| Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
lVengyl
   |
Posted - 2006.08.30 22:02:00 -
[61]
I think There should do a golden rule, like your account has to be older then 9months or somthing to sell these time cards
Good post BUMP__>
|
Lauraa
|
Posted - 2006.08.30 22:17:00 -
[62]
useful post 
|
Thundercat Doom
Minmatar
Melissa Jumpclones INC
|
Posted - 2006.08.30 22:41:00 -
[63]
All one has to do is do a bit of research. As it was stated before, just pay attention, and use common sense. If the deal seems too good to be true, then move on to someone else. One thing about reading feedback people have left for sellers of GTCs. I was looking at sellers today, and one seller had "positive" feedback from a couple of people who were scamming the forums themselves, so it seemed very fishy. The scammers were the only ones that left the feedback on that character that was selling. Just pay attention, use common sense, and do some research before buying, then you should be fine. 
|
Stabbeta
|
Posted - 2006.08.30 23:01:00 -
[64]
can we get this stuck at the top by a GM please Very useful information against the scam attacks going on
|
McMillen
Gallente
Alaska-McMillens
|
Posted - 2006.08.30 23:36:00 -
[65]
Good job to those helping to protect against the scammers of the universe.
Lets keep it going don't give them an inch....
And lets keep this in the top slot....
|
Darkrydar
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.08.31 01:02:00 -
[66]
Why isn't this stickied yet?
|
Sovereign533
Caldari
133rd Ghost Wing
R i s e
|
Posted - 2006.08.31 01:04:00 -
[67]
or you could extend the "contracts" thingy commin out in Kali...
make a contract, he puts in the card, you put your money in... when it's both in, you have to accept and the card goes to you, and the isk to the seller... even trade...
(you could also make it some sort of verification process ingame... where the game checks if the timecard is valid or not)
|
voogru
Gallente
Massive Damage
|
Posted - 2006.08.31 01:18:00 -
[68]
Yay it's sticky now.
|
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.08.31 03:43:00 -
[69]
 Originally by: voogru
Yay it's sticky now.
yey
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Sayamana
|
Posted - 2006.08.31 05:59:00 -
[70]
There is already a way to sell code "ingame", its simply by renaming a bookmark with the code and sell it via escrow (will appear as a "voocher" and code seeable after the claim.
But ccp dont cover escrow scams...
|
ScarTissues
|
Posted - 2006.08.31 08:37:00 -
[71]
Yey for sticky and Joskken
|
Darkrydar
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.08.31 08:46:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Darkrydar on 31/08/2006 08:46:29
Its time to ban trial accounts from posting on the forums I think.
This is making a mockery of our forums and forum mods.
|
Lee Lab
|
Posted - 2006.08.31 08:47:00 -
[73]
I'm affraid the bookmark and escrow trick may guide to even more scams...
More important for me would be to see the guys flooding the forum with scam offers banned from forums - hey mods... are you sleeping or what? it can't be that hard to ban their ip's (or his/her ip as it seems to be one person)
|
Lee Lab
|
Posted - 2006.08.31 08:48:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Darkrydar
Its time to ban trial accounts from posting on the forums I think.
Signed!
That would be good - I doubt anyone would risk paid account.
|
Admiral Keyes
Minmatar
Ooops Inc.
|
Posted - 2006.08.31 16:14:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Admiral Keyes on 31/08/2006 16:15:35
Originally by: Darkrydar
Edited by: Darkrydar on 31/08/2006 08:46:29
Its time to ban trial accounts from posting on the forums I think.
This is making a mockery of our forums and forum mods.
Signed!!
Restrict trial accounts and less than 2 week old characters, so they are unable to post in the market section of the forums (View Only). Having dozens upon dozens of new day old characters, posting in the sell orders forum offering GTC's and other scams is just ridiculous. Why hide behind an alt character if they are selling genuine items.
I can understand people hiding behind an alt when posting in heated debates, cause your opinion might start a war etc... even i do that and ill admit to it, but not for selling stuff, no one cares who the character is, they just want the legitimate product.
Thats my opinion.
-----------------------------------
HaHaHa! This sig is edit proof! 
Sadly, it appears so. -Capsicum
\o/ I Am Invincible \o/ |
Fivetide
Amarr
Aur0ra
|
Posted - 2006.08.31 16:36:00 -
[76]
nother to the front.. gtc-sellers may end up to massive a thing tbh but ill put the ones I think r good sellers on the MOT as I said .
Don't fight a battle if you don't gain anything by winning
|Erwin Johannes Eugen Rommel|
|
Caerleus
Board of Twenty
|
Posted - 2006.08.31 18:12:00 -
[77]
GTC scamming would be considered in many countries as an illegal act under Fraud Prevention laws.
As the GTC is a 'physical' item with actual monetary value that can also be purchased online and thru physical shops, attempitng to scam a sale of is the same as credit card wire fraud, or , obtaining money and services thru deception.
The fact that the scammers are asking for ISk for the GTC is no legal protection, as this would be deemed a 'service' and still validates as a payment.
Blatant GTC scams are therefor not only against forum policies and the CCP Eve EULA, they are also illegal as long as 1 of three caveats is enforecable.:
1. The legal system of the buyer's country recognises and has laws preventing
and enforcing Fraud.
2. The legal system of the transaction site's (ie CCP's server the transaction takes place upon) country recognises and has laws preventing
and enforcing Fraud.
3. The legal system of the seller's country recognises and has laws preventing
and enforcing Fraud.
Therefore, if a GTC scammer comits an act, whereby he receives money but fails to provide a GTC, he is creating a criminal offence.
With this, CCP, once notified, should contact the authorities of the countries involved.
There is one caveat here...
Currently, all GTC threads make no mention of the word 'valid' or 'unused'.
Therefore, if you do get a GTC and it does not work, no crime has been comitted as you indeed do have a GTC.
Obtaining ISK (the 'service') without passing across a GTC, valid or not, would be a crime.
To geniune GTC sellers.
You need to add into either your topic thread name or thread itself that this is a 'valid', 'unused' or other term that would have legal standing informing the buyer that the GTC is legitimate (ie, is fit for purpose of extending gameplay).
This will have a two fold impact.
Firstly, your buyers will understand and identify a legitimate source and you will also then be protected yourselves from non payment by both CCP and legal bodies.
Secondly, scammers who insert such words to state legitimacy of the code will then be conducting a premeditated criminal act.
Please note that this is only valid for GTC's as they are the only products on the sell forums that actually have a real world, physical value.
At this stage, I would urge CCP to look into the exact legal ramifications of hosting GTC sales make a more formal announcement than my attempt above to state the law as it stands.
Eve is like a new girlfriend - you know its going down at some point, its just when and for how long. |
Cruel Fox
|
Posted - 2006.08.31 18:31:00 -
[78]
New role should be aplied! Sellers should transfare GTC first - buyer should typ it in imidiatlly - and if worked transfare the ISKs.
In this case:
- if GTC didnt work - buyer would stll have his ISKs and GM would not have any work geting it back!
- if GTC worked and buyer would not pay 4 it - then GMs can easy get the buyer since GTC would be ussed on normal account not trial.
- resaling of GTC forbithen
|
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.08.31 21:18:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Caerleus
GTC scamming would be considered in many countries as an illegal act under Fraud Prevention laws.
As the GTC is a 'physical' item with actual monetary value that can also be purchased online and thru physical shops, attempitng to scam a sale of is the same as credit card wire fraud, or , obtaining money and services thru deception.
There's no actual money involved. And I hate to say it but the fact they're asking for isk does give them 100% protection. They're scamming in a game world, using no out-of-game money or items since there's no actual game time code involved. If they asked you to send a game time code and they'd send payment after and then logged off once you sent the code, THAT would be theft by deception. Pretending to sell GTCs isn't illegal in any way.
It's possible that you could say that getting isk for the seller is deemed as a service, for which the payment is the game time code. I know that the ebay auctions of MMO items always say that you're actually paying them for the time it takes to get the items, not the items themselves. That is, that you're hiring them for cash to play the game for a while and make isk for you. That's plausible and I'd be interested to see what a lawyer would make of it but it's not relevant to GTC scams. Nobody has ever said that you're buying the game time code as a trade for time employed in an isk-making service. The devs simply allowed the trade of them for isk. They have no legal basis for it whatsoever.
What's happening here is just some people scamming for isk under the guise of selling an item with monetary value. Since no items are actually involved, it's enitrely a virtual scam within a game world. The only way it would be illegal is if Eve ISK is was a world currency or had an equivalence with a real currency - if it had value, legally. Eve ISK can NEVER, in a legal situation, have an equivalence to anything of monetary value in the real world. Not unless CCP specifically endorse trading money for isk.
Many korean games are not legally allowed to put in pvp where you can lose items because the items are purchased with actual money. If CCP allowed isk to be directly traded for money, piracy could be deemed to fall under real world laws and be considered theft. For that reason, they won't ever allow it and isk will never have a value in real money. Unless there is something of physical value involved (and imaginary Game Time Codes don't count), there's no crime. I'm sure the fact that we are even allowed to transfer characters for isk and trade game time codes and a few other out of game services for isk, and that it's offically allowed by the game creators, would give a lawyer a real headache to sort out. To be honest, I'm not even 100% sure of what I've said above.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.08.31 21:19:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Nyphur on 31/08/2006 21:19:31
Originally by: Cruel Fox
New role should be aplied! Sellers should transfare GTC first - buyer should typ it in imidiatlly - and if worked transfare the ISKs.
In this case:
- if GTC didnt work - buyer would stll have his ISKs and GM would not have any work geting it back!
- if GTC worked and buyer would not pay 4 it - then GMs can easy get the buyer since GTC would be ussed on normal account not trial.
- resaling of GTC forbithen
In this case, point #1 makes scams impossible, which is good. Point #2 involves a real world crime of theft by deception and requires the authorities to be informed, which is a bother. And point #3 is a rule which is utterly and entirely unenforcable.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Cruel Fox
|
Posted - 2006.08.31 21:44:00 -
[81]
ok - was just few of mine thoughts - then lets stick to #1 ;)
|
Bill Shankly
|
Posted - 2006.08.31 21:46:00 -
[82]
Surely that dude that has been spamming all day can get ip banned or something. Letting him keep at it is just asking for it.
|
Caerleus
Board of Twenty
|
Posted - 2006.08.31 21:48:00 -
[83]
I beg to difer Nyphur, and I shall try my best to show why.
A Game Time Card has two components, the physical card and the Game Time Code.
When you purchase a GT Card from CCP or a retailer in a physical manner, you pay a monetary value for it, for example ú15 for a 30 day card.
Now..The Card itself does not entitle you to the 30 day access to the Eve Server, its the Game Time Code that is on the Card that you must use.
The Card , although the physical entity that was purcased for RL cash, is merely a vehicle to physically move the actually item of worth, which in this case, is the Game Time Code.
When someone sets up an auction for a Game Time Code (as Cards cannot be physically sent over the forums) they are indeed creating an oppourtunity to purchase that code, which the seller believes entitles them to , in the example of a 30 day code and my figure above, 30 days of server activity which has an RL monetary value of ú15.
Just because the scammer has decided he wants ISK as the trade, a fictious currency with no inherrent value, it still creates a contract, in the order of "give me 100million isk which i know has no RL value and I will give you a code which was purchased for ú15 and will allow you connect to the server in the same manner as if you had physically bought it yourself for a period of 30 days".
Therein, the link between ISK and RL cash is established, even if ISK itself has no value.
It is the same as if someone tried to sell a car for 5 million sweet wrappers.
If the buyer hands over 5million sweet wrappers and the seller walks off with them without handing over the advertised car, that is fraud.
The closest relationship would be to mobile phone Pre Pay Top Up Vouchers.
When you purchase a top up card, you are entering a contract that says that your RL money will be swapped for the mechanism on the card that entitles you to that much credit.
If I decide to advertise this mechanism/code for sale for 500 badgers and someone gave them to me, if i did not supply them with the code, correct and unused, it would be fraud.
It matters not what the payment is, it is the fact that the expectation of the product is an actual item that has RL value.
Eve is like a new girlfriend - you know its going down at some point, its just when and for how long. |
Cuttlefish
|
Posted - 2006.09.01 00:51:00 -
[84]
to be honest ..... CCP supporting the GTC for ISK will not last long due to the few that ruin it for everyone, we need something seperate from these forums that only allows honest and well known traders of TC to sell on there. I know many ppl that i have bought a TC from that are honest and trustworthy...
if nothing comes up in these next few days for a resolution to this problem, i will make a site myself for the sole purpose of selling eve TC for isk with only respected and well known member of the eve TC community.
As i rely on these TC for ISK to keep my alts going i would be disapointed to see them go.
Lets make a stand against this bull****, and lets not let scammers ruin our game !!!
As stated before if nothing comes from this thread in the next few days i will start a website to sell this TC authentically with proper traders for ISK!
|
Zipp0ny
Caldari
The Eleventh Commandment
|
Posted - 2006.09.01 01:05:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Snodgey
Edited by: Snodgey on 29/08/2006 12:54:31
Unfortunately I was scammed if you will , worse still it wasn't my isk I used but a friends , I knew before I looked here to check characters name and age his name seemed thought out and not gibberish , he was only a day old but he said he could get someone to verify he had good GTC codes , so he does , the friend has a proper name and is in a 15man corp and has been playing for a good 6 months and says he got a good code.
Being on a trial account and the GTC being for my actual main I tell my friend to trust this this guy , to be honest it did seemed too good to be true offer but I got played and lost my friend 100mil for a 30day GTC . I'll eventually get my main back online and seek retribution on the scammers so called friend. So if you will keep these names in mind :
Game Time Card seller : Hayek Taxum - noob corp
Game Time Card sellers friend : Zipp0ny - The Eleventh Commandment
To the mods , if the naming and shaming is inappropiate plz delete the names only. Petition will be following now , scam happened lastnight but was very late and had no time.
Let's just get something squared away. I did scam Charlie using older than dirt EULA Legal tactics,
Charlie just wants to get even at me so he asked me to do a favor by saying what's noted below, then drags me into a convo with complete strangers.
Hayek Taxum > Zippony has bought a gtc earlier today
Zipp0ny > ya the 90 day gtc
This is the only thing I said in regarding GTC, infact I promptly leave convo as it all looks wierd.
Next thing Charlie says his alt is transfering 200 million to me to hold for him. I accepted it thinking I just scammed more isk off of Charlie. Charlie or his alt/buddy petitions for a GTC scam. Suddenly 200 million just disappears from my wallet and system warning message from a GM arrives in my mailbox.
|
Clamn8er
The Eleventh Commandment
|
Posted - 2006.09.01 01:12:00 -
[86]
I'd like to point out that Snodgey is a 13 day old account in an NPC corp that's about to expire later today. What I'd like to know is where that 13 day old account got 200 mil?
This whole thing stinks, an orchestrated social engineering scam all to get even with Zippony, in game and now on the boards.
I was there during the whole thing, feel free ask any questions.
Our corp is made of good friends and we role play villians. We have fun at it and nobody is stupid enough to break EULA. Friggin Bullcrap that some sore loser (Charlie Narda and alts) has to abuse the petition system so he think he can "win" at something in Eve. Sucks to be you.... |
alon blackhelm
|
Posted - 2006.09.01 01:20:00 -
[87]
Edited by: alon blackhelm on 01/09/2006 01:23:31
why dont ppl post the name of who rip them off fot gtc that way the name is dead and no one will try to buy one from that person
|
Jalvon Ryder
|
Posted - 2006.09.01 01:55:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Jalvon Ryder on 01/09/2006 02:00:18
Originally by: alon blackhelm
Edited by: alon blackhelm on 01/09/2006 01:23:31
why dont ppl post the name of who rip them off fot gtc that way the name is dead and no one will try to buy one from that person
That's assuming that every name posted here is associated with a GTC scammer, which might not be the case as Clamn8er and Zipp0ny are saying....
Originally by: Clamn8er
I'd like to point out that Snodgey is a 13 day old account in an NPC corp that's about to expire later today. What I'd like to know is where that 13 day old account got 200 mil?
This whole thing stinks, an orchestrated social engineering scam all to get even with Zippony, in game and now on the boards.
I was there during the whole thing, feel free ask any questions.
Our corp is made of good friends and we role play villians. We have fun at it and nobody is stupid enough to break EULA. Friggin Bullcrap that some sore loser (Charlie Narda and alts) has to abuse the petition system so he think he can "win" at something in Eve. Sucks to be you....
Another thing is the availability of trial accounts and the ?possibility of deleting the toon and making a new one. With trial accounts, you'll end up with a lot more names which no one would have encountered.
Wouldn't mind a separate channel for GTC only...less spam in Sell Orders....granted the real GTC sellers would have to deal with the excessive spam in that channel, making it almost impossible to sell GTC.
EDIT:
In addition, not replying to the scams might allow those threads to fall further down the sell order pages...every time someone makes a response, it brings those scams back to the first page.
|
Ieyasu Kurosawa
|
Posted - 2006.09.01 02:24:00 -
[89]
Logs also show when someone is invited into a channel, who invited them and when they left, they'll also record this other person telling Z to say these things. I'd petition them back, send an email with the information, and hopefully they'll ban the ISP of this 13 day old loser.
Ieyasu Kurosawa
|
hendo001
Caldari
Quantum Tech Mining
|
Posted - 2006.09.01 04:17:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Cuttlefish
to be honest ..... CCP supporting the GTC for ISK will not last long due to the few that ruin it for everyone, we need something seperate from these forums that only allows honest and well known traders of TC to sell on there. I know many ppl that i have bought a TC from that are honest and trustworthy...
if nothing comes up in these next few days for a resolution to this problem, i will make a site myself for the sole purpose of selling eve TC for isk with only respected and well known member of the eve TC community.
As i rely on these TC for ISK to keep my alts going i would be disapointed to see them go.
Lets make a stand against this bull****, and lets not let scammers ruin our game !!!
As stated before if nothing comes from this thread in the next few days i will start a website to sell this TC authentically with proper traders for ISK!
If You want I have webspace, I can make a subdomain/ftp account for you to use.
And I can install a forum for that too or just make a webpage with a list of names updated once/twice a week of legitimate gtc sellers.
Feel free to convo me in game
Visit the QTM forums Linkage
Also visit my blog Linkage |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |