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eat thiskkkkk
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Posted - 2006.08.31 00:18:00 -
[1]
..........of the excessive learning curve in eve.
Ive reactived my account after a trial some 8 months ago, for a game that revolves around player led content why does it take so long to be able to become a part of this player base?
Its going to take me upto 3 months to get all of the learning skills that in the longterm im told will save me at least 6 months fleshing out this charactor, loads of ppl i played SWG with have tried eve but not resubbed due toe excessive and it has to be said somewhat boring 2+ months period it takes to get past the repetitive lvl 2 missions and learning curve.
I find the concept of kitting out a ship to my own personal play style, indeed "living" in Eve quite fascinating, but upon inital empressions i think so many more people would become longterm part of this community if the inital learning curve to get into the game wasnt like some of test to see determination to see though a prolonged, boring and repitive, unrewarding experience that we paying for before we can experience the true qualities that make this game the great game it is, but should be, for so many more people?...........just my 2 cents but with a little tweaking i think eve could comfortably reach and sustain the 500k subscribers it my understanding CCCP were intially aiming for...
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Locke DieDrake
Port Royal Independent Kontractors
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.08.31 00:23:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: eat this***kk
..........of the excessive learning curve in eve.
Ive reactived my account after a trial some 8 months ago, for a game that revolves around player led content why does it take so long to be able to become a part of this player base?
Its going to take me upto 3 months to get all of the learning skills that in the longterm im told will save me at least 6 months fleshing out this charactor, loads of ppl i played SWG with have tried eve but not resubbed due toe excessive and it has to be said somewhat boring 2+ months period it takes to get past the repetitive lvl 2 missions and learning curve.
I find the concept of kitting out a ship to my own personal play style, indeed "living" in Eve quite fascinating, but upon inital empressions i think so many more people would become longterm part of this community if the inital learning curve to get into the game wasnt like some of test to see determination to see though a prolonged, boring and repitive, unrewarding experience that we paying for before we can experience the true qualities that make this game the great game it is, but should be, for so many more people?...........just my 2 cents but with a little tweaking i think eve could comfortably reach and sustain the 500k subscribers it my understanding CCCP were intially aiming for...
1) It takes alot less time than you seem to think to become part of the player base. But you need to find people willing to take in newbs and train them.
2) No one here wants the learning skills, but they are seen as needed, and they help in the long run. If you aren't planning on playing a year from now, don't bother with them.
3) No one here wants 500k players. Right now, we can't even handle the 150k we have.
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The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain.
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Miss Overlord
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2006.08.31 00:25:00 -
[3]
aye its selection of the fittest if u cant hack long term try wow i mean that in a nice way
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Makhaira
Gallente
Lay Low
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Posted - 2006.08.31 00:28:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Makhaira on 31/08/2006 00:27:57
I beg to differ i'm afraid, I've been playing eve under 4 months and have achieved a great deal and tried many things, as well as padding out my wallet. The difference with eve is that it is a freeform game - if you play it conventionally, plodding through the game like you would with e.g. a single player FPS, you will find progress slow, and actions repetitive. However, there are many ways to earn isk, some fun, some risky, some boring, some "questionable", all valid.
If you're finding it unrewarding, just take a step back and look at how you're trying to approach the game, maybe you can get more out of it than you think....
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Qumu
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Posted - 2006.08.31 00:53:00 -
[5]
I'm a new player as well. I found that by being part of 0.0 based corp I was able to get into the action of Eve immediately. Sure I may play the role of a tackler a lot. But that is a very important job, and one that doesn't require a lot of skill to be passable. My char only has 2.8 million SP and a few dozen pvp kills under his belt. While this may be low, average, or whatever, I just wanted to point out that even new players can partake in PVP and make a fair amount of ISk ratting and mining in 0.0 space.
The important part is to find a balance between fun and efficiency. Only you can determine what that is.
Qumu
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Siege
Minmatar
Siegecraft Bounty Hunting
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Posted - 2006.08.31 00:55:00 -
[6]
I still find it odd how many people think you need to do these skills up initially, and spend their first month or so doing nothing BUT the learning skills. Yes, for a long-term player they are a benefit, but until you reach certain points in your career you just don't really need them that much. Get into good frigates, and get all your basic combat or industrial skills up to around 3 or so. Then you can worry about learning, but no need to get them to level 5 right away either...3 or 4 is sufficient and even then you only need to do the important ones.
On rank 1 skills, which are the vast majority that you will be doing for the first couple of months, you get very little benefit from the learning skills unless you are maxing them out. You can be in a fairly well fitted cruiser in a short time, without doing learning skills at all. If you hook up with a corp/alliance, and plan your initial skills right, you should be in a cruiser within a week from start, but will learn a lot and be able to do a lot by staying in frigates too. Don't worry so much about the learning skills until you are thinking about getting into battleships or T2 ships and training for T2 combat gear.
Get cruisers (or industrials, for mining/manufacturing types), as well as missles and medium turrets of choice up to level 3 initially, before you worry about pushing any learning skills past 3 or 4. Get out there, fly something, and enjoy yourself first. A good cruiser can do a lot more than you think, and will put you right into the meat and potatoes of just about all aspects of the game.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.08.31 01:06:00 -
[7]
Originally by: eat this***kk
..........of the excessive learning curve in eve.
The learning curve of eve has nothing to do with the learning skills ;).
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Price Watcher
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Posted - 2006.08.31 01:09:00 -
[8]
OP is right. The learning times have become waaaaaaaaaaay tooooooooooooo Loooooooong.
Cut them by half.
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Celedris
Tharsis Security
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Posted - 2006.08.31 01:11:00 -
[9]
Just join with some friends, jump in rifters, and go roaming around for targets. No one is forcing you to train learning skills and grind missions for months on end.
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hendo001
Caldari
Quantum Tech Mining
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Posted - 2006.08.31 01:15:00 -
[10]
buy some implants to help boost ur attributes.
and then as some ppl have suggested get some of ur basic combat/industry skills done then up ur learning.
Thats what I did and I still havent finished all my learning skills and I have nearly 16 mil sp. 
Visit the QTM forums Linkage
Also visit my blog Linkage |
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Seraphll
Gallente
The Clearwater Society
THE H0RDE
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Posted - 2006.08.31 01:19:00 -
[11]
DUDE, this just so happens to be my hot topic. I personally just spent about 4 months training ALL my learning skilz (T1 AND T2) to level 5. I currently have 2 T2 skilz at 3 and 1 at 4, the rest are 5.
Why, I don't know. How, on and off depending on what I wanted to do (Like get into Mining Barge). Even if you dedicate your initial time to learning skilz that doesn't mean that's ALL you can do.
I do still plan on getting ALL my Learning skilz maxed just not now, I've quit that for some combat skilz now, IM STILL IN MY DESTROYER. I don't even have enough skilz to get the Destroyer a good fit. But that was my decision, and I know it won't pay off for a long, LONG time.
If I wanted to PvP I could have done so in about a month. Pre-reqs are not existant when thinking about PvP(ex. I need learning b4 PvP or my PvP will be inefficient)
My 3 cents.
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Soren Eisarson
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Posted - 2006.08.31 01:23:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Seraphll
DUDE, this just so happens to be my hot topic. I personally just spent about 4 months training ALL my learning skilz (T1 AND T2) to level 5. I currently have 2 T2 skilz at 3 and 1 at 4, the rest are 5.
That is a lot of wasted time tbh, it will take you a very very very very long long time to see a return on the time you invested in training the advanced learning skills to 5. Training the advanced learning skills beyond 4 is unnecessary in most circumstances tbh.
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Mike Moss
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Posted - 2006.08.31 01:32:00 -
[13]
For me, the point really is, why are the learning skills there in the first place as skills that the player must spend precious skill time learning? I've read several threads on this topic and I still don't like the learning skills.
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Humble Voh
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Posted - 2006.08.31 02:12:00 -
[14]
The game's great. The documentation and help is lousy.
From day 1 I've been running combat missions, fighting belt pirates, selling loot and only OCCASIONALLY training some learning skills.
Recently, still a noobette in a cruiser, I've been failing at level 2 missions and doing some lowsec security for miners. Been doing some minor PVP defending against weak pirates.
Wonderful.
Just. Don't. Mine. If. You. Don't. Enjoy. Mining.
Just. Don't. Train. Learning. If. It. Bores. You.
Do. What. You. Want.
Now that's the real learning curve in Eve - you play other RPGs or MMORPGs for years and you get used to doing what people tell you, doing what people say you have to.
In Eve you should find what you enjoy and do that. Don't listen to people telling you what to do.
Except me of course.
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Valkazm
Amarr
Cursed Spawn
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.08.31 02:33:00 -
[15]
lol i like it how its aimed at not being part of the big picture beacuse poor you needs to learn learning skills we all had to do it at somepoint we all had to do minnning we all had to do dying ..
Everyone has to go through it i spent a year in the game soon boosting noobies now means them surpassing the middle aged characters the ones that arent veterans the ones that have had to go through the same procces people are going through now ..
Dont misstake everyone for being a 3 year old veteran except you ..
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Galus Quarto
Vegas Corp.
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Posted - 2006.08.31 03:12:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Galus Quarto on 31/08/2006 03:13:25
The whole learning skills thing is really presented to new players in a poor fashion by the more vetern players. Yes, they will save time in the long run - but there is no need to train them to the extent that new players are instructed right off the bat.
Train the basic learning skills to level 4 after you finish your two week trial and get some essential skills under your belt. After you have them to level 4, train your skills as you would for a few months so you can actually play the game. Once you've reached four or five million skillpoints, then start the long haul training for the advanced learning skills. This is how I trained my main, and sure I may have a few less skill points than other players of my age, but the difference really is hardly worth mentioning and I had much more fun during my early months.
Now, with my alt it's a different story.
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Michiyo Daishi
Royal Knights of Khanid
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Posted - 2006.08.31 03:34:00 -
[17]
I've been playing since April an let me tell you, getting into a good corp was the first decision i've ever done right, even if I blitzed through learning skills up to advanced, I still got into the action quick as a tackler, then later as a scout for my corp.
Take a step back from the game and think on how you want to play it, not how everyone else wants you to play it ("omfg go learning skills first nub!").
-
want a sig like mine? 5m!
Woot first, maybe Eris will poke it later - Xorus
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Jollyreaper
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Posted - 2006.08.31 04:05:00 -
[18]
EVE is a teamplay game. I'm a n00b and loving it so far. Yes, the learning curve is steep. However, think of it as a barrier to entry of more annoying players. Think of it as the internet before AOL. :)
I haven't even touched missions since the first week. I hooked up with a good corp early on and have been having fun ratting, training up new skills, flying escort for mining ops, etc. I'm going to go through some of the level 1 missions soon to find the implants I've heard about that are useful.
If you're interested in joining a corp, try Ace Adventure Corporation. No playtime commitments, good n00b handholding, a pleasant introduction to the game. There's no feeling nicer than getting podded for the first time by a punk and then knowing a cruiser is jumping on his ass from out of nowhere. "Think you're gonna get killz on a n00b? N00b's got friends, buddy!" The people interaction is what I really like. :)
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Rells
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.08.31 04:14:00 -
[19]
Agony has shown repeatedly that even trial accounts can have an impact and be viable in pvp. Skillpoints != winning.
Isnt it time you learned how to fight back? |
Kraven Kor
Sturmgrenadier Inc
R i s e
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Posted - 2006.08.31 04:24:00 -
[20]
EVE does not have a learning curve.
It has a learning cliff.
Best thing to do is find a corp that will train you. It doesn't take a lot of skillpoints to make isk, or to play a useful part in PVP, etc.
EVE is all about who you fly with, and how well you utilize the tools given to you in the game to achieve your goals. Knowledge is power.
Strength through Unity, Discipline, and Honor! |
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Terraform
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.31 04:26:00 -
[21]
I completely agree, the learning skills are somewhat a broken concept sicne you can cut off up to a month if you have the proper implants.
It's too late to change it tho, imagine if CCP suddenly decided that learning skills should go, it would be like another version of SWG where all the players who worked hard gets stabbed in the back.
I just hope CCP won't ever introduce more learning skills besides the ones we have now, they are tedious and to be honest, one of the most game-breaking part of the game. (it's also the main reason why new people won't stay in the game).
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Phaige
Minmatar
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
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Posted - 2006.08.31 05:19:00 -
[22]
The thing about learning skills that I don't understand is, even if your planning on staying long term, there is no real need to fully train them in one shot. Personally, if I wanted, say Frigate IV and it would take me 4days, and my next learning skill would take 7 days, then I'd train the Frig before the Learning. If the skill you want to train takes less time than the learning skill that you have on deck, then I really see no point to training the learnings. ATM I only have two learning skills into the advanced area and I've still managed to get lots of fun stuff done and reach my short term goals w/out issues.
You may be a King or a little street sweeper... but sooner or later you dance wi'de Reaper!! |
Tarquin Tarquinius
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.31 05:22:00 -
[23]
I still haven't finished my learning skills  My basic charisma skill is only at 4. The rest of them I have the second level at 4.
Adivce: Avoid the battleship skills if you don't like long training times.
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The Almighty says this must be a fashionable fight. It's drawn the finest people. - an Amarr Mercenary |
Lardarz B'stard
Amarr
Out Of Exile
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Posted - 2006.08.31 05:25:00 -
[24]
Train something different.
Top up your learning skills later on.
You are never going to catch up to the 3 year old players anyway so don't become another skillpoint-obsessed freak like some of those that hang out in the skills forum.
Exiles Recruitment |
Shinon Asahina
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.31 05:50:00 -
[25]
What I did was get Learning to 3 and put like Lv2-3 of the main stats I was training at the time and just spent a month getting what I wanted so I could have fun. Now I'm spending a month going back and training the learning/stats for the long haul ;)
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Maria Neb
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Posted - 2006.08.31 06:55:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Siege
I still find it odd how many people think you need to do these skills up initially, and spend their first month or so doing nothing BUT the learning skills. Yes, for a long-term player they are a benefit, but until you reach certain points in your career you just don't really need them that much. Get into good frigates, and get all your basic combat or industrial skills up to around 3 or so. Then you can worry about learning, but no need to get them to level 5 right away either...3 or 4 is sufficient and even then you only need to do the important ones.
/agreed
As i did it...
1.) got me a frigate with decent fitting while i was training lvl 1-3 skills as needed
2.) did pve missions
3.) now that training skills takes a week or so started training learning skills
that way you will loose quite a bit time BUT you can play!
reduced training times really start to kick in when it comes to higher lvl skill-training imho
dont waste your time on afk-learning-skill-training...
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Norma Stitz
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Posted - 2006.08.31 07:30:00 -
[27]
It's worth remembering that advanced learning skills didn't arrive in game until about a year after launch, it hasn't hurt any older players.
Don't sweat the learning skills, just enjoy the game
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Sergio Ling
Standard Operations Building Services
Maelstrom Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.31 07:31:00 -
[28]
Originally by: eat this***kk
..........of the excessive learning curve in eve.
Ive reactived my account after a trial some 8 months ago, for a game that revolves around player led content why does it take so long to be able to become a part of this player base?
Its going to take me upto 3 months to get all of the learning skills that in the longterm im told will save me at least 6 months fleshing out this charactor, loads of ppl i played SWG with have tried eve but not resubbed due toe excessive and it has to be said somewhat boring 2+ months period it takes to get past the repetitive lvl 2 missions and learning curve.
I find the concept of kitting out a ship to my own personal play style, indeed "living" in Eve quite fascinating, but upon inital empressions i think so many more people would become longterm part of this community if the inital learning curve to get into the game wasnt like some of test to see determination to see though a prolonged, boring and repitive, unrewarding experience that we paying for before we can experience the true qualities that make this game the great game it is, but should be, for so many more people?...........just my 2 cents but with a little tweaking i think eve could comfortably reach and sustain the 500k subscribers it my understanding CCCP were intially aiming for...
2 things
1 - if we cut learning skills by half, let's not bother having them - instead, give 36 more attribute points to play with from day 1.
2 - isn't CCCP old soviet russia?
Originally by: Oveur
Internally dismissed as carebear whine, we quietly moved our Kestrels to another system. |
123674
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Posted - 2006.08.31 07:34:00 -
[29]
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Aerial Boundaries Inc.
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.08.31 07:44:00 -
[30]
While other people have probably made all these points, I am inclined to post this anyway:
First:
'2+ months period it takes to get past the repetitive lvl 2 missions and learning curve'
I, for one, never bothered with level 2 missions. Or to a large extent my learning skills either (yet). How can it take 2 months to 'get past' missions you don't have to do?
Second:
'so many more people would become longterm part of this community'
If they intend to play longterm, they should have no problem with the learning skills because....
Third:
'before we can experience the true qualities that make this game the great game it is'
...what makes this game great is that, as you describe, you are basically living in a living breathing world where you can do whatever you want. If lack of skills is stopping you from enjoying the game, then your interest in the game is 'the cool content', and thus you are playing the wrong game.
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