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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |

Dustpuppy
Rox Inc
21
|
Posted - 2014.11.25 18:23:21 -
[1] - Quote
KeeperRus wrote:I wonder how exactly this will change anything. CCP can not detect the software, so how will CCP know if it's being used? Exactly.
Easy.
Multiple accounts, multtiple clients, all logged in from the same machine / IP address, all payed with plex, using the same fitting, following the same commands without delays, sitting in the same system and in a lot of cases running more than 2-3 clients at the same time.
It's like spotting a fish swarm within an area where only individual/single fish float around.
|

Dustpuppy
Rox Inc
22
|
Posted - 2014.11.25 18:51:18 -
[2] - Quote
Radkiel wrote:Gina Taroen wrote:lol wonder how many people will quit because of this :D I just unsubbed all of my accounts, I'll play until the 1st then find another game.  I fail to see how multiboxing affects anyone around me.
Well let say it in a nice way: I don't believe you when you say "I fail to see..."
Here is s nice video of an isboxer demonstrating ratting with 14 clients at the same time on a single computer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlm4XrR0VvU
And look at the comments:
1) "once your rolling its about 80-100m per account per hourn++" -> 1.4 billion/hour 2) " I've been mining using IS Boxer for over a year [...]I do about 6b ISK a day mining in Null."
I don't believe you when you say "I pay for my accounts", I'd rather say you (just like the two quoted from YT) use isboxer to generate a lot of income which is used for buying plexes and what I also suspect to use the additional income for rmt.
I won't miss these kind of players for a single second. |

Dustpuppy
Rox Inc
23
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 09:13:01 -
[3] - Quote
Hulky Boy wrote:Yes I'm cut, people need to have a cry because they suck and need to ruin this game for people that have actually made it over the last 10 years. If you don't like people using is-boxer don't go into systems where there are 30 people with similar names. [...]If you think its unfair that some people pay 30 billion ISK a month to plex their accounts to have this privilege well you also suck.
Please cry louder. I don't understand the part where you accuse the regular players ruining the (your?) game with this change.
As someone who owns 2 active accounts (not 12, 14, 20 or even more) I appreciate that people like you finally have to become normal again. \o/
You shouldn't have the legal possibility to use a third party tool which enables you to greatly increases your income ( I posted a comment from YT where ISboxers state to get 1.4 billion /hour to 6 billion/day). Telling me "everyone can do it" (aka cheat) doesn't change anything. Not I am ruining the game, people like you ruin the game.
I am paying for my accounts because I cannot afford spending so much time on earning isk/month and I am way below 1.4 billion isk/hour (more in the region of 20-60 million/hour).
All you do with ISboxer is earn enough isk to keep the accounts active with plex bought from the market. You don't pay cash, you only consume. Kicking people like you doesn't hurt the game. Plex will become chaeper again. Prices are already dropping (1 billion -> under 875k) and maybe at some point a regular player like me is able to purchase a plex on the market again. I plan to do this, not to pay for one ac but to use dual training.
So long and if you now cancel all your accounts:
1) Please give me your stuff 2) Go to another game and isbox there, I hope you like it (I recommend WOW) |

Dustpuppy
Rox Inc
23
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 09:40:45 -
[4] - Quote
Chalithra Lathar wrote:Dustpuppy wrote:All you do with ISboxer is earn enough isk to keep the accounts active with plex bought from the market. You don't pay cash, you only consume. WRONG Players who use PLEX simply use in-game currency in exchange for someone else to pay their subscription. Why this escapes some people is beyond me.
Well I will be glad to pay 350 mio isk to fund e.g. an additional account or to do dual training on a single account so I will buy it instead of you (or someone else). The amount of plex consumed won't change, only the price in isk paid for it on the market will change.
Removing these isboxer guys just will reduce the income faucet which can be used to keep the plex price on this high level, that's all. It will make regular players who do't want to run 10-20 clients at the same time more competitive.
And the wind of change is already blowing. Plex price around 875k on the market is a clear sign :)
If you don't like it, i can recommend to sing the song "This is the end" (Doors) while unsubscribing. \o/ |

Dustpuppy
Rox Inc
23
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 10:03:39 -
[5] - Quote
Side question:
Will this change have an impact on npc kills in null? There are systems which constantly have >5000 nc kills in 24hours, day in day out, every day, every week.
I strongly doubt someone can organize a corp with real players to focus on this for a longer time without getting bored. I assume these are corps run by few real players running multiple ratting clients for plexing and renting the space.
If my assumption is true then this change also might have some positive impact on the renting plague in the blue donut  |

Dustpuppy
Rox Inc
23
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 12:55:08 -
[6] - Quote
James Baboli wrote: For myself, I am pointing out that proper detection of such bad actors is hard without a fairly high false positive rate.
That's incorrect.
The Eula states you are not allowed any mechanism which replicates the input from a single source (keyboard, mouse,..) to multiple clients.
Identifying such a behavior is the simplest task. You only need to identify clients which run on the same computer at a given time and/or use the same external IP address and compare the keys/mouse clicks. If you have two clients showing the same characteristics ( e.g. on both clients with the identical entries "F1 F4 F2 mouse left click, mouse right click, T, ..." in the log file) you have found someone using a replicator. I don't know how many keyboard/mouse clicks would make this method almost 100% bullet proof, but I doubt you require more than 100 entries for such a finger print.
Additionally I can raise the question: who tells you that CCP hasn't already collected statistics about the usage of these replicator programs in the past weeks and they already know exactly who is considered to be suspicious? No one has been hiding the program so far, it was legal (or grey zone) making a data collection easy. |

Dustpuppy
Rox Inc
23
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 14:46:01 -
[7] - Quote
Digger Nolm wrote:Keep in mind that jan 1 2015 I will cancel 5 accounts as I will not be able to grind enough isk to run those accounts with the new ban on key broadcasting. That's atleast $100 US less you wont get from me. 
Something is wrong in your comment. If you do "grinding for isk" then you don't pay 100 USD/month, you play for free.
It is someone else who pays the 100 USD and this person is not connected to you. Without connection there is no link and no influence between your actions and his actions.
If you cancel your accounts he will still buy plex from CCP. He only might get less isk for the plex when he sells them on the market, that's all.
So as an outcome CCP doesn't loose any money, they only loose a player relying on a third party tool to generate enough isk to play for free.
CCP wins in the end because a game where people have to play by fair means and don't get advantages by piling up semi botted accounts to play for free is much more attractive.
So congrats for the tears and have a nice new year. I hope you find another game where you can use your tool so you don't waste the only money you really spend: the annual costs for isboxer o/ |

Dustpuppy
Rox Inc
23
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 15:10:50 -
[8] - Quote
double post, clicked the wrong button :( |

Dustpuppy
Rox Inc
23
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 15:12:09 -
[9] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote: Do you like, not understand the most basic principles of economics or something?
Sure I do, and the statement "I pay 100 USD/month" is wrong if I don't pay 100 USD/month but soemone else does. The true statement of this guy would have been: I play long enough to earn x billion isk/month which I exchange for plex - this is called free to play.
So where am I wrong in my assumptions?
Does this guy now cancel his accounts, identifies the real person who really paid the 100 bucks to CCP and the shoot him? If not, how should his reaction to cancel his accounts have any influence on this unknown buyer of plex?
Do you believe just because an unknown amount of people grinding isk stops grinding for isk has any influence on how many plexes are purchased with real money from CCP? If you believe this please tell me how this is possible. |

Dustpuppy
Rox Inc
24
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 15:19:33 -
[10] - Quote
Black Ambulance wrote:
You are so bad in economics that my eyes bleeding reading your dumb statement
Well then enlighten me with your knowledge. 
Let me repeat my statements:
The one who says "CCP looses 100 USD/month because I cancel my 5 accounts" is wrong as long as he doesn't pay CCP 100 bucks/month.
His statement would be correct if he says: I play for free by grinding isk I use to purchase game time from the market.
To have an influence on the market his decision to cancel the accounts can only have an influence on CCP if his decision leads to less plex purchased from CCP.
So prove me that by reducing the people willing to pay high prices leads to less plex offered on the market. |
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Dustpuppy
Rox Inc
27
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 15:28:35 -
[11] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
This is a joke, right? A troll? This can't be real life. Please tell me there's a hidden camera here somewhere.
No, I am asking questions, simple questions. Show me the correlation between isboxing guys running their accounts with plexes payed with isk and the amount of plexes purchased from CCP.
If it's so obvious, so easy to explain - why are you speechless?
|

Dustpuppy
Rox Inc
27
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 15:35:16 -
[12] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:1) it might happen that less people buy PLEX due to isbot nerf.
2) Prices will most likely drop. If they drop too low because of reduced demand, people might stop selling them in order to acquire ingame money, because they are getting less ISK for the buck.
OR
3) prices wont drop all too low because legit players start plexing accounts again, who couldnt afford inflated PLEX prices anymore -> sellers receive less ISK for their PLEX and CCP wont notice anything at all.
or 4) people willing to buy plexes to have additional isk purchase more plexes from CCP to compensate the reduced amount of isk when selling them on the market.
What won't happen is that plexes won't be sold any longer because there will always be someone who needs short term isk for a shiny bunch of ingame pixels.
On the ingame market beginning with next year we will see less people being able to pay high prices. The price for plex will go down until a point were the regular players can jump in and afford a plex without tools for income increase. At this point the plex price will stop |

Dustpuppy
Rox Inc
28
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 15:45:53 -
[13] - Quote
This figure doesn't apply here. If you would have read some more info you would know that the amount of plexes purchased from CCP didn't change much in the past months and was pretty independent from the amount of isk people got on the ingame market.
Removing some isbotters won't change anything again. The supply (which is the limiting factor here) will stay the same, only the price will go down until the lost consumers (willing to pay high prices) are replaced by regular people.
Your figure only works on a market which is saturated which is not the case in EVE. |

Dustpuppy
Rox Inc
28
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 15:57:35 -
[14] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote: The graph is 100% accurate. I suggest you pick up an economics 101 textbook and read the first few pages of the first chapter.
Don't use a book, use your brain. your figure doesn't take a simple detail into account: the amount of people willing to buy a plex doesn't change, the demand stays the same. The only change is the amount of isk which can be spent to buy the plex.
Your figure doesn't apply, sorry.
|

Dustpuppy
Rox Inc
30
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 12:00:40 -
[15] - Quote
Irya Boone wrote:2014 the year of the tears
Tears of FW farmers ( with the dps check on NPC in plexes) :) Tears of insta jumper all over the map in 2 minutes :) Tears of i can control 15 accounts with one mouse and one keyboard..
I'm telling you the year of Tears
if i've forgotten some TEARS please remind me :)
I have an additional wish: Remove the automatic email to the SOV owner in case a POS is placed in the system. This would force the owners to actively search for intruder which is impossible for the "alliances" owning big renting spaces and last but not least brek the neck of this crap renting mechanism.
Then we also would have blue doughnut tears :) |

Dustpuppy
Rox Inc
31
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 13:21:24 -
[16] - Quote
Ger Atol wrote: understands my point will see there is only one "right thing to do"
Do the right thing CCP
Refund people whose real life money you have taken before this change, and who are now out of pocket for nothing.
Do the real life right thing.
I am pretty sure they can add some isk to your account, the isk you spent on the market purchasing plex. If you try to tell me you paid real money in the past (you know? real money means you open your real bank account and push an given amount in your currency to the account of CCP) then I don't believe you.
I don't believe that someone who spent 100 or more USD real money per month just to play a game suddenly has problems when he lost some bucks. If you spent some billions of isk to purchase plexes you should receive isk back after the account is inactivated.
o/ |

Dustpuppy
Rox Inc
42
|
Posted - 2014.12.15 11:16:39 -
[17] - Quote
JGar Rooflestein wrote:Going to go out and say this. I own 7 accounts. They are not all in the same space but infact spread out in different regions. They mine. I control the all via Innerspace (isoboxers form broadcasting commands to multiple clients). Now with Innerspace being banned how will I be caught.
Still can't believe how silly people are.
1) Search for clients running on the same IP. 2) Check how synchronized commands are given by the clients.
If all the ships react the same way within a given time frame -> ban.
It's very easy to spot such a behavior if the ships are in the same system, but programs are not limited to a visual feedback like a player. I spotted an is multicast boxer just two days ago in Jita. A fleet of 15 Herons warped to a jump gate and away from it like a fish swarm. Perfect synchronization, no time delay. No human can do this, at least not for a longer period. You would go crazy after some jumps.
After seeing this I could only think and thank again that this will be a ban in near future.
o/
|

Dustpuppy
Rox Inc
42
|
Posted - 2014.12.15 11:31:03 -
[18] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:
I see you called someone out for strawmanning, and here I see you doing the same thing. Here are some facts that require no conjecture: [list]
CCP has known about ISBoxer for a long time (years).
CCP has also been keenly aware that the use of ISBoxer lends itself to the creation and long term maintenance of multiple accounts. This has resulted in dollars for CCP, revenue from subscriptions of these accounts.
[...]
If revenue from subscriptions is secondary to the spirit of the game, as Falcon says on Reddit, then CCP should also be gracious enough to refund players who have payed for subscriptions in advance
Your statement lacks one important point. If someone wants money back he/she must prove that he/she actually paid real money for the game.
If you want a refund with real money you must provide you actually paid for it. And honestly, I really doubt there are lots of people out there willing to pay 100-200 USD/month just to play a game.
In reality you have used multi boxing to earn as much isk as possible to buy plex within the game and keep your accounts running.
And yes, this is an advantage over people playing the regular style because the most rewarding ways to earn isk is bound to groups (Incursions, C6 anom ratting). Single player replacing the requirement for a group by using a multiplexing program shouldn't be allowed and aren't any longer.
No matter how many likes you got with your posts, feel free to adapt or search for another game. At least from my end you won't be missed.
o/ |

Dustpuppy
Rox Inc
43
|
Posted - 2014.12.15 12:47:08 -
[19] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Wrong. Consumption of PLEX is as good, if not a slightly better income stream for CCP. If the amount of PLEX consumed drops too much, so will the price, and so less people will be willing to pay for them with cash. Unless every multiboxed character lost is replaced with a new account, then obviously the consumption of PLEX will decrease.
That said, most multiboxers won;t be quitting as they can still multibox in other valid ways, so it's irrelevant. It certainly sounds like you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about though.
I am willing to wait and see if you are right, but I am pretty sure you are wrong. Last year on a meeting CCP showed a slide with the plex price vs. plex consumption rate. This value of consumed plexes was pretty stable, plex consumption was independent of the market price.
I am pretty sure this behavior won't change just because some people stop playing with 10-20 accounts at the same time. People will still buy plex at the same rate from CCP, some will consume them, others buy them from CCP. Hell, maybe the amount of purchased plexes will increase because people trying to fund a shiny bling bling ship get less isk when selling the plex and require some more to achieve their goal.
So before saying "these botters were healthy for the game and CCPs income" or saying I have no clue about marketing, please wait until January. I doubt hell will break loose and everyone is leaving the game.
On the other side I welcome the change. As soon as you allow automatizing, boting etc. a game made for people becomes a game for the one who owns the best program to run the game and looses attraction. |

Dustpuppy
Rox Inc
43
|
Posted - 2014.12.15 13:43:45 -
[20] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Of course it will. People who are willing to spend $15 to get 900m isk aren't necessarily going to spend the same amount of cash for half that in isk.
Is this statement based on an assumption or based on facts?
Concerning botting: please explain to me how a client which is using the identical input of another one is not a bot? Does it have it's own brain and individual reaction scheme or does it just follow the orders without thinking?
You might want to splice hairs here but as long as more than one ship reacts in an identical way (because of multiplexing the input to more than one client) it is a bot. Doesn't matter if in the end a person sits ans steers 20 ships with a single mouse click or if the remaining brain also is substituted by another program.
Consider yourself lucky because CCP accepted this kind of game style a grey zone but now also decided to think in the same way: if one player presses one button and ten ship do the same then nine of them are bots and are no longer legal.
Meet you in 2015, maybe, and maybe with less chars. o/ If you decide to leave and still are frustrated for not being refunded, contact me. I will take all your stuff :)
And if CCP wants to make me even more happy - ban the round robin feature of the third party software. Let the is multiboxer click around just like the regular ones and another resort of resistance for this plague will fall. |
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Dustpuppy
Rox Inc
57
|
Posted - 2014.12.27 09:10:45 -
[21] - Quote
After reading x pages i still don't unterstand why isboxer guys try to protect round robbin From being banned. This function gives you an advantage over a player who has to alt+tab through The clients and The function interacts with The Eve world. Not allowed, Done . O/ |

Dustpuppy
Rox Inc
57
|
Posted - 2014.12.27 10:22:23 -
[22] - Quote
Wait for Jan 1st to See if you are right and round robbin is not considerred AS illegal advantage. I heard so many Boxers want to use it to get around The other restrictions that i am sure it will be looked at again. Pressing 10x F1 and leaving the distribution of The key presses to a third Party software is faster and more effizient than doing it manually.
You are just operating in a grey zone hoping that The rules won't be looked at again if the first hit against this plague doesn't eleminate it. |

Dustpuppy
Rox Inc
57
|
Posted - 2014.12.27 10:53:23 -
[23] - Quote
Wait for some more days. If these changes don't result in the expected improvements it will be looked at again. And then it's only about how to Interpret the words "Software interacting with the Eve world giving you advantages over regular players" .
press 10x F1 and leave the distribution to isboxer, do it manually, measure what is More efficient. Then read my last sentence agasin and think about your statement again...
Time will show who is right. some months ago only few would have considerred that CCP would change their mind about isboxer at all and look where we are now. I can wait o/ |

Dustpuppy
Rox Inc
57
|
Posted - 2014.12.27 11:20:03 -
[24] - Quote
@nolak
Just to consider ... There is no statement out about round robin except one response of a GM. CCP only mentions to read the rules and everything else is on your own risk. This leaves them any options for interpreting the rules in the future. And why do you trust the words of a GM now while stating "they lied in the Papst, what next?" in your sig?
Bzw. I know who rules the game. It's CCP. You are only hoping that the ban hammer doesn't hit you. |

Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
57
|
Posted - 2015.01.19 16:35:25 -
[25] - Quote
KC Kamikaze wrote: ISBoxers most gameplay affecting feature is and has always been VideoFX not broadcasting.
If this would be the case the plex price wouldn't have dropped from 1 billion to 800 million after the announcement of the multicast ban and stay on this level since the change.
Why cancel subscription on plexed accounts if the main feature of something is not touched by a change?
|

Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
83
|
Posted - 2015.03.03 13:37:36 -
[26] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:I However, by any definition of the word "bot", ISBoxer does not fall into it, ......
Oh boy, you have too much time for this. is the writer of ISboxer your personal boyfriend and you share the bed together?
Get over it and accept the reality. 
|

Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
83
|
Posted - 2015.03.04 10:37:09 -
[27] - Quote
kraken11 jensen wrote: Something is so wrong if he got banned, so wrong. He play's legit in my eyes.
(idk what to more to say)
What more to say? Just check out the linked video about the incursion and then tell me how the program he used there didn't help him to get an advantage over other players which e.g, multibox by using multiple monitors or manually alt-tab through the clients. Just look at the speed he is able to activate/deactivate modules, engage targets etc - no one can do this manually without such a program.
If he really paid for all his 20 accounts with real money then he should visit a doctor because he might be ill or he is really rich. Exchanging isk on the market for in game trading cards/plex doesn't count as paying because he didn't spend real money on it. He just exchanges something he gets for playing the game (isk from multiboxing) for something to keep the accounts active (plex). |

Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
83
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 09:57:34 -
[28] - Quote
Charadrass wrote:you know that he is not faster than a regular fleet, even slower. so where is an Advantage?
Don't try to compare the possibilities of a single player using a third party helper program with a fleet operated by multiple real people. Compare it with the possibilities of a player running the same amount of clients on his machine but without this third party program. Then you will see (what I doubt because you don't like the outcome) that the program gives an advantage.
|

Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
83
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 12:10:36 -
[29] - Quote
208 pages and I still have no clue why some people complain about a change which happened 4.5 months ago.
If the change had no influence on the style of playing EVE (which is what they all pretend), why do you care so much about it?
|

Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
83
|
Posted - 2015.04.15 11:44:19 -
[30] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote: 1) Because it was a needless change that hurt the game's health and 2) Because people are getting banned for following the new interpretation of the EULA.
Forgive me but I don't understand this or your statements are simply speaking wrong. Again: A change which has no consequences on the way people play cannot have any influence on the player population or game's health. So either your statement about the main usage of ISboxer is wrong and the main usage was input broadcasting or the change simply had no effect on the players base.
Your first statement by the way is not logical and therefor wrong. Only if input broadcasting was important the change had an influence and those players relying on it left the game (see above). And I (just like many others) am absolutely convinced that the change wasn't needless and/or hurt the game but helped it. It wasn't loosing players but getting rid of people playing in a style which hurt the game.
Just like someone said: I don't have problems to loose against a fleet with 10 players. I hate to loose against a single player steering ten ships.
Last comment: if your correlation between health of the game and input broadcasting would be right then EVE would be broken/dead. 4.5 months are enough time to see what consequences a change has, and EVE is still alive.
Concerning 2) Just because you found one who was banned by accident there is no reason to turn around. No matter what you do, no matter what is changed, you will always someone who feels he was or is treated in a wrong way. And there is always someone who doesn't like the change and who is using the first guy as example why the whole thing was a bad idea.
Now instead of fighting a lost war for this guy you could either settle down and continue playing or just search for another game. Why not WOW? i heard it also supports ISBoxer. |
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Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
94
|
Posted - 2015.05.01 13:23:36 -
[31] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:ISBoxers had nearly no effect on the game then, all they did were make some people sad pandas when they though someone was making more isk than them. .
The change had and has one positive aspect. It keeps you busy and I can collect your tears in this thread now for over 4 months. 
|

Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
96
|
Posted - 2015.05.02 17:42:14 -
[32] - Quote
Your answer makes no sense. Noone who isn't affected by a game change spends so many months on complaining and discussing it in a forum. Either you don't say the truth, hide something or you have some more or less serious other problems with this game. Maybe you just should take a big breath, relax and shut down the computer for a while until you have a different point of view about this topic here.
On the other side feel free to continue this lost battle. Maybe at some point you become so obsessed with it that you end like Jack Nicholson in the pledge. |

Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
99
|
Posted - 2015.05.04 12:19:35 -
[33] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: Indeed though, I will continue this "lost battle" as you call it, and I'll continue pushing for the rights of all players to play within the rules without fear of being banned due to bad methods of detection being used or insanely blurry policies. You're welcome by the way.
Edit: By the way, been a while since I've seen the pledge, but I'm sure everyone thought he was crazy when in actual fact he was right all along. So thanks for your support.
Let's start with the pledge because it's really too long since you have seen it, and this time you should watch it until the end. I's not about the fact that he was right when searching for the murderer but the end of the movie where he became so obsessed with something that it drove him mad.
This brings up point 1 and the first part of your last answer. I am still unclear about your intentions. The change didn't affect you according to your statement so there is no direct reason for this here. It seems that the change has caused some other damage in you. At least for me it's totally strange to keep a discussion alive for over 4 months just because something in the future might happen which might have some negative consequences in a game I am playing. Maybe you really should step back from the computer for a while and realize that this here is only a game and not a war.
Beside this: thx for the invitation to join your "fight", but I have better things to do than to complain about the past. |
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