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Still Hart Repo Industries	Posted - 2006.08.29 00:15:00 - [1] Is it true that most ships can't warp when triple webbed? I've heard this is because they can't turn to align, I've also heard that you need to be going faster than 1cm/s to be able to warp. Is there any truth to the rumors? _____________________
vyperpit Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2006.08.29 00:17:00 - [2] Originally by: Still Hart Is it true that most ships can't warp when triple webbed? I've heard this is because they can't turn to align, I've also heard that you need to be going faster than 1cm/s to be able to warp. Is there any truth to the rumors? test it out and let us know
lofty29 Gallente Tolarri Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.08.29 00:18:00 - [3] Originally by: Still Hart Is it true that most ships can't warp when triple webbed? I've heard this is because they can't turn to align, I've also heard that you need to be going faster than 1cm/s to be able to warp. Is there any truth to the rumors? They can, but it takes a long time to align. However, My 6 web scorp almost stops people being able to warp --------------------------- Originally by: inSpirAcy Just like a tumour, the Brutix grows on you.
Shamis Orzoz SniggWaffe	Posted - 2006.08.29 00:19:00 - [4] Not sure, but I would believe it. If you put enough cargo expanders on a dread to slow his top speed down to zero then he can't warp. So I would assume that if you put enough webbers to get someone's speed down to <.5 m/s it would probably just get rounded down to 0 and they wouldn't be able to warp. 3 90% Webs should take your average bs down to a top speed of about .15 m/s...which is quite possibly going to be rounded to zero, preventing warp. I've not tested any of this, but if I ever get out of the office today I definitely will. Shamis
Supay Caldari ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.29 00:20:00 - [5] Doesn't sound right to me, your max speed does not define when you warp, you just need to be at a certain percentage of your speed to warp. Also, webbing reduces your forward velocity, I don't think that it affects your ability to turn. In fact, webbing can sometimes be dangerous as you reduce their max speed and if they were coming up to a warp, your reduction of their max speed means they may be closer to the required % speed to enter warp. This happens frequently when people web slower ships trying to get up to speed before a warp disruptor has been applied.
Shamis Orzoz SniggWaffe	Posted - 2006.08.29 00:22:00 - [6] Originally by: Supay Doesn't sound right to me, your max speed does not define when you warp, you just need to be at a certain percentage of your speed to warp. Also, webbing reduces your forward velocity, I don't think that it affects your ability to turn. In fact, webbing can sometimes be dangerous as you reduce their max speed and if they were coming up to a warp, your reduction of their max speed means they may be closer to the required % speed to enter warp. This happens frequently when people web slower ships trying to get up to speed before a warp disruptor has been applied. Web a freighter that is pointed 180 degrees away from what he wants to warp towards. It will take him Forever to align. Yes you have to be at a certain percentage of your speed to warp (and you have to be aligned), but the real question is will EVE consider 0 m/s 80% of 0m/s?
lofty29 Gallente Tolarri Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.08.29 00:23:00 - [7] Originally by: Supay Doesn't sound right to me, your max speed does not define when you warp, you just need to be at a certain percentage of your speed to warp. Also, webbing reduces your forward velocity, I don't think that it affects your ability to turn. In fact, webbing can sometimes be dangerous as you reduce their max speed and if they were coming up to a warp, your reduction of their max speed means they may be closer to the required % speed to enter warp. This happens frequently when people web slower ships trying to get up to speed before a warp disruptor has been applied. You turn at 25% speed fastest, if it hits below about 1% its very hard to turn. --------------------------- Originally by: inSpirAcy Just like a tumour, the Brutix grows on you.
Vathar Elegance	Posted - 2006.08.29 00:32:00 - [8] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Web a freighter that is pointed 180 degrees away from what he wants to warp towards. It will take him Forever to align. Webbing a freighter instawarps her. It's a commonly used trick to make them travel faster. However, I don't know if it works with a freighter so far away from warp-alignment. And being webbed does slow your turning rate, try getting away from a dual webbing thorax if you're flying a ceptor! You'll end up very dead before you're even remotely aligned! _ Originally by: Stamm Minmatar are kind of like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair firing an uzi
Nebuli Caldari Art of War	Posted - 2006.08.29 00:35:00 - [9] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Originally by: Supay Doesn't sound right to me, your max speed does not define when you warp, you just need to be at a certain percentage of your speed to warp. Also, webbing reduces your forward velocity, I don't think that it affects your ability to turn. In fact, webbing can sometimes be dangerous as you reduce their max speed and if they were coming up to a warp, your reduction of their max speed means they may be closer to the required % speed to enter warp. This happens frequently when people web slower ships trying to get up to speed before a warp disruptor has been applied. Web a freighter that is pointed 180 degrees away from what he wants to warp towards. It will take him Forever to align. Yes you have to be at a certain percentage of your speed to warp (and you have to be aligned), but the real question is will EVE consider 0 m/s 80% of 0m/s? You are incorrect about the freighter webbing, having done hundreds of freighter escorts through 0.0 etc I can say for sure this is incorrect, get the freighter to warp to its insta after jumping into a system, the second it uncloaks web it and it will instantly warp regardless of the direction it is facing. CEO - Art of War
Vathar Elegance	Posted - 2006.08.29 00:43:00 - [10] In fact, he is not strictly wrong, the freighter WILL take ages to align, but since she will warp unaligned, who cares? _ Originally by: Stamm Minmatar are kind of like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair firing an uzi
Bombasy Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.29 00:43:00 - [11] Edited by: Bombasy on 29/08/2006 00:44:43 Originally by: Nebuli Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Originally by: Supay Doesn't sound right to me, your max speed does not define when you warp, you just need to be at a certain percentage of your speed to warp. Also, webbing reduces your forward velocity, I don't think that it affects your ability to turn. In fact, webbing can sometimes be dangerous as you reduce their max speed and if they were coming up to a warp, your reduction of their max speed means they may be closer to the required % speed to enter warp. This happens frequently when people web slower ships trying to get up to speed before a warp disruptor has been applied. Web a freighter that is pointed 180 degrees away from what he wants to warp towards. It will take him Forever to align. Yes you have to be at a certain percentage of your speed to warp (and you have to be aligned), but the real question is will EVE consider 0 m/s 80% of 0m/s? You are incorrect about the freighter webbing, having done hundreds of freighter escorts through 0.0 etc I can say for sure this is incorrect, get the freighter to warp to its insta after jumping into a system, the second it uncloaks web it and it will instantly warp regardless of the direction it is facing. Funny I've done at least a dozen freighter escorts and if I web the freighter before it's nearly aligned it can take quite a long time to warp off (longer than 1 cycle of web, web on manual = win for escorting). What Shamis said is true, if a freighter is going the opposite direction of where it's warping to, if you web it it will take the same time to accelerate as if it wasn't webbed (ie. forever), but, more importantly, the turning rate will be screwed. (EDIT: there's 1 possibility tho, turning rates seem much higher with a 0 velocity vector, so when the freighter gets to 0 m/s it might turn quicker.) I do not think webs can stop warping off because even tho it's displayed as 0.0 m/s the engine might still take fractions into account. Dreads with expanders actually reduce speed by a fixed amount not a percent, thus why they can't warp off.
MysticNZ Solstice Systems Development Concourse	Posted - 2006.08.29 00:45:00 - [12] When I was in FE I used the web insta warp trick on freighters all the time... maybe it's changed. -=====-
Vathar Elegance	Posted - 2006.08.29 00:47:00 - [13] Originally by: Bombasy Funny I've done at least a dozen freighter escorts and if I web the freighter before it's nearly aligned it can take quite a long time to warp off (longer than 1 cycle of web, web on manual = win for escorting). What Shamis said is true, if a freighter is going the opposite direction of where it's warping to, if you web it it will take the same time to accelerate as if it wasn't webbed (ie. forever), but, more importantly, the turning rate will be screwed. I do not think webs can stop warping off because even tho it's displayed as 0.0 m/s the engine might still take fractions into account. Dreads with expanders actually reduce speed by a fixed amount not a percent, thus why they can't warp off. Huh, done a fair share of freighter escorts, and webbing a freighter has always made her instawarp! Though I admit I never noticed her having to do a full 180¦ turnaround, but I saw more than once a freighter warping backwards _ Originally by: Stamm Minmatar are kind of like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair firing an uzi
Vathar Elegance	Posted - 2006.08.29 00:48:00 - [14] Originally by: MysticNZ When I was in FE I used the web insta warp trick on freighters all the time... maybe it's changed. Done it two days ago, it still worked. _ Originally by: Stamm Minmatar are kind of like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair firing an uzi
Shamis Orzoz SniggWaffe	Posted - 2006.08.29 01:00:00 - [15] Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 29/08/2006 01:01:31 If you web a freighter before he is aligned (and by aligned, I mean sidewasy ) It will take longer for him to go to warp.
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.08.29 01:03:00 - [16] Ships are points in space, motion is independent of the graphic displayed on your client. There are several situations where you can see this, most notably when your ship does a 180 degree flip on some occasions, even carriers can do this instantly (though the graphic takes a while to catch up to the motion). --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Still Hart Repo Industries	Posted - 2006.08.29 01:20:00 - [17] Okay the subject of freighters aside, I was hoping to hear more about normal ships like BS/BC/Cruiser/T2 Frig. Guess I'll have to do some extensive testing and let you know. _____________________
Bombasy Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.29 02:07:00 - [18] Edited by: Bombasy on 29/08/2006 02:11:02 actually, case in point, noob webbers in freighter escorts will bump the freighter and prevent it from warping for quite a few seconds, even from a frigate bump.
Nebuli Caldari Art of War	Posted - 2006.08.29 02:24:00 - [19] Edited by: Nebuli on 29/08/2006 02:24:31 Originally by: Bombasy Edited by: Bombasy on 29/08/2006 02:11:02 actually, case in point, noob webbers in freighter escorts will bump the freighter and prevent it from warping for quite a few seconds, even from a frigate bump. Yep very true, which is why we generaly will use one of the long range webbing cruisers. But as for alligning of the literaly hundreds of systems I have done this in the only times it has failed is if you dont web it fast enough or bump it. On one of those rare occasions you dont web it fast enough unwebbing then re webbing it will always make it insta warp again. This is in my experiance anyway, and in the last 8-12 months has been quite extensive. CEO - Art of War
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.29 07:32:00 - [20] The thing I think most of you are missing here is the fact then a ship comes out from a gate jump it has no direction. The first direction it moves towards will be its direction. That is why when you web the ship as it's uncloaking to warp it will insta warp, as for as the server is concerned it is already exactly aligned. Now there is a bug or what ever you want to call it and that's the fact that while the ship has no real direction until it move it does have a graphical direction. And those 2 might not always corespond. This is why you see ships warping side ways.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.08.29 07:38:00 - [21] Originally by: Supay Doesn't sound right to me, your max speed does not define when you warp, you just need to be at a certain percentage of your speed to warp. Also, webbing reduces your forward velocity, I don't think that it affects your ability to turn. In fact, webbing can sometimes be dangerous as you reduce their max speed and if they were coming up to a warp, your reduction of their max speed means they may be closer to the required % speed to enter warp. This happens frequently when people web slower ships trying to get up to speed before a warp disruptor has been applied. if your max speed is 0m/s the 75% warp requirement is 0m/s aswell which makes you unable to warp because you're not accelerating (or in the worst case it'd be an instawarp cuz you're already @ 100% but I highly doubt that)
Ephemeron	Posted - 2006.08.29 08:06:00 - [22] Graphical representation of ship alignment is not always the same as physical alignment. When ships like freighters jump in system and select warp to insta, the physics engine will treat it as tho the ship is already facing right direction, even tho graphically it may be facing some other direction. The "take forever to warp" thing happens only if there was even the slightest movement in another direction when you web it.
Swamp Ziro Tengun	Posted - 2006.08.29 08:52:00 - [23] Ok , enough with the Freighters. You covered it 100% :) Now can we get a test about 3x or 4x webbers and how their rounding down works on warping?
Dexter Rast Dexter Rast Corp	Posted - 2006.08.29 09:20:00 - [24] rapiers and huginns have just doubled in price --------------------------------------------- Please resize your forum signature graphic to be smaller than 24,000 bytes in filesize - Jacques
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.29 11:01:00 - [25] Originally by: Dexter Rast rapiers and huginns have just doubled in price I expect more people to use them too now that Vaga prices have gone through the roof. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Arimai hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.08.29 12:33:00 - [26] When huginns first came out, we tried this. apoc + 3x 90% web gives it about 50 seconds before it warps if it's unaligned.
Reto The Last Resort	Posted - 2006.08.29 12:46:00 - [27] whats about dual webs on ceptors ? if i had 2 x5 webs and would web another ceptor could it still warp out before it goes pop ? (u may include some comparisons here aswell...for example ac claw and crow or similar) Originally by: s4mp3r0r "Hey man, you're mom has a cruise missile".
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.29 12:53:00 - [28] Originally by: Arimai When huginns first came out, we tried this. apoc + 3x 90% web gives it about 50 seconds before it warps if it's unaligned. Combine it with bumping and it becomes really fun... :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Shamis Orzoz SniggWaffe	Posted - 2006.08.29 14:01:00 - [29] I had a corp mate of mine test this last night. He says this doesn't work. I believe he put 4 webs on an indy, and it warped just fine. I'm not sure if he got its speed down to 1 cm/s though.
ian666 Minmatar Turbulent	Posted - 2006.08.30 12:00:00 - [30] It does work but on larger ships. e.g Tired on a rupture 3x webbers 90% still got into warp. Ferox 3x Web couldn't warp or align dead in the water, couldn't do anything bar shoot.

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