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Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.29 12:49:00 - [31] Quote: But ofcourse the usual whiney suspects must spout their thought processes yet again so this thread really isn't going anywhere. I wish you could block certain people's posts as you can ingame. You don't have the will power to pass over a post you don't like? ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.29 12:53:00 - [32] Originally by: Bill Shankly why should you not get to play for free ? It's an MMO, monthly sub, if you can't afford it, you can't play... I'd like a Ford GT, I can't afford one, but I want one, so I should get one for free, because I'm me... Your attitude is a bit off if you can even ask that question and not see a problem with being able to play an MMO for free... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Bael'Zhaeron Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.29 12:54:00 - [33] Im sorry but the way i see it is that this removes the isk sales that is going on ebay atleast abit. It generates income for ccp which keeps people employed. When scamming comes into play it should be quite easy to fix for ccp, "just" make a module ingame which one person put in his GTC code and ccp verifies it and the buyer puts in the cash when both agree press accept. Dont need to be any harder then that. Might be able to to a simliar setup for character transfers, in where one makes a down payment for the character and the server only allows the character to be transferd to the person that made the deposit. In this case you dont loose out the entire sum of your money and makes it easier to track the cash. One thing that popps to mind is like in alliance forum dont allow ALT or characters younger then a month (or time that is appropiate) to post a sell order. Yes i know there are people wanting there name kept from the masses but to insure that scams dont occour this maybe a good solution.
nahtoh Caldari Bull Industries	Posted - 2006.08.29 12:59:00 - [34] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii I believe one of you head GM's once said "Real life circumstances should not further in game progression" I guesse you caved in to the $ factor. Alliaanna Fantastic so we can get rid of Mutlitipule accounts then?. Or ban character transfers as well while we are at its not like you can't take the time to train up a character support the skill buys with a main then sell it for ISK in pararell with a second account you are trading RL cash for ISK as well. Persoanlly I am in the need the GTC cards to play camp at the mo. ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
Bill Shankly	Posted - 2006.08.29 13:02:00 - [35] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Bill Shankly why should you not get to play for free ? It's an MMO, monthly sub, if you can't afford it, you can't play... I'd like a Ford GT, I can't afford one, but I want one, so I should get one for free, because I'm me... Your attitude is a bit off if you can even ask that question and not see a problem with being able to play an MMO for free... I think your atitudes a bit off to be honest, only a total ******** would begrudge some else getting something for free, Some people CANNOT afford to pay for entertainment as i mentioned before, why should they not have a means of enjoying life ? and the car thing is just stupid a car costs 1000s a GTC sod all.
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.08.29 13:06:00 - [36] Originally by: Bill Shankly Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Bill Shankly why should you not get to play for free ? It's an MMO, monthly sub, if you can't afford it, you can't play... I'd like a Ford GT, I can't afford one, but I want one, so I should get one for free, because I'm me... Your attitude is a bit off if you can even ask that question and not see a problem with being able to play an MMO for free... I think your atitudes a bit off to be honest, only a total ****** would begrudge some else getting something for free, Some people CANNOT afford to pay for entertainment as i mentioned before, why should they not have a means of enjoying life ? and the car thing is just stupid a car costs 1000s a GTC sod all. If someone cant afford the trivial amount of isk for a subscription charge... but CAN spend hours and hours grinding in a game to get free time then prehaps they could consider getting a job instead of using my hard earnt taxes. And to the guys telling me to STFU, and that it doesn't concern me. YES IT DOES, I play this game too morons and GTC's hurt the game ! Alliaanna** DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Caleb Paine Infinite Technologies	Posted - 2006.08.29 13:08:00 - [37] Originally by: Bhaal Quote: But ofcourse the usual whiney suspects must spout their thought processes yet again so this thread really isn't going anywhere. I wish you could block certain people's posts as you can ingame. You don't have the will power to pass over a post you don't like? Funny, how you are the one that picked up on it... Death smiles at us all, all a man can do is smile back.
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.29 13:09:00 - [38] Originally by: Bill Shankly Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Bill Shankly why should you not get to play for free ? It's an MMO, monthly sub, if you can't afford it, you can't play... I'd like a Ford GT, I can't afford one, but I want one, so I should get one for free, because I'm me... Your attitude is a bit off if you can even ask that question and not see a problem with being able to play an MMO for free... I think your atitudes a bit off to be honest, only a total ******** would begrudge some else getting something for free, Some people CANNOT afford to pay for entertainment as i mentioned before, why should they not have a means of enjoying life ? and the car thing is just stupid a car costs 1000s a GTC sod all. CCP never intended for ppl to buy GTC's for ISK. That in itself tells you that, you're not supposed to be getting their service for FREE... I'm not begrudging anyone... Something is broken, and it needs to be fixed, that's all... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.29 13:13:00 - [39] Originally by: Caleb Paine Originally by: Bhaal Quote: But ofcourse the usual whiney suspects must spout their thought processes yet again so this thread really isn't going anywhere. I wish you could block certain people's posts as you can ingame. You don't have the will power to pass over a post you don't like? Funny, how you are the one that picked up on it... I pass over many, but I also look for posts that I don't like so I can argue... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
mogwai Gallente BlackSun Enterprises Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.29 13:17:00 - [40] Originally by: Infinity Ziona EvE is 50c a day. Anyone who cant afford that cant afford a computer and internet access either. 50c a day cmon. There is NO reason for the GTC crap. I earn a decent amount irl but got hit badly with some 'unexpected bills', hence i went to gtc's. I know alot of ppl in the u.k in the same situation as me where playing eve via gtc is the best option. Look at it like this... eve paid by visa = ú30 p/month (3 accounts) internet access = ú17 p/month few beers for weekends = ú20 p/month total = 'roughly' ú67 per month (u.k prices) or, eve paid by gtc = FREE (apart from an enjoyable time playing the game i love earning isk) internet access = ú17 p/month few beers = ú20 p/month total = ú37 The spare ú30 a month instantly gets put to paying rl debts. Lose the gtc's from eve, you'll find ccp will lose a fair few accounts. I know of at least 40+ accounts running gtc's and that just in the circle of friends ingame.
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.29 13:21:00 - [41] Edited by: Bhaal on 29/08/2006 13:25:46 Quote: Lose the gtc's from eve, you'll find ccp will lose a fair few accounts. I know of at least 40+ accounts running gtc's and that just in the circle of friends ingame. And I find that to be quite a problem, and would think CCP would as well. However, maybe they don't, as they are allowing it to continue... I just hope the next MMO I get addicted to, does not allow this. Maybe I'll play some stocks, and the $$ I make off of that I'll use to buy GTC's and buy a ****load of ISK... When GTC's for ISK were first deemed acceptable, I bought a few & sold them, made a Freighter alt, bought a Freighter, and now make billions with him in empire... How fair is that to the EVE community? ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
mogwai Gallente BlackSun Enterprises Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.29 13:28:00 - [42] Originally by: Bhaal However, maybe they don't, as they are allowing it to continue... Dont get me wrong tho, i dont agree with long term usage of gtc's to pay for accounts, but for ppl with a small income of rl cash issues, they are a godsend tbh. Maybe if ccp implemented something like 'only X amount of timecards could be used on each account per annum' would give ppl like me the chance to pay the rl bills AND still get to enjoy eve. But while ccp are recieving the rl cash for the gtc's at source, you will never find an easy fix to it anyway.
Bill Shankly	Posted - 2006.08.29 13:29:00 - [43] Originally by: Bhaal Edited by: Bhaal on 29/08/2006 13:25:46 Quote: Lose the gtc's from eve, you'll find ccp will lose a fair few accounts. I know of at least 40+ accounts running gtc's and that just in the circle of friends ingame. When GTC's for ISK were first deemed acceptable, I bought a few & sold them, made a Freighter alt, bought a Freighter, and now make billions with him in empire... How fair is that to the EVE community? people that pay for there account with CC also do that, how is that any different ?
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.08.29 13:31:00 - [44] Originally by: Bill Shankly Originally by: Bhaal Edited by: Bhaal on 29/08/2006 13:25:46 Quote: Lose the gtc's from eve, you'll find ccp will lose a fair few accounts. I know of at least 40+ accounts running gtc's and that just in the circle of friends ingame. When GTC's for ISK were first deemed acceptable, I bought a few & sold them, made a Freighter alt, bought a Freighter, and now make billions with him in empire... How fair is that to the EVE community? people that pay for there account with CC also do that, how is that any different ? Do you honestly need that explaining too you Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.29 13:33:00 - [45] Edited by: Bhaal on 29/08/2006 13:33:19 Originally by: Bill Shankly Originally by: Bhaal Edited by: Bhaal on 29/08/2006 13:25:46 Quote: Lose the gtc's from eve, you'll find ccp will lose a fair few accounts. I know of at least 40+ accounts running gtc's and that just in the circle of friends ingame. When GTC's for ISK were first deemed acceptable, I bought a few & sold them, made a Freighter alt, bought a Freighter, and now make billions with him in empire... How fair is that to the EVE community? people that pay for there account with CC also do that, how is that any different ? Yeah, but they play the game, work towards the ISK to buy the Freighter, build up the capital to trade large quantities of T2 items, etc... That's certainly different than going to shattered crystal, getting a few GTC's, spending a few minutes on the sell orders forum with an alt, bingo, 1 bill ISK, after NO WORK in game, only using RL $$ to make it happen... Hey, if that is deemed acceptable, fine... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Andargor theWise Disbelievers of Fate	Posted - 2006.08.29 13:38:00 - [46] Being a businessman, I still scratch my head at the concept of GTCs. The purpose of any business venture is to make a profit, and GTCs seem to be some sort of marketing ploy. CCP employees are not paid in ISK, and players that use ISK to play do not contribute to the flow of cash. In fact, they are using resources without paying for them. They log on and play, using system resources. They file petitions, using human resources. And so on. You could even say that such players are motivated to use up resources at an even greater rate to be able to sustain their "playing rights". So, business-wise, GTCs seem to be intended to provide greater accessibility by alternative payment methods, to provide more paying subscribers. It is not a social service to freely provide gaming privileges for anyone. That is why ISK for GTCs seems wrong to me, it is not their intended use. /flame suit on -
mogwai Gallente BlackSun Enterprises Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.29 13:45:00 - [47] Edited by: mogwai on 29/08/2006 13:45:39 Originally by: Andargor theWise Being a businessman, I still scratch my head at the concept of GTCs. The purpose of any business venture is to make a profit, and GTCs seem to be some sort of marketing ploy. /flame suit on i think you misunderstand the gtc's... what happens is that person A buys a gtc from ccp for rl cash, person B buys that gtc from person A for isk. CCP still get thier rl cash.
Kalaan Oratay The Imperial Commonwealth	Posted - 2006.08.29 13:47:00 - [48] Tying a store bought GTC to a specific account sounds like a good idea tbh. You shouldnt be able to buy yourself ahead in this game (or any game) --- Originally by: Archilies Ignore what others say: Fit what you want, with what you have, whenever you want.
Andargor theWise Disbelievers of Fate	Posted - 2006.08.29 13:50:00 - [49] Originally by: mogwai Edited by: mogwai on 29/08/2006 13:45:39 Originally by: Andargor theWise Being a businessman, I still scratch my head at the concept of GTCs. The purpose of any business venture is to make a profit, and GTCs seem to be some sort of marketing ploy. /flame suit on i think you misunderstand the gtc's... what happens is that person A buys a gtc from ccp for rl cash, person B buys that gtc from person A for isk. CCP still get thier rl cash. Hmm. True. They are however not getting any additional subscribers, just people selling more GTCs. In the end, its the same amount of cash, but not viable in the long term. And self-fueling. I just don't see the advantage to CCP in having what amounts to subscription brokers. -
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.29 13:52:00 - [50] Originally by: mogwai Edited by: mogwai on 29/08/2006 13:45:39 Originally by: Andargor theWise Being a businessman, I still scratch my head at the concept of GTCs. The purpose of any business venture is to make a profit, and GTCs seem to be some sort of marketing ploy. /flame suit on i think you misunderstand the gtc's... what happens is that person A buys a gtc from ccp for rl cash, person B buys that gtc from person A for isk. CCP still get thier rl cash. I think it's just breeding the wrong kind of attitude towards this MMO... I'm against buying GTC's to get ISK in-game, I've done it, it felt very wrong... It's a temptation that can be hard to resist. I can work 5 hours OT every week and turn that into 2 bill ISK, every week! Hell, it's easier for me to make the ISK that way than 5 hours in-game... It's also getting a lot of players used to playing for ISK... I think that's bad for those players when all of a sudden things change and GTC's for ISK is no longer an option... It just smells bad, and you know you're doing something bad when you use GTC's in this manner, I know I did... It makes you feel very guilty... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
St Dragon Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.29 13:54:00 - [51] Personally i like the idea of being able to buy my eve time with isk. ----------------------------------------------- "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.29 13:58:00 - [52] Originally by: St Dragon Personally i like the idea of being able to buy my eve time with isk. Hell, working a bit of OT so I can make some billions of ISK so that when I log on I can spend the ISK and never have to earn any in-game sounds nice too huh? Doesn't make it right... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Bill Shankly	Posted - 2006.08.29 14:11:00 - [53] And it only makes it wrong if, like you, you choose to keep making a point of it, im personally glad its irratating you.
Will Steel	Posted - 2006.08.29 14:12:00 - [54] Originally by: Andargor theWise Originally by: mogwai Edited by: mogwai on 29/08/2006 13:45:39 Originally by: Andargor theWise Being a businessman, I still scratch my head at the concept of GTCs. The purpose of any business venture is to make a profit, and GTCs seem to be some sort of marketing ploy. /flame suit on i think you misunderstand the gtc's... what happens is that person A buys a gtc from ccp for rl cash, person B buys that gtc from person A for isk. CCP still get thier rl cash. Hmm. True. They are however not getting any additional subscribers, just people selling more GTCs. In the end, its the same amount of cash, but not viable in the long term. And self-fueling. I just don't see the advantage to CCP in having what amounts to subscription brokers. The advantage is that the cost of playing is better distributed amongst the masses(if player A cannot afford to play, then he/she will trade game resource X to player B for more game time). Thus more people are able to play. Thus CCP recieves a greater income. EVE growth = CCP growth = player base happiness increase (in a perfect world devoid of system bugs)
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.29 14:16:00 - [55] Originally by: Bill Shankly And it only makes it wrong if, like you, you choose to keep making a point of it, im personally glad its irratating you. So robbing a bank is ONLY wrong if you keep making a point of it? If you keep quiet, it's ok? ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Bill Shankly	Posted - 2006.08.29 14:20:00 - [56] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Bill Shankly And it only makes it wrong if, like you, you choose to keep making a point of it, im personally glad its irratating you. So robbing a bank is ONLY wrong if you keep making a point of it? If you keep quiet, it's ok? ofc not, is making a few isk on a game the same as robbing a bank ? The majority of people DONT do that anyway, why punish those that NEED to use GTC when its only a few scammers that actually take advantage of it ?
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.29 14:25:00 - [57] Edited by: Bhaal on 29/08/2006 14:26:27 Originally by: Bill Shankly Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Bill Shankly And it only makes it wrong if, like you, you choose to keep making a point of it, im personally glad its irratating you. So robbing a bank is ONLY wrong if you keep making a point of it? If you keep quiet, it's ok? ofc not, is making a few isk on a game the same as robbing a bank ? The majority of people DONT do that anyway, why punish those that NEED to use GTC when its only a few scammers that actually take advantage of it ? Wait, so you're saying that making ISK from RL cash is scamming, but buying game time for ISK is not? Who do you think you buy the GTC's from? Taking advantage of it means making the ISK with no in-game effort, or playing for free... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Jags Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.29 14:26:00 - [58] GTC should be banned ,simple as that. SO easy to exploit the system and make RL cash out of a game its a nonsense. Sell stuff in game for ISK , buy GTC for ISK from seller , sell GTC code on Ebay = easy cash. Or - buy GTC with fraudulent credit card , sell GTC for ISK , buy one from another reseller , sell GTC code on ebay = cash and money successfully laundered. Not difficult to work out why this is ****ing a lot of players off is it ? Can guarantee that this is being used by "farmers" to generate an untraceable way to turn ISK into cash. Im sure CCP never intended it to work this way and will block it when they can find a suitable replacement for it. I agree with Bhaal in that GTC should be sold to a specific account only. CCP should sell directly IMO and cut out the middle man.
Annya Avishnaya Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2006.08.29 14:30:00 - [59] Originally by: nahtoh Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii I believe one of you head GM's once said "Real life circumstances should not further in game progression" I guesse you caved in to the $ factor. Alliaanna Fantastic so we can get rid of Mutlitipule accounts then?. Or ban character transfers as well while we are at its not like you can't take the time to train up a character support the skill buys with a main then sell it for ISK in pararell with a second account you are trading RL cash for ISK as well. Persoanlly I am in the need the GTC cards to play camp at the mo. QFT! I love how people ignored this post. "Real life circumstances should not further in game progression" Now how many people have hauler alts for their mining characters, or have a freighter alt to afk-make-iskies all day. Why should a 3 year old character with a 3 year old alt be able to sell that alt for 20$ RL cash and gain a couple billion iskies, but people can't sell a GTC to get a quick buck if they need it? If you want to ban ways to stop this statement: "Real life circumstances should not further in game progression" then you'd better damn well ban every way of allowing that to happen, including character trades, GTC's, and multiple accounts. Originally by: Joshua Foiritain The people you dont trust arent the ones you should worry about.
Khemul	Posted - 2006.08.29 14:32:00 - [60] It would seem the general arguement against GTC comes down to "I don't like that I pay and others don't." Seems a bit selfish honestly. So because you don't use GTCs no one else should. Some people might have trouble paying the monthly fee for whatever reason. Just because you can afford it doesn't mean you should condemn these people. Eliminating GTCs will do nothing to ISK selling or scamming. Just because a few people abuse the system doesn't mean it should be eliminated otherwise we'd eliminate half the game. People abuse can-flagging, should we eliminate it? People abuse the insurance system to gank haulers in high-sec, should we eliminate fighting in high-sec? People abuse escrow, should we eliminate escrow? People abuse bookmarks.....well nevermind there. Come up with a reason GTCs actually hurt the game, then argue rather than saying "I don't like it!" or "It can be exploited!". I don't like mining...doesn't mean I'm gonna call for it's ban from the game.

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