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To all Matari and Amarr - Slavery to end

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Shiv Katall Minmatar Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.30 07:06:00 - [1] I am not of the Republic Parliament nor do I speak for them. I know there is those within the Parliament that feel as I do and have done as I have. My father was a Brutor Defiant and my time in captivity gave me the eye disease. It was out of respect for him that I have not had the surgery to correct my vision. Malaetu Shakor felt the same and became a great individual to our cause. I understand what he felt and I hope that Malaetu Shakor still remembers the cause for which he had fought for. I hope that he can bring the Parliament into agreement to commit the Fleet and the Republic Security Services to our cause. As I have said, even without their help, I will fight and I pray that all Minmatari rise up to take arms in whatever fashion they can contribute and end the slavery of our people. I ask those that are living within The Federations space to return home and begin helping our fighters with every necessity they need to prepare and eventually carry out their missions and to make our society better and stronger than it has ever been.. Even within the Amarr Empire there are its own citizens that do not practice nor agree with the Empires policy. Now is your chance to do something about and voice your opinion. Corporations dedicated to our cause should cease all trade with the Amarr and begin preparing its pilots for the day that is to come. We will bring warfare to the Amarrs like they have never seen before. Even if we must become our own faction to do it. Our time is approaching, the Amarrs is ending. Blood for blood. Release all slaves and save face with the other empires or allow us to end it for you. Blood for blood.
Shiv Katall Minmatar Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.30 07:06:00 - [2] I direct this message to the citizens of the Amarr Empire, to the royal families, and to those still enslaved within and outside of any Amarr territory. For centuries you have held the Matari captive. You have subjugated them to torture for amusement. You force harsh living conditions that claim thousands of lives. You control only with the lethal Vitoc drug and the slavers. While those captive have become to depend on Vitoc to stay alive, the same has to be said of the Amarr Empire. You need my captive brothers and sisters for your empire to retain itself militarily and most importantly monetarily. Without us you would collapse in on yourselves. We realize this and I am sure the Five Heirs do as well. Not long ago many of our people rose up and cast you down. We stripped away the mantle of slavery and reformed our empire. To the Amarrs, you can be defeated. You have been by the Gallente when you tried to subjugate their worlds. You were dealt a devastating blow by the JovianÆs when you thought you could take them on. Then The Rebellion came and you lost more. You will be defeated again and again. As long as it takes to free the last of ours, you will be fought against. The Matari will rise up again. Our fleets have been growing. Our people are determined. We have regained much that was lost in our time of captivity to you. We will not stand for your cruel reign for much longer. We give you this one last chance to release ALL persons that you hold in slavery against their Will. In the near future may it be tomorrow or six months from now, if The Heirs have not released all those that are slaves you will face the might of the Minmatar capsule pilots. We will fight you without the aid of the Republic itself if we must. We will take one system at a time to release our brethren from your chains. We will die a thousand deaths but continue to come back. We will be like your slaver hounds that do not give up once they have the smell of their hapless victim that they are hunting. The end of your empire as you know it is drawing to an end. To all true Matari I ask that you prepare yourselves for this battle for that is what it will surely come to. Train yourselves harder every day. Prepare your ships and crew. Stockpile your weapons and ammunition and pray that it will spill the blood twice fold of what has been spilled at the hands of the Amarr.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.30 07:14:00 - [3] No. Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
General Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.08.30 07:15:00 - [4] Are you speaking in the name of your aliance ?
Ethidium Bromide ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.30 08:31:00 - [5] Originally by: Shiv Katall rabble, rabble rabble, rabble rabble rabble! Ethidium Bromide wipes tears of laughing from his face and takes on a serious expression The plebs have no idea what they speak of, again. Your demands are not only preposterous but also show that you have yet to understand what slavery stands for. Other than that i can just repeat what Vice Admiral Rodj Blake allready said : NO Originally by: George Petsch Nochricht: Dei schwarer StroinlSser trifftn Karli[Baatzis] und ruiniert erm so richtig de Dosn, 1343.7 schhodn, oida.
Michiyo Daishi Royal Knights of Khanid	Posted - 2006.08.30 08:37:00 - [6] Whilst I have no qualms nor favors regarding Mimmatar, I prefer the status quo, and as such, it points to an answer. A negative answer. I'm sorry, but thats how the status quo regards this display of will. - want a sig like mine? 5m!
Rakatan Ronala Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.30 08:37:00 - [7] If Amarr you are so superior why cant you do simple manual labor youreself then?Why is it that youre view on other races is both stupid,and shortsighted,when youre supposed to have great wisdom?I dont know about you,but il liberate every slave i can get my hands on until you serve youreself,grow youre own damn crops and alot more of that work. You have one messed up culture.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.30 10:15:00 - [8] Originally by: Rakatan Ronala Edited by: Rakatan Ronala on 30/08/2006 08:38:24 If you Amarr are so superior why cant you do simple manual labor youreself then?Why is it that youre view on other races is both stupid,and shortsighted,when youre supposed to have great wisdom?I dont know about you,but il liberate every slave i can get my hands on until you serve youreself,grow youre own damn crops and alot more of that work. You have one messed up culture. Hard work is good for the soul. By generously giving our slaves the opportunity to work hard, we are helping them get closer to God. Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
Rakatan Ronala Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.30 10:57:00 - [9] If we want to work hard we can find hard work oureselfes,we dont need you or youre terrible methods to give us that,let us be already. And another thing:I dont want to get closer to this god of yours,in fact,i want to get as far away from it as possible!And i doubt im the only one.
Jim Hawkins Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2006.08.30 12:23:00 - [10] "Leave us alone, we don't want it!" You sound like a child refusing its medicine. Well, as bitter as the medicine may be, it is for your own good in the end and you would do well to remember that.
Rakatan Ronala Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.30 12:33:00 - [11] Edited by: Rakatan Ronala on 30/08/2006 12:33:17 No good comes out of this,dont even try to tell me you do it for the slaves,they are left with no choiche,if its for there own good why not let them choose? And please,what good comes out of it other then the god nonsense?
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.30 12:39:00 - [12] Originally by: Rakatan Ronala Edited by: Rakatan Ronala on 30/08/2006 12:33:17 No good comes out of this,dont even try to tell me you do it for the slaves,they are left with no choiche,if its for there own good why not let them choose? And please,what good comes out of it other then the god nonsense? Would you let a child choose his own bedtime? Would you let that same child eat chocolate all day long instead of his greens? By turning away from God, Minmatars have shown that they are unable to take decisions, ansd so require our guidance. Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
Rakatan Ronala Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.30 12:45:00 - [13] Minmatars can decide just fine,we are not children!You cannot force a religion upon someone either. And just stop pretending you care,the only reason you realy want slaves is to do the work you are obviously incapable of doing,and those practices make me think you follow a devil,not a god. Now until this god gets down here to tell us we need help i dont think he exists,and until you leave the minmatars alone you will be evil in alot of eyes.
Ethidium Bromide ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.30 12:50:00 - [14] Originally by: Rakatan Ronala Minmatars can decide just fine,we are not children!You cannot force a religion upon someone either. And just stop pretending you care,the only reason you realy want slaves is to do the work you are obviously incapable of doing,and those practices make me think you follow a devil,not a god. Now until this god gets down here to tell us we need help i dont think he exists,and until you leave the minmatars alone you will be evil in alot of eyes. they are basicly doing rather useless work most of the time machines could handle aswell and even for less cost. the fact we do have them working is that we want to give them chance to reach a state amarrs are allready born at through the simpley 'ora et labora' principle. Originally by: George Petsch Nochricht: Dei schwarer StroinlSser trifftn Karli[Baatzis] und ruiniert erm so richtig de Dosn, 1343.7 schhodn, oida.
Amira Silvermist Ubiqua Seraph Aegis Militia	Posted - 2006.08.30 12:51:00 - [15] Originally by: Rakatan Ronala If we want to work hard we can find hard work oureselfes Ah, that probably the reason why so many of you leave their kin behind and flee to the next Gallente drug hole...
Rakatan Ronala Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.30 12:57:00 - [16] Please,there is more to the Gallente federation then simply drugs. And what makes you think they WANT anything you have to offer in exchanghe for their service as slaves?
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.30 13:04:00 - [17] Originally by: Rakatan Ronala Please,there is more to the Gallente federation then simply drugs. And what makes you think they WANT anything you have to offer in exchanghe for their service as slaves? Just because thay don't want something, it doesn't automatically follow that they don't need it. Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
Rakatan Ronala Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.30 13:06:00 - [18] And just what makes you think we need it then?Many Minmatar have gotton by just fine without you interfering,The Minmatar can take care of themselfes just fine and if youd care about them youd release them,if you dont care then its going to happen the hard way.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.30 13:16:00 - [19] Originally by: Rakatan Ronala And just what makes you think we need it then?Many Minmatar have gotton by just fine without you interfering,The Minmatar can take care of themselfes just fine and if youd care about them youd release them,if you dont care then its going to happen the hard way. Gotten by just fine? Have you taken a look at the squalid queues of unemployed Minmatars in the Republic and Federation? Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
Rakatan Ronala Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.30 13:19:00 - [20] They will manage,if they dont they can always come crawling back to you. If its their choiche i wont have any objections,but the moment you enslave others against their will you are asking to have guns pointed at you. I dont understand you,i never will,but i do understand that slavery is a very whrong thing,and no decent society should embrace it,its inexusable.
Ethidium Bromide ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.30 13:19:00 - [21] Originally by: Rakatan Ronala And just what makes you think we need it then?Many Minmatar have gotton by just fine without you interfering,The Minmatar can take care of themselfes just fine and if youd care about them youd release them,if you dont care then its going to happen the hard way. If it wasn't for Amarr the minmatar would still be climbing trees and only dream of duct tape! Originally by: George Petsch Nochricht: Dei schwarer StroinlSser trifftn Karli[Baatzis] und ruiniert erm so richtig de Dosn, 1343.7 schhodn, oida.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.30 13:24:00 - [22] Originally by: Rakatan Ronala They will manage,if they dont they can always come crawling back to you. If its their choiche i wont have any objections,but the moment you enslave others against their will you are asking to have guns pointed at you. I dont understand you,i never will,but i do understand that slavery is a very whrong thing,and no decent society should embrace it,its inexusable. Do you consider giving the ignorant an education to be wrong? Do you consider giving the unemployed a meaningful job something that no decent society should embrace? Do you consider feeding the hungry to be inexcusable? Because slavery does all of these things and more. Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
Rakatan Ronala Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.30 13:27:00 - [23] The more including pain,suffering and never being able to rise above the poverty that is being a slave,no thanks! Like i said if slavery is so good why not let them choose?You have no right to decide the fate of other races,Education should be given by teachers,not other children.
Drakolus Amarr Free Industries Union	Posted - 2006.08.30 14:01:00 - [24] Before you go declaring genocide upon all of Amarrian origin realize that some are on your side. I was once a slaver, an oppressor and I was content in my power. It took another breaking my world apart, enslaving those I cared about and destroying my family, business and life for me to realize the travesty and sin that is slavery. Like many others, I have finally realized the evil that corrupts the Amarrian empire from within. The Emperor is NOT a God, he is a man prone to all of the fallacies that entails. Slavery is NOT right; it is merely the strong dominating the weak and thus growing weaker in the end. I say all of this because there are those who have repented. There are Amarrians and Ni-kunni such as myself who are opposed to slavery...violently so. I have lost my fortune, my family and my future but I have gained so much. I now have a purpose and a cause. I fight against slavery and I fight to free those who are enslaved. Most of my fight has been economic so far but I have been training for the future. I was once an industrialist and a trader...now I am a weapon against Tyranny. And no...this message does not represent the thoughts, feelings and/or actions of my Corporation, it is just me, trying to remind people that not all fit into convenient stereotypes. Molden Heath Local #473
Rakatan Ronala Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.30 14:05:00 - [25] Well then i apologize,i had feared no Amarr would see the error of their ways..its good to see.
Shiv Katall Minmatar Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.30 16:37:00 - [26] Of course I do not speak for the corporation in which I am employed. I speak for those slaves that are not allowed a voice. This message is to the citizens so that they know that warning has been given to the slavers. Drakolus is not the only one that has realized how wrong slavery is. Sadly he had to go thru his own personal hell to see how badly it is.. I truely feel sorry for him. Their are others within the Amarr Empire that have realized this for what it is. The Amarr Empire in its current state of affairs could not function without those it holds in slavery. It would create an economic collapse that would set them back for years. If the current captives rose up in a second rebillion it would only remind the Amarr of the losses hey have faced against the first and their other failed attempts to obtain more slaves from the other empires. Do not think yourselves almighty. We have seen your forces thrown back. Once we had a beautiful empire until the Amarr came. Now we are rebuilding what was lost and making new. Scorn and laugh at us with our ships if you must, but remember that our missles hit just as hard as yours and our projectile ammo will leave devestating holes in your ships. Our technology is only going to improve with new ships that every Amarr slave holder will fear. Do not take my words lightly. Do prepare yourselves for we will be coming across many fronts.
Rakatan Ronala Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.30 17:05:00 - [27] Though id like to wipe the Amarr and there slavers out aswell...sadly i have to admit that we are in no state for war wit the Amarr..we would likely lose.. A sad but true fact.
Luric Vizjier The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.30 17:30:00 - [28] Vitoc, I think most of you do not understand its purpose. Allow me to explain. Not all, and by which I mean a good 75% of slaves which are traded through legal markets, are worked nearly as hard or treated as poorly as you suggest. Most are given ample shelter, food, and education as well as a clean environment to even possibly raise a family. Slaves very often lead lives similar to that of a common Amarrian, just under someone's watchful eye. The problem is that you believe all Amarrians are "on the high-horse" types with bundles of riches while their slaves live in shacks and are beaten daily. I fail to see how an entire society, of hundreds of billions, can all fit this archetype. There are in fact farmers, industry workers, and more among us. And to the commoner who may only have a single slave or two, generally they live together under similar conditions, even under the same roof. And to the rich owner who has hundreds if not thousands, slaves are kept living within apartment complexes often which include many amenities a commoner on land may never even see. Now, Vitoc, as I'm sure you understand, is a method of insurance; rarely actually used to invoke fear in slaves except by the worst of society. And, while it can be an effective method of control, it is much more of an insurance policy against terrorists like yourself. Considering you probably have an explicit idea of how Vitoc works, you may now understand why it is we use it. Amarrians do not enjoy losing their assets, and so death by Vitoc is a fitting punishment for any terrorist to watch. Understand now? Good. -----------------------------------------------
Shiv Katall Minmatar Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.30 17:31:00 - [29] With a mentality like that, no army would ever win a fight. There have been many battles thru history in which out numbered armiesÆ waged wars and come out victorious. One must go into the fight with high morale and fight with everything that they have. Yes we will have losses and very possibly a great number, but we must remain steadfast in our goals. If the Amarr Empire will not release those they hold captive willingly than we take the price in their blood. We must help every one of ours become free and help contribute to making our Republic stronger. We must create jobs to increase our economies and raise our people from the poor lives they are facing. If you expect to lose a fight, then surely you will and only become a hindrance. Become stronger. Train yourself physically and mentally. We will win. Our people demand release and we must bring freedom to them.
Shiv Katall Minmatar Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.30 17:34:00 - [30] Luric, say what you will in order to justify holding another against their will and make a pretty picture. It is still slavery. The fact that it may only be used on special occassions makes it no less wrong. Use it on yourself if you feel so good about it. Use it on your family and others of your empire. You hold my people against their will and that will not be allowed any longer.
Kaleigh Doyle Rho Dynamics	Posted - 2006.08.30 17:52:00 - [31] Perhaps encouraging the pilots of your alliance would be a wonderful place to curb the abominable practice of slavery. People often overlook the fact that such behavior is just as prevalent in the outlaw regions as the Empire.
Rakatan Ronala Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.30 18:16:00 - [32] He may be right,but that percentage is considerably lower,most get vitoc,slave hounds,and do not live like the common amarrian,only the lucky ones,i am certain! And please,do not think we can win such a war,they will pay in blood then.. But how much will we pay?Will it be worth the price?And would any slaves or free Minmatars survive?There is to much at stake to act reckless!
Heldane Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.08.30 18:31:00 - [33] A significant portion of my house's income is allocated to the care and protection of it's slaves. The majority of slaves that live and work for my family would be horrified and lost if they were to suddenly be "set free" and forced to fend for themselves. They enjoy a high standard of life, content that all that they should require both physically and spiritually is well provided for. By persuing your terrorist agenda you would leave countless thousands without food and shelter or the guiding hand of God to protect them. The complete lack of gratitude shown by the rogue elements of the Matari people towards the benevolant actions of our glorious Empire truly appalls me.
Shiv Katall Minmatar Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.30 18:43:00 - [34] The price to pay is nothing compared to doing nothing at all. To continue to allow this to happen makes us just as bad as the slavers themselves. We will find a cure for any who are dependent on the Vitoc drug. We could set up programs to help those find work and teach them how to support themselves. Once a great many of us were slaved but we fought back and earned our freedom. With blood. The road was hard yet we have gained much. They can do the same with our help. Blood for blood is demanded if the Amarr Empire will not release our people. The work will be hard, the price will be high. the end goal will more than justify any price.
Kaleigh Doyle Rho Dynamics	Posted - 2006.08.30 18:50:00 - [35] Quote: A significant portion of my house's income is allocated to the care and protection of it's slaves. The majority of slaves that live and work for my family would be horrified and lost if they were to suddenly be "set free" and forced to fend for themselves. They enjoy a high standard of life, content that all that they should require both physically and spiritually is well provided for. By persuing your terrorist agenda you would leave countless thousands without food and shelter or the guiding hand of God to protect them. The complete lack of gratitude shown by the rogue elements of the Matari people towards the benevolant actions of our glorious Empire truly appalls me. You do realize that if the Matari people had not been kidnapped and enslaved to begin with, there wouldn't be any worry about reintegration or terrorism. You made your own problems.
Rakatan Ronala Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.30 19:01:00 - [36] Indeed,i am pleased that the slaves are taken care of,but it is no act of kindness,they are tools to you,and i just cant stand it..i know that slavery can be a terrible,terrible thing,perhaps it can be good to,but until i recieve more proof then the word of someone whose race i do not trust,i cannot believe you enough to cease my actions,perhaps it is you that needs salvation,not us..if some devine might is up there,wanting the best for all those living in the universe,hes going to be pretty mad when he sees his so called "chosen" make things miserable in the galaxy! And again i must ask,why not let them free?If they truly cannot stand on there own two feet,would they go down?Or simply return to you?
Heldane Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.08.30 20:05:00 - [37] The majority of the slaves under my family's care have been our property for generations, born into their servitude and know little of the harsh and cruel world outside of the confines of our compound. You would have us simply turn these poor souls out into the uncaring world to fend for themselves and eventually become a burden on the society that must cloth and feed them. Isn't your pathetic republic already overtaxed by the number of transients and reprobates pouring through its inadequate social system? So many so that they are fleeing to the gallente federation territories to escape the rampant crime and poverty infesting their homes? The matari have demonstrated time and again their inability to proprly govern and control their base instincts. Only through enlightenment and the truth of His word can they be taught to lead fulfilling and worthy lives. The gift of slavery and reeducation that our glorious empire offers these wayward souls assures that they are given the chance to lead productive and fulfilling lives in service to God. What more could one ask for?
Rakatan Ronala Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.30 20:42:00 - [38] What more could one ask for?A life free of servitude and chains of the Amarr,be they physical or mental chains!Or not having to be told about god all the time,just because you believe in him dousnt mean everyone dous,the republic will hold,freed slaves will get a life that is truly theirs,a life that they lead,not their owners. But will you accept any view other then yours?You would not consider slavery a gift if you where a slave youreself i am certain.
Heldane Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.08.30 22:05:00 - [39] Edited by: Heldane on 30/08/2006 22:12:24 Edited by: Heldane on 30/08/2006 22:05:46 I am a slave and servant to the will and word of God. A role I cherish and shall endeavour to remain worthy of. The only thing brazen announcements such as this one accomplish is to display the matari's own penchant for self destructiveness and desperate need for firm guidance. You boldy and loudly demand for the freedom of slaves yet you offer no real plan as to what these slaves should do other than pull up their bootstraps and enjoy their freedom wether they like it or not. Not all matari have the benefit of being wealthy enough to learn and use the skills necessary to be a pod pilot. Its easy for you to sit on your pedestal and demand they be freed from their bondage. After all, you are not the one that will be starving in a months time. This is all needless bantering anyway. Louder voices than yours have "demanded" the freeing of slaves and yet here they remain. Many by their own choosing.
Shiv Katall Minmatar Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.30 22:44:00 - [40] Heldane, remind yourself of the first rebellion. Those of us that are pod pilots now came from the seeds that those who took your chains off planted. We grew into our wealth. I understand that you are all scared. You know the implications of what would happen should another rebellion occur. My voice will not diminish as time grows. It will only grow until the Republic hears. I will not be alone. Many will stand beside me. I may not be the loudest or the greatest to stand up, but I will remain persistent. I do not promise the slaves a beautiful life or am I saying that it will be easy. It will be hard for them to get used to a life where they are not being controlled on a daily basis. They will struggle just as the first of us have done when we defied your rule. Do not think that you will ever convince me of otherwise. Even if some of you are more friendly with those you hold, they still wear a collar and you hold the leash. They will be freed.
Heldane Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.08.30 23:30:00 - [41] Considering the rebellion was 125 years ago and I am still a relatively young man I cannot give you first hand knowledge of what occured during those turbulent times. The aftermath of that rebellion clearly displays it's folly. The Minmatar republic is suffering and faltering under its woefully inadequate leadership and were it not for the aid of the gallente you would have come crawling back and begging to be chained once more. You claim we fear you, yet it is terrorists such as yourself that skulk in the dark corners of space and make weightless threats aimed at your betters. A man who walks in the light of God has nothing to fear from the darkness. Do not mistake pity and disdain for fear.
Shiv Katall Minmatar Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.30 23:47:00 - [42] Terrorist.. I will not try to change your view of me. Call me what you will. I say I am a patriot of the Republic yet I support what Captain Muritor has done and if his target is the Amarr Empire then I wish him the best. Everyone knows that we are not strong enough to stand toe to toe against the Amarr. Our tactics will be quick raids against military targets. Sadly as in every war, the loss of innocent life is going to happen, but innocent civilians are not our targets. I am sure the Amarr Empire will label us as terrorist to rally support to fight against us, so be it. Define me as you and they will, I will not relent in my quest.
Heldane Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.08.31 00:02:00 - [43] Worry not how I or any man judges you. Instead it would be better to contemplate on your appearance in the eyes of God. I am but a humble servant and instrument of His divine will. I label you a terrorist for that is the agenda you and your kind promote, all the while claiming that the innocent lives you destroy are simply the price of war. My experience with "freedom fighters" such as you has shown me nothing but a penchant for chaos and violence with complete disregard for the lives lost. I have seen thousands of slaves die to the overzealous guns of their oh so caring brothers, who's rationale is that they are better off dead than enslaved. This lack of vision and compassion reveals the true motive behind your violent methods. You are pirates and villains of the worst sort, but you wave the flag of righteous indignation as a cover for your criminal actions.
Shiv Katall Minmatar Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.31 04:45:00 - [44] I do not believe in a god but that is not the topic we are discussing, but obviously I do not care what god or gods would think of me should they exist. That being said. I have given my ultimatum. I will go at this alone if I must and will do so happily even if I am only able to bring just one more to freedom.
Rakatan Ronala Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.31 05:28:00 - [45] I know a very good hand gesture to give that god of yours... Anyway,you have good thoughts about slavery,but freedom is not good?Please,those slaves can be fed and sheltred,and schooled to build a life of there own,a life they couldnt build before,you took that opportunity from them.
General Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.08.31 05:50:00 - [46] Originally by: Shiv Katall Of course I do not speak for the corporation in which I am employed. I speak for those slaves that are not allowed a voice. This message is to the citizens so that they know that warning has been given to the slavers. Drakolus is not the only one that has realized how wrong slavery is. Sadly he had to go thru his own personal hell to see how badly it is.. I truely feel sorry for him. Their are others within the Amarr Empire that have realized this for what it is. The Amarr Empire in its current state of affairs could not function without those it holds in slavery. It would create an economic collapse that would set them back for years. If the current captives rose up in a second rebillion it would only remind the Amarr of the losses hey have faced against the first and their other failed attempts to obtain more slaves from the other empires. Do not think yourselves almighty. We have seen your forces thrown back. Once we had a beautiful empire until the Amarr came. Now we are rebuilding what was lost and making new. Scorn and laugh at us with our ships if you must, but remember that our missles hit just as hard as yours and our projectile ammo will leave devestating holes in your ships. Our technology is only going to improve with new ships that every Amarr slave holder will fear. Do not take my words lightly. Do prepare yourselves for we will be coming across many fronts. I need someone to polish my ships. I'm not a slaver myself but in this case of defiance i'll make an exception. All you're doing whit this posts is drraw more amarrians to the fight.
Delta Recon	Posted - 2006.08.31 05:52:00 - [47] Edited by: Delta Recon on 31/08/2006 05:55:36 Originally by: Shiv Katall With a mentality like that, no army would ever win a fight. There have been many battles thru history in which out numbered armies’ waged wars and come out victorious. One must go into the fight with high morale and fight with everything that they have. Yes we will have losses and very possibly a great number, but we must remain steadfast in our goals. If the Amarr Empire will not release those they hold captive willingly than we take the price in their blood. We must help every one of ours become free and help contribute to making our Republic stronger. We must create jobs to increase our economies and raise our people from the poor lives they are facing. If you expect to lose a fight, then surely you will and only become a hindrance. Become stronger. Train yourself physically and mentally. We will win. Our people demand release and we must bring freedom to them. Outnumber armys usualy won by tactics something that some cave age tribes don't have.
General Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.08.31 05:55:00 - [48] Originally by: Shiv Katall The price to pay is nothing compared to doing nothing at all. To continue to allow this to happen makes us just as bad as the slavers themselves. We will find a cure for any who are dependent on the Vitoc drug. We could set up programs to help those find work and teach them how to support themselves. Once a great many of us were slaved but we fought back and earned our freedom. With blood. The road was hard yet we have gained much. They can do the same with our help. Blood for blood is demanded if the Amarr Empire will not release our people. The work will be hard, the price will be high. the end goal will more than justify any price. The price to pay is total destruction of your race. Are you willing to lose whatever you got left , chasing a chimera ?
Shiv Katall Minmatar Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.31 07:05:00 - [49] What we have left? When the Amarrians came into Pator and descended onto our planets that was the point in which we lost everything we had. At that point we had nothing left. Only if you could bring us back to that point would you be able to take everything from us, which you can not do. I welcome every Amarr slaver into this fight and those that support slavers such as yourself. You are rascist against my race which was proved with your statement about polishing your ship/ Your words have been meaningless since then. But I will indulge you. You will not be able to take everything from us again. I am not scared to lose. I will give everything to free my people. Our rebellion has not ceased since it first began, it has only changed tactics but since Amarr only responds with war then that is what I will give you.
Valkazm Amarr Cursed Spawn Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.08.31 08:41:00 - [50] Someone should put a leash on this one
Rakatan Ronala Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.31 15:35:00 - [51] Originally by: Shiv Katall What we have left? When the Amarrians came into Pator and descended onto our planets that was the point in which we lost everything we had. At that point we had nothing left. Only if you could bring us back to that point would you be able to take everything from us, which you can not do. I welcome every Amarr slaver into this fight and those that support slavers such as yourself. You are rascist against my race which was proved with your statement about polishing your ship/ Your words have been meaningless since then. But I will indulge you. You will not be able to take everything from us again. I am not scared to lose. I will give everything to free my people. Our rebellion has not ceased since it first began, it has only changed tactics but since Amarr only responds with war then that is what I will give you. You take this to far..i understand youre feelings but you underestimate the Amarr,if you make them wage war against the Minmatar it will be you who destroys what we have managed to build,the odds of victory against the Amarr are to low..patience is needed.
Heldane Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.08.31 15:55:00 - [52] Edited by: Heldane on 31/08/2006 15:55:41 A pity for you Shiv that wars cannot be won by sheer bravado. Again I hear the mention of these freed slaves being educated, fed and taken care of once they are cast out, yet the republic has thus far proven that this is not in fact the truth. Do you deny the mass exodus of the matari tribes from the republic? Do you deny the rampant criminal and pirate activity that infests the republic borders? You say these abandoned slaves would be cared for, but how can this reeling farce of a government cough hope to care for even more displaced refugees? Free the slaves is a convenient rallying cry for those short sighted individuals who only wish to free their brethren because they view their very existence as some emotional stain on their honor. I am certain these freedom fighters will not be spending their time working in the shelters and derelict habs the vast majority of these forsaken souls will end up in were this "liberation" to come to pass.
Rakatan Ronala Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.31 16:07:00 - [53] Oh quite a few are working to help the slaves,pod pilots however,are not,they are needed for other duties and it is mostly left in others hands,but they are very capable hands! And yes..some Minmatar have gone to the Federation,they have proven themselfes to be strong allies,and a good people,Minmatar going there only help to improve relationships,as i am sure i will one day lend my guns to them,as they help us we shall help them. And please,short-sighted for liberating slaves?For not assuming that slavery is good for them?You are just as short-sighted in assuming that freedom is such a bad thing for a Minmatar,so thats hardly a valid statement.
Heldane Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.08.31 17:00:00 - [54] Edited by: Heldane on 31/08/2006 17:01:38 these message services can be appaling in their buggyness at times
Heldane Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.08.31 17:01:00 - [55]
General Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.08.31 17:08:00 - [56] Originally by: Shiv Katall You are rascist against my race which was proved with your statement about polishing your ship/ Your words have been meaningless since then. But I will indulge you. You are a racist against interracial comunication and prosperity. And by the way factional war is deployed in december so untill then keep hiding in your alliance space.
Heldane Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.08.31 17:13:00 - [57] Edited by: Heldane on 31/08/2006 17:16:13 Originally by: Rakatan Ronala Oh quite a few are working to help the slaves,pod pilots however,are not,they are needed for other duties and it is mostly left in others hands,but they are very capable hands! Which capable hands would these be? The hands of the republic that has already demonstrated a total inability to deal with the current refugee problem? Or will it be the hands of the gallente federation that is already becoming frustrated with the inability of the matari to handle their own problems after adapting so horribly to their democratic ideals? Originally by: Rakatan Ronala And yes..some Minmatar have gone to the Federation,they have proven themselfes to be strong allies,and a good people,Minmatar going there only help to improve relationships,as i am sure i will one day lend my guns to them,as they help us we shall help them. Yes, give untrained people guns and set them loose. With this reasoning you only prove what we Amarr have known for generations. The matari are base savages that require guidance and control lest they become a danger to themselves and all peaceful people of our galaxy. Out of kindness and dutiful adherance to holy scripture we have generously accepted this burden as our own. Originally by: Rakatan Ronala And please,short-sighted for liberating slaves?For not assuming that slavery is good for them?You are just as short-sighted in assuming that freedom is such a bad thing for a Minmatar,so thats hardly a valid statement. Yes, extremely short sighted. It is a simple thing to lay down demands for liberation of slaves when you are not the one to be left with the logistical nightmare of having to suddenly deal with an influx on millions of refugees demanding to be provided for. I assure you that the powers within the republic and the federation quietly recognize the service we Amarr provide by selflessly dealing with this problem.
Rakatan Ronala Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.31 17:25:00 - [58] You have also demonstrated a total inability to deal with the problem of slaves wanting to be free,the gallente and minmatars can deal with the refugee problem,especially when both lend help,is it that whrong to accept aid? And i didnt say id start handing out guns to the first minmatar i see,ofcourse they have to learn to use one first,must i state every little detail for you to get it? And i assure you it is not reconized,replace selflessly with selfishly and you might be on to sompthing,a nightmare as it may be it is a nightmare they willingly go through to help them,and do you think doing the liberating is easy?Taking care of the refugees is no more difficult then freeing them in the first place..unless ofcourse the slaver in question is completely incompetent. Now you speak alot of scriptures,and god,and more of how you wish to help them get closer to god like the ways of the Amarr,you should get one thing in youre head:Minmatar ways are not Amarr ways,just because a race is not like yours dousnt make it any less,if you believe otherwise you are blind,very blind,but that was already obvious.
Shiv Katall Minmatar Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.31 17:36:00 - [59] Please do try harder. I do not hide anywhere. I travel thru all of empire whenever I wish to. To the people who think doing nothing or patience is the best course of action. You will never amount to anyting until you try. Patience for what? You think the Republic will do anything? Of course not because they fear the military might of the Amarr Navy. This is why we must support The Defiants. Right now they are out there waiting for their time to strike. Our time, the pod pilot forces of the Republic is coming all too soon. That is why I said we must begin preparing ourselves for this. I could be wrong, The Republic agents could be planning hit and run strikes against the empire at this very moment. We must choose our targets carefully and strike with lightning speed and accuracy. I refuse to sit by just because they are bigger. As long as the med clone bays continue to work I will continue to fight. To the people who say the Republic could not handle such masses. This is no reason to give up. I am free now because of the first rebellion. When we defeated you we had nothing. You had destroyed all of our ships when you took our space. Now look at us. We may not have the prettiest ships, but they hit just as hard as every other races.
Heldane Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.08.31 17:43:00 - [60] Edited by: Heldane on 31/08/2006 17:45:08 Originally by: Rakatan Ronala ,must i state every little detail for you to get it? Actually I would like to see any amount of detail from you. You use blanket statements and broad generalizations when addressing the question of care for the liberated slaves, yet all evidence points to the complete inability for any of these rehabilitation methods you suggest to be practically employed. If the federation and the republic are so well equipped to deal with this issue then why is there already a problem with the placement and care of the current matari transients? We Amarr are the ones who truly care for the matari. We offer them solace and a meaningful life of studious work and devotion to God. It is my belief and hope that the wayward children such as you will one day realize the error of their ways and return to their proper homes and place in the greater scheme of things. Continuously we offer the matari our hand in hopes that you will recognize the sincere generosity behind our efforts. The republic cannot care for them, the federation does not want them. Only here among God's chosen people can they find true peace and learn their proper position in life.
Rakatan Ronala Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.31 18:06:00 - [61] Edited by: Rakatan Ronala on 31/08/2006 18:08:42 Please,you abuse slaves for youre own gain,wich is sickening,they do not want youre help,they do not believe in god,and did nothing to deserve such treatment,but before we discuss further,will anything,no matter how detailed or proven it would be,changhe youre view?I think youre to stubborn and if you can not even try to understand another persons point of view you cannot judge it either,nor can this be discussed,for you cannot be convinced.
Heldane Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.08.31 18:34:00 - [62] Originally by: Rakatan Ronala Edited by: Rakatan Ronala on 31/08/2006 18:08:42 Please,you abuse slaves for youre own gain,wich is sickening,they do not want youre help,they do not believe in god,and did nothing to deserve such treatment,but before we discuss further,will anything,no matter how detailed or proven it would be,changhe youre view?I think youre to stubborn and if you can not even try to understand another persons point of view you cannot judge it either,nor can this be discussed,for you cannot be convinced. I back up my statements with conviction and fact. Certainly you cannot hope to convince anyone that your logic is sound when you dodge simple questions to which you already claim to have the answers with further slandering and conjecture. Where is your "proof" of these limitless funds and personelle that are to handle the refugee problem that would follow your great liberation? You claim I am stubborn and connot be disuaded from my own way of thinking, yet all you have provided as a recourse for my ideaology is fanatical rantings and unsubstantial claims.
Tyr Vaantau Amarr Ubiqua Seraph Aegis Militia	Posted - 2006.08.31 18:44:00 - [63] Originally by: Rakatan Ronala Edited by: Rakatan Ronala on 31/08/2006 18:08:42 Please,you abuse slaves for youre own gain,wich is sickening,they do not want youre help,they do not believe in god,and did nothing to deserve such treatment,but before we discuss further,will anything,no matter how detailed or proven it would be,changhe youre view?I think youre to stubborn and if you can not even try to understand another persons point of view you cannot judge it either,nor can this be discussed,for you cannot be convinced. Your argument has one major problem, Rakatan. We Amarr have grown up (for us Immortals, centuries or millenia) with this slavery as part of our culture. Culture and belief cannot be washed away by words here alone, it would take decades of radical change to end slavery in the Amarr Empire - the people are not willing to change. I hope to God it stays that way too. Consider your argument as being the same as demanding the Gallente to give up their liberalism in a week, or dictating to the Caldari that they should scuttle their space navies immedietely. Simply put, your demands are intolerant, have not been properly thought out, and are selfish. What is wrong to you is not wrong to us, so stop trying to enforce your sense of "right" upon us.
Rakatan Ronala Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.31 18:44:00 - [64] Hardly unlimited,but we do manage,i will not deny it is hard but we manage,but i was aiming at youre opinion about slavery being good,when i ask for an explenation i get some twisted opinion about bringing the slaves closer to god and a place to stay and it being good for them bla bla bla..the sentence "Do not want it" seems to be alien to you.
Tyr Vaantau Amarr Ubiqua Seraph Aegis Militia	Posted - 2006.08.31 18:54:00 - [65] Originally by: Rakatan Ronala Edited by: Rakatan Ronala on 31/08/2006 18:51:33 Edited by: Rakatan Ronala on 31/08/2006 18:47:14 Hardly unlimited,but we do manage,i will not deny it is hard but we manage,but i was aiming at youre opinion about slavery being good,when i ask for an explenation i get some twisted opinion about bringing the slaves closer to god and a place to stay and it being good for them bla bla bla..the sentence "Do not want it" seems to be alien to you. Indeed Vaantau,the major problem here is that youre culture is now getting in the way of and is actually destroying ours,i can not stand by and let that happen for the sake of how you are raised,if words will not changhe it then violence will be the ansewer,this matter will not be laid to rest until one side is in their grave,or adapt there ways,the thought of Amarr adapting their culture to cease slavery is unthinkable,and so is the thought of the Minmatar accepting that their kin is enslaved,and always will be.. ..I fear war is inevitable. Indeed, if you have been on top of the political news world, you would know that. In what world could the Minmatar and Amarr ever be friends? The answer, is NO world. We are ancient enemies, and enemies go to war.
Rakatan Ronala Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.31 18:58:00 - [66] Well where not gunning at each other now,meaning they can live side by side for a time,i had hoped peace was the next step,but i agree that war is the next step,a shame,but i shall prepeare for the day when war breaks loose once more.
Swift Wind Caldari Matari Liberation Organization	Posted - 2006.08.31 19:21:00 - [67] The MLO will stand ready to assist in the abolishment of slavery throught the galexy. We currently have a DB of Slave sellers and buyers if your in need of targets :) If you profit from the sale and trade of human beings, the cost of doing buisness is about to skyrocket.
Heldane Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.08.31 19:27:00 - [68] Originally by: Rakatan Ronala Hardly unlimited,but we do manage,i will not deny it is hard but we manage Once again your fantasy denies reality. How do you consider the current state of affairs proper management? With the republic funds already taxed and the social system failing how could you possibly believe that another influx of millions of penniless refugees to be a positive thing that the governing faction would welcome?. Originally by: Rakatan Ronala i was aiming at youre opinion about slavery being good,when i ask for an explenation i get some twisted opinion about bringing the slaves closer to god and a place to stay and it being good for them bla bla bla..the sentence "Do not want it" seems to be alien to you. This is purely a matter of opinion. I have stated to you the obvious advantages to being a slave but you are too blind to understand or accept them. You have already stated that you are a heathen who denounces the holy scripture, therefore I do not expect one of such minimal spiritual capacity to understand. I can only attest to my own experiences after having seen the joy and contentment on the faces of my slaves after completing the indoctrination process. I would have to be a monster to turn them away and deny them their rightfull chance at salvation. The only reason any of them would willingly leave is if I shirked my responsibility to insure that they are properly educated and made to understand their place, and I assure that will not happen. Originally by: Rakatan Ronala Indeed Vaantau,the major problem here is that youre culture is now getting in the way of and is actually destroying ours,i can not stand by and let that happen for the sake of how you are raised,if words will not changhe it then violence will be the ansewer,this matter will not be laid to rest until one side is in their grave,or adapt there ways,the thought of Amarr adapting their culture to cease slavery is unthinkable,and so is the thought of the Minmatar accepting that their kin is enslaved,and always will be.. ..I fear war is inevitable. You cannot seem to grasp the notion that we are SAVING the minmatar, not destroying them. If war is indeed inevitable then at least I know that the mitari under my care will escape the genocide that will surely be the fate of your ilk to whom violence seems to be the eternal answer. I wouldn't count on salvation in the form of a jovian fleet this time around.
Tyr Vaantau Amarr Ubiqua Seraph Aegis Militia	Posted - 2006.08.31 19:28:00 - [69] Originally by: Rakatan Ronala Well where not gunning at each other now,meaning they can live side by side for a time,i had hoped peace was the next step,but i agree that war is the next step,a shame,but i shall prepeare for the day when war breaks loose once more. Oh aren't we?
Shiv Katall Minmatar Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.31 19:41:00 - [70] Edited by: Shiv Katall on 31/08/2006 19:42:48 Quote: Simply put, your demands are intolerant, have not been properly thought out, and are selfish. What is wrong to you is not wrong to us, so stop trying to enforce your sense of "right" upon us. How ironic this entire statement is. Do I really need to find all the places where people have said that they are making our people worship your "God"? Then trying to enforce our sense of right on you. What the hell do you think you have been doing to our people all this time. Exactly that. Do you expect us to tolerate slavery only because it is the way it has been for centuries to the Amarr Empire? That is not the way with our race but that does not matter at all to your thinking. To you, your way is right and thats the end of the discussion. Other cultures and their beliefs mean nothing to you. You can only enslave races that are weaker than yourselves. You need the Matari to survive. You need slavery to survive. Without it your society will crumble. That is the simple fact and that is why the Amarr race will never give up slavery. We succeeded against you once and will do so again. If we start freeing mass numbers of slaves the Republic will be forced to deal with the problem. Social work programs will be created and temporary housing will be supplied. I am sure my demands are just as intolerant but that is ok with me.
Tyr Vaantau Amarr Ubiqua Seraph Aegis Militia	Posted - 2006.08.31 19:48:00 - [71] Originally by: Shiv Katall Edited by: Shiv Katall on 31/08/2006 19:42:48 Quote: Simply put, your demands are intolerant, have not been properly thought out, and are selfish. What is wrong to you is not wrong to us, so stop trying to enforce your sense of "right" upon us. How ironic this entire statement is. Do I really need to find all the places where people have said that they are making our people worship your "God"? Then trying to enforce our sense of right on you. What the hell do you think you have been doing to our people all this time. Exactly that. Do you expect us to tolerate slavery only because it is the way it has been for centuries to the Amarr Empire? That is not the way with our race but that does not matter at all to your thinking. To you, your way is right and thats the end of the discussion. Other cultures and their beliefs mean nothing to you. You can only enslave races that are weaker than yourselves. You need the Matari to survive. You need slavery to survive. Without it your society will crumble. That is the simple fact and that is why the Amarr race will never give up slavery. We succeeded against you once and will do so again. If we start freeing mass numbers of slaves the Republic will be forced to deal with the problem. Social work programs will be created and temporary housing will be supplied. I am sure my demands are just as intolerant but that is ok with me. You are correct, it was ironic, but a world without irony isn't possible. And the "you do X Y and Z to your slaves" is a somewhat weak argument. People do allsorts of things to them, and not just what you claim.
Heldane Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.08.31 19:56:00 - [72] Originally by: Shiv Katall I am sure my demands are just as intolerant but that is ok with me. So now we have come to the root of your issue. You have already noted that you do not have the support of your alliance and that your demands are intolerable and you do not expect them to be heeded. Therefore this entire announcement of yours is a hollow as your heathen soul. You are one tiny voice that has not a shred of the influence or power necessary to carry out your convictions, but you scream futiley into the darkness in an attempt to satiate your own messianic complex. You are not the savior of your people, your solution is to dump these poor souls on the republic border and hope someone else cares for them, all the while claiming you are some kind of saint or symbol of mitari liberation. Your feeble efforts here are just one of countless hundreds that have changed absolutely nothing and will ultimately be forgotten. In all honesty I feel sorrow and pity for you. To wander blindly without the guiding light of God is a horror I cannot fathom. Your ignorance and barbarism only strengthen my conviction that the minmatar must be saved from themselves before they destroy themselves.
Rakatan Ronala Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.31 20:08:00 - [73] Look,if like i said before if you cannot even consider another mans view on things you cannot attend a discussion,stating youre opinion and claiming it as facts and simply stating that we are whrong is not good enough,not good enough by far,especially as you do not even seem to consider what others say,just state things you already said. I know what you said and i think its the biggest nonsense i have ever herd!If you dont care about the views of Minmatar why are you entering a discussion with them in the first place?
Camar Stormriders	Posted - 2006.08.31 20:12:00 - [74] Originally by: Swift Wind The MLO will stand ready to assist in the abolishment of slavery throught the galexy. We currently have a DB of Slave sellers and buyers if your in need of targets :) If you would share this information with us I would be most thankful Mr. Wind.
Shiv Katall Minmatar Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.31 20:18:00 - [75] I make no such claims that I am saint or saviour of my people. If you can find such a place that I have said that I am one of these then please do point it out to me. The intolerable statement I made about my words was sarcasm, perhaps your God does not allow such things to exist. You are correct though saying that I am a tiny voice. I will not argue this at all. But all great movements have a tendancy to start with one small voice that grows. If you take thousands of such voices they are no longer tiny. My convictions are to myself with hope that others will realize what also must be done. I am not the leader in such a great movement, just a tiny voice with others. Take a single mosquito, if it bites it is no thing at all. Easily squashed. What if there is a swarm of them, then such a tiny insect becomes a large swarm. Then it is a problem. I want my people to be free. To live how they want and make their own choices as they see fit. I do not have all the solutions to every problem that they will face when they are free. I dont claim too. That is for the politicians of the Minmatar Republic to put together and work out. My conviction is not to sit by idly and let my people remain in captivity. Do not feel sorrow for me because I do not believe in an imaginary being that I need to look to for guidance. I believe in myself. What ever happens will do so because that is what was meant to be.
Heldane Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.08.31 20:18:00 - [76] I have taken part in this "conversation" because I do care, far more than you do apparently. My entire argument has been centered around what do do with the countless millions that would be freed should your call for liberation be heeded. We have spent years attempting to bring these lost souls to salvation, is it my fault that you reject what so many others have accepted? Your solution is simply to free them, cast them out into an uncaring universe with nothing but the clothes on their backs without any guarantee that they will be able to even survive. Will you harbor them in your expensive station hangars and employ them to wash your ships and organize your ill-gotten gains? No, your solution is to dump them on reserves and hope the republic can sc*****together enough ISK to keep them fed. I counter that by saying that this supposed freedom you so loudly cry for is far worse than the care they now receive from their holders. You only offer ultimatums and demands without any clear strategy or actually contemplating what it is you are demanding.
Heldane Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.08.31 20:19:00 - [77] Edited by: Heldane on 31/08/2006 20:21:32 Edited by: Heldane on 31/08/2006 20:18:57 This movement started long before your announcment. So far your entire philosophy is based on your wants and desires. Who are you to speak for the minmatar people? You who have never been beholden to slavery and can only make guesses and empty accusations of what sucha life entails?
Heldane Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.08.31 20:26:00 - [78] Originally by: Shiv Katall II want my people to be free. To live how they want and make their own choices as they see fit. I do not have all the solutions to every problem that they will face when they are free. I dont claim too. That is for the politicians of the Minmatar Republic to put together and work out. My conviction is not to sit by idly and let my people remain in captivity. So your efforts are purely selfish by your own admittance. You do not have any answers just bold words and presumptuous ideals. You are a prime example of why the minmatar need our guidance. Your instinct is to simply act without properly assessing the situation. I would hazard a guess that as a child you left your toys strewn about when you were done with them and assumed your parents would tidy your mess. Fortunately you do not speak for your republic, your people, or your alliance and only for your own selfishness.
Rakatan Ronala Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.31 20:28:00 - [79] Edited by: Rakatan Ronala on 31/08/2006 20:32:56 When oure fleet grows blood will flow Amarr,you may think that slavery is better and that being brought closer to god is good,it might be good for you but not for them!With us they will be taken care of and given the opportunity to start there own life,but you wont believe me will you?No..why believe a "heathen" eh?After all it is i who needs saving.. Maybe you should try to distance youreself from god,let go of youre religeon and let go of youre devotion to god,perhaps then you will find it is not the horror you think it is.
Shiv Katall Minmatar Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.31 20:36:00 - [80] Yes, it is completely selfish of me to want my people to live their life as they choose to. Yes how dare I think only of myself in wanting them to have a free life. Silly me. Please do try to find another argument as that one holds no water at all.
Rakatan Ronala Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.31 20:39:00 - [81] That is true,merely having those wishes is a sign of selflessnes,being prepeared to act on those wishes is a very good sign indeed.
Swift Wind Caldari Matari Liberation Organization	Posted - 2006.08.31 20:42:00 - [82] Edited by: Swift Wind on 31/08/2006 20:42:54 Originally by: Camar Originally by: Swift Wind The MLO will stand ready to assist in the abolishment of slavery throught the galexy. We currently have a DB of Slave sellers and buyers if your in need of targets :) If you would share this information with us I would be most thankful Mr. Wind. We would be happy to. If you please, contact me via eve-mail and I will be happy to give you the most current report. (approx 15 names) Verified as trading or transporting slaves in the last 48 hours. Report includes time, date, location of transaction, and Name of offender, along with the corp and alliances, when applicable. All names in the report have been verified as selling or buying slaves. Also if you look @ our corp standing, any corp that has been verified as containing slave traders will take a -4 standings hit for each transaction. As soon as we compile a weeks report we update our standings. So there will always be a running list of corps that trade slaves. If you profit from the sale and trade of human beings, the cost of doing buisness is about to skyrocket.
Heldane Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.08.31 20:43:00 - [83] Originally by: Shiv Katall Yes, it is completely selfish of me to want my people to live their life as they choose to. Yes how dare I think only of myself in wanting them to have a free life. Silly me. Please do try to find another argument as that one holds no water at all. This is akin to arguing with a stubborn child. You focus only on the parts you wish to hear whilst dodging the actual question. Once again you talk about the things that YOU want, not what is best for anyone other than yourself. Luckily you have the means to be so righteous in your convictions, but you fail to see the downside to your solution, if indeed you put any actual thought into it beyond your own feeling of personal dishonor at sharing a bloodline with a conquered civilization.
Swift Wind Caldari Matari Liberation Organization	Posted - 2006.08.31 20:46:00 - [84] Originally by: Heldane This is akin to arguing with a stubborn child. Exactly, hence why your buisness is being targeted. Trade slaves, you will be forced to protect your traders, in the empire or out. If you profit from the sale and trade of human beings, the cost of doing buisness is about to skyrocket.
Rakatan Ronala Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.31 20:49:00 - [85] Originally by: Heldane Originally by: Shiv Katall Yes, it is completely selfish of me to want my people to live their life as they choose to. Yes how dare I think only of myself in wanting them to have a free life. Silly me. Please do try to find another argument as that one holds no water at all. This is akin to arguing with a stubborn child. You focus only on the parts you wish to hear whilst dodging the actual question. Once again you talk about the things that YOU want, not what is best for anyone other than yourself. Luckily you have the means to be so righteous in your convictions, but you fail to see the downside to your solution Now that reminds me of a certain person..(you)
Shiv Katall Minmatar Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.31 21:04:00 - [86] I will be acting on my wishes. Do not doubt that. That is a promise I have made since graduating from R.M.S. While it is true that I have never been a slave myself. My father and mother had been though. He was a brutor Defiant and in respect of him and his life that he sacrificed so that I may live free I opted out of the surgery to correct my vision. Though I am blind I have a sense of sight that is better than most. My mother and father ran from their captors but it cost him his life as the vitoc drug dependancy could not be shaken. She was a Sebiestor and I closely resemble her I am told. She managed to get me to Vo'shun where we lived for many years. Realizing though that if I was to have any sort of life she would have to get me into the Republic. We were part of a convoy heading into Ammatar space when we were liberated by Malaetu Shakor and his followers. We traveled with them for some time before we were finally able to get shuttle passage to Pator and laid our eyes on Matar for the first time. My mother died shortly after. Her journey and my fathers to get me to safety had finally been completed and she left this world. I may have not been a slave, but I do know of the hardships they faced. I could not be prouder for their decisions and their sacrifice. We entered into the Republic with nothing but because of the generosity of others willing to help, I am free and have thus survived. I want that for my people and I will help deliver them to it. So do not say I know nothing of what they go thru as your captives. Go inject yourself with Vitoc. Let the slaver hounds chase you. Only then can you speak of such things and know what those that you still hold have to live with.
Swift Wind Caldari Matari Liberation Organization	Posted - 2006.08.31 21:17:00 - [87] Originally by: Shiv Katall To the MLO, I will also be contacting you in the future for that list of names. I will be away on business as of tomorrow but will let you know when I return to Empire space. Thank you. We shall await your correspondence. Godspeed in your travels. If you profit from the sale and trade of human beings, the cost of doing buisness is about to skyrocket.
kashkaisha Minmatar Arcana Imperii Ltd.	Posted - 2006.09.01 01:32:00 - [88] Yarrr Kill all those amarrian scum and after, check if there is a inactive clone we can save to place in a museum
Takitoo Ebon Phoenix	Posted - 2006.09.01 09:33:00 - [89] Argh ! A fresh pilot from the Academy threatened the empire ! HOLD THE PRESS ! Noez ! The Empire will crumble ! Aaaahhhhh ! The Matari people ! They're rallying ! Eeeeeeh ! In all seriousity, though. Don't you think that your Quafe induced idea could have possibly come to the leaders of both the Amarr and Matari already ? And that maybe, just maybe they got off their Quafe high and decided to uh ... abandon their Quafe induced idea ? Because it's unrealistic ? ... or like ... Quafe induced ? Maybe even Quafe induced and unrealistic ? I mean really. Let's face it. We're little pilots drifting through space yammering and doing our thng, and maybe, maybe once in a great while the empires look at us, raise an eyebrow and shake their heads. And that's about all we do to influence the empires. Takitoo sets down a can of Quafe and shuts off feeds. ___________________________ snip Inappropriate link removed- Tirg Aww. No more funny.
Ly'sol Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.01 09:40:00 - [90] Originally by: Takitoo Argh ! A fresh pilot from the Academy threatened the empire ! HOLD THE PRESS ! Noez ! The Empire will crumble ! Aaaahhhhh ! The Matari people ! They're rallying ! Eeeeeeh ! In all seriousity, though. Don't you think that your Quafe induced idea could have possibly come to the leaders of both the Amarr and Matari already ? And that maybe, just maybe they got off their Quafe high and decided to uh ... abandon their Quafe induced idea ? Because it's unrealistic ? ... or like ... Quafe induced ? Maybe even Quafe induced and unrealistic ? I mean really. Let's face it. We're little pilots drifting through space yammering and doing our thng, and maybe, maybe once in a great while the empires look at us, raise an eyebrow and shake their heads. And that's about all we do to influence the empires. Takitoo sets down a can of Quafe and shuts off feeds. Oooo...a tad cynical are we? Click here for Lysol's Linky Library-last updated 8AUG06
Rakatan Ronala Minmatar	Posted - 2006.09.01 11:16:00 - [91] Well,pod pilots of the minmatar could ask the Amarr to listen,if they dont,they can also rally,blast a big piece of the Amarr ships and stations to dust,then they listen. But like i said before the Minmatar cant match the Amarr yet.(Pay special attention to the word yet)
Benefactor	Posted - 2006.09.01 11:21:00 - [92] Originally by: Shiv Katall Inflammatory Matari rhetoric... Speaking as an Amarrian Holder, who believes in voluntary abolition of slavery from individual to individual, I warn you that the reality is far more sinister than you can imagine. If the Empire, in a moment of unimaginable benevolence, set free ALL of its slaves, as you demand on behalf of some phantasm of governmental authority, what would happen to them? Where would they go? Would the Gallente take them in? I really doubt they can handle any more immigration. The Republic? If anything, it would be in the Empire's best interests to swell the ranks of desperate, unemployed Matari, ripe for recruitment into the criminal underworld that, more likely than anything else, stands a good chance of destroying any remaining semblance of law and order within your borders. No. Slavery can not be abolished overnight. The advent of drone technology, slowly gaining acceptance in the Empire, will increasingly diminish the need for raw, unskilled manpower. Eventually slaves will become more a sign of status than an economic need, and from that point, it would take just one more liberal Emperor to simply declare the practice unnecessary to the doctrine of Reclamation.
Rakatan Ronala Minmatar	Posted - 2006.09.01 11:37:00 - [93] Originally by: Benefactor Originally by: Shiv Katall Inflammatory Matari rhetoric... Speaking as an Amarrian Holder, who believes in voluntary abolition of slavery from individual to individual, I warn you that the reality is far more sinister than you can imagine. If the Empire, in a moment of unimaginable benevolence, set free ALL of its slaves, as you demand on behalf of some phantasm of governmental authority, what would happen to them? Where would they go? Would the Gallente take them in? I really doubt they can handle any more immigration. The Republic? If anything, it would be in the Empire's best interests to swell the ranks of desperate, unemployed Matari, ripe for recruitment into the criminal underworld that, more likely than anything else, stands a good chance of destroying any remaining semblance of law and order within your borders. No. Slavery can not be abolished overnight. The advent of drone technology, slowly gaining acceptance in the Empire, will increasingly diminish the need for raw, unskilled manpower. Eventually slaves will become more a sign of status than an economic need, and from that point, it would take just one more liberal Emperor to simply declare the practice unnecessary to the doctrine of Reclamation. It can be abolished overnight,the process of getting slaves out is harder,they would not be all taken away at once,rather,piece by piece,without the need for Minmatar slaved the Amarr would have no more reason to get in trouble with the Minmatar and thus we could expand oure territory's,as theyd expand the slaves could be harbored there,while im sure the federation could harbor some of them,then,piece by piece slavery would cease to exist in Amarr culture,and all would be free. The main problem ofcourse,is that most Amarr simply dont want to let go of their slaves.
Benefactor	Posted - 2006.09.01 11:46:00 - [94] I offered my slaves a choice. They could go out on their own, into a cold, hostile sea of stars, or they could continue to crew my ship, as they had before, but now for pay, that they could eventually start families, establish a future with. Only three of my hundreds of crew took up the offer to strike out on their own. I can only imagine how difficult their chosen journey was.
Rakatan Ronala Minmatar	Posted - 2006.09.01 11:49:00 - [95] Originally by: Benefactor but now for pay, that they could eventually start families, establish a future with. Im not surprised,now they got a job to and if youre willing to let them go if they want to its a good opportunity to get some money to start out with.
Swift Wind Caldari Matari Liberation Organization	Posted - 2006.09.01 19:26:00 - [96] Originally by: Benefactor I offered my slaves a choice. They could go out on their own, into a cold, hostile sea of stars, or they could continue to crew my ship, as they had before, but now for pay, that they could eventually start families, establish a future with. Only three of my hundreds of crew took up the offer to strike out on their own. I can only imagine how difficult their chosen journey was. If what you say is true, then you gave them a very fair deal. Slaves don't get paid. If you freed them then and offered them a job, as we do, we applaud you, and wish more would follow your lead. Godspeed.. If you profit from the sale and trade of human beings, the cost of doing buisness is about to skyrocket.
Raina Shargand	Posted - 2006.09.01 23:43:00 - [97] Originally by: Swift Wind Originally by: Benefactor I offered my slaves a choice. They could go out on their own, into a cold, hostile sea of stars, or they could continue to crew my ship, as they had before, but now for pay, that they could eventually start families, establish a future with. Only three of my hundreds of crew took up the offer to strike out on their own. I can only imagine how difficult their chosen journey was. If what you say is true, then you gave them a very fair deal. Slaves don't get paid. If you freed them then and offered them a job, as we do, we applaud you, and wish more would follow your lead. Godspeed.. Indeed... were all Amarr as noble as this, and dedicated themselves to the furtherance of a State of Persons rather than a blind, numb, and altogether primitive theocratic monarchy, us Caldari would either have to accept them with open arms as brothers and sisters, or would have a worthier enemy than the degenerate Gallente to worry about. Every person must be given ample motivation and a chance to reach their potential for them to truly become an asset to society. Slavery leaves incomplete and inefficient husks of shattered humanity in its wake: not exactly the best thing for the furtherance of a Nation. There is no motivation in blind slavery and fear, no potential in hopelessness and chains. Bravo. You certainly live up to your chosen name, as only so very few do, and have earned the right to be called a HUMAN. You have defeated the Gom Jabbar, as it were, with your words and acts and emerged a person, rather than an animal like your peers.
Benefactor	Posted - 2006.09.03 06:56:00 - [98] Originally by: Raina Shargand Originally by: Swift Wind Originally by: Benefactor I offered my slaves a choice. They could go out on their own, into a cold, hostile sea of stars, or they could continue to crew my ship, as they had before, but now for pay, that they could eventually start families, establish a future with. Only three of my hundreds of crew took up the offer to strike out on their own. I can only imagine how difficult their chosen journey was. If what you say is true, then you gave them a very fair deal. Slaves don't get paid. If you freed them then and offered them a job, as we do, we applaud you, and wish more would follow your lead. Godspeed.. Indeed... were all Amarr as noble as this, and dedicated themselves to the furtherance of a State of Persons rather than a blind, numb, and altogether primitive theocratic monarchy, us Caldari would either have to accept them with open arms as brothers and sisters, or would have a worthier enemy than the degenerate Gallente to worry about. Every person must be given ample motivation and a chance to reach their potential for them to truly become an asset to society. Slavery leaves incomplete and inefficient husks of shattered humanity in its wake: not exactly the best thing for the furtherance of a Nation. There is no motivation in blind slavery and fear, no potential in hopelessness and chains. Bravo. You certainly live up to your chosen name, as only so very few do, and have earned the right to be called a HUMAN. You have defeated the Gom Jabbar, as it were, with your words and acts and emerged a person, rather than an animal like your peers. You flatter me... But the important thing is the action. If I do not set an example for most of my bretheren, perhaps I could set an example for openmindedness among the Minmatar. It did not come easy... I was literally hauling garbage for a pittance long before the Republic trusted me. Solid, hard work is the basis of a strong character. If my freed slaves wish to remain at my side, they are expected to serve as crew and perform their duties. They are free to leave, yes... but this sea of stars we live in can be a dark and hellish place without friends.
Ficti0n FireTech Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.03 17:48:00 - [99] Roleplaying makes me smile =D
Cmdr Baxter Caldari Skunk Works Corp. C O I N Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.03 19:04:00 - [100] Go out there and do some more homework on the nature of Amarrian economics. You'll see that there is a complex interdependency that, if removed, would trigger nothing short of social upheaval and unrest that could easily spread to affect every single empire in EVE. Calling for the liberation of all slaves in EVE is nothing short of a cheap way to score points. The fact that nobody has, as of yet, presented a far-reaching and all-encompassing plan for how to reintegrate thousands, if not millions, of slaves into mainstream society within the Republic makes me suspect that more radical Minmatar elements are using this matter as a cheap "wave-the-red-flag" tactic. Go do some more homework. Then come back to address the capsuleer community when you have better information at your disposal than cheap threats and naive statements. Commanding Officer S.W.V. Tiger
Halafian Eve University	Posted - 2006.09.06 14:44:00 - [101] Edited by: Halafian on 06/09/2006 14:45:51 Originally by: Shiv Katall Originally by: Shiv Katall Originally by: Shiv Katall Originally by: Shiv Katall Originally by: Shiv Katall Woman, your speech is as the buzzing of flies in my ear. Be silent, and learn your place. Like many Caldari, I once believed that machines could do the work of people, and free them for nobler pursuits. But I was wrong. The end of work is the beginning of the decadent idleness seen in the wasted and pathetic lives of the Gallente swine. Instead, work purifies, work cleanses the spirit. In prayerful work, the Divine can be apprehended. The Minmatar may not fully understand that, just as the child cannot understand why they must eat more than sweets. Our work is to teach them this lesson. That work must be properly placed in the natural order. In nature, there are those at the top, and those at the bottom. It is no disgrace to be at the bottom. It is the way of things for many, and the Minmatar would do well to keep that in mind. And those who seek to disrupt the work of the Divine made manifest in nature, well, they will be dragged squeaking from their little bolt-holes and put to good use. For their own good, and the good of all. Now go, and bring me more wine.
Halafian Eve University	Posted - 2006.09.06 14:44:00 - [102] Edited by: Halafian on 06/09/2006 14:44:03 dup
Arron S Gallente Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.09.06 17:15:00 - [103] The "Citizen" of Ammar have no say in what the holders do.
Sykosys Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.09.06 19:14:00 - [104] Shiv Im afraid your request will go on deaf ears. For so many years I have been fighting these slavers, as it seems my autocannons will be the only way to free our people. But free one day they will be. Free they will be. . .

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