Alright, we're talking about it here and think there's probably no good reason not to raise the HP some. Where do you guys think it needs to be to make say, three t2 fit BS, inefficient to gank?

And you're right about afk travel vs active travel, switching to agility to support align time sounds good to me.

And what would you use those slots on otherwise?
Cargo expanders? The main carrying capacity is iin the SMA so you'd have to be pants on head ******** to fit anything other than tank tbh.

Working on the premise that large alliances/ coalitions don't already have the ships and accounts needed, which they do.

While we do have a lot of titans, we're not about to ask individual pilots to consign their expensive ships to a life of sitting in a dingy lowsec point for the sole purpose of flinging around tugs. They're far more useful defending the homeland. Really, you only have yourselves to blame GÇö the fact that everyone hates us necessitates this concentration of power.

Besides, like I've strenuously stated, the expense just isn't necessary while Jump Freighters and Interceptors exist. Why bother when there's a superlative option at significantly less expense?

If you want to hurt the seat of our power, going after interceptors is going to do a lot more to help than trying to craft convoluted fanfiction about ships you've never flown and organizations of which you will never belong.

1 DCU, 2 t2 bulkhead, 3 t1 transverse, 3 t2 invuln is around 420k EHP, is that the numbers you were hoping for?

I haven't really been involved in this whole ganking debate, honestly because it shouldn't be part of this thread. But I'd like to add my two cents at this point just because people don't have to assume anything about your mindset or motivations for this "mechanic" to be insanely stupid to begin with.

And before I get started on why, no I don't believe hi-sec space should be 100% safe.

That being said, the fact that people can repeatedly kill ships in hi sec over and over again is stupid. Think of it this way. Criminals today usually get second and third chances, but at some point, the legal systems realizes a person is a lost cause and removes them civilization. In this case you can repair your sec an unlimited number of times. How does that make sense? What needs to happen is that the system needs to be modified so that hi sec gankers after a certain amount of ganks get un-repairable sec status so as to make it very risky for them to move around empire. This allows people to engage in the activity on a limited basis with actual true consequences for their actions should they try to make it a full time career.

NEWS FLASH: It's not just a multi-player game either. Guess what there are solo players (I know quite a shock to gankers) and guess what? Solo players, new players - like the relative safety of hi-sec. Get used to it - and don't feel you're entitled just because you're in a giant sociopathic grief group.

As far as I know, CCP advertises the game for solo play and group play. It's suppose to be for all kinds of players: not just yahoo gankers in Uedama.

Oh, do you have an actual reason for the opinion that you hold or do you just like stating things that make no sense as a followup?

The difference between an opinion and a fact, is that facts are proven and have evidence to support them. Since your post has none of that, it remains that: an opinion. Now if you want to link some research on how people should relate to games without comparing them to real life or anything else that has context outside of a game, then please by all means.

Apparently in your world dictionaries do not exist. Last I checked high sec was not torn apart by war. Or would you like to see some videos on what actual war looks like?

You not agreeing with my comparisons also doesn't somehow preclude them from being relevant.

Well given that my argument is that your arguments make no sense and that you don't back up anything you say, the fact that you don't know how to use a dictionary kinda speaks for itself.

I thought the goons only ganked in Uedama with cheap dessies. But apparently they also use cheap dessies to gank forum threads as well.

The reality of the game speaks far more volumes than anything CCP marketing can cook up.

I'm not wrong, and on this one point neither are you.

The lore states that there are vast amounts of non capsular players that inhabit the game.
While we are the actual players of the game, we are far outnumbered by the inhabitants that are there.

You might be talking about violencing space boats in a video game, but what I'm talking about is the concept that the inhabitants of the game (namely the space navies) would have a vested interest to ensure that stuff didn't hit the fan in their space to ensure the free flow of goods etc.

Linking to something that shows others what you are suffering from doesn't help your case.

Actually I said humans. Putting words in my mouth is not the same thing as me moving the goal posts.

The lore states that there are vast amounts of non capsular players that inhabit the game.

One of the more reasonable arguments I have read. I still think though that the RISK vs REWARD equation is not equal when a bunch of cheap dessies can take down a multi-billion freighter in hi-sec. The gankers need to put out more if they want to gank in hi-sec IMO.

By "dessies" I'm assuming you mean Destroyers, right?

The data that people don't consider about suicide ganking is that it is a huge cost to the gankers. They must sit around and scope out targets for up to hours at a time. Once they get a target, they will incur a guaranteed loss and will not always get loot from the freighter gank. I'm sure if you pulled up MINILUV kills in high sec, you'd see plenty that didn't drop any loot. Thus, this isn't a "profitable" venture in high sec, which is why it isn't rampant.

Furthermore, once they've ganked several times, there is the cost of having to grind out security standings back to acceptable levels. It's a rather lengthy process that requires good logistics, which is why the entire goon community does not suicide gank.

Some people just want to run missions all day and that is fine, but if there is ever an instance with zero risk, then that only hurts the economy as a whole. If you start getting tens/hundreds/thousands of people doing this activity that has zero risk, then that is when you would start seeing rampant inflation, botting, etc. Destruction leads to consumption, which is good for everyone except the guy that just got blown up.

If there were a way to allow people to run missions but they had to pay a 50% tax, they would likely stop doing that and whine about how it's unfair that they only get 50% of the profit from doing zero risk activities. What most people don't realize is that your actual risk of being ganked in empire is a number approaching zero by default. That number goes up if you decide to fly an officer fit battleship in your missions, run an obvious multiboxed fleet of 50 mackinaws, or fly 30 bil worth of goods in your 1 bil isk freighter.

So yes, high sec ganking mechanics are dumb. But they're only an actual risk to players if they are also dumb or lazy. You only hear about high sec ganking because people yell really loud when they get ganked in high sec- you don't hear from the thousands of high sec dwellers that go about their normal, unabiding, routine on a daily basis.

I don't believe organizing an alliance group to gank in dessies are equivalent to the amount of loss to an Industrialist losing a multi-billion hull along with whatever she had in that hull (which can be billions too). This will especially be true regarding rigged ships.

Yes - it does take effort to organize a large gank group. But is equivalent - nope.

Losing a few hundred million ISK destroyers to a multi-billion freighter in hi-sec is not equivalent. And the Industrialist who put time into Eve getting the billions of ISK to get the freighter, and rig it - and whatever that freighter contained - considerable amount of work and effort. It is not lazy as you imply.

It's easier in Eve to put together and fly a cheap destroyer than it is to buy, fill up and use a freighter. Not everyone has billions of ISK to spend or spends the time shipping in a freighter.

You are correct, the ganker is not responsible for that. What they are responsible for is pulling the trigger.

Or are you telling me that victim blaming suddenly became a valid argument and that you believe such things like women are responsible for sexual assault because they didn't dress appropriately?

If there is a better to win that particular point, then please by all means share. I'd love to hear it.

I won't hold my breath waiting for it though.

Well if i had actually insinuated that my opponent was a rapist then I would consider my argument a bad one. But considering that's not even remotely close to what I did, means I don't.

Nope, I actually re-read the statement several times within the last 5 minutes just to ensure that what I'm being accused of didn't actually happen and every way that I look at it, what you accused me of is not possible.

Done. Now, I completely understand why you are offended by my argument. I'm not saying saying the case I made wasn't extreme. But it was extreme on purpose. The argument that many gankers have made that its the victims fault that they got killed is as equally offensive an extreme to me. I know of no other example that is not as equally extreme that would convey how vile the argument that the victim is at fault for anything is.

I'd also like to point out that all of your examples to date are pretty disingenuous. For starters the participants of both tic tac toe and chess are playing under the guise that there will be a winner and a loser. On the other hand a person playing in hi sec is under the guise that his game time should be allowed to be spent playing the game in a solo manner if he so chooses.

In a ship so huge, why there would be no drone bay?

cloak in highs, 2 pith as and 2 lses and gist x mwd in mids, 2 1600 faction plates, 4 x type harderners and dcs in low.....it would be more with shield rigs...overheated 300k ehp

Again all true. But given that the distinction between pirate and griefer can be rather grey and confusing to new players, there is a reason that Eve has the rep it does.

Who said anything about newbies flying the freighters? I was implying that the newbie would be flying the webbing frigate and would be wondering why something like that would necessary for safety...