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Verus Potestas
Caldari Fiat Mort
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Posted - 2006.08.27 21:47:00 -
[31]
The Law of Conservation of Energy is possibly the most basic and important law in physics (although given that there are so many which are totally fundamental, justifying one as more important than another is futile).
No energy is ever created or destroyed. It only changes form (including to mass and back). No process has ever been observed which can break this, and the very fact of "something from nothing" just seems so ridiculous (at least to me) that it couldn't be possible whatever. Where does the fricking stuff come from? It can't just pop into existence, can it?
At least for me, the only problem with this (and the bit which makes my head hurt) is where everything came from in the first place. We have our shiny little big-bang theory, before which there was god-knows-what. However, whatever it was, it seems a fair assumption that stuff was created in the big bang. Stuff showed up, and no-one really knows how, where from or why. I don't like that.
As an aside, when something (obviously magenetic) has a force acted on it by a fixed magnet so it goes from stationary to moving, where does the kinetic energy come from? The magnet isn't itself losing energy I'm sure there is a really obvious explanation for this (in fact, if I hadn't just come up with this, and if I'd got any sleep at all last night, I probably would have thought of it by now).
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Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.08.27 21:50:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Verus Potestas The Law of Conservation of Energy is possibly the most basic and important law in physics (although given that there are so many which are totally fundamental, justifying one as more important than another is futile).
No energy is ever created or destroyed. It only changes form (including to mass and back). No process has ever been observed which can break this, and the very fact of "something from nothing" just seems so ridiculous (at least to me) that it couldn't be possible whatever. Where does the fricking stuff come from? It can't just pop into existence, can it?
Now look back at an 1900 textbook;
Quote: The Law of Conservation of Energy is possibly the most basic and important law in physics.
No energy is ever created or destroyed. It only changes form. No process has ever been observed which can break this, and the very fact of "something from nothing" just seems so ridiculous (at least to me) that it couldn't be possible whatever.
And less than three years later, a process was observed which DID break this, and the whole thing went down the toilet. It wasn't rescued until Einstein and his ilk worked out what was going on, and they added the proviso "including changing to mass and back."
Who knows what provisos we aren't aware of yet? ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Verus Potestas
Caldari Fiat Mort
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Posted - 2006.08.27 21:54:00 -
[33]
A proviso will not make it false. Something from nothing is not going to happen in my opinion. We may discover another form (or forms) of energy, or somewhere else it can be drawn from, but rest assured, it will not be being created or destroyed, just moved around.
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Negative Nancy
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Posted - 2006.08.27 23:20:00 -
[34]
Maybe it pulls energy from dark matter -----------------------------------------
Originally by: Chadawahee
Originally by: Neprox What is wow?
wow is what you say when you start up eve for the first time
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Salusa VC
TunDraGon
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Posted - 2006.08.27 23:32:00 -
[35]
Denzil would know.
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Verus Potestas
Caldari Fiat Mort
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Posted - 2006.08.27 23:39:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Negative Nancy Maybe it pulls energy from dark matter
That wouldn't be created or destroyed, and dark matter is (at least as far as I know) a theory for matter in space only really.
It is dark because it won't reflect EM radiation: if it is to be seen, you must look at the effects it has on other things around it (gravity is the best choice I think, at least in space). The blackness of dark matter is not otherwise noticed because it is against the backdrop of space, which has it's own black motif.
If it stable dark matte was present in reasonable quantities on Earth (so it could be drawn on by these magic boxes) it would be easily detectable, either by sensing contact with it, or by the very fact that it doesn't reflect light. Dark matter isn't invisible, it appears black.
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Scorpyn
Caldari Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2006.08.27 23:55:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Saiyar This is most likely a Viral ad campaign. From what I have been able to find out it is most likely to be for Halo 3. Altho both parties have denied this it is remarkebly similar to the viral campaign for halo 2 which was also denied at the time.
The complete lack of info given out by the website and the fact that 5 years ago Streon was a company that advised buisnesses on e-commerce also add weight to the viral ad theory.
Viral marketing was my initial thought aswell.
It's probably possible to create something from nothing though. I have an idea for creating a magnet-driven engine actually, but it'd probably not work and I'd need materials that I don't know if they exist in order to build it.
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Reiisha
Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2006.08.28 00:08:00 -
[38]
Imagination is a quality many people completely lack - especially people who claim to know how the world works.
Imagination is what brought the idea from the apple to Newton, imagination is what brought DaVinci to draw flying machines, imagination is what spawned Quantum Mechanics.
Advances have been made in science for millenia, and every time the 'scientists' thought they knew everything, people like Newton, Einstein, Huygens, Copernicus or Galileo came along.
Seriously, is it so hard to believe that we are actually *not* making as much progress as we think?
The way i see it, science will never be complete. We will never be conscious beyond what we can perceive, and this fact alone makes every single current law of physics invalid in the long run. Failing to understand this is failing to make progress. Nothing is set in stone.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.08.28 00:43:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Reiisha
Advances have been made in science for millenia, and every time the 'scientists' thought they knew everything, people like Newton, Einstein, Huygens, Copernicus or Galileo came along.
These scientists did not overturn the ideas of giants: they stood on the shoulders of them.
Einstein did not "challenge" much at all: indeed, nearly all of his special theory of relativity was based on previous concept's, such as Lorentz's transformation.
The idea that science gets ahead because one man "challenges the authorities" is a myth.
--[23] Member--
Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
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Reiisha
Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2006.08.28 01:07:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Reiisha
Advances have been made in science for millenia, and every time the 'scientists' thought they knew everything, people like Newton, Einstein, Huygens, Copernicus or Galileo came along.
These scientists did not overturn the ideas of giants: they stood on the shoulders of them.
Einstein did not "challenge" much at all: indeed, nearly all of his special theory of relativity was based on previous concept's, such as Lorentz's transformation.
The idea that science gets ahead because one man "challenges the authorities" is a myth.
The idea that science is a ruleset set in stone is a myth aswell. There are 2 possibilities: Either science does not exist or science is infinitely complex. Whichever you think is right, it means that you shouldn't deny something just because you don't understand it (yet).
Maybe my examples were a bit wrong indeed... A better one would be DaVinci, probably, and many philosophers.
While i'm busy, i might aswell also say that people should drop "the exception to the rule" paradigma aswell. If a rule has an exception, it's not a rule since the exception proves it's wrong.
And there are too many unexplained phenomena to trust science on anything beyond a normal man's understanding.
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Mak'shar Karrde
Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.28 05:19:00 -
[41]
Quote: And there are too many unexplained phenomena to trust science on anything beyond a normal man's understanding.
Scientists may not have all the answers but all their theories/explanations are falsifiable. All of their theories are open to be proven wrong. That can not be said for most of the unscientific 'explanations', that is why Science deserves to be trusted above all.
I was kind of toying with the idea of adding an 'IMO' to the above paragraph but I think it's a fact. Prove me wrong, heh.
(And I would just like to add my kudos for the use of 'Truthiness' upthread. Kudos).
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Wild Rho
Amarr Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2006.08.28 10:41:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Wild Rho on 28/08/2006 10:42:02
Originally by: Reiisha
The idea that science is a ruleset set in stone is a myth aswell. There are 2 possibilities: Either science does not exist or science is infinitely complex. Whichever you think is right, it means that you shouldn't deny something just because you don't understand it (yet).
Maybe my examples were a bit wrong indeed... A better one would be DaVinci, probably, and many philosophers.
While i'm busy, i might aswell also say that people should drop "the exception to the rule" paradigma aswell. If a rule has an exception, it's not a rule since the exception proves it's wrong.
And there are too many unexplained phenomena to trust science on anything beyond a normal man's understanding.
tbh I'm agreed with Reiisha here. What we currently have are not Rules or Laws but Guides as to how things work in the universe. Currently we have proven them to be extremely reliable but that's all. We don't know nearly enough about the universe yet, we have plenty of theories and evidence but that's all.
To simply dismiss somthing out of hand becuase it does not conform to our current guides is the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming when somone says somthing you don't like, it's just pigheaded and arrogant. Although come to think of it, it would mirror history pretty accurately.
This whole thing may turn out to be a fake, it may turn out to be somthing they simply didn't check for. Then again it could very well be somthing new that needs looking into. If it is the real thing then it hasn't broken any laws, all it will have done is provide a new aspect to them and new possibilities.
The least people could do is approach it with an open mind.
WE ARE DYSLEXIC OF BORG. Refutance is systile. Your ass will be laminated. - Jennie Marlboro
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Reiisha
Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2006.08.28 12:48:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Reiisha on 28/08/2006 12:49:24
Originally by: Mak'shar Karrde
Quote: And there are too many unexplained phenomena to trust science on anything beyond a normal man's understanding.
Scientists may not have all the answers but all their theories/explanations are falsifiable. All of their theories are open to be proven wrong. That can not be said for most of the unscientific 'explanations', that is why Science deserves to be trusted above all.
I was kind of toying with the idea of adding an 'IMO' to the above paragraph but I think it's a fact. Prove me wrong, heh.
(And I would just like to add my kudos for the use of 'Truthiness' upthread. Kudos).
You're stuck in the pit that science is stuck in atm...
You can't prove anything wrong when you haven't discovered how to do it yet. Untill then, a theory is just a theory, it's a convenience, not a rule of life, as it can be disproven very probably some time in the future.
A good example:
How can we prove our existence?
We can't.
Therefor, we assume that we exist.
This is a very basic principle on which science is partly based. Don't forget that.
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Dred 'Morte
Minmatar Sammael's Legion Arkhangelos Command
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Posted - 2006.08.28 16:57:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Dred 'Morte
I don't need to. I just feel like there are forces in the universe, energies, that are not used. If we use them / exploit them, infinite energy is possible.
Ah. So you go by the philosophy of truthiness.
I have an open mind. You don't. Simple isn't it?
Signature made by Mr Floppykickners |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.08.28 18:26:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 28/08/2006 18:30:54
Originally by: Dred 'Morte
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Dred 'Morte
I don't need to. I just feel like there are forces in the universe, energies, that are not used. If we use them / exploit them, infinite energy is possible.
Ah. So you go by the philosophy of truthiness.
I have an open mind. You don't. Simple isn't it?
Having an open mind does not imply that you have to "feel" things to believe them.
I believe things because of facts and proof. Show me proof, and I will take your ideas as fact.
I don't believe things because I "feel" they are true. For example, George Bush "felt" that there were WMDs in Iraq, and thus invaded. This is known as "truthiness."
--[23] Member--
Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
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Reiisha
Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2006.08.28 22:49:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Reiisha on 28/08/2006 22:51:54
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 28/08/2006 18:30:54
Originally by: Dred 'Morte
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Dred 'Morte
I don't need to. I just feel like there are forces in the universe, energies, that are not used. If we use them / exploit them, infinite energy is possible.
Ah. So you go by the philosophy of truthiness.
I have an open mind. You don't. Simple isn't it?
Having an open mind does not imply that you have to "feel" things to believe them.
I believe things because of facts and proof. Show me proof, and I will take your ideas as fact.
I don't believe things because I "feel" they are true. For example, George Bush "felt" that there were WMDs in Iraq, and thus invaded. This is known as "truthiness."
Prove to me that you exist. I don't see any reliable truth, so therefor i must assume that you don't exist.
Facts, evidence and proof are fundamental concepts of science itself, yet they start out with no proof of that they actually exist to prove things with.
Even better: You can't prove your own existence. You just 'feel' that you exist - That's what Morte meant, that kind of feeling. I think.
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missundermined
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Posted - 2006.08.29 02:54:00 -
[47]
Meh, I keep an open mind. There are things we know nothing about in the universe and they appear to challenge every concept we have of physics.
The sun is hotter than any nuclear heart and as yet, nothing has been found that burns as hot. The sun doesn't understand the laws of physics so it carries on burning regardless.
Dark matter and all manner of things are still a mystery and can't be understood by physics because they don't abide by it's laws. Tachyons travel faster than light but are they energy or matter? E=MC2 says they cannot exist since C is a constant according to physics. Tachyons don't know that of course.
Even the bumblebee can't fly according to physics but the poor thing doesn't know that and goes merrily on his way from one flower to the next oblivious to the laws of physics.
A quote from famous poet: "Laws were made to be broken". That applies to physics as well.
Having said that, I am skeptical about this infinite energy since you can measure input power and output power but much of it is lost to friction and inertia which isn't being measured. I think if you were to measure those and add them to the equation, it would balance out.
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Dr NOe
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Posted - 2006.08.29 08:22:00 -
[48]
Well i called Exxon and the assure me its a fake and a fraud. All the proof i need. BAHHH BAHHHH!
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Chloe Timere
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Posted - 2006.08.29 14:10:00 -
[49]
Originally by: jarack i read to "irishman" and then closed it
Watch your mouth. I'm Irish.
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