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xeom
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.08.30 03:27:00 -
[31]
Yea cloaks are useless now.Everyone plz escrow your cloaks to me at rock bottum price's.
CCP where are our t2 shield power relays? |
Eudoxus
Ars Caelestis
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Posted - 2006.08.30 05:44:00 -
[32]
I was initially thinking this was bad but not that bad. I mean, I can stick in nanos for a quicker align post getting cloaked on arrival in a new system and warping away. At worst I will use more nanos and probably more of the modules every loves to complain about - wcs.
Catch is, I think my fastest locking ship is 2ish seconds (sensor boostersx2) on my bomber locking enemy frigs (or faster on cruisers which really hurts force recon) and I assume other people have even faster lockers. Even with right clicking in space to get the warp going to your safespot (or next gate or whereever you are going) from the initial 'freebie' cloak on arrival in the system, I don't think the covops let alone the force recon aligns anywhere near that fast (short of a lucky alignment on arrival in system). This means covops/force recon seem quite likely to be 'sucker' ships for the pilots - ie I would have to be a sucker to want to fly one. As mentioned, even a slow locker is likely to have a very good shot at decloaking you - and then you are scrammed and dead (hmmm, forget nanos, all wcs in lows!). I have not run into a problem...yet...but probably just a matter of time, especially now that word of this 'feature' gets around.
If this feature is to stay, where is the buff then? Since an enemy can be targetting a ship that has already disappeared and then actually lock this disappeared ship (without it even knowing it is being targetted!), that seems to me to be modules working in hostile manner on invisible ships. So, from that would follow that cloaked ships should be able to use modules on visible ships with ease (that would have to be a much easier thing to do than the other way around right?). So how about covops can be cloaked, sit on a gate, web, warp scramble and sensor damp enemies without their knowledge while their enemies are camping the gate (I mean, you can target and then lock an invisbible ship without its knowledge so quid quo pro right?).
Oh, so that would be too uber? Well then please fix the neutering that this 'feature' would seem to be to this class of ship.
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Qberticus
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Posted - 2006.08.30 05:48:00 -
[33]
I sorta like having all thouse skill points wasted.
Makes me feel special.
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Kurtz
Minmatar
Eldorado Exploration Expedition
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Posted - 2006.08.30 06:02:00 -
[34]
A fiasco! Spectacu-Nerf!
Perhaps one of the devs can explain to us all now. How do you use and survive in a covert ops ship?
Tom B? I thought you liked the Covert ops?
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Rex Deus
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.30 06:12:00 -
[35]
Well I do try to be fair and give a balanced view of things. This is the way it is from my specific perspective.
1. I skilled for a long time towards using a pilgrim for solo piracy as it looked great.
2. There was a bug which seemingly couldn't be fixed quickly or easily so it became a 'feature'.
3. This turned my time skilling and my isk spent on the Pilgrim into a waste - not a total one but it is not that which i had planned for and it is now a considerably weakened setup.
Does this annoy me? Yes. A few indisputable facts for consideration.
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Death Merchant
InterGalactic Corp.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.08.30 06:24:00 -
[36]
Ok... um..trying to think of something that wont get me banned...
This is probably the biggest laziest piece of bull caca that Ive ever seen the devs on this game do.
Either fix it or just remove cloaks all together and give the ships diffrent bonuses.
"What happens in Deklien stays in Deklien". |
Doshu
Sturmgrenadier Inc
R i s e
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Posted - 2006.08.30 06:42:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Doshu on 30/08/2006 06:44:31
Edited by: Doshu on 30/08/2006 06:42:37
In SG we normally try not to post in flaming threads and participate in trash talk, but I have to agree. This new feature about cloaking does not make any sense, and renders covert op bombers completely useless. They were weak enough not being able to warp while cloaked, now they are completely useless.
About the conspiracy, I know that it was on the bug list, however unless you have some sort of proof about them turning this into a feature just because they cant fix it, I will have to give them the benefit of the doubt only if they can give a logical argument/reasoning on why they added this feature.
PS Opinions are for a$$holes, and the opinions posted above are in no way reflect the SG's standing on the subject.. (did I just call myself an a$$hole?)
SturmGrenadier
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Heikki
Gallente
Wreckless Abandon
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Posted - 2006.08.30 06:48:00 -
[38]
So far the posts seem to be have been of tune 'sky is falling, run!', without anyone actually going out to see if it really is coming down.
So, can you now semi-reliable start targetting a cov op that goes through jump->uncloak->cloak pattern (can't quite test it myself for quite a few hours)?
If true, sounds bad for a cov pilot, although nothing that drastic. Life goes on, just a bit harder to use covvies to get past tough camps. Even less use for recon ships as scout.
If it is a bug, it might get fixed one day. Otherwise just consider it as one of those balance modifications, and get used to it.
Now only if I was around Eve and could set buy orders for cloaks, I might also go on yelling 'hey, the sky really is coming down'.
-Lasse
who does have a damn lot of SPs focused on cov cloak usage
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Hayabusa Fury
Caldari
Wu-Tang Financial
Mordus Angels
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Posted - 2006.08.30 07:11:00 -
[39]
I am reminded of Star Wars Galaxies and the Creature Handler profession just before the NGE.
This is a Sony Online type of move, CCP. Good Job!!!
....*I need to go throw up now*
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"I can not recall the number of times my superior intellect has got me knee deep in ****!" --Harely Hayes |
Infrared Raven
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2006.08.30 07:50:00 -
[40]
 Originally by: Heikki
So far the posts seem to be have been of tune 'sky is falling, run!', without anyone actually going out to see if it really is coming down.
So, can you now semi-reliable start targetting a cov op that goes through jump->uncloak->cloak pattern (can't quite test it myself for quite a few hours)?
If true, sounds bad for a cov pilot, although nothing that drastic. Life goes on, just a bit harder to use covvies to get past tough camps. Even less use for recon ships as scout.
Pre-Patch, when the covert/recon pilot aligns and hits his cloaking device after jumpin, all attempts to lock it were interrupted, even if you could see him for a short time until he disappeared.
Post-Patch, when the covert/recon pilot aligns and hits his cloaking device after jumpin, all attempts to lock it are NOT interrupted, until he finishes his cloaking and disappears. So your friendly gatecamper has a window of 2-3 seconds (+/- lag) to lock you, which is enuff for a interceptor to lock a reconcruiser or a interceptor with sensorboosters to lock a covert-ops.
Plus, there is a display bug (but thats only a display bug), where your cloaking device flashes green, but the interceptor-guy already has a nice yellow bracket around him.
Originally by: Heikki
If it is a bug, it might get fixed one day. Otherwise just consider it as one of those balance modifications, and get used to it.
Unfortunately, it's not like this makes it harder for ships with a covert-ops cloaking to escape, this change makes it impossible to escape (specially for reconcruisers) even from the smallest gatecamps.
Before the patch, there was a chance that you could escape camps with interdictors / mobile warp disruptors, by cloaking and flying out of range -> warp. Forget that now...
FUBAR, FUBAR, FUBAR...
For Caracal, Thorax, Blackbird, Vexor, Osprey, Maller, Rupture and more Cruiser BPOs - Contact me. |
Akhual
1st Royal Marines
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Posted - 2006.08.30 08:01:00 -
[41]
What really hurts is the fact that I just finished training recon to lvl 5 - thats a rank 6 skill...
Feels like a major kick in the gonads!
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.08.30 09:05:00 -
[42]
Covops cloaked ships are still the only reliable way to get a spot on an enemy fleet to warp in at or such. They'll still be used, they're just poor on the way through gates now.
You know what's funny? Despite the fact that Covops cloaks will now be much much worse, their price is going to go up, because so many more are going to be destroyed and demand will be driven up.
The days of a cheap covops alt are gone. Get ready for some hardcore Ark mining to pay for your alt's ships :P
Scrapheap Challenge!
Liverpool Eve CCG Tournament, 02/09/06!
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Damien Smith
Turbulent
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Posted - 2006.08.30 09:50:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Damien Smith on 30/08/2006 09:51:18
We've encountered this bug while on a gatecamp (yeah, sad I know but piwats have to eat too) not too long ago. We spotted something on the overview, ctrl-clicked it. As soon as our lock completed (from a battleship I might add) the ship model appeared, we heard the uncloak sound and we realised it was a recon ship.
We found out about the cloak bug shortly after and sent the guy an eve mail with the details and advised him to petition it, as losing a ship to a bug that shouldn't have happened is just lame.
For those people who aren't really understanding this bug, and think that you shouldn't be able to cloak at all while the lock is counting down, check this little situation out:
You're flying a stealth bomber, the default fit of which is a couple of sensor damps, among other things. The idea is that you uncloak and damp the target, and their lock takes so long that you're able to fire at them and recloak before their lock completes, cancelling their lock. You then reposition your ship and repeat, uncloaking, damping them, firing and cloaking before they obtain a lock.
All that happens now is you uncloak, damp, fire, and even after you recloak their lock still counts down. As soon as they obtain their lock they blow your little friggy out of the sky.
The same goes for the Arazu too, the Pilgrim, Rook, Helios, Manticore, Nemesis, basically any ship that uses a cloak is now screwed.
My covert ops will be staying docked until this is fixed.
-----------
Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie)
Mission running carebears drop good loot. Probe one out today! |
Verus Potestas
Caldari
Fiat Mort
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Posted - 2006.08.30 10:17:00 -
[44]
Tux posted, change not happening.
Cloak back to the old ways.
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ELECTR0FREAK
Eye of God
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.08.30 10:18:00 -
[45]
To save Tuxford some trouble...
Originally by: Tuxford
About the cloaking issue. There has been a little in house misunderstanding. The problem is that the way cloaking works now is that if you are being targetted but aren't locked you can cloak but the lock attempt isn't broken so when you're locked you get uncloaked but there is a bug where the uncloaking visual effect isn't performed so you happily think you're still cloaked.
The fix in the patch notes and the one Kieron mentioned fixes the issue of not seeing you uncloak. However cloaks didn't use to work this way, if nobody had you locked when you cloaked, all locking attempts were broken and you stayed happily cloaked. That is the way it supposed to work and we'll be restoring it back the way it was.
I don't really know when that will happen though. It was really news to me that this "wasn't a bug" until this morning so I've been talking to other devs and bughunters about this.
Linkage
Glad that's been laid to rest.
Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula |
Aeaus
Tharsis Security
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Posted - 2006.08.30 12:33:00 -
[46]
Quote:
Basically that this was considered a feature change.
So Tuxford is saying they decided to call it a feature instead, no change from what we were worried about.
My Guides |
inSpirAcy
Caldari
The Solopwnmobiles
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Posted - 2006.08.30 12:42:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Aeaus
So Tuxford is saying they decided to call it a feature instead, no change from what we were worried about.
This is the change that the patch will make, highlighted for clarity:
Originally by: Tuxford
The fix in the patch notes and the one Kieron mentioned fixes the issue of not seeing you uncloak.
Tux is saying he wasn't aware that the issue had been declassed as a bug, and that (as far as he's concerned) it still should be; but there is no ETA on a fix yet.
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Liet Traep
Minmatar
Black Lance
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.08.30 12:52:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Rajon Kelper
sell your covops cloaks now while they're worth anything, geez. 
Done! Bought myself a shiny new command ship.
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Shimpu
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2006.08.30 14:21:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Shimpu on 30/08/2006 14:26:16
Ah, Tux saved us! 
Originally by: Unknown Scout
"ze scoud ffrom xzy, hSs a geighz aggdi...,eeeeeehhhmmmmm, somesing is jambing halt, sree hospitalized incoming." |
Aran Starfire
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Posted - 2006.08.30 15:09:00 -
[50]
I'm not sure what will come of this. All I know is that if it stays the way it is now I will be sorely disappointed for a great number of reasons. Most of what I'd say has already been said in this thread, so I will just say that I hope they get this patched up soon and back to the way it was.
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Bluetit
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Posted - 2006.08.30 16:31:00 -
[51]
If CCP have now made this a feature could we have a dev at least come on and justifiy their reasoning for doing this. Have their been wines about cov ops etc...
at the moment i see no answer from a ccp representitive on why this has been done.
Otherwise we must take this as a bug that has ruined a good aspect of the eve world.
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AKULA UrQuan
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.30 16:35:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Shimpu
Edited by: Shimpu on 30/08/2006 14:26:16
Ah, Tux saved us!
Not exactly. The patch tomorrow will just add in the whole "uncloak" effect when the lock finishes. The original problem that caused all this starting with the dragon update is still there. That problem will be fixed "later". It's kinda hard to figure out wtf the devs are trying to say on the subject tbh.
Gallente control towers anyone? 
heh that last jab was kinda uneeded. but hell. I'm currently speced for INTYs, EW and Covert ops and training for large T2 turrets now. One (covert-ops) is now nerfed to hell, another (EW) is about to be nerfed to hell and a third (T2 ammo) could be getting a slight "pimp slap". Not haveing much luck here picking what cool toys to train for. 
Originally by: Wrangler
Win ME is more a some sort of virus than a OS..
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xlop
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.30 16:38:00 -
[53]
OMFG THE SKY IS FALLING
What do you mean my Invulnerable Cov ops ship got a nefr, omfg so i cant run a 50man gatecamp without thinking any more
CCP why have you forsaken mehhhhhh, WHYYYYYYYYY WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYY WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
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inSpirAcy
Caldari
The Solopwnmobiles
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Posted - 2006.08.30 16:40:00 -
[54]
Originally by: AKULA UrQuan
Not haveing much luck here picking what cool toys to train for.
The natural progression of EVE through generations of continual nerfage will eventually lead us all back into our newbie ships.
Ibis wars ftw!
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Gaius Sejanus
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2006.08.30 16:41:00 -
[55]
Here is what Tux said:
The fix in the patch notes and the one Kieron mentioned fixes the issue of not seeing you uncloak. However cloaks didn't use to work this way, if nobody had you locked when you cloaked, all locking attempts were broken and you stayed happily cloaked. That is the way it supposed to work and we'll be restoring it back the way it was.
In case you missed it, Tux said this:
The fix in the patch notes and the one Kieron mentioned fixes the issue of not seeing you uncloak. However cloaks didn't use to work this way, if nobody had you locked when you cloaked, all locking attempts were broken and you stayed happily cloaked. That is the way it supposed to work and we'll be restoring it back the way it was.
This is the update from Tuxford, with the important part in bold:
The fix in the patch notes and the one Kieron mentioned fixes the issue of not seeing you uncloak. However cloaks didn't use to work this way, if nobody had you locked when you cloaked, all locking attempts were broken and you stayed happily cloaked. That is the way it supposed to work and we'll be restoring it back the way it was.
Did anyone miss it this time, or should it be reposted?
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Xlera
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Posted - 2006.08.30 16:44:00 -
[56]
I hope they fix it tomorrow...
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AKULA UrQuan
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.30 17:19:00 -
[57]
Originally by: TomB
The issue with targeting players that cloak has been found, we are getting it fixed for tomorrow downtime, hopefully, if nothing stops us from updating it.
My deepest apoligies for letting this bug get into the Dragon patch.
That exact post is here.
So sayth the man with his own personaly engraved nerf bat. Short and to the point too.
Originally by: Wrangler
Win ME is more a some sort of virus than a OS..
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Marcus Aurelius
Colossus Security Services
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Posted - 2006.08.30 17:21:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Marcus Aurelius on 30/08/2006 17:22:43
I liked bugged recons alot better then bugged covops tbh.
After all, which of the two has the more important function in pvp ?
I hope they ix it before I get back online in a month or so.
Rod Blaine is on holiday, I'm replacing for the moment |
xenodia
Gallente
Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2006.08.30 17:29:00 -
[59]
Originally by: InnerDrive
Edited by: InnerDrive on 30/08/2006 04:31:14
Edited by: InnerDrive on 29/08/2006 23:15:11
Edited by: InnerDrive on 29/08/2006 23:11:31
So there is this issue with cloaks and cynos being the same programming in the game right?
CCP tryd to make people that make cynos lockable right?
They did that but also made people that cloak lockable as long ya showing on overview right?
And after 3000 people lost their covert ops coz someone bashed ctrl + click on overview when they jumped and had em petition.
They put this BUG up on the known issues page as a MAJOR ISSUE together with blueprints showing being original.
And they than tryd to fix this BUG in game programming but coudent do it and than removed the BUG from known issues and made it so that its a new feature in the patch notes:
http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?patchlogid=93&sid=608304548
If a ship that is being targeted, and cloaks, the lock will now guarantee the uncloak effect occurs
Edit: The reason for making this BUG, a feature is because they coudent seperate cynofield generator programming from cloaking device programming, the bugged state recon ships are in now are proof of that, when u fit a cyno generator on a recon with a cloak u get the message that u allready have a cloak fitted and it simply wont work, CCP borrowed the programming behind cloaks to make cynos and now find it to hard to seperate em...
CCP changed cynos to become lockable and all of a sudden cloaks become lockable, start to hear bells ringin yet?
edit2: Looks like someone is gonna have to change a description..
Name: Helios
Hull: Maulus Class
Role: Covert Ops Frigate
Designed for commando and espionage operation, its main
strength is the ability to travel unseen through enemy territory
and to avoid unfavorable encounters.
U stand more chance now with a noob corp alt in a shuttle coz they warp faster..
Its been confirmed by Tuxford that the current functioning of cloaking is bugged, and they will be fixing it back to the way it was pre-dragon.
Please visit our website here |
inSpirAcy
Caldari
The Solopwnmobiles
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Posted - 2006.08.30 17:29:00 -
[60]
Originally by: AKULA UrQuan
Originally by: TomB
The issue with targeting players that cloak has been found, we are getting it fixed for tomorrow downtime, hopefully, if nothing stops us from updating it.
My deepest apoligies for letting this bug get into the Dragon patch.
That exact post is here.
So sayth the man with his own personaly engraved nerf bat. Short and to the point too.
Amazing how quickly bugs get fixed when people get vocal about it. 
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