind I have a huge urge to reach out for the stars.
I fully understood the movie. I have studied Physics myself, and dedicated a lot of my time to Relativity, Special and General.
And every boy that ever existed dreamt of exploring space, to be an astronaut.
That being said, it doesn't take a physicist to fully understand the film, as the characters describe and explain it eloquently to the viewer. You don't need, as you put it, a basic understanding, just to know that gravity has effects on time, when the characters repeat it in layman's term again and again.
I wasn't impressed by the film. There were scenes which were touching, plus Zimmer did a very good job with the score. However, objectively speaking, that would be personal emotions dictating this was a masterpiece, rather than scoring the film as a whole.
We have different opinions, and I respect yours. |
Mizhir
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
69321
|
Posted - 2014.11.08 01:06:05 -
[12] - Quote
Charlie Nonoke wrote:Mizhir wrote:No offense Charlie. But did we watch the same movie? Now I understand why Big Lynx didn't fully get it. It is a movie with many aspects and it has completely blown my mind. It is a master piece.
However I don't think it is a movie for everyone. It takes a basic understanding of physics and a large chunk of space exploration childhood dream to fully get this movie. That being said. I have rarely been so emotionally touched by video media than I have from this. And on top of that is the epic work of Hans Zimmer. With the soundtrack from the movie still playing in my mind I have a huge urge to reach out for the stars. I fully understood the movie. I have studied Physics myself, and dedicated a lot of my time to Relativity, Special and General. And every boy that ever existed dreamt of exploring space, to be an astronaut. That being said, it doesn't take a physicist to fully understand the film, as the characters describe and explain it eloquently to the viewer. You don't need, as you put it, a basic understanding, just to know that gravity has effects on time, when the characters repeat it in layman's term again and again. I wasn't impressed by the film. There were scenes which were touching, plus Zimmer did a very good job with the score. However, objectively speaking, that would be personal emotions at its most fragile state dictating whether this was a masterpiece, rather than looking at all the aspects, and then rating it as a whole We have different opinions, and I respect yours.
My reply wasn't targeted at you specifically. I apologize if you understood it that way.
One Man Crew - Collective solo pvp
|
Alpheias
Euphoria Released
Triumvirate.
7423
|
Posted - 2014.11.08 17:41:09 -
[13] - Quote
I am going to be brutally honest, I have nothing good to say about this movie at all.
[SPOILERS AHEAD]
It is no coincidence that "Interstellar" looks similar to "Contact" based on Carl Sagan's novel of the same name. The project was hatched by "Contact" executive producer Lynda Obst and Kip Thorne, technical adviser for the film after Sagans passing. Jonathan Nolan wrote the manuscript, Steven Spielberg would direct, but it was Christopher Nolan, Jonathan's brother, who finally took the job.
The photography of Hoyte van Hoytemas, the visual effects and the result isn't too shabby, even if some of the animated space panoramas in this $165M movie looks like they have been taken from album covers from the '70s. The story is, however, a genuinely weak construction, built with embarrassing simplifications, drastic makeshift solutions, hocus pocus theories and a concoction of stolen swag from other movies.
The story takes place in a apocalyptic future, possibly the consequence of climate change but it is never revealed why. The only "explanation" given, is the speech by grandpa Donald about general materialism which also serves as the Ayn Rand inspired excuse to ditch the majority of humanity and focus on a small elite of noble survivors, whose future is either on new planets (Plan A) in different galaxies or on space stations (Plan B).
The sob story between father and daughter, the emotional foundation of Interstellar, has been copied multiple times from "Contact" - partly in Coops and his soon-to-be-space physicist daughter Murph and partly in professor Brand and his daughter/student. The shortcut to the universe goes through a wormhole that sits by Saturn, conveniently placed there by "higher powers" is taken from "2001" and the jovial super computers are no doubt happier counterparts to the psychotic HAL-9000.
It doesn't stop there though, the world record in unimaginativeness goes to the exploration of other worlds that quickly turns into a snooze fest, only matched by the buzz killing flirting between the two Star Trekkers Coop and Amelia. The final crashes into a banal resolution how the main character and the fragments of humanity, against all odds, survives thanks to a time paradox (based on Terminator) that tries to explain the emergence of the wormhole and a dopey happy ending, more suited for old fashioned novels that you find at the gas station than a modern scif-fi movie.
I want my three hours back.
Oh, don't even get me started on the physics.
Allow me to be frank. You will not like me. You will not like me now, and you will not like men++ a good deal less as we go on.
|
Axton Tomas
Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.11.08 18:06:23 -
[14] - Quote
People need to learn that every film made or book written derive their content from work made previous to them. There is no exception. No piece of work you love was wholly original - derivation is unavoidable.
Once you figure that out, you can stop trying to be a 2bitter4u critic with a superiority complex and just sit down and enjoy something.
Growing up also helps, but that's optional. |
Alpheias
Euphoria Released
Triumvirate.
7423
|
Posted - 2014.11.08 18:34:01 -
[15] - Quote
Axton Tomas wrote:People need to learn that every film made or book written derive their content from work made previous to them. There is no exception. No piece of work you love was wholly original - derivation is unavoidable.
Once you figure that out, you can stop trying to be a 2bitter4u critic with a superiority complex and just sit down and enjoy something.
Growing up also helps, but that's optional.
Since most of your post seems directed at me, I'll address it as such. Correct me if I am wrong though.
It is true as you say, every film and book is derived from something previously and there is no exception to that. But I am not sure how my opinion of a movie that I really wanted to see disappoints me so much that turns me me into "a 2bitter4u critic with a superiority complex". Another example of a movie that I was really eager to see but turned out to be poo was Prometheus, that was better as a trailer than as a movie.
I am admittedly very jaded when it comes to stuff that is supposed to entertain me whilst wanting my money but I don't see anything wrong with having high standards.
Speaking of growing up, how about you post with your main?
Allow me to be frank. You will not like me. You will not like me now, and you will not like men++ a good deal less as we go on.
|
Axton Tomas
Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.11.08 20:13:55 -
[16] - Quote
Alpheias wrote:Axton Tomas wrote:People need to learn that every film made or book written derive their content from work made previous to them. There is no exception. No piece of work you love was wholly original - derivation is unavoidable.
Once you figure that out, you can stop trying to be a 2bitter4u critic with a superiority complex and just sit down and enjoy something.
Growing up also helps, but that's optional. Since most of your post seems directed at me, I'll address it as such. Correct me if I am wrong though. It is true as you say, every film and book is derived from something previously and there is no exception to that. But I am not sure how my opinion of a movie that I really wanted to see disappoints me so much that turns me me into "a 2bitter4u critic with a superiority complex". Another example of a movie that I was really eager to see but turned out to be poo was Prometheus, that was better as a trailer than as a movie. I am admittedly very jaded when it comes to stuff that is supposed to entertain me whilst wanting my money but I don't see anything wrong with having high standards. Speaking of growing up, how about you post with your main?
It was a general sentiment I have that was brought to the surface by your post. I have no issue with you in particular.
What bothers me is that people consider themselves as having 'high standards' rather than correctly seeing themselves as just being picky, hard to please, and like to imagine themselves as not one of the unwashed masses.
And I have no main. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3225
|
Posted - 2014.11.08 21:16:39 -
[17] - Quote
My nerd of reference states that it's not a bad movie but it's very foreseable ("and now will happen this... and this guy will do that...", to the point of being boring sometimes, and all in all doesn't lives up to the expectations no matter the interest in liking it.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
|
Big Lynx
Chaotic Tranquility
Warp to Cyno.
730
|
Posted - 2014.11.09 06:32:29 -
[18] - Quote
SPOILERS
Please explain:
The wh was placed by aliens? Afaik MC said (as he wascin the 5D bookshelf) that "they" are themselves.
Why the **** is he behind the bookshelf? And why is he rescued directly before cooper station in the end? Universe is 15b ly and he ejects from 5th dimension right to the doorstep of cooper station? That was cheap. |
Alpheias
Euphoria Released
Triumvirate.
7423
|
Posted - 2014.11.09 07:51:26 -
[19] - Quote
Axton Tomas wrote:Alpheias wrote:Axton Tomas wrote:People need to learn that every film made or book written derive their content from work made previous to them. There is no exception. No piece of work you love was wholly original - derivation is unavoidable.
Once you figure that out, you can stop trying to be a 2bitter4u critic with a superiority complex and just sit down and enjoy something.
Growing up also helps, but that's optional. Since most of your post seems directed at me, I'll address it as such. Correct me if I am wrong though. It is true as you say, every film and book is derived from something previously and there is no exception to that. But I am not sure how my opinion of a movie that I really wanted to see disappoints me so much that turns me me into "a 2bitter4u critic with a superiority complex". Another example of a movie that I was really eager to see but turned out to be poo was Prometheus, that was better as a trailer than as a movie. I am admittedly very jaded when it comes to stuff that is supposed to entertain me whilst wanting my money but I don't see anything wrong with having high standards. Speaking of growing up, how about you post with your main? It was a general sentiment I have that was brought to the surface by your post. I have no issue with you in particular. What bothers me is that people consider themselves as having 'high standards' rather than correctly seeing themselves as just being picky, hard to please, and like to imagine themselves as not one of the unwashed masses. There's nothing wrong with disliking a film and saying why. It is another to couch yourself as having better taste, smarter preferences, and superior artistic knowledge than anyone who would like such a film. That is the attitude that irks me. But as I said, I have no issue with you in particular. What I am griping about is a very common attitude that can be seen regarding literature, film, music, cars - nearly everything. Just a pet peeve. And I have no main.
I never said anything about having a better taste, smarter preferences or a superior artistic knowledge, what I said was that "Interstellar" stole this and that from other movies in the worst manner possible that makes the previous works stand out as shining beacons in the night sky and from a director of Christopher Nolan's calibre, I don't think it is unfair to say that I expected better.
As for having high standards, it is about the matter that I want value for my money spent as a consumer. Call that having better taste, smarter preferences or a superior artistic knowledge if you want.
Allow me to be frank. You will not like me. You will not like me now, and you will not like men++ a good deal less as we go on.
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3228
|
Posted - 2014.11.09 09:10:12 -
[20] - Quote
More reviews are in... from the look of them, it's a film that may appeal to some who never watched or read of any SF deeper than ST:TOS, but all in all it gets so many things so wrong and the story goes on so cheaply that it can't pass the test. It's a bad film that pretends to be deep but just steals SF cliches from "serious SF" and uses them poorly, and the scientific parts of it are godawful beyond suspension of disbelief, for no good reason.
Why do you need a physicist when your plot involves someone falling into a black hole without being disintegrated by radiation, stretched all over millions of kilometers of space and swallowed into oblivion, in that order?
What's worst is that the story and the storytelling are completely subpar even if the director wasn't Nolan.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Titus Marrs
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2014.11.09 15:17:50 -
[21] - Quote
It's at least better than Gravity? Yes, the shots from space were spectacular. However, IMO, the story was very weak.
I'm hoping Interstellar has some hard sci fi aspects and better story to tell. |
Alpheias
Euphoria Released
Triumvirate.
7423
|
Posted - 2014.11.09 15:43:29 -
[22] - Quote
Titus Marrs wrote:It's at least better than Gravity? Yes, the shots from space were spectacular. However, IMO, the story was very weak.
I'm hoping Interstellar has some hard sci fi aspects and better story to tell.
Nope and nope. If you want hard sci-fi, I recommend Leviathan Wakes by James S. A. Corey.
Allow me to be frank. You will not like me. You will not like me now, and you will not like men++ a good deal less as we go on.
|
Titus Marrs
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2014.11.09 16:59:50 -
[23] - Quote
Alpheias wrote:Titus Marrs wrote:It's at least better than Gravity? Yes, the shots from space were spectacular. However, IMO, the story was very weak.
I'm hoping Interstellar has some hard sci fi aspects and better story to tell. Nope and nope. If you want hard sci-fi, I recommend Leviathan Wakes by James S. A. Corey.
I will try to remain optimistic before seeing this film later today 
My mind survived Ron D Moores' BSG series ending episode, so I'm well equipped to handle let downs. |
Commissar Kate
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
86574
|
Posted - 2014.11.09 17:09:44 -
[24] - Quote
Awesome, looks like one to avoid.
I cant remember the last sci-fi movie that I actually enjoyed watching. They all seem to be terrible now.
Why can't I wear that? || My Fanclub
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Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
754
|
Posted - 2014.11.09 17:40:28 -
[25] - Quote
gf seen it yesterday she say gravity is better but that i should look it anyway so my hopes are not that my mind will be blown....will see it anyway today. |
baltec1
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
13826
|
Posted - 2014.11.09 23:13:13 -
[26] - Quote
Good film, well worth a watch. They somehow managed to make me care about a robotic rectangle with great sense of humour.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
754
|
Posted - 2014.11.10 04:24:59 -
[27] - Quote
Good one indeed . |
Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc.
Dawn of Transcendence
679
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 01:59:35 -
[28] - Quote
I rather like the film, but i do get the strong suspicion that few people get the idea behind 'them' and the concept of the 5th dimension as presented in the movie. It explains a lot of things most people assume to be plot holes...
[center]If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...[/center]
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RoAnnon
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
10727
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 03:11:08 -
[29] - Quote
Saw it this afternoon, 9/10. If you get the chance to see it on IMAX, pay the extra and do so, it's well worth it.
So, you're a bounty hunter.
No, that ain't it at all.
Then what are you?
I'm a bounty hunter.
|
Boom McCondor
30plus
Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
79
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 17:58:42 -
[30] - Quote
Three words: Big Hero 6.
Guess that two words and a number, but go see it anyway. Also, I liked the Ben Bova books for near future science-fiction. Mars, Mercury, The Rock Rats, etc. Maybe a little softer than "hard" sci-fi but still very plausible. |
Norian Lonark
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
143
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 18:03:32 -
[31] - Quote
RoAnnon wrote:Saw it this afternoon, 9/10. If you get the chance to see it on IMAX, pay the extra and do so, it's well worth it.
I saw it in IMAX too I really enjoyed the movie thought the story and visuals were great but the soundtrack was horrid... in IMAX it was actually pain inducing  .
Start wide, expand further, and never look back
|
Karl Jerr
Herzack Unit
53
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 18:16:37 -
[32] - Quote
I put this movie at the same level than Sunshine: too much drama, too much implausible things (out of the wormhole). |
Velarra
327
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 18:23:40 -
[33] - Quote
Alpheias wrote:Titus Marrs wrote:It's at least better than Gravity? Yes, the shots from space were spectacular. However, IMO, the story was very weak.
I'm hoping Interstellar has some hard sci fi aspects and better story to tell. Nope and nope. If you want hard sci-fi, I recommend Leviathan Wakes by James S. A. Corey.
How did you feel about 2004's "Primer" ? |
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3463
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 22:12:34 -
[34] - Quote
Charlie Nonoke wrote:It was excellent, but hardly the film of the year.
Don't expect too much, especially after all the things EVE has taught you.
I watched it with a physics graduate student and the only things she snickered at were gravity moving through time and the love as a coordinate system in time and space bit. Otherwise an extremely solid movie. The science, surprisingly, stands up (generally). |
Alpheias
Euphoria Released
Triumvirate.
7437
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 12:57:01 -
[35] - Quote
Velarra wrote:Alpheias wrote:Titus Marrs wrote:It's at least better than Gravity? Yes, the shots from space were spectacular. However, IMO, the story was very weak.
I'm hoping Interstellar has some hard sci fi aspects and better story to tell. Nope and nope. If you want hard sci-fi, I recommend Leviathan Wakes by James S. A. Corey. How did you feel about 2004's "Primer" ?
I have actually not seen it. Reading about it though.
Allow me to be frank. You will not like me. You will not like me now, and you will not like men++ a good deal less as we go on.
|
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3464
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 15:13:10 -
[36] - Quote
Alpheias wrote:Velarra wrote:Alpheias wrote:Titus Marrs wrote:It's at least better than Gravity? Yes, the shots from space were spectacular. However, IMO, the story was very weak.
I'm hoping Interstellar has some hard sci fi aspects and better story to tell. Nope and nope. If you want hard sci-fi, I recommend Leviathan Wakes by James S. A. Corey. How did you feel about 2004's "Primer" ? I have actually not seen it. Reading about it though.
It's the only time travel movie that tries to be accurate, and as a result, is completely incomprehensible. Once you think you have it figured out, you watch it again and realize you missed an entire layer of unseen events.
Definitely worth the watch. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1899
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 12:20:47 -
[37] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:I watched it with a physics graduate student and the only things she snickered at were gravity moving through time and the love as a coordinate system in time and space bit. Otherwise an extremely solid movie. The science, surprisingly, stands up (generally).
PS: I really hope EVE hasn't taught you anything about space because it simulates a universe of molasses.
Actually gravity-driven time dilation is very real, and the scale they used was about right for being right on the cusp of the black hole. The whole system acted like some sort of bizarre patched-conics setup in which the time dilation was extremely different in areas at similar altitudes but otherwise it didn't horrify me too much. What made me twitch was his total disregard for the amount of delta-V they would have needed to make such drastic orbital changes in such close proximity to a black hole. And the rest of the film pretty much demonstrated a complete absence of any understanding at all of orbital mechanics.
You can't park a ship over a Black Hole. If your altitude is stable at something like 7x the radius of the event horizon (that's what it looked like in the movie) then that is because you are orbiting it at about 1/64th the speed of light--if my simple estimate is giving a semi-accurate ballpark figure here. That's something like 5,000 km/s. (compare to Earth orbit at 8 km/s) Even to merely divert your heading into the event horizon for a full-speed entry, you'd need at minimum something like 4,000 km/s of delta-V, and even then only if you have enough thrust to do all of the accelerating in the time span of under 1/8th of an orbit. If we assume a small black hole with event horizon about the size of the Earth, that's an orbit of about 300,000km, so 1/8th is about 40,000km. So you have about 8 seconds to pump out 4,000 km/s of delta-V, which would produce a G-force of something like 50,000 Gs.
Now that's all calculated with Euclidean physics. If we throw in relativistic effects, you end up with even larger amounts of delta-V required.
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
"What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
|
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3470
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 12:38:41 -
[38] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:I watched it with a physics graduate student and the only things she snickered at were gravity moving through time and the love as a coordinate system in time and space bit. Otherwise an extremely solid movie. The science, surprisingly, stands up (generally).
PS: I really hope EVE hasn't taught you anything about space because it simulates a universe of molasses. Actually gravity-driven time dilation is very real, and the scale they used was about right for being right on the cusp of the black hole. The whole system acted like some sort of bizarre patched-conics setup in which the time dilation was extremely different in areas at similar altitudes but otherwise it didn't horrify me too much. What made me twitch was his total disregard for the amount of delta-V they would have needed to make such drastic orbital changes in such close proximity to a black hole. And the rest of the film pretty much demonstrated a complete absence of any understanding at all of orbital mechanics. You can't park a ship over a Black Hole. If your altitude is stable at something like 7x the radius of the event horizon (that's what it looked like in the movie) then that is because you are orbiting it at about 1/64th the speed of light--if my simple estimate is giving a semi-accurate ballpark figure here. That's something like 5,000 km/s. (compare to Earth orbit at 8 km/s) Even to merely divert your heading into the event horizon for a full-speed entry, you'd need at minimum something like 4,000 km/s of delta-V, and even then only if you have enough thrust to do all of the accelerating in the time span of under 1/8th of an orbit. If we assume a small black hole with event horizon about the size of the Earth, that's an orbit of about 300,000km, so 1/8th is about 40,000km. So you have about 8 seconds to pump out 4,000 km/s of delta-V, which would produce a G-force of something like 50,000 Gs. Now that's all calculated with Euclidean physics. If we throw in relativistic effects, you end up with even larger amounts of delta-V required.
Not the time dilation. I assure you we were both very familiar with the concept. I'm talking about the main character literally sending gravity waves back in time. I definitely commented on their supremely efficient thrusters, and apparent ability to ignore the effects of thruster placement on the actual thrust vector (ie the off-center docking with a damaged ship and then firing asymmetric thrusters without spinning in another axis).
Also, they weren't hovering over it, I assume you're referring to the scene where they took a wider orbit over the first planet. Perfectly plausible and a perfect waste of fuel, it isn't a natural orbit that they try to make. Nothing unrealistic about it except the ship maintaining it on autopilot for 23 years. That is... a lot of fuel. You also either drastically underestimated the scale of the black hole or overestimated the ship, they definitely weren't that close. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1900
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Posted - 2014.11.13 12:52:42 -
[39] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Also, they weren't hovering over it, I assume you're referring to the scene where they took a wider orbit over the first planet. Perfectly plausible and a perfect waste of fuel, it isn't a natural orbit that they try to make. Nothing unrealistic about it except the ship maintaining it on autopilot for 23 years. That is... a lot of fuel. You also either drastically underestimated the scale of the black hole or overestimated the ship, they definitely weren't that close.
Oh, and I can tell you play Kerbal Space Program, because the Delta V required to escape Kerbol is 4,500. Earth requires ~9000. That's why fuel is twice as dense in KSP.
They treated orbital mechanics like they were hovering the whole time. They seem to think they can travel short distances easily while near a black hole, ignoring the incredible orbital velocity they must have been going. They would have had an orbit time of a few minutes at most, meaning any extended thrust sequence would just get evened out because they would keep moving to a different part of the orbit. This would force them to make the most inefficient Hohmann transfers to get anywhere--the equivalent fuel usage of increasing or decreasing your orbital altitude in tiny increments, then waiting till you get to the other side to circularize before continuing. This multiplies the already incredible delta-V requirements for making any significant plane changes in such an orbit.
Now if they were in a stable orbit there wouldn't be much fuel cost to maintain it. Orbits really maintain themselves. But hovering over a black hole for 23 years would cost a lot of fuel.
Yes I do play KSP. I learned far more about orbital mechanics from KSP than I had in the rest of my life's studies combined.
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
"What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
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Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3470
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 13:11:18 -
[40] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:Also, they weren't hovering over it, I assume you're referring to the scene where they took a wider orbit over the first planet. Perfectly plausible and a perfect waste of fuel, it isn't a natural orbit that they try to make. Nothing unrealistic about it except the ship maintaining it on autopilot for 23 years. That is... a lot of fuel. You also either drastically underestimated the scale of the black hole or overestimated the ship, they definitely weren't that close.
Oh, and I can tell you play Kerbal Space Program, because the Delta V required to escape Kerbol is 4,500. Earth requires ~9000. That's why fuel is twice as dense in KSP. They treated orbital mechanics like they were hovering the whole time. They seem to think they can travel short distances easily while near a black hole, ignoring the incredible orbital velocity they must have been going. They would have had an orbit time of a few minutes at most, meaning any extended thrust sequence would just get evened out because they would keep moving to a different part of the orbit. This would force them to make the most inefficient Hohmann transfers to get anywhere--the equivalent fuel usage of increasing or decreasing your orbital altitude in tiny increments, then waiting till you get to the other side to circularize before continuing. This multiplies the already incredible delta-V requirements for making any significant plane changes in such an orbit. Now if they were in a stable orbit there wouldn't be much fuel cost to maintain it. Orbits really maintain themselves. But hovering over a black hole for 23 years would cost a lot of fuel. Yes I do play KSP. I learned far more about orbital mechanics from KSP than I had in the rest of my life's studies combined.
Same here. It was the only way I could even offer insight in the conversation, I don't make a habit of arguing with people who have worked in Los Alamos in their own field. I bought the tesseract explanation, I've though of time as a physical dimension before, but she quickly dismantled it and pointed out that time was still passing on the inside of a black hole, and chuckled at the gravity waves. We didn't spend a lot of time talking the science but it was clear she was impressed by the majority of it. Kip Thorne, Niel Degrasse Tyson and the friend in question all gave it a thumbs up, what can I say.
Now, I'm not sure what part you're referring to. I was talking about when they park in an artificial orbit above the first planet. A wider, circular orbit outside its sphere of influence but keeping pace with it. Impossible unless you keep your thrusters running and continually correct your course, which is absurdly wasteful and something they mention and weigh the costs of. What they don't mention is how it wasn't a catastrophic problem they left it in orbit 21 years too long.
Now I'm beginning to suspect you're taking issue with the point when they use Gargantua to slingshot. Their orbit was, by the nature of what they were doing, definitely not circular at that point, so intuition isn't going to be accurate. They fired their thrusters and dropped a good chunk of weight at their intended periapsis, in order to gain as much speed as was possible before they fell in. Cooper continued along the ship's original course, and the ship edged past. Yes, their window would have been tiny, but they had a demonstrably capable computer on board that was explicitly helping him during the scene. All you can fault them for is stretching the scene out for dramatic effect, just like they condense the hours on the water planet so we don't have to watch water drain slowly while they shoot the ****. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
2980
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 00:40:57 -
[41] - Quote
After they exited the wormhole, the first thing that came mind was: "Remember to bookmark it!"
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/
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Carmen Electra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
13180
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 03:50:18 -
[42] - Quote
You guys worrying about the finer details of the physics need to let it go and enjoy a decent piece of entertainment.
Bacon makes us stronger
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Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3476
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 06:46:35 -
[43] - Quote
Carmen Electra wrote:You guys worrying about the finer details of the physics need to let it go and enjoy a decent piece of entertainment.
It is hard sci fi. In order to fully appreciate it you have to dig down. That's the whole point of the sub-genre. Movies like 2001, books written by Asimov and Clarke, etc. |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
1333
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 07:23:47 -
[44] - Quote
Watched interstellar yesterday... Was a bit underwhelmed, but the Robot s were cool.
Stupidity should be a bannable offense.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699
Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance.
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Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3476
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 09:29:52 -
[45] - Quote
Debora Tsung wrote:Watched interstellar yesterday... Was a bit underwhelmed, but the Robot s were cool.
Also, didn't understand why they never noticed 300 metres high mega waves on the first planet they approached before they went down to the surface.
Stationary from orbit for all intents and purposes. Probably not interpreted as waves. |
Pepper Swift
The Vendunari
End of Life
56889
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 09:36:09 -
[46] - Quote
Debora Tsung wrote:Watched interstellar yesterday... Was a bit underwhelmed, but the Robot s were cool.
Also, didn't understand why they never noticed 300 metres high mega waves on the first planet they approached before they went down to the surface.
cant have everyone spotting the obvious everytime...
otherwise the movie be pretty poor to watch ...
*spoiler*
like.. lol.. going on only one spot of the planet and think the entire planet looks like that.
What I need most.. is a day between Saturday and Sunday...
If life gives you melons, you might be dyslexic
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Pepper Swift
The Vendunari
End of Life
56889
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 09:37:05 -
[47] - Quote
but in general... interstellar is a pretty awesome movie.
What I need most.. is a day between Saturday and Sunday...
If life gives you melons, you might be dyslexic
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1908
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Posted - 2014.11.17 11:18:02 -
[48] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Same here. It was the only way I could even offer insight in the conversation, I don't make a habit of arguing with people who have worked in Los Alamos in their own field. I bought the tesseract explanation, I've though of time as a physical dimension before, but she quickly dismantled it and pointed out that time was still passing on the inside of a black hole, and chuckled at the gravity waves. We didn't spend a lot of time talking the science but it was clear she was impressed by the majority of it. Kip Thorne, Niel Degrasse Tyson and the friend in question all gave it a thumbs up, what can I say.
Now, I'm not sure what part you're referring to. I was talking about when they park in an artificial orbit above the first planet. A wider, circular orbit outside its sphere of influence but keeping pace with it. Impossible unless you keep your thrusters running and continually correct your course, which is absurdly wasteful and something they mention and weigh the costs of. What they don't mention is how it wasn't a catastrophic problem they left it in orbit 21 years too long.
Now I'm beginning to suspect you're taking issue with the point when they use Gargantua to slingshot. Their orbit was, by the nature of what they were doing, definitely not circular at that point, so intuition isn't going to be accurate. They fired their thrusters and dropped a good chunk of weight at their intended periapsis, in order to gain as much speed as was possible before they fell in. Cooper continued along the ship's original course, and the ship edged past. Yes, their window would have been tiny, but they had a demonstrably capable computer on board that was explicitly helping him during the scene. All you can fault them for is stretching the scene out for dramatic effect, just like they condense the hours on the water planet so we don't have to watch water drain slowly while they shoot the ****.
No, the delta-V requirements of any major plane changes around a body are greatly increased by the mass of the body and how low the orbit is. If you aren't understanding my explanation, then go try it for yourself in KSP. Put a ship in a 2,000 km orbit over the sun with hyperedit, and try to fly it out of that orbit. Even if you put Moho on a 2,000 km orbit and put your ship in orbit around Moho, you still can't slingshot out without using a tremendous amount of dV.
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
"What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
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Christopher AET
hirr
Northern Coalition.
831
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 00:51:58 -
[49] - Quote
I would say that the best thing about the film would b the visuals and soundtrack, it also asks some pretty deep questions. Yes the science behind it is stretched. I would say it will win 2 oscars for its sound and visuals. The scripting was decent if not spectacular but the premise behind the scripting was pretty awesome.
I drain ducks of their moisture for sustenance.
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Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
1334
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 11:41:33 -
[50] - Quote
Christopher AET wrote:I would say that the best thing about the film would b the visuals and soundtrack, it also asks some pretty deep questions. Yes the science behind it is stretched. I would say it will win 2 oscars for its sound and visuals. The scripting was decent if not spectacular but the premise behind the scripting was pretty awesome.
Dat soundtrack sure was annying at times. Especially when the music got so loud it blotted out everything else. xD
Stupidity should be a bannable offense.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699
Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance.
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Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3477
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 17:37:33 -
[51] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
No, the delta-V requirements of any major plane changes around a body are greatly increased by the mass of the body and how low the orbit is. If you aren't understanding my explanation, then go try it for yourself in KSP. Put a ship in a 2,000 km orbit over the sun with hyperedit, and try to fly it out of that orbit. Even if you put Moho on a 2,000 km orbit and put your ship in orbit around Moho, you still can't slingshot out without using a tremendous amount of dV.
They weren't orbiting the black hole, they were falling into it. That's what the thruster burn after they controlled the spinning did. So they dumped mass and burned when their velocity was extremely high but they still had a window. They slingshotted, they did not alter an orbit. |
jason hill
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
692
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 18:47:16 -
[52] - Quote
ive been led to believe it`s something like three hours looooooong ... ill wait till it comes out on blueray ....that way I can pause it when I need to go to the beer fridge |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
1335
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 07:24:56 -
[53] - Quote
jason hill wrote:ive been led to believe it`s something like three hours looooooong ... ill wait till it comes out on blueray ....that way I can pause it when I need to go to the beer fridge
Your cinemas don't sell beer?
You poor sod, I pitty your country. 
Stupidity should be a bannable offense.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699
Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance.
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1910
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 19:20:17 -
[54] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:They weren't orbiting the black hole, they were falling into it. That's what the thruster burn after they controlled the spinning did. So they dumped mass and burned when their velocity was extremely high but they still had a window. They slingshotted, they did not alter an orbit.
That's even more absurd. While the dV requirement for a large enough plane change maneuver might be a lot smaller, it's still very large and there's still very little time to burn the thrusters, but when they're that close to a black hole and falling in, they wouldn't have much time before they fell in. And time dilation wouldn't make them feel like they do but rather would make the whole thing happen even faster for them. That would have to be an absurdly massive black hole to give them any reasonable amount of time to do all that stuff while falling into it. And then that doesn't explain how a tiny plane change makes the difference between it looming on the horizon for 23 years and it suddenly getting really close in about 2 minutes.
No, it doesn't work.
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
"What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
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