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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2006.09.01 01:26:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Kaell Meynn This would be the single best thing that could ever happen to this game.
It would seriously rock. It would make Eve 5x the game it is today, the game it was IMO intended to be.
Unfortunately, it'll never happen.
I guess that there is something slightly more feasible that could be done, and it's probably been proposed a gazillion times:
Clearly link alts to the person behind them.
There's still all kinds of difficulties with that. Nor does it address every issue with multiple characters. But it's slightly less of a pipe dream. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
var'ulfur
Caldari blackwater
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Posted - 2006.09.01 02:05:00 -
[62]
Ok has anyone who post here ever try to run two accounts on one computer And more to the point and will be the point(POWER OF TWO). no more needs to be said. why waste time going over somthing that is the way it is????
talk is cheap the cost of action is enormus
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Zulak
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Posted - 2006.09.01 03:49:00 -
[63]
To the OP, I think this is a good thing to consider and something I always thought about. I know CCP boasts about their higher and higher subscribtion number, but I always thought that's because people are just creating more and more alt accounts. Personally, I have known quite a few people who have tried EVE and left in 3 months even after some brought 6 months time on Power of Two package.. In talking with various people in game, a good percentage of people run on multiple accounts. So if you take that into consideration, it would sighnificantly cut down the number of individuals actually playing the game.
I personally think it would create a better game in general if people stop using multiple accounts, but the way EVE is setup right now, that's just not possible. There are many factors invovled in this. If you want to stop people using multiple accounts, it is just not feasible though technical means. In fact, if you restrict people using multiple accounts, not only does CCP lose alt payments, they would actually see people leaving the game with their mains as well. CCP understands this and it is perhaps the primary reason to allow multiple accounts than just pocketing alt payments. As said, the real change can not come from technical restrictions but come from foundamental game change so that people actually DON'T need to use multiple accounts.
So what's the basic reason EVE Online favors multiple accounts? The real reason is this game is based on just time. So you say then what mmo doesn't need you to put a lot of time, but that's where the difference occurs. A lot of EVE's gameplay are based on time and very little activity. Your skill training doesn't require you to do anything. Your hauling doesn't require you to do much. Your mining just requires you to drag ores from your cargo to cans. Your bpo research, item production needs a lot of time and after you start the job you don't have to do much. All those things add a lot of boredom, yet they are what keeps the game's economy going and they are major isk generator. That's also why a lot of people prefer combat as more activity is invovled.
So the real limited resources is time in EVE. That's why it is better to run multiple accounts so you can capitalize more from it.
There are of course, several other factors invovled, which includes Time code to money conversion which makes running alt accounts less of a financial restrain and multiple accounts pays over its subscription cost several times over (Anyone wants to run 7 accounts if you actually have to take that out of your pocket book? ) Multiple accounts also migrate risk which is a big factor in EVE. It also enable more people to do pvp, knowing that you have a miner alt to backup you back financially. So in essense you can say the boring things in EVE is what makes the fun aspect of the game possible in the game which is the eve pvp (not just combat).
That said, at the same time, because this game has so much emphasiz about time, it is also what makes many things in EVE so valuable. A loss of several hundred million or billions isk in combat or investment really will hurt you when you know you have spent the last week's time getting that amount of isk. This is the main factor I think that attracts most current EVE player, that the things they do really matter and not just another instanced BG/dungeon in WoW.
Of course other MMO like WoW has the attraction of focusing more on activity and so power gamers occur, but since the player is already occupied with power lvling/grinding their main, which demands a lot of attention, they simply just can't/don't need to run a second account.
Personally I run only one account probably so that the character will feel more precious to me and not just another tool to make money, but that's just me. Of course, if one day CCP can somehow improve the whole time vs. activity factor, I think that'd be a nice change.
That's EVE and it is not for everyone.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2006.09.01 03:58:00 -
[64]
Any game is better if you're only allowed one character per player, because it encourages acctually playing with other people. Eve online has many great sides to it, but one of the biggest downsides of it is that it's specifically designed for multi account use, like mining for example, which is so slow paced that you can do it with half a dozen accounts at the same time, cynoalts and hauling alts, and market checking alts, and commandship alts and all that kind of stupid stuff taking away from player interaction in a major way...
In an alliance people partially don't even take you seriously unless you have alts to handle absoloutly everything by yourself and need help from time to time...
Even though nothing will ever change as long as there is money to be made and people are willing to pay for an advantage over others, any MMO would be better without systems that allow or even encourage alt usage.
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Minikrimi Extreme
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Posted - 2006.09.01 04:30:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Dano Sarum The difference is that its a limited resource and it shouldnt be capitolised by one person.
Lets say I make multiple accounts and farm every complex ingame, that way I've got a large percentage of faction loot in circulation, I dare say even the 100% supply on a few items, I would soley dictate something (worst then the T2 market). I dont believe thats fair on other players, nor does it promote any sence of community, It brings a dirty gritty element into the game which I think we'd all do better without.
I'm very sorry but It appears clear that you don't seem to understand the community aspect of EVE, the fact that its meant to be its own universe where people have to come together to accomplish bigger goals.
Odd, one of the things that drew me to this game initially was the idea of monopolies. Granted, that was a while ago, and I left for quite a while. But I seem to remember statements being made about "those who figure out how to do x will have a monopoly on that item" and so on.
Every pilot belongs to a corporation. Corporations generally care about three things: profit, how to get more profit, and how to prevent someone else from getting your profit. Teamwork comes into play because it can be far more profitable, if you have a good plan for the team to work. But...if you could control all means of production yourself between your accounts, how much more profit would you see? I see nothing more to multiple accounts than the extension of corporate greed into the personal realm. Not truly surprising considering the parameters set up by the devs in the beginning.
Yes, this game requires and fosters a strong community. But it is, in the end, a community of potential strategic allies and definite competitors. I've looked at some of the alliances since coming back, and the ones that appear most stable are those who require such a tremendous buy-in that nobody can afford to sabotage them. The cost would be too great, either in terms of pvp-enacted vengeance or just by losing literally tens of billions of ISK. The rest seem to fall apart rather quickly, if the forums speak true. That hardly seems the idyllic fantasy you wish to conjure up.
Of course, everyone plays Eve differently, but those who truly leave their marks are those who actually work against the aims you seem to have: those who control production and supply, those who establish dominance over others, those who, yes, work together but do so to exclude all others from a share of the profit. That is the essence of Eve. Look at the backstory. CONCORD was imposed from the outside by the Jovians after the other four Empires had wasted their strength fighting one another. Before that it was corporate warfare--just like we have in Eve today.
Fairness has rarely applied in Eve, at least when it comes to who gets a share of what. The only rule is that the players lucky, and smart enough to catch hints about future changes (try playing the test server) get the best goodies and decide how to distribute them. Some of them choose to share, others only share at a price, others don't share at all. That is Eve, and incidentally that is RL as well.
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Quineverre
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Posted - 2006.09.01 04:59:00 -
[66]
I used to play a game that had the one account per person rule. Enough situations happened in wich a husband and wife, two brothers or others in the same household played and both got banned for having multiple account.
Might come as a suprise to some people but more as one real life person playing in the same houshold all use the same IP adres. At the same time there is no way of seeing how many real life people are behind them.
We have three people playing, all with but one account. We have had others from our corp login from this house as we are a corp of real lif friends. Browsing the forums will show you we arent the only ones in this situation. The mentions of husband/wife, brothers, sisters and housemates are endless.
A one account per person rule can far as I know only be enforced by IP or mac adres and that would in both cases hurt everyone in this situation.
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Pottsey
Gallente Dissonance Corp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.09.01 10:26:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Pottsey on 01/09/2006 10:29:51 ôI would even go so far to say that people in these roleplaying corps might actually enjoy RP'ing with other people rather then with the same group of 3 guys with 10 accounts each.ö Except you have it all wrong. Its not 3 guys with 10 accounts each its more like 70 guys with 5 to 10 of them having 2 accounts thatÆs your average role-play corp and those 5 to 10 with more then1 account will not have all the alts in the same corp of 70guys they will be outside the corp. Your idea would hurt roleplaying. It would stop people having there stealth pilot and cargo pilot online at once and it would stop them talking in corp chat and other channels at the same time which adds to the atmosphere and community.
A lot of people like to run surprise events in there corp with 1 or 2 alts as NPCÆs to move the story or event along. Or they want to hide a hidden alt in corp to watch for problems and see how the event is going. Your system does not permit this and that hurts the community as these events cannot be run.
ôIn my mind if a few people cant roleplay multiple characters at once its a worthwhile sacrifice, as it will encourage more people to roleplay as they become more involved with their character.ö Lots of people like to play different styles of character based on there mood. Stopping them doing this will not make them more involved with there main character. Your idea will just mean people will enjoy less parts of the game. If someone likes being a pirate hunter and a pirate they cannot do that under your system. So less fun.
Passive shield tanking guide, click here. |
Pottsey
Gallente Dissonance Corp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.09.01 10:26:00 -
[68]
ôHowever needless to say you seem to have a very big ego or seem to have a great impression of yourself. Whilst I've only been with the community about a year or so I can't really say I've ever heard of you personally. Now maybe I'm wrong and you're really some massively important magnificant person but I've never heard of you and there are plenty of others who I have and I can see contributed to the community.ö You just like insulating people donÆt you? I never once said I was massively important magnificent person ,I am not. Most of the valid points people have bought up you just ignored and instead insulated them, then you wonder why there is so much spam in the thread. Take my posts you ignore most of the points in my first few posts and say they are not valid as I donÆt know anything about the community. I say look at my history as proof I know the community and you call me troll, big ego and various other things because I was backing I know the community so my points are not invlaid.
It itÆs a no win situation with you. Either you say I donÆt know the community so my points are invalid or I know the community so I am a troll with a ego whoÆs points are still invalid. So what am I ment to do?
ôI dont see how you think this concept will kill off RP in corps, from what you've said you're telling me that lots of people there are the same people roleplaying different characters in the same corps? Alternate characters are still abled to be played at seperate times if you want to do multiple things, every char you play doesnt have to be a solopwnmobile Titan pilot you know.ö ThatÆs my point you want or I should say more the rules you want will make every character a solopwnmobile that does everything. As you donÆt want people to have multiple active characters learning skills at the same time so you have to do everything on 1 character. Most People with two accounts or more will not train up two different styles of characters if they are limited to 1 account they will just focus all there training on 1 character. If you cannot mine and do combat at once why train up two characters to do that when you can make 1 jack of all trades that does both? ThatÆs how most people will think.
Your rule kills off all the people like me that role-play or even those that donÆt role-play but have different styles of character. If someone wants a pacifist researcher, a dumb miner and a warrior and a scout they cannot do that under your rules. Instead they will make 1 character that does all 4 jobs. ThatÆs bad for the community and bad for variety
Not everyone role-plays but they do make different style of characters in different corps and there own corp.
Back to roleplay corps and allianceÆs they heavily use multiple alternate characters online at once. Same for none roleplay corps. A lot of corps use alternate characters for corp events, roleplay corps more so as they also use alternate characters for other things. Some corp events are impossible to run when you cannot have more then 1 character online at the same time. Same for roleplay events you often need characters.
Passive shield tanking guide, click here. |
Cletus Graeme
Caldari Mordu's Elite
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Posted - 2006.09.01 14:20:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Cletus Graeme on 01/09/2006 14:20:18
I'd say allowing people to have more than one account is ok because if they are prepared to PAY to be able to have more than one char then that's a fair exchange.
However, I think having 2 *free* alts that you can jump into at anytime to escape from pvp or use for spying/scouting is silly. If people want the advantages of having several chars in the EVE universe then they should have to pay for them imo.
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Oosel
Nightmare Holdings
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Posted - 2006.09.01 14:27:00 -
[70]
whilst i would love to say yes to the op and always thought it would have been the way it should be just think of of the capital ship pilots who dont join alliances and enjoy playing solo....they would be screwed as you couldnt have a cyno alt to help you jump and theres no way on this earth im gonna ask another player to open up a cyno for me its just asking to be griefed
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Galk
Gallente Autumn Tactics
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Posted - 2006.09.01 14:41:00 -
[71]
Even though i am a multiple account user.
I would agree, the game would be a whole lot better for it.
A prime example id use is alt spies.
The problem at the minute is... where's the suprise... you know exactly when and where...
Imagine for a moment if the guy doing the spying in the corp opposite actualy had to be in that corp and that corp alone....
Not doing as he does with a alt account character, then firing it up on the front lines at the same time....
Id give my other accounts up for such a utopia of players actualy having to do together what ccp and ouver preach to us.
In other words 90% of what they do say about the teamwork ethic can be negated by just having 2 accounts or more as everybody knows.
Pretty much why i turn bitter when reading ouvers various interviews... it's no different than the ignorance over gtc's...
Words are meaningless when it comes to $$$$ ______ Long ago one gorgeous night, we let the stars grow free. We let Zhuge do that once, he came back carrying a traffic cone, a forsale sign and three empty bottles of dutch lager. He also lost his Zimmer Frame... - Imaran
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thatguyinpc
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Posted - 2006.09.02 05:35:00 -
[72]
Hi gang,
To the OP, If you only wanted to hear positive feed back on why you have a great idea then stop reading now. ________________________________________________________
For this topic to have any serious debate you have to discuss how the limiting would be achieved, and once achieved how it would be policed.
If weÆre just going to use the magic wand, IÆd much rather have a huge unsinkable sailboat that never runs out of supplies to go along with my magic wallet that never runs out of money, along with the magic potion (that never runs out) that cures all illness and keeps you young as long as you want.
Now, find a way for me and my wife to keep playing together, along with my brother who lives elsewhere, while I pay for it all. If you can find a reasonable tamper proof way to allow this, yet restrict others who want to have multiple accounts just for themselves then IÆd like to hear it.
Guy
PS In case you couldn't read between the lines I would consider an attempt to limit players accouts a bad thing because it would erode my ability to play with family members.
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Siri Blue
Gallente Eve University
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Posted - 2006.09.02 06:15:00 -
[73]
Limiting the number of characters per account to ONE would solve a lot of the alt/spy/farmer issues as people had actually to pay for more characters...
And the number of alt accounts would be reduced by the number of alt breeders/sellers as well...
Would be pretty tough to implemtn this now though as many people have skillpoints on multiple characters on one account by now...limiting the number of chars to TWO might be an acceptable solution for the meantime...but thats about all that can be done atm I'd guess...
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.02 06:38:00 -
[74]
I'd think CCP would have a slight legal problem if they tried to reduce the number of accounts people could have to 1.
With their Power of 2 thingy, I would consider it false advertising/outright fraud.
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Miss Overlord
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2006.09.02 06:50:00 -
[75]
well its been discussed im al for it as long as players can somehow get skill points onto one toon perhaps new accounts should be limited to 2 who knows.
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Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari Worms Corp
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Posted - 2006.09.02 13:28:00 -
[76]
it is impossible to have one client per location. what about families or friends who play from the same home? you going to tell them they have to buy seperate IPs from their ISP for each computer rather then use a router.
so its impossible and besides dualboxing causes minimal harm.
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Usotsuki
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Posted - 2006.09.02 14:09:00 -
[77]
Personally i think it would be awesome if you could play all three characters on your account at the same time (train skills up at the same time too).... unfortunately that would throw the game balance completely out of whack.
sigh, still waiting for a good MMORTS....
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var'ulfur
Caldari blackwater
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Posted - 2006.09.02 15:04:00 -
[78]
PLEASE let this thread die it needed death. i realy did read most of the posts here. never one time did it say WHY IT WOULD BE BETTER that people could only have one account per isp/household. they mostly say isk farming and micro mining would be less. and the game would just be better.
Well i have 3 accounts i pay r/l dollars for them. i mine build and do fight if pushed. Now i mine and haule with my other accounts,i dont isk farm all my isk gose to build things i sell in game. roids respawn so im not hurting anyone eles mining. i dont sell my accounts or isk on ebay,nore do i bully or force anyone to do my bidding.And if you ask around where i call home i help many with isk ships goods if they need it.
Now somone tell me how im hurting thier game play and eve in anyway, i give eve online 45.00 us per month which helps all of us keep the game going. im sorry if some people dont have a computer or extra r/l cash to get another account. but i work very hard and this is my place to leave the real world behind for a time tell me how what i do hurts you in any way?????
talk is cheap the cost of action is enormus
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Kazzo Raye
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Posted - 2006.09.02 19:27:00 -
[79]
1) OP has a valid discussion point, but.... 2) OP sabotaged his own thread by insulting his readers at the outset (e.g. "... I know that's a lot to expect from people") 3) OP resorted to personal attacks as the counterpoint to some who disagreed with his thesis
So, good concept, poor forum execution. But, to answer the question: It would probably have a positive impact on the community, although that community would be smaller. There are players who (for various reasons) prefer mostly solo play. Many of these players would likely walk away from Eve.
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