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Stop the use of 'pk'

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Juwi Kotch Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD	Posted - 2006.08.30 19:02:00 - [31] Originally by: Labtest Originally by: Juwi Kotch Originally by: Labtest What do you base your definition of pirate on? Pirates are going for ISK, not for kills. Pirates don't kill, when no ISK can be earned. Again, what do you base your definition of pirate on? A shuttle can have a t2 bpo in its cargohold. I think you would have made a very poor pirate. Sure would I have made very poor pirate. That's just not my type of business. How many shuttles with a T2 BPO in the hold are travelling through low sec, what do you think? You could say as well that the pilot could have blue eyes which you hate that much that you just must kill all pilots, because you never know, this one has blue eyes. You are just looking for excuses to kill. Pirates do not just kill. They want profit. Profit is the pirates business, not randomly killing. PKs do randomly kill. Juwi Kotch
Juwi Kotch Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD	Posted - 2006.08.30 19:04:00 - [32] Originally by: Commander Thrawn Originally by: Labtest Originally by: Juwi Kotch Originally by: Labtest What do you base your definition of pirate on? Pirates are going for ISK, not for kills. Pirates don't kill, when no ISK can be earned. Again, what do you base your definition of pirate on? A shuttle can have a t2 bpo in its cargohold. I think you would have made a very poor pirate. signed, he clearly doesn't understand how the current state of how pirating works. Best to pop a target and hope for a good drop then to ransom(which he probably wont pay) and wait for his blob to come in and gank you. Also ransoming is really only valid when killing miners or ratters(belt piracy). If your camping a gate, you kinda have sentries to worry about so pop goes the ship. Doesn't mean im a "pk" ffs; means I'm a freaking pirate and I will do what I want to do to make my isks. I never said that a pirate's business is easy. Juwi Kotch
Commander Thrawn Fluffy rabbit killer's inc	Posted - 2006.08.30 19:04:00 - [33] Edited by: Commander Thrawn on 30/08/2006 19:04:54 Originally by: Juwi Kotch Originally by: Labtest Originally by: Juwi Kotch Originally by: Labtest What do you base your definition of pirate on? Pirates are going for ISK, not for kills. Pirates don't kill, when no ISK can be earned. Again, what do you base your definition of pirate on? A shuttle can have a t2 bpo in its cargohold. I think you would have made a very poor pirate. Sure would I have made very poor pirate. That's just not my type of business. How many shuttles with a T2 BPO in the hold are travelling through low sec, what do you think? You could say as well that the pilot could have blue eyes which you hate that much that you just must kill all pilots, because you never know, this one has blue eyes. You are just looking for excuses to kill. Pirates do not just kill. They want profit. Profit is the pirates business, not randomly killing. PKs do randomly kill. Juwi Kotch just shows how much you know, most ppl traveling with expensive implants or bpo's will use a ceptor, covert ops or a shuttle. why because they warp fast and are hard to target Note this is also the reason why you shoot first ask questions later if you scan then decide to scramble, he's already in warp
Juwi Kotch Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD	Posted - 2006.08.30 19:06:00 - [34] Originally by: Commander Thrawn just shows how much you know, most ppl traveling with expensive implants or bpo's will use a ceptor, covert ops or a shuttle. why because they warp fast and are hard to target Note this is also the reason why you shoot first ask questions later if you scan then decide to scramble, he's already in warp Yes to ceptor or covert ops, no to shuttles. Juwi Kotch
Neon Genesis Gallente Hooligans Of War	Posted - 2006.08.30 19:06:00 - [35] Originally by: Juwi Kotch Originally by: Labtest Originally by: Juwi Kotch Originally by: Labtest What do you base your definition of pirate on? Pirates are going for ISK, not for kills. Pirates don't kill, when no ISK can be earned. Again, what do you base your definition of pirate on? A shuttle can have a t2 bpo in its cargohold. I think you would have made a very poor pirate. Sure would I have made very poor pirate. That's just not my type of business. How many shuttles with a T2 BPO in the hold are travelling through low sec, what do you think? You could say as well that the pilot could have blue eyes which you hate that much that you just must kill all pilots, because you never know, this one has blue eyes. You are just looking for excuses to kill. Pirates do not just kill. They want profit. Profit is the pirates business, not randomly killing. PKs do randomly kill. Juwi Kotch PK is an archaic word that dosn't belong in eve, in the slightest. Get off your high horse about piracy, you really don't understand how it works.
Juwi Kotch Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD	Posted - 2006.08.30 19:07:00 - [36] Originally by: Neon Genesis PK is an archaic word that dosn't belong in eve, in the slightest. Get off your high horse about piracy, you really don't understand how it works. I've dealt with pirates and PKs in MMOGs for now more then 7 years. It is about time, that the fine distinction between a pirate and a PK is introduced to EVE. Juwi Kotch
Labtest	Posted - 2006.08.30 19:09:00 - [37] Originally by: Juwi Kotch Pirates do not just kill. They want profit. Profit is the pirates business, not randomly killing. PKs do randomly kill. Juwi Kotch Again, what do you base your definition of pirate on? Would you mind giving me an answer? And who are you to say that pirates arent allowed to enjoy killing people? Thats mne of the main reasons we became pirates....to kill people and take their stuff. Truth is, the only times I didnt kill pods was when I played while drunk(I get really friendly when drunk lol)
Juwi Kotch Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD	Posted - 2006.08.30 19:20:00 - [38] Originally by: Labtest Originally by: Juwi Kotch Pirates do not just kill. They want profit. Profit is the pirates business, not randomly killing. PKs do randomly kill. Juwi Kotch Again, what do you base your definition of pirate on? Would you mind giving me an answer? And who are you to say that pirates arent allowed to enjoy killing people? Thats mne of the main reasons we became pirates....to kill people and take their stuff. Truth is, the only times I didnt kill pods was when I played while drunk(I get really friendly when drunk lol) It's the definition I learned from the very first MMOG in the market, where piracy was a profession, and PKing was, well PKing. This definition was taken mainly from MUDs, real life pirats, and carribian pirate history. But that is irrelevant. This thread is about PKs, and the use of the label PK within EVE. When you want to discuss the PK term in EVE, you naturally have to seggregate it from the label EVE's PKs gave themselves, pirate. Another approach you could use is, that PKs perceive EVE as a kind of FPS, while pirates see EVE as a roleplay game. EVE is full of PKs, but has only very few pirates. Juwi Kotch
Labtest	Posted - 2006.08.30 19:23:00 - [39] Edited by: Labtest on 30/08/2006 19:24:48 Edited by: Labtest on 30/08/2006 19:23:30 Originally by: Juwi Kotch It's the definition I learned from the very first MMOG in the market, where piracy was a profession, and PKing was, well PKing. This definition was taken mainly from MUDs, real life pirats, and carribian pirate history. 1. EVE isnt other mmo's 2. The definition taken from real life pirates is wrong. You seam to have some form of romatntic image of pirates as someone wearing striped shirts that ask you to surrender your loot or die. Edward England From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Edward England, born Edward Seegar in Ireland, was a famous African coast and Indian Ocean pirate from 1717 to 1720. The ships he sailed on included the Pearl and later the Fancy, for which England exchanged the Pearl in 1720. His flag was the classic Jolly Roger with a skull above two crossed thigh bones on a black background. He differed from many other pirates of his day in that he did not kill captives unless it was absolutely necessary. However, this ultimately led to his downfall, for his crew mutinied against him when he refused to kill sailors from the Casandra, an English trading ship, captained by James Macrae. He was subsequently marooned on Mauritius, where he fashioned a small raft and made it to St. Augustine's Bay in Madagascar. England survived for a short while by begging for food and died around the end of 1720. So you see, not only does history argue against you, but also pirates in EVE themselves. Juwi Kotch, Johny Depp isnt a real pirate. Ok?
Juwi Kotch Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD	Posted - 2006.08.30 19:36:00 - [40] Originally by: Labtest 1. EVE isnt other mmo's 2. The definition taken from real life pirates is wrong. You seam to have some form of romatntic image of pirates as someone wearing striped shirts that ask you to surrender your loot or die. Edward England From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Edward England, born Edward Seegar in Ireland, was a famous African coast and Indian Ocean pirate from 1717 to 1720. The ships he sailed on included the Pearl and later the Fancy, for which England exchanged the Pearl in 1720. His flag was the classic Jolly Roger with a skull above two crossed thigh bones on a black background. He differed from many other pirates of his day in that he did not kill captives unless it was absolutely necessary. However, this ultimately led to his downfall, for his crew mutinied against him when he refused to kill sailors from the Casandra, an English trading ship, captained by James Macrae. He was subsequently marooned on Mauritius, where he fashioned a small raft and made it to St. Augustine's Bay in Madagascar. England survived for a short while by begging for food and died around the end of 1720. So you see, not only does history argue against you, but also pirates in EVE themselves. Juwi Kotch, Johny Depp isnt a real pirate. Ok? Eve isnt other mmo's : of course it's not like other MMOGs, and that's the reason why I'm here. But EVE is still a MMOG. Edward England : I bet you had that article already copied when you asked the first time for my pirate definition . Today pirates make profits of around 15 billion USD per year, give or take 5. That's the pirate's job. Sure do they kill their victims. But what they don't do, is snipe a raw boat from 200km or sink this tiny fisher boat. They go for the money. They don't waste their time randomly destroy ships. Neither on sea, nor in space. But as I said, that's irrelevant. We are talking about PKs here. PKs are player killers. That's it what's it about. They go for the kill, and therefore they deserve this label. Juwi Kotch
Labtest	Posted - 2006.08.30 19:41:00 - [41] Originally by: Juwi Kotch Edward England : I bet you had that article already copied when you asked the first time for my pirate definition . Guilty as charged Quote: Today pirates make profits of around 15 billion USD per year, give or take 5. That's the pirate's job. Sure do they kill their victims. But what they don't do, is snipe a raw boat from 200km or sink this tiny fisher boat. They go for the money. They don't waste their time randomly destroy ships. Neither on sea, nor in space. But the average person wont travel across the atlantic in a tiny fishing boat.....in EVE they DO!
wierchas noobhunter Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.08.30 19:56:00 - [42] PK PK pk Pk pK pK PK
Juwi Kotch Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD	Posted - 2006.08.30 19:59:00 - [43] Originally by: wierchas noobhunter PK PK pk Pk pK pK PK Juwi Kotch
Juwi Kotch Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD	Posted - 2006.08.30 19:59:00 - [44] Originally by: Labtest But the average person wont travel across the atlantic in a tiny fishing boat.....in EVE they DO! By far the most piracy acts today are commited in harbours or near shore. Where all the tiny ships are... If you wish, you can check that here. Juwi Kotch
Labtest	Posted - 2006.08.30 20:05:00 - [45] Originally by: Juwi Kotch Originally by: Labtest But the average person wont travel across the atlantic in a tiny fishing boat.....in EVE they DO! By far the most piracy acts today are commited in harbours or near shore. Where all the tiny ships are... If you wish, you can check that here. Juwi Kotch Its like arguing with a rock
Juwi Kotch Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD	Posted - 2006.08.30 20:10:00 - [46] Originally by: Labtest Its like arguing with a rock Just accept that you are a PK and not a pirate, and everything is good again. Juwi Kotch
Dekiri Useless Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.30 20:35:00 - [47] Originally by: Labtest Its like arguing with a rock Welcome to the internet! -------------- My dad can beat up your dad! Support lowsec!
magnus amadeus Amarr Hammer Of Light	Posted - 2006.08.30 21:07:00 - [48] Edited by: magnus amadeus on 30/08/2006 21:09:06 I think this is pretty funny, people normally only get offended by names if they are true. Hell just look at that carebear thread. IF your a carebear your a carebear, no need to get all mad and defensive about terminology. Same thing goes for PK'ers; if the shoe fits wear it. Oh, and juwi is right btw. Think about it, if your a career criminal, do you want that much attention? You know, the kinda attention killing 700 ships would bring you? -------------- Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you down with experience.
Xlera	Posted - 2006.08.30 21:14:00 - [49] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Originally by: Master Spoonman Edited by: Master Spoonman on 30/08/2006 05:53:19 Originally by: Labtest Other games where you pick flowers and hold hands I honestly wonder in this history of gaming whether one was made based on this. WoW Alliaanna It's funny cause it's true
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.08.30 21:32:00 - [50] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Originally by: Master Spoonman Edited by: Master Spoonman on 30/08/2006 05:53:19 Originally by: Labtest Other games where you pick flowers and hold hands I honestly wonder in this history of gaming whether one was made based on this. WoW Alliaanna HEWY HOW I MINE 4 FISH? Oh my bad, that's FFXI.
Commander Thrawn Fluffy rabbit killer's inc	Posted - 2006.08.30 21:44:00 - [51] hey, Juwi Kotch. Just nice contradiction to all the crap you've been speewing around about shooting shuttles. here's a prime example http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=384215
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.30 21:59:00 - [52] Agree with op, the term pk'er seems very dumb and out of place in eve tbh Iron and G eat babie's , my views are my own, they do not refect my corp or my alliance
Juwi Kotch Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD	Posted - 2006.08.30 22:41:00 - [53] Originally by: Commander Thrawn hey, Juwi Kotch. Just nice contradiction to all the crap you've been speewing around about shooting shuttles. here's a prime example http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=384215 That's barely a contradiction. When you see one black swan, do you insist from that time on that all swans are black? This guy had PK'd for a year and was incredibly lucky that day. What he stated himself and what was confirmed by all other contributers to that thread. Stick to the rule, not to the exeption. Juwi Kotch
Commander Thrawn Fluffy rabbit killer's inc	Posted - 2006.08.31 00:05:00 - [54] Edited by: Commander Thrawn on 31/08/2006 00:05:55 Originally by: Juwi Kotch Originally by: Commander Thrawn hey, Juwi Kotch. Just nice contradiction to all the crap you've been speewing around about shooting shuttles. here's a prime example http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=384215 That's barely a contradiction. When you see one black swan, do you insist from that time on that all swans are black? This guy had PK'd for a year and was incredibly lucky that day. What he stated himself and what was confirmed by all other contributers to that thread. Stick to the rule, not to the exeption. Juwi Kotch lol you're just being hard headed. What that proves is that we pirate kill to profit. shuttles do carry expensive loot and even tho only 1 out of 1000 shuttles might have something expensive on it, not ganking a shuttle means we might just have missed the one odd case.
Maximillian Pele Caldari Jewel Enterprises	Posted - 2006.08.31 01:31:00 - [55] Blowing up a ship is not "player killing". Podding should probably be called Clone Killing [CKing] rather than player killing as the player isn't killed. But frankly too many pirates in EvE seem to be EMO: they wannabe scary pirates but they mope and cry when someone calls them names. Pfft! In times of doubt I ask myself "What would BoB do?", and then do the opposite.
McTaggart Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.31 01:38:00 - [56] Originally by: Juwi Kotch When you see one black swan, do you insist from that time on that all swans are black? They sure as hell are around here (I'm not building on your metapor or anything, they really are all black here). PK is a damn silly sounding word. People using it look silly. My 0.02.
Maximillian Pele Caldari Jewel Enterprises	Posted - 2006.08.31 02:07:00 - [57] If EvE pirates were real piratesàà Scene: 18th century û Spanish Main. A merchantman has fallen to ruthless pirates. Pirate: Yarrrrr! Top of the mornin to ye Captain. WeÆll be takin all ye gold and ye cargo and be enjoying ye wimin if ye not be minding. Then weÆll tickle ye toes a while with the point of this here blade. Then ya be walkin the plank with ye crew. Give me regards to Davy Jones if ye make it past the sharks. Yarrr! Captain: You Dastard! Pirate: [sniff] Ye be hurtin me feelings matey. If any of ye scury dogs be needin me IÆll be in yarr cabin crying and listening to Atreyu. [sob] Yarrr! In times of doubt I ask myself "What would BoB do?", and then do the opposite.
Labtest	Posted - 2006.08.31 05:26:00 - [58] Originally by: Juwi Kotch Originally by: Commander Thrawn hey, Juwi Kotch. Just nice contradiction to all the crap you've been speewing around about shooting shuttles. here's a prime example http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=384215 That's barely a contradiction. When you see one black swan, do you insist from that time on that all swans are black? This guy had PK'd for a year and was incredibly lucky that day. What he stated himself and what was confirmed by all other contributers to that thread. Stick to the rule, not to the exeption. Juwi Kotch LOL youre the most stubborn person ever, go back to wow/daoc or whatever
Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2006.08.31 08:52:00 - [59] Originally by: Juwi Kotch Pirates are going for ISK .. PKs are out for kills .. Pirates .. don't .. kill .. empty haulers Although I agree with the basis of your definitions, I think your examples are a bit too far reaching. Like, seems your image of a pirate is a person roleplaying a romantized pirate. So, to summary what kind of definitions, in my opinion, matches current Eve: PvP - Player versus Player : All interaction between players, where gains for one are (opportunity) losses to others. This includes stuff like hauling NPC goods, PC market operations, scams and PC fights & wars. It pretty much excludes agent missions and mining (since for most of the time there are more asteroids than miners). PK - Player Killing : Act of killing other player's game token (that is, a ship or capsule) And for PK, three mostly exclusive sub-categories: Pkiller - Player whose (at least periodically) main motivation is to seek and participate in PK combats (for the challenge, fun, occasional spoils, killboard rating etc). Pirate - A player whose main motivation for PK combat is potential ISK gain (loot/ransom) through targets. Soldier(?) - A player whose main motivation for PK combat are tactical/strategical benefits for his own side; or loyalty to his superior/mates. This leaves out quite a few further sub-categories, like those with roleplaying/griefing motives. That is, if label other players or their actions, we should give those names based on the motivation and/or intention of the player, rather than actions itself. Hence a would-be pirate might pick a potentially profitable route, and just shoot (for convenience) everything that passes. Where a PKiller might hop from belt to belt, killing even noob frigates mining veldspar. -Lasse
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.31 16:20:00 - [60] Juwi is right. It's the same as it is in Ultima Online, which used to have the same setup as Eve has nowadays. PK = red = murderer, someone that kills just for the sake of killing, indeed the FPS-type of players. Pirates on the other hand may kill, but they do it for loot and money, not to get another kill. And by the way, wouldn't it be glorious if we had a full Trammel server for Eve?

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