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InnerDrive
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Posted - 2006.08.29 22:26:00 -
[1]
So there is this issue with cloaks and cynos being the same programming in the game right?
CCP tryd to make people that make cynos lockable right?
They did that but also made people that cloak lockable as long ya showing on overview right?
And after 3000 people lost their covert ops coz someone bashed ctrl + click on overview when they jumped and had em petition.
They put this BUG up on the known issues page as a MAJOR ISSUE together with blueprints showing being original.
And they than tryd to fix this BUG in game programming but coudent do it and than removed the BUG from known issues and made it so that its a new feature in the patch notes:
http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?patchlogid=93&sid=608304548
If a ship that is being targeted, and cloaks, the lock will now guarantee the uncloak effect occurs
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Nybbas
A Place for Valen
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Posted - 2006.08.29 22:28:00 -
[2]
yeah, that is ridiculous.... i like to at least have the feeling i am safe when i fly around in a 9 mil isk frig with a freaking 60 mil isk cloaking mod fitted : /
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Aeaus
Tharsis Security
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Posted - 2006.08.29 22:30:00 -
[3]
We can't figure out where we ****** up, let's just call it a feature and be done with it.
My Guides |
Tiuwaz
Minmatar
Omacron Militia
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.08.29 22:32:00 -
[4]
ahahah 
 Originally by: Oveur
This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
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Samirol
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2006.08.29 22:32:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Aeaus
We can't figure out where we ****** up, let's just call it a feature and be done with it.
Its THIS big! |
inSpirAcy
Caldari
The Solopwnmobiles
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Posted - 2006.08.29 22:33:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Tiuwaz
ahahah
Your sig is amusingly appropriate. 
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Sev Renard
Gallente
Storm Armada
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Posted - 2006.08.29 22:36:00 -
[7]
Coming from a programming background... give these guys a break for once. I'm sorry, but if they decide they favour a certain mechanic that might have originated as a bug, that's their choice, not ours. Also, this probably had to do more with the abuse of non-covert cloaks on large ships using them to escape lock. It's now up to covert pilots to be even more cautious, seeing as that forum petitions and whining don't exactly power the magical wand of fixing that many people believe the programmers/devs have, but choose not to use.
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If this sig isn't transparent in places... you need a better browser |
Azurae
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Posted - 2006.08.29 22:41:00 -
[8]
It's not a Bug it's a feature.
Now i know where this sentence comes from. :o
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Aeaus
Tharsis Security
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Posted - 2006.08.29 22:43:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Sev Renard
Coming from a programming background... give these guys a break for once. I'm sorry, but if they decide they favour a certain mechanic that might have originated as a bug, that's their choice, not ours. Also, this probably had to do more with the abuse of non-covert cloaks on large ships using them to escape lock. It's now up to covert pilots to be even more cautious, seeing as that forum petitions and whining don't exactly power the magical wand of fixing that many people believe the programmers/devs have, but choose not to use.
I might not have the background you have, but in my experiences it isn't acceptable to leave something you can't fix and turn it into a feature. The basic premise here is that without the bug originating this would never become a "feature."
What abuse of non-covert cloaks? First time I've ever heard of somebody complaining over a very long retargetting period and a gimped sensor resolution to simply escape getting locked, how long does it take to lock a large ship anyways, several seconds?
My Guides |
Sev Renard
Gallente
Storm Armada
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Posted - 2006.08.29 22:53:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Aeaus
Originally by: Sev Renard
<stuff I wrote>
I might not have the background you have, but in my experiences it isn't acceptable to leave something you can't fix and turn it into a feature. The basic premise here is that without the bug originating this would never become a "feature."
What abuse of non-covert cloaks? First time I've ever heard of somebody complaining over a very long retargetting period and a gimped sensor resolution to simply escape getting locked, how long does it take to lock a large ship anyways, several seconds?
I'll admit that the non-cov cloak bit was purely speculation, but I'm trying to think of a reason they wouldn't base the cloaking off of an older version of the cloak code if they honestly wanted to fix it. Perhaps there's going to be an obscure rp dev post regarding a "gal-net sensor upgrade patch" to all of our ships.
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If this sig isn't transparent in places... you need a better browser |
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2006.08.29 23:02:00 -
[11]
So it is now an officially introduced feature?
Well at least the price of cloaks will come down if thats the case. :(
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Centurin
Sturmgrenadier Inc
R i s e
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Posted - 2006.08.29 23:24:00 -
[12]
What a pile of ****. Its a shame that Cov ops just became useless.
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"Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" - Optimus Prime |
Major Raditz
133rd Ghost Wing
R i s e
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Posted - 2006.08.29 23:38:00 -
[13]
First T2 ship i decided to skill towards is now useless.
High five CCP!
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Xiao Up
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Posted - 2006.08.30 00:04:00 -
[14]
So, now, all you have to have is a stealth bomber or a hac sitting right next to a gate, with 3 T2 sensor boosters, and you control-click the covert when it jumps through and shows up in your overview... and bam, instapop?
Yeah, i'm with the last poster - first T2 ship I skilled for, and I bought it 2 days before the patch.... and now it's worthless.
Thanks. |
Thunderbird Anthares
The New Empire
R i s e
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Posted - 2006.08.30 00:11:00 -
[15]
its just an outrage to turn own mistakes into "features"
i just bought a covops when this was still listed as major bug,and got destroyed in it because of it,so 70mil down the drain+some stuff i carried for my corpmates
few days later its a "feature" and i can start to wonder if i will even get reimbursed
CCP made a huge mistake by using same code for cynos and cloaks,so first the recons were getting the bug-nerf,now its a kill for the covert-ops.
If you want to nerf cloaks like this,nerf the proto and improved one as you please,but killing a covops like this,and right when i bought my first one,and lost it because of major bug called a feature now,im pretty p*ssed as you can imagine.
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When you get to the end of your journey,everything that really matters is the journey itself. |
Thunderbird Anthares
The New Empire
R i s e
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Posted - 2006.08.30 00:14:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Xiao Up
So, now, all you have to have is a stealth bomber or a hac sitting right next to a gate, with 3 T2 sensor boosters, and you control-click the covert when it jumps through and shows up in your overview... and bam, instapop?
Yeah, i'm with the last poster - first T2 ship I skilled for, and I bought it 2 days before the patch.... and now it's worthless.
Thanks.
the best part is you dont even need a fast locker
when this happened to me,the ceptor targetting me didnt have "exceptionally" fast lock
my cloak blinked in green,so i said fine,im outta here,and right when i clicked the warp,cloak grayed out (with inty at over 6km),i got scrambled,and pwned like the worst noob
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When you get to the end of your journey,everything that really matters is the journey itself. |
Nathanial Victor
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Posted - 2006.08.30 00:19:00 -
[17]
Guess they got tired of us asking them to fix current content before adding new content....
would file this one under "developmental process workaround". No need to fix it if they document that they wanted it this way.
This is def a big disappointment. I hear they said they just dont have the time/resources to reprogram this portion of the code, but they have plenty of time/resources for the asian server and new CCG 
plz dont cast us aside ccp. we are the ppl that brought you where you are today, this is Grade A, #1, ub3rGHEY
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Duban Banned
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Posted - 2006.08.30 00:27:00 -
[18]
compared to most online games CCP has suprized me time and time again with good content, and they've jsut done a very good job. Though i must say i'm very disapointed at this . . . stupidity.
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DRMALIKIA
Trade and Research Technologies
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Posted - 2006.08.30 00:28:00 -
[19]
Edited by: DRMALIKIA on 30/08/2006 00:31:17
I am going to break this down into parts as I see it, educate me if I am incorrect on anything:
Comment made by CCP "If a ship that is being targeted, and cloaks, the lock will now guarantee the uncloak effect occurs"
#1 MY SHIP<<------ATTEMPTING TO TARGET<<------ENEMY
#2 (MY SHIP CLOAKS)<<--------STILL ATTEMPTING TARGET<<------ENEMY
#3 (MY SHIP CLOAKED)<<--------LOCKED<<--------ENEMY can see me, I die.
I am not going to pretend to be an expert Covert Ops Pilot but, they are talking about the "EFFECT" of not being cloaked. Two things bother me about this situation.
1) If you are being targeted I thought you couldn't cloak, lock or not, if they were attempting, you couldn't use your cloak? (TRUE or FALSE)
2) "EFFECT" to me can be the "VISUAL EFFECT" and "THE PHYSICAL EFFECT" of being cloaked/not cloaked. Which of the two is CCP refering to?
3) If my first question is TRUE, then there sounds as if there was a "VISUAL EFFECT" bug. When activating the cloaking device it only worked visually (your ship can't be seen) but in reality your ship is locked and you are "word meaing Fornication Under Consent of the King"ED.
4) If question 1 is FALSE, and you can cloak whether someone is attempting a lock or you are locked, and the "EFFECT" is physical, then CCP has nerfed the abilities of a cloaking ship.
I have always hated how they never follow traditional Scifi shows in regards to cloaks. Damn, the Romulans (STAR TREK) have been using cloaking devices for centuries. "Cloak & Go" has been a popular Romulan slogan throughout the Empire. You run into trouble, cloak and get the hell out of dodge!!!!!
How much more is CCP going to break the poor Covert Pilot's b@!!s? I mean the poor guys barely get laid as it is being cloaked all the time. Sleeping every night with their Covert Ops Cloaking Device T2 in fear of getting killed and having to buy another 60 Million isk module.
Someone had mentioned a petition thread? If you find it please post it in this thread as well, spread the word!!!!! Cloaking is already nerfed, let's not turn it into an official "NERF" product.
|)O(
The doctor is at your service. |
Vicious Phoenix
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Posted - 2006.08.30 00:49:00 -
[20]
CCP messed something up while trying to fix something that useses similar code: That is perfectly understandable, and while I don't like it I can deal with it. They admitted their mistake and put it on the known bugs page and I'm placated because I assume it will be fixed in the next patch.
A few days later CCP apparently realizes that it may be hard to fix and move it from "Known Issues" to "Features (Patch Notes)". This *really* ticks me off. I don't have a problem with a bug, they happen, I know this because I happen to be a coder myself. But what really angers me is when CCP messes something up and then claims it was intended.
CCP THIS IS BS ADMIT YOU SCREWED UP AND FIX IT NEXT PATCH.
CFW (Certified Forum Warrior)
I kill people ingame too. |
Aeaus
Tharsis Security
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Posted - 2006.08.30 00:53:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Aeaus on 30/08/2006 00:53:57
Before if you're cloaked the only way you were forced to be uncloaked is if you turned it off or got within any object under 2,000 meters.
Before if you were locked you could't cloak. Good covert ops pilots couldn't possibly be locked during the time they jumped to when they hit the cloak (usually this gets worked out to under a second). Most interceptors wouldn't be kitted to insta-locking so catching a good covert ops pilot that's only doing recon with anything less then a warp bubble would be nigh impossible.
Now if you start locking a covert ops ship and it cloaks, when your locking time ends the covert ops ship uncloaks. At least how I understand it from the patch notes. Well let's look at the problem here, you aren't going to be able to react fast enough to not show up as a blip on the overview, and once you do anybody can lock you and you will uncloak when the cycle is finished. This means that a slow and vulnerable covert ops ship worth about 100M and completely uninsurable can be caught by almost any ship at a gate that (to make it easier, filter for CO only) can ctrl-click spam.
Edit : And the covert ops pilot has NO clue that this is occuring since they appear cloaked to themselves and the module is still blinking green.
My Guides |
Mr Peanut
The New Empire
R i s e
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Posted - 2006.08.30 01:13:00 -
[22]
They're not "made crap". I can't really think of a big way that this would affect game mechanics. If someone can, please enlighten me. After all, you can't cloak while locked anyway, so I think that the ones that really took a blow were the Pilgrims who warp into a belt with a few BS ratting or something and try to "WTF CLOAK", whereupon they are oblitterated. This doesn't really affect bombers too much either, assuming that you're flying a long-range fitted bomber and being smart by not warping into things with hostiles in local at 15k (the two go together IMO unless you're fighting frigs), because almost nothing can lock you at 100k+ with 1-2 best named or T2 sensor damps on them. That, and the fact that it doesn't really affect travel, because they would have to be insta-lock ships with awesome reflexes to lock you before you could cloak.
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Kai Jyokoroi
133rd Ghost Wing
R i s e
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Posted - 2006.08.30 01:14:00 -
[23]
Normally I don't whine, but so, so /SIGNED.
The BEST thing about covert ops is that they were hard to catch. Now any noob in a rifter with a sebo II and a spammy left click can turn your 65m perfect scout into dust with absolutely no effort required to probe you out or bump you.
It's called the "Covert Ops Cloak" for a reason, not the "55 million isk module that means if they manage to even start locking you you're screwed Cloak".
It's not a feature, it's a BUG. Get it FIXED. It's just rendered my brand new 250 mil Arazu set-up that I was REALLY looking forward to playing with totally worthless because it's going to get killed at the next gatecamp I try to take it past. Thanks a whole friggin' bunch, CCP.
_____________
The day I receive my first moderator forum-sig hijack is the day I realise I have won Eve.
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lasergazer
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Posted - 2006.08.30 01:15:00 -
[24]
yep this is totally stupid guess ill toss pilgrim on the scrap heap now
bloody annoying ccp
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Aeaus
Tharsis Security
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Posted - 2006.08.30 01:18:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Mr Peanut
They're not "made crap". I can't really think of a big way that this would affect game mechanics. If someone can, please enlighten me. After all, you can't cloak while locked anyway, so I think that the ones that really took a blow were the Pilgrims who warp into a belt with a few BS ratting or something and try to "WTF CLOAK", whereupon they are oblitterated. This doesn't really affect bombers too much either, assuming that you're flying a long-range fitted bomber and being smart by not warping into things with hostiles in local at 15k (the two go together IMO unless you're fighting frigs), because almost nothing can lock you at 100k+ with 1-2 best named or T2 sensor damps on them. That, and the fact that it doesn't really affect travel, because they would have to be insta-lock ships with awesome reflexes to lock you before you could cloak.
Uhm, no...
- Covert OPs Hunting Gatecamp -
All you need is a ship smaller then a cruiser. And you need one overview setting with nothing but covert ops. As soon as you expect a covert ops to pass by you start spamming the overview (ctrl + click) where the covert ops will show up (this is very many times under a second for most pilots). There, absolutely no effort except for one overview setting and you can catch almost any covert ops pilot. Covert OPs move *SLOWLY* so you will definately lock during that time period, and then all it takes is a few disruptors and your target is caught =/
Hell, I'm sure a battleship with a few sensor modules could pull this off.
My Guides |
Kai Jyokoroi
133rd Ghost Wing
R i s e
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Posted - 2006.08.30 01:31:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Kai Jyokoroi on 30/08/2006 01:32:46
Originally by: Aeaus
Originally by: Mr Peanut
They're not "made crap". I can't really think of a big way that this would affect game mechanics. If someone can, please enlighten me. After all, you can't cloak while locked anyway, so I think that the ones that really took a blow were the Pilgrims who warp into a belt with a few BS ratting or something and try to "WTF CLOAK", whereupon they are oblitterated. This doesn't really affect bombers too much either, assuming that you're flying a long-range fitted bomber and being smart by not warping into things with hostiles in local at 15k (the two go together IMO unless you're fighting frigs), because almost nothing can lock you at 100k+ with 1-2 best named or T2 sensor damps on them. That, and the fact that it doesn't really affect travel, because they would have to be insta-lock ships with awesome reflexes to lock you before you could cloak.
I know if they don't fix this I'm going to start making sure there's at least one person doing that in the gangs I'm in. Covert Ops are now so much easier to catch than they used to be.
Uhm, no...
- Covert OPs Hunting Gatecamp -
All you need is a ship smaller then a cruiser. And you need one overview setting with nothing but covert ops. As soon as you expect a covert ops to pass by you start spamming the overview (ctrl + click) where the covert ops will show up (this is very many times under a second for most pilots). There, absolutely no effort except for one overview setting and you can catch almost any covert ops pilot. Covert OPs move *SLOWLY* so you will definately lock during that time period, and then all it takes is a few disruptors and your target is caught =/
Hell, I'm sure a battleship with a few sensor modules could pull this off.
I'm damn sure people are gonna start using this tactic. I know I will. When word gets out of how to do this, covops are going to be worse than useless (they're going to be expensive as well as a good way of getting you killed...)
_____________
The day I receive my first moderator forum-sig hijack is the day I realise I have won Eve.
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Vicious Phoenix
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Posted - 2006.08.30 01:33:00 -
[27]
Before this bug most inties couldn't target a cov ops before it cloaked. Now, a carrier with a 35second lock time could un-cloak a cov ops. How is that not much of a difference?
CFW (Certified Forum Warrior)
I kill people ingame too. |
MidnightMeadows
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Posted - 2006.08.30 02:55:00 -
[28]
/signed
This is ridiculous, let's get this fixed ASAP.
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Mr Peanut
The New Empire
R i s e
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Posted - 2006.08.30 03:12:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Aeaus
Originally by: Mr Peanut
They're not "made crap". I can't really think of a big way that this would affect game mechanics. If someone can, please enlighten me. After all, you can't cloak while locked anyway, so I think that the ones that really took a blow were the Pilgrims who warp into a belt with a few BS ratting or something and try to "WTF CLOAK", whereupon they are oblitterated. This doesn't really affect bombers too much either, assuming that you're flying a long-range fitted bomber and being smart by not warping into things with hostiles in local at 15k (the two go together IMO unless you're fighting frigs), because almost nothing can lock you at 100k+ with 1-2 best named or T2 sensor damps on them. That, and the fact that it doesn't really affect travel, because they would have to be insta-lock ships with awesome reflexes to lock you before you could cloak.
Uhm, no...
- Covert OPs Hunting Gatecamp -
All you need is a ship smaller then a cruiser. And you need one overview setting with nothing but covert ops. As soon as you expect a covert ops to pass by you start spamming the overview (ctrl + click) where the covert ops will show up (this is very many times under a second for most pilots). There, absolutely no effort except for one overview setting and you can catch almost any covert ops pilot. Covert OPs move *SLOWLY* so you will definately lock during that time period, and then all it takes is a few disruptors and your target is caught =/
Hell, I'm sure a battleship with a few sensor modules could pull this off.
 OK, so I was wrong about the travel part.
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Rajon Kelper
Omacron Militia
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.08.30 03:17:00 -
[30]
sell your covops cloaks now while they're worth anything, geez.
This takes away half the PURPOSE of covops ships. They cant be used as scouts anymore, because now they cant scout out gates, due to them having almost a 100% chance of getting popped even with cloak fitted (if a semi-fast locker is present) when jumping through a gate.
wtf ccp, you've just screwed over everyone who's trained for covops. 
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"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can. Strike him as hard as you can, and keep moving." |
xeom
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.08.30 03:27:00 -
[31]
Yea cloaks are useless now.Everyone plz escrow your cloaks to me at rock bottum price's.
CCP where are our t2 shield power relays? |
Eudoxus
Ars Caelestis
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Posted - 2006.08.30 05:44:00 -
[32]
I was initially thinking this was bad but not that bad. I mean, I can stick in nanos for a quicker align post getting cloaked on arrival in a new system and warping away. At worst I will use more nanos and probably more of the modules every loves to complain about - wcs.
Catch is, I think my fastest locking ship is 2ish seconds (sensor boostersx2) on my bomber locking enemy frigs (or faster on cruisers which really hurts force recon) and I assume other people have even faster lockers. Even with right clicking in space to get the warp going to your safespot (or next gate or whereever you are going) from the initial 'freebie' cloak on arrival in the system, I don't think the covops let alone the force recon aligns anywhere near that fast (short of a lucky alignment on arrival in system). This means covops/force recon seem quite likely to be 'sucker' ships for the pilots - ie I would have to be a sucker to want to fly one. As mentioned, even a slow locker is likely to have a very good shot at decloaking you - and then you are scrammed and dead (hmmm, forget nanos, all wcs in lows!). I have not run into a problem...yet...but probably just a matter of time, especially now that word of this 'feature' gets around.
If this feature is to stay, where is the buff then? Since an enemy can be targetting a ship that has already disappeared and then actually lock this disappeared ship (without it even knowing it is being targetted!), that seems to me to be modules working in hostile manner on invisible ships. So, from that would follow that cloaked ships should be able to use modules on visible ships with ease (that would have to be a much easier thing to do than the other way around right?). So how about covops can be cloaked, sit on a gate, web, warp scramble and sensor damp enemies without their knowledge while their enemies are camping the gate (I mean, you can target and then lock an invisbible ship without its knowledge so quid quo pro right?).
Oh, so that would be too uber? Well then please fix the neutering that this 'feature' would seem to be to this class of ship.
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Qberticus
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Posted - 2006.08.30 05:48:00 -
[33]
I sorta like having all thouse skill points wasted.
Makes me feel special.
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Kurtz
Minmatar
Eldorado Exploration Expedition
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Posted - 2006.08.30 06:02:00 -
[34]
A fiasco! Spectacu-Nerf!
Perhaps one of the devs can explain to us all now. How do you use and survive in a covert ops ship?
Tom B? I thought you liked the Covert ops?
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Rex Deus
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.30 06:12:00 -
[35]
Well I do try to be fair and give a balanced view of things. This is the way it is from my specific perspective.
1. I skilled for a long time towards using a pilgrim for solo piracy as it looked great.
2. There was a bug which seemingly couldn't be fixed quickly or easily so it became a 'feature'.
3. This turned my time skilling and my isk spent on the Pilgrim into a waste - not a total one but it is not that which i had planned for and it is now a considerably weakened setup.
Does this annoy me? Yes. A few indisputable facts for consideration.
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Death Merchant
InterGalactic Corp.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.08.30 06:24:00 -
[36]
Ok... um..trying to think of something that wont get me banned...
This is probably the biggest laziest piece of bull caca that Ive ever seen the devs on this game do.
Either fix it or just remove cloaks all together and give the ships diffrent bonuses.
"What happens in Deklien stays in Deklien". |
Doshu
Sturmgrenadier Inc
R i s e
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Posted - 2006.08.30 06:42:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Doshu on 30/08/2006 06:44:31
Edited by: Doshu on 30/08/2006 06:42:37
In SG we normally try not to post in flaming threads and participate in trash talk, but I have to agree. This new feature about cloaking does not make any sense, and renders covert op bombers completely useless. They were weak enough not being able to warp while cloaked, now they are completely useless.
About the conspiracy, I know that it was on the bug list, however unless you have some sort of proof about them turning this into a feature just because they cant fix it, I will have to give them the benefit of the doubt only if they can give a logical argument/reasoning on why they added this feature.
PS Opinions are for a$$holes, and the opinions posted above are in no way reflect the SG's standing on the subject.. (did I just call myself an a$$hole?)
SturmGrenadier
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Heikki
Gallente
Wreckless Abandon
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Posted - 2006.08.30 06:48:00 -
[38]
So far the posts seem to be have been of tune 'sky is falling, run!', without anyone actually going out to see if it really is coming down.
So, can you now semi-reliable start targetting a cov op that goes through jump->uncloak->cloak pattern (can't quite test it myself for quite a few hours)?
If true, sounds bad for a cov pilot, although nothing that drastic. Life goes on, just a bit harder to use covvies to get past tough camps. Even less use for recon ships as scout.
If it is a bug, it might get fixed one day. Otherwise just consider it as one of those balance modifications, and get used to it.
Now only if I was around Eve and could set buy orders for cloaks, I might also go on yelling 'hey, the sky really is coming down'.
-Lasse
who does have a damn lot of SPs focused on cov cloak usage
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Hayabusa Fury
Caldari
Wu-Tang Financial
Mordus Angels
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Posted - 2006.08.30 07:11:00 -
[39]
I am reminded of Star Wars Galaxies and the Creature Handler profession just before the NGE.
This is a Sony Online type of move, CCP. Good Job!!!
....*I need to go throw up now*
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"I can not recall the number of times my superior intellect has got me knee deep in ****!" --Harely Hayes |
Infrared Raven
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2006.08.30 07:50:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Heikki
So far the posts seem to be have been of tune 'sky is falling, run!', without anyone actually going out to see if it really is coming down.
So, can you now semi-reliable start targetting a cov op that goes through jump->uncloak->cloak pattern (can't quite test it myself for quite a few hours)?
If true, sounds bad for a cov pilot, although nothing that drastic. Life goes on, just a bit harder to use covvies to get past tough camps. Even less use for recon ships as scout.
Pre-Patch, when the covert/recon pilot aligns and hits his cloaking device after jumpin, all attempts to lock it were interrupted, even if you could see him for a short time until he disappeared.
Post-Patch, when the covert/recon pilot aligns and hits his cloaking device after jumpin, all attempts to lock it are NOT interrupted, until he finishes his cloaking and disappears. So your friendly gatecamper has a window of 2-3 seconds (+/- lag) to lock you, which is enuff for a interceptor to lock a reconcruiser or a interceptor with sensorboosters to lock a covert-ops.
Plus, there is a display bug (but thats only a display bug), where your cloaking device flashes green, but the interceptor-guy already has a nice yellow bracket around him.
Originally by: Heikki
If it is a bug, it might get fixed one day. Otherwise just consider it as one of those balance modifications, and get used to it.
Unfortunately, it's not like this makes it harder for ships with a covert-ops cloaking to escape, this change makes it impossible to escape (specially for reconcruisers) even from the smallest gatecamps.
Before the patch, there was a chance that you could escape camps with interdictors / mobile warp disruptors, by cloaking and flying out of range -> warp. Forget that now...
FUBAR, FUBAR, FUBAR...
For Caracal, Thorax, Blackbird, Vexor, Osprey, Maller, Rupture and more Cruiser BPOs - Contact me. |
Akhual
1st Royal Marines
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Posted - 2006.08.30 08:01:00 -
[41]
What really hurts is the fact that I just finished training recon to lvl 5 - thats a rank 6 skill...
Feels like a major kick in the gonads!
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.08.30 09:05:00 -
[42]
Covops cloaked ships are still the only reliable way to get a spot on an enemy fleet to warp in at or such. They'll still be used, they're just poor on the way through gates now.
You know what's funny? Despite the fact that Covops cloaks will now be much much worse, their price is going to go up, because so many more are going to be destroyed and demand will be driven up.
The days of a cheap covops alt are gone. Get ready for some hardcore Ark mining to pay for your alt's ships :P
Scrapheap Challenge!
Liverpool Eve CCG Tournament, 02/09/06!
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Damien Smith
Turbulent
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Posted - 2006.08.30 09:50:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Damien Smith on 30/08/2006 09:51:18
We've encountered this bug while on a gatecamp (yeah, sad I know but piwats have to eat too) not too long ago. We spotted something on the overview, ctrl-clicked it. As soon as our lock completed (from a battleship I might add) the ship model appeared, we heard the uncloak sound and we realised it was a recon ship.
We found out about the cloak bug shortly after and sent the guy an eve mail with the details and advised him to petition it, as losing a ship to a bug that shouldn't have happened is just lame.
For those people who aren't really understanding this bug, and think that you shouldn't be able to cloak at all while the lock is counting down, check this little situation out:
You're flying a stealth bomber, the default fit of which is a couple of sensor damps, among other things. The idea is that you uncloak and damp the target, and their lock takes so long that you're able to fire at them and recloak before their lock completes, cancelling their lock. You then reposition your ship and repeat, uncloaking, damping them, firing and cloaking before they obtain a lock.
All that happens now is you uncloak, damp, fire, and even after you recloak their lock still counts down. As soon as they obtain their lock they blow your little friggy out of the sky.
The same goes for the Arazu too, the Pilgrim, Rook, Helios, Manticore, Nemesis, basically any ship that uses a cloak is now screwed.
My covert ops will be staying docked until this is fixed.
-----------
Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie)
Mission running carebears drop good loot. Probe one out today! |
Verus Potestas
Caldari
Fiat Mort
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Posted - 2006.08.30 10:17:00 -
[44]
Tux posted, change not happening.
Cloak back to the old ways.
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ELECTR0FREAK
Eye of God
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.08.30 10:18:00 -
[45]
To save Tuxford some trouble...
Originally by: Tuxford
About the cloaking issue. There has been a little in house misunderstanding. The problem is that the way cloaking works now is that if you are being targetted but aren't locked you can cloak but the lock attempt isn't broken so when you're locked you get uncloaked but there is a bug where the uncloaking visual effect isn't performed so you happily think you're still cloaked.
The fix in the patch notes and the one Kieron mentioned fixes the issue of not seeing you uncloak. However cloaks didn't use to work this way, if nobody had you locked when you cloaked, all locking attempts were broken and you stayed happily cloaked. That is the way it supposed to work and we'll be restoring it back the way it was.
I don't really know when that will happen though. It was really news to me that this "wasn't a bug" until this morning so I've been talking to other devs and bughunters about this.
Linkage
Glad that's been laid to rest.
Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula |
Aeaus
Tharsis Security
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Posted - 2006.08.30 12:33:00 -
[46]
Quote:
Basically that this was considered a feature change.
So Tuxford is saying they decided to call it a feature instead, no change from what we were worried about.
My Guides |
inSpirAcy
Caldari
The Solopwnmobiles
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Posted - 2006.08.30 12:42:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Aeaus
So Tuxford is saying they decided to call it a feature instead, no change from what we were worried about.
This is the change that the patch will make, highlighted for clarity:
Originally by: Tuxford
The fix in the patch notes and the one Kieron mentioned fixes the issue of not seeing you uncloak.
Tux is saying he wasn't aware that the issue had been declassed as a bug, and that (as far as he's concerned) it still should be; but there is no ETA on a fix yet.
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Liet Traep
Minmatar
Black Lance
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.08.30 12:52:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Rajon Kelper
sell your covops cloaks now while they're worth anything, geez.
Done! Bought myself a shiny new command ship.
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Shimpu
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2006.08.30 14:21:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Shimpu on 30/08/2006 14:26:16
Ah, Tux saved us! 
Originally by: Unknown Scout
"ze scoud ffrom xzy, hSs a geighz aggdi...,eeeeeehhhmmmmm, somesing is jambing halt, sree hospitalized incoming." |
Aran Starfire
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Posted - 2006.08.30 15:09:00 -
[50]
I'm not sure what will come of this. All I know is that if it stays the way it is now I will be sorely disappointed for a great number of reasons. Most of what I'd say has already been said in this thread, so I will just say that I hope they get this patched up soon and back to the way it was.
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Bluetit
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Posted - 2006.08.30 16:31:00 -
[51]
If CCP have now made this a feature could we have a dev at least come on and justifiy their reasoning for doing this. Have their been wines about cov ops etc...
at the moment i see no answer from a ccp representitive on why this has been done.
Otherwise we must take this as a bug that has ruined a good aspect of the eve world.
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AKULA UrQuan
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.30 16:35:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Shimpu
Edited by: Shimpu on 30/08/2006 14:26:16
Ah, Tux saved us!
Not exactly. The patch tomorrow will just add in the whole "uncloak" effect when the lock finishes. The original problem that caused all this starting with the dragon update is still there. That problem will be fixed "later". It's kinda hard to figure out wtf the devs are trying to say on the subject tbh.
Gallente control towers anyone? 
heh that last jab was kinda uneeded. but hell. I'm currently speced for INTYs, EW and Covert ops and training for large T2 turrets now. One (covert-ops) is now nerfed to hell, another (EW) is about to be nerfed to hell and a third (T2 ammo) could be getting a slight "pimp slap". Not haveing much luck here picking what cool toys to train for.
Originally by: Wrangler
Win ME is more a some sort of virus than a OS..
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xlop
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.30 16:38:00 -
[53]
OMFG THE SKY IS FALLING
What do you mean my Invulnerable Cov ops ship got a nefr, omfg so i cant run a 50man gatecamp without thinking any more
CCP why have you forsaken mehhhhhh, WHYYYYYYYYY WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYY WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
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inSpirAcy
Caldari
The Solopwnmobiles
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Posted - 2006.08.30 16:40:00 -
[54]
Originally by: AKULA UrQuan
Not haveing much luck here picking what cool toys to train for.
The natural progression of EVE through generations of continual nerfage will eventually lead us all back into our newbie ships.
Ibis wars ftw!
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Gaius Sejanus
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2006.08.30 16:41:00 -
[55]
Here is what Tux said:
The fix in the patch notes and the one Kieron mentioned fixes the issue of not seeing you uncloak. However cloaks didn't use to work this way, if nobody had you locked when you cloaked, all locking attempts were broken and you stayed happily cloaked. That is the way it supposed to work and we'll be restoring it back the way it was.
In case you missed it, Tux said this:
The fix in the patch notes and the one Kieron mentioned fixes the issue of not seeing you uncloak. However cloaks didn't use to work this way, if nobody had you locked when you cloaked, all locking attempts were broken and you stayed happily cloaked. That is the way it supposed to work and we'll be restoring it back the way it was.
This is the update from Tuxford, with the important part in bold:
The fix in the patch notes and the one Kieron mentioned fixes the issue of not seeing you uncloak. However cloaks didn't use to work this way, if nobody had you locked when you cloaked, all locking attempts were broken and you stayed happily cloaked. That is the way it supposed to work and we'll be restoring it back the way it was.
Did anyone miss it this time, or should it be reposted?
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Xlera
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Posted - 2006.08.30 16:44:00 -
[56]
I hope they fix it tomorrow...
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AKULA UrQuan
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.30 17:19:00 -
[57]
Originally by: TomB
The issue with targeting players that cloak has been found, we are getting it fixed for tomorrow downtime, hopefully, if nothing stops us from updating it.
My deepest apoligies for letting this bug get into the Dragon patch.
That exact post is here.
So sayth the man with his own personaly engraved nerf bat. Short and to the point too.
Originally by: Wrangler
Win ME is more a some sort of virus than a OS..
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Marcus Aurelius
Colossus Security Services
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Posted - 2006.08.30 17:21:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Marcus Aurelius on 30/08/2006 17:22:43
I liked bugged recons alot better then bugged covops tbh.
After all, which of the two has the more important function in pvp ?
I hope they ix it before I get back online in a month or so.
Rod Blaine is on holiday, I'm replacing for the moment |
xenodia
Gallente
Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2006.08.30 17:29:00 -
[59]
Originally by: InnerDrive
Edited by: InnerDrive on 30/08/2006 04:31:14
Edited by: InnerDrive on 29/08/2006 23:15:11
Edited by: InnerDrive on 29/08/2006 23:11:31
So there is this issue with cloaks and cynos being the same programming in the game right?
CCP tryd to make people that make cynos lockable right?
They did that but also made people that cloak lockable as long ya showing on overview right?
And after 3000 people lost their covert ops coz someone bashed ctrl + click on overview when they jumped and had em petition.
They put this BUG up on the known issues page as a MAJOR ISSUE together with blueprints showing being original.
And they than tryd to fix this BUG in game programming but coudent do it and than removed the BUG from known issues and made it so that its a new feature in the patch notes:
http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?patchlogid=93&sid=608304548
If a ship that is being targeted, and cloaks, the lock will now guarantee the uncloak effect occurs
Edit: The reason for making this BUG, a feature is because they coudent seperate cynofield generator programming from cloaking device programming, the bugged state recon ships are in now are proof of that, when u fit a cyno generator on a recon with a cloak u get the message that u allready have a cloak fitted and it simply wont work, CCP borrowed the programming behind cloaks to make cynos and now find it to hard to seperate em...
CCP changed cynos to become lockable and all of a sudden cloaks become lockable, start to hear bells ringin yet?
edit2: Looks like someone is gonna have to change a description..
Name: Helios
Hull: Maulus Class
Role: Covert Ops Frigate
Designed for commando and espionage operation, its main
strength is the ability to travel unseen through enemy territory
and to avoid unfavorable encounters.
U stand more chance now with a noob corp alt in a shuttle coz they warp faster..
Its been confirmed by Tuxford that the current functioning of cloaking is bugged, and they will be fixing it back to the way it was pre-dragon.
Please visit our website here |
inSpirAcy
Caldari
The Solopwnmobiles
|
Posted - 2006.08.30 17:29:00 -
[60]
Originally by: AKULA UrQuan
Originally by: TomB
The issue with targeting players that cloak has been found, we are getting it fixed for tomorrow downtime, hopefully, if nothing stops us from updating it.
My deepest apoligies for letting this bug get into the Dragon patch.
That exact post is here.
So sayth the man with his own personaly engraved nerf bat. Short and to the point too.
Amazing how quickly bugs get fixed when people get vocal about it.
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AKULA UrQuan
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.30 17:42:00 -
[61]
seems that way. But hey. I'm just happy I didn't spend 90M isk on a "paper weight". Anyway I'm still not sure if force recons will ever be widely used to generate cynos even when it is possible to place a cloak and a cyno generator on the same ship. Who in their right mind would ever take their sexy, and might I add expensive, ship out somewhere and then hang a giant flashing neon sign over it that says, "Hi! I'm over here. Please kill me." currently escapes me.
Originally by: Wrangler
Win ME is more a some sort of virus than a OS..
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Stutka Driver
Queens of the Stone Age
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Posted - 2006.08.30 20:19:00 -
[62]
I just lost another cov-ops ship to this crap. Unbelievable. It seems a complete waste that I have a cov-ops character save putzing around in a single system. At this point I've lost close to 600mil isk. Yes I'm whining.
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Killer lu
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Posted - 2006.08.30 20:27:00 -
[63]
This is simply outrageous. Does CCP realise that very isk spent in the game is equal to time spent in real life+ REALLLLL MONEY! that we pay for the bloody subscription.
You clearly admit this is a BUG, u report it as a BUG! then turn around and decide to call it a feature!!!!! WTF ???
OH! this is a spit in the face! people spent time and money trying to enjoy the covert ops aspect of the game. Plz CCP fix the BUG! u reported! why should the players pay for that mistake?
****ed ****ed ****ed
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Still Hart
Aurora Empire
Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
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Posted - 2006.08.30 21:16:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Killer lu
This is simply outrageous. Does CCP realise that very isk spent in the game is equal to time spent in real life+ REALLLLL MONEY! that we pay for the bloody subscription.
You clearly admit this is a BUG, u report it as a BUG! then turn around and decide to call it a feature!!!!! WTF ???
OH! this is a spit in the face! people spent time and money trying to enjoy the covert ops aspect of the game. Plz CCP fix the BUG! u reported! why should the players pay for that mistake?
****ed ****ed ****ed
Holy crap, take a chill pill then go back and read the whole thread. This is going to be fixed tomorrow.
_____________________
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Shadows Vale
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Posted - 2006.08.30 22:30:00 -
[65]
I was really planning to blast CCP, but a cooler hand is writing this...it would be really nice if CCP would at least RESPOND to this thread. I'm sure they were caught just as unexpectedly by this as the rest of us...I'm sure they've lost ships also.
CCP, tell us what you're doing to fix this. This is a bug, and needs to be fixed. Ignoring it just ****es off players who've been paying YOUR SALARY for a while now.
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HankMurphy
Pelennor Swarm
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.08.30 22:34:00 -
[66]
Ask and you shall recieve
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Mr Peanut
The New Empire
R i s e
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Posted - 2006.08.30 23:07:00 -
[67]
Originally by: HankMurphy
Ask and you shall recieve
Yes, but it's kind of annoying that people had to post this link twice in this thread for people to stop using it to flame CCP.
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HankMurphy
Pelennor Swarm
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.08.30 23:36:00 -
[68]
actually i totally looked past the previous link. 0 pnts awarded for Hank's obervational skills
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Major Raditz
133rd Ghost Wing
R i s e
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Posted - 2006.08.31 00:46:00 -
[69]
I was thinking the dragon code is pretty much just a mirror of the chinese server...surely they would have already fixed this on that server and should never have creeped onto TQ at all?
]
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james washburn
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Posted - 2006.08.31 01:06:00 -
[70]
ok jsut to clear this up for me, a person who is leaveing on a jet plane in... now, they are fixing this? cause ive spent about 2 weeks working on a force recon cruiser raptor pack battle tactic. this "feature" would kinda screw my entire play book over...
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Shadows Vale
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Posted - 2006.08.31 06:08:00 -
[71]
To Hank and Mr P, I'm encouraged by the link, but...as they say..."Talk is cheap". I'll stop when they fix it.
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Maxel Rackrose
VakAtioth
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Posted - 2006.08.31 07:52:00 -
[72]
./o_
Without having read every post, I apoligise if I am repeating what others have said. I just have to add my name to the list of pilots who are feeling 'shocked & awed' at the total nerf of the Cov-Ops role in Eve.
I happly know nothing about programming and quite frankly have no wish to.
What I do know is that I now have milions of ISK worth of kit that has been rendered pretty much worthless, the ISK, for me, is not the point.
What is the point is that my favorite roles in Eve as a Recon/Covert-Ops/Stealth Bomber pilot have been totaly and utterly nerfed.
Ok, so you can still sit on a gate and be an observer for your corp mates on the other side. Woot Woot! I can do that in Bantam with a Proto Cloak 1.
Stealth Bombers are now scrap. The whole point of one is to be able to uncloak and fire then cloak or keep firing untill someone trys to lock you, then recloak before they do, having to work out if they can lock faster then you can cloak etc...
The game of cat & mouse you can have in enemy teratory in a Cov-Ops or Recon ship is also now unrecognisable. Now, that is, that EVERY ship in the game has the equivalent of an insta lock on you in regards to being able to cloak. Now a BS at 150K can lock me with the same effectiveness as an instalock Inty at 10K, in (for you pedants out there)regards to being able to cloak.
The upshot of this is "Programming is no concern of mine commander" I enjoy this game as the best computer game I have ever played (I am 40 years old btw) and the only game I have ever been able to forsee myself playing in at least a years time as opposed to getting board of it in a couple of months.
The amount of money CCP must be making from Eve is staggering, this 'bug to feature' move is totally unprofesional and with the amount of resorces CCP have they should be able to fix it.
For CCP to turn a bug into a feature is just poor show.
So, come on chaps don't ruin a whole aspect of the game, sort it out.
Rax
./o_
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Kai Jyokoroi
133rd Ghost Wing
R i s e
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Posted - 2006.08.31 08:44:00 -
[73]
Check the news on the login page. They realise it is a top priority getting it fixed so the patch has been delayed to fix the most important things.
They listened to us! Woo! Go CCP! 
_____________
The day I receive my first moderator forum-sig hijack is the day I realise I have won Eve.
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Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
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Posted - 2006.08.31 15:45:00 -
[74]
What are you referring to?
Quote:
When German client version is selected, the character sheet and, more specifically the skills list, do not load or render properly. In depth testing and attempts to resolve the issue have not been successful. The Dev team will continue to investigate the issue and work on a solution.
Is all I am seeing there. Nothing about the cloak bug or such.
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