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Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 176	Posted - 2014.11.29 04:34:49 - [1] - Quote Amarr cruisers are gimped. My Crucifier has the same amount of mid-slots as my Arbitrator. My Executioner has the same amount of mid-slots as my Omen or my Maller. Amarr is the only race with this deficiency. Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
Persifonne Monkey Demons Of Narnia 38	Posted - 2014.11.29 05:04:45 - [2] - Quote Armor tank baddie. Also arbitrtor is a badass cruiser. 1 med neut rest small neuts td scram big buffer and it can destroy anything frig-bs. Its sick. You need meds. Yarrrrbitrator best amarr cruiser and we demand a navy issue yarbi. L2cruise. YOLO!
Persifonne Monkey Demons Of Narnia 38	Posted - 2014.11.29 05:05:57 - [3] - Quote But yeah wtf you need mids for? Prop, point, web and a utility one. Wtf you need more mids for ever???
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 176	Posted - 2014.11.29 05:19:59 - [4] - Quote The Arbitrator is a badass cruiser yet the Crucifier is actually better than the Arbitrator at their intended role (weapon disruption). Ok so what does all of your BS post have to do with the fact that Amarr cruisers are gimped ? We don't need mid slots you say ? Well explain why the Thorax, Vexor, Rupture and Stabber, all arguably armor tanking ships, have 4 mid slots, while the Omen and Maller are sitting ducks with 3 mid slots. Another problem that doesn't help, is the laser turret capacitor use bonus. The thorax, for instance, not only has 4 midslots, but a tracking bonus on top of all that, while the Omen is stuck with 3 mid slots and crapacitor... ahem, I mean a capacitor bonus for its lasers. Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
Odithia Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 71	Posted - 2014.11.29 11:05:01 - [5] - Quote Biggest problem I see with amarr cruisers is that the Maller and Omen are too much alike. I don't like the capacitor gun bonus on the omen and would rather have it get a bigger capacitor and this bonus replaced with something cooler. Or maybe have one turned into a drone boat like the Dragoon or Prophecy, but there is already the Arbitrator that isn't really a combat ship and not really an Ewar ship. Amarr lineup need to be completely rewamped imo.
Odithia Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 71	Posted - 2014.11.29 11:09:04 - [6] - Quote Odithia wrote: Biggest problem I see with amarr cruisers is that the Maller and Omen are too much alike. I don't like the capacitor gun bonus on the omen and would rather have it get a bigger capacitor and this bonus replaced with something cooler. Or maybe have one turned into a drone boat like the Dragoon or Prophecy, but there is already the Arbitrator that isn't really a combat ship and not really an Ewar ship. Amarr lineup need to be completely rewamped imo. Ares Desideratus wrote: Another problem that doesn't help, is the laser turret capacitor use bonus. The thorax, for instance, not only has 4 midslots, but a tracking bonus on top of all that, while the Omen is stuck with 3 mid slots and crapacitor... ahem, I mean a capacitor bonus for its lasers. That's because medium Beams are Straight up better than Railguns and need to be balanced with crazy cap drain and adequate ship bonus so you don't break the game by having double bonussed guns. Wait...
Kalihira Ultramar Independent Contracting 26	Posted - 2014.11.29 12:53:40 - [7] - Quote There is nothing wrong with the amarr cruisers. The only think that should be changed is upping the damage modifier on med pulses abit (and maybe tone done scorch M in the process to keep it balanced). The hulls themselves are pretty much fine
Kosetzu S1lver Flame 130	Posted - 2014.11.29 13:00:00 - [8] - Quote So what you're saying is: Nerf diversity! Make all ships the same! Why doesn't all ships have the same slot layout! Hate to tell you but that is what is good about the game. Not everything needs to have the same things.
Odithia Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 71	Posted - 2014.11.29 13:17:42 - [9] - Quote Kosetzu wrote: So what you're saying is: Nerf diversity! Make all ships the same! Why doesn't all ships have the same slot layout! Hate to tell you but that is what is good about the game. Not everything needs to have the same things. Omen and Maller have the same slot layout and use the same weapon system. Can't nerf diversity any more.
Kalihira Ultramar Independent Contracting 26	Posted - 2014.11.29 13:36:15 - [10] - Quote Odithia wrote: Kosetzu wrote: So what you're saying is: Nerf diversity! Make all ships the same! Why doesn't all ships have the same slot layout! Hate to tell you but that is what is good about the game. Not everything needs to have the same things. Omen and Maller have the same slot layout and use the same weapon system. Can't nerf diversity any more. Yeah that totally makes them the same ship... Why this uninformed ranting? did you ever fly the amarr cruisers to begin with? The minmatar ones are in far worse shape tbh.
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 176	Posted - 2014.11.29 13:36:17 - [11] - Quote And the Thorax, Vexor, Rupture and Stabber all have 4 mid slots and are all arguably armor tanking ships. the Caldari versions all have 5 mid slots. Now I wouldn't mind if Amarr ships actually had ways to work around this deficiency, but it seems to be that all the aforementioned cruisers simply out-class the Amarr versions. Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 176	Posted - 2014.11.29 13:38:17 - [12] - Quote Kahlira, his point is right. There's barely any difference between Omen and Maller; one is slower and tankier; other than that they are literally exactly the same. Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
Syrias Bizniz Krautfleet 377	Posted - 2014.11.29 13:51:58 - [13] - Quote Have you actually, like in going into PvP in a 1v1 Cruiser duel or smilar, have you actually flown Amarr Cruisers? If yes, why do you think they are in a bad shape? I could understand that, if the Amarr Cruisers had 2 Mid-Slots, they'd be horrible. But they have 3, or in the case of the Arbitrator, 4 midslots. Which is what you want. More mids would mean less lows. Do you want less Lowslots on the Amarr Cruisers? I don't think so. I can tell you that the Omen is currently one of the top-notch cruisers. I can tell you that the Arbitrator has been and still is a good cruiser. I can tell you that the only other Cruisers that can compare to the Omen are the Thorax and the Vexor, and this is not because of their midslots, but because of the sheer DPS they can potentially mount on such a cheap cruiser hull. I'd actually LOVE the Thorax to have another Lowslot. This would very likely put it in a better Place than the Omen is right now. Also, with your argument of 'Maller is like Omen, same thing, one's a bit tankier, one's a bit faster' Well, Thorax and Vexor are the same, too. One's a bit more Hybrid DPS, one's a bit more Drone DPS. The Rupture and the Stabber are the same, too. One sucks and is fast, the other sucks and is slow. The only real diversity in T1 Cruiser hulls can be seen at the Caldari, because they're a mixed weapons race. TL;DR Omen is cool, touch it and i take a NOmen and shove it up your rear.
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 176	Posted - 2014.11.29 13:53:34 - [14] - Quote I mean I am not saying to "nerf diversity" that is a complete over-simplification of what's going on There is nothing wrong with diversity but I don't think this ship class is working as it should be. The amount of utility that you gain with a 4th mid slot is invaluable compared to the extra low slot that the Omen and Maller get Do you really think an extra heat sink or nano on an Omen, or an extra adaptive nano plating on a Maller is really a worth while trade off for the utility that a 4th mid slot would entail ? There is no utility high slot for a neut or anything, either (which the Minmatar cruisers are entitled to) By all means give the ships 3 mid slots, but give them the power to work around this deficiency too. Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 176	Posted - 2014.11.29 14:01:51 - [15] - Quote I have flown all the Amarr cruisers in pvp. I think that the Omen or Maller in a 1v1 situation stand next to no chance against a Thorax, Vexor or Rupture if the pilots are similarly skilled. The first problem is the lack of range control. All the cruisers you will face have 1 more mid slots than you do. Basically, you can kiss your range control goodbye. They will either have more webs than you, or the same webs and a cap booster or whatever else. On top of that you cannot reliably brawl against other cruisers, for one thing ships like the Stabber Rupture and Vexor all get utility high slots and often fit energy neutralizers. Well you can counter that with a cap booster but then you don't have a single web so again you are a sitting duck. You don't get a tracking bonus or anything with the Omen either, alll you get is capacitor use bonus so you are basically ******. Scorch is the main thing keeping Amarr ships competitive. The thing that mainly proves my point is when you look at ship progression. When you go from a frigate hull to a cruiser hull you should expect to gain more slots. With every other race if you go from frigate to cruiser, you gain a mid slot. Incursus to Thorax, 3 mids to 4. Tristan to Vexor, 3 mids to 4, rifter to rupture, 3 mids to 4, the Slasher is somehow a special case with 4 mid slots and then progressing to a Stabber which also has 4 mid slots. I'm not saying that some Minmatar ships don't need to be tweaked either; I'm sure some of them probably need to be looked at. But I think Amarr cruisers are gimped. Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
Grease PaYN Calibrated Chaos 6	Posted - 2014.11.29 15:36:09 - [16] - Quote Amarr ships are generally not optimal for 1v1. That is, if you consider range control and unpredictability key factors for solo, which I do. Still, you can make them work, I can. Plug their weakness when you want to do solo and focus on their strengths when you want to gang up
Omar Alharazaad Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 867	Posted - 2014.11.29 15:38:15 - [17] - Quote Navy Omen, dead sexy. I say no more.
To mare Advanced Technology 380	Posted - 2014.11.29 18:05:02 - [18] - Quote Ares Desideratus wrote: Kahlira, his point is right. There's barely any difference between Omen and Maller; one is slower and tankier; other than that they are literally exactly the same. lol, one is actually the best kiting T1 cruiser in the game while the other one is a short range brawler. totally the same ship
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 176	Posted - 2014.11.29 18:18:34 - [19] - Quote To mare wrote: Ares Desideratus wrote: Kahlira, his point is right. There's barely any difference between Omen and Maller; one is slower and tankier; other than that they are literally exactly the same. lol, one is actually the best kiting T1 cruiser in the game while the other one is a short range brawler. totally the same ship Those are not strictly their roles Calling a laser ship a short range brawler simply because it has a resist bonus and is slow as ** with no range control ? By the way, the Maller actually can't reliably brawl with the other cruisers because of ** range control and / or crap damage and projection / reliance on capacitor. Calling the Omen the best kiting Tech 1 simply because Scorch is literally the only reason worth flying it ? Hey, look, I can roll my eyes too! Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
To mare Advanced Technology 380	Posted - 2014.11.29 20:41:12 - [20] - Quote Ares Desideratus wrote: To mare wrote: Ares Desideratus wrote: Kahlira, his point is right. There's barely any difference between Omen and Maller; one is slower and tankier; other than that they are literally exactly the same. lol, one is actually the best kiting T1 cruiser in the game while the other one is a short range brawler. totally the same ship Those are not strictly their roles Calling a laser ship a short range brawler simply because it has a resist bonus and is slow as ** with no range control ? By the way, the Maller actually can't reliably brawl with the other cruisers because of ** range control and / or crap damage and projection / reliance on capacitor. Calling the Omen the best kiting Tech 1 simply because Scorch is literally the only reason worth flying it ? Hey, look, I can roll my eyes too! still they are not the same ship and they are not supposed to fit the same role they both work very well in their intended role. they can be fitted almost in the same way and there will be not much difference between the 2, but if you fit them to use their strong points they feel and fly like 2 very different ships a maller would never be able to fly like a properly fit kite omen and an omen will never be able to have the staying power of properly fit maller. they have totally different bonuses, different stats (HP, speed, agi, etc), different drone bays, calling them the same just because of the same slot layout its just dumb
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 177	Posted - 2014.11.29 21:27:37 - [21] - Quote Listen, you, learn a little something. I never even said the Omen and the Maller are the same. What I said was true. Aside from one of them being much slower and tankier, they are literally exactly the same. There are no ifs ands or buts about it. They are literally exactly the same. Same slot layout, same weapons, same damage bonus. Different secondary bonus and one is more slow and one is more fast. Edit: actually I forgot about the drone bay, you're right on that end, but my point still stands I think. This is not even the point anyway, it's a silly, ****** little argument that doesn't matter in the slightest compared to the real issue, which is: 1. The Omen is not the best Tech 1 kiting cruiser, this is hugely debatable, yet it is the only argument for why the Omen doesn't suck it. But really what this argument boils down to is "Scorch". The reason the Omen is not the best Tech 1 kiting cruiser is because, while it may have a big DPS number with Scorch at a good range, it also lacks a utility high slot for a defensive neut or such. And only having 3 mid slots means you either fit a cap booster and have no defensive web or you fit a defensive web and suffer with huge capacitor issues and no tank. A defensive web or a neut is hugely important in a kiting setup, especially one whose maximum speed is like 2,200 m/s. 2. 3 mid slots makes the Omen gimped compared to other cruisers of it's class. Plain and simple. I'm not proposing CCP should just toss on an extra mid slot, willy nilly and hope everything will be OK. Actually I'm fine with the idea of having only 3 mid slots on the Tech 1 Amarr cruisers. But it's the effectiveness** of the ship that is the problem I mean even if you ignore scram range fighting and say the Omen is meant for kiting, other ships of the same class can just as easily perform well in the same roles, ships like the Thorax and Stabber have no issue whatsoever in performing in a kiting role but they aren't forced into it by being gimped out of competition by only having 3 mid slots. Then if you go into the scram range side of things, the Omen is completely out classed. I mean, simply giving the Omen a bit of a capacitor buff, and changing the stupid cap bonus to a tracking bonus or optimal range bonus, would be a huge step in bringing the Omen where it should be, which is competitive in it's class. In it's current state I don't think it really is. Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
Shelom Severasse The Maythorn 26	Posted - 2014.11.30 00:13:03 - [22] - Quote OP, i dont know what the **** youre smoking haha amarr cruisers are not in a bad place at all. lets look at the omen. the omen, as with many amarr ships, has a MASSIVE capacitor. this is due to the inherent nature of amarr. the use of energy turrets and to a lesser extent, neutralizers. this means that the ships enjoy a larger cap. you can compare this with minmatar/caldari cruisers, which have an infuriatingly, relatively small capacitor. this is because projectiles/missiles need 0 cap to operate. in line with many amarr trends, the omen has a 115 meter sig radius. this means it has one of the smallest initial sig radius' of any cruiser.. the only cruiser, to the extent of my knowledge, with a smaller sig is the navy omen.. which is still an omen ha. another great fact about this ship, is it is one of the faster cruisers if you intend to kite. it has more lows than a thorax, which means you can fit a nano fiber without sacrificing much of anything,,, cuz you have more lows,, and is therefore faster (you only need an mwd + cap booster + longpoint to kite in a cruiser. therefore the thoraxes 4th mid is actually somewhat wasted, unless you like having defensive webs, but if the enemy is that close to you, youre probably dead anyway so.. lol). unless you intend to kite without a nano. which is stupid. but the only other cruiser that is faster than the omen is the stabber. as far as damage goes, the omen has a 40 drone bay and band width. this is smaller than ONLY the vexor and thorax. which means it is both more flexible in what you want to do and has more dps than a maller by that fact alone. the ship also gets a rof bonus instead of a dmg bonus. the differences are small, but you actually get a LARGER dps bonus with a rof bonus than a straight dmg bonus whats more to dps, is the sheer damage projection. pulses have the worst tracking, but t2 medium focused pulses, with sharpshooter 5 and scorch, get a 20km optimal. this means you can always engage kiters (unless they have a td) regardless if you yourself are kiting or brawling. even if you are brawling against say a thorax, you load conflag and he loads void. what kinda range are you guys going to get? he will have, what, a 2.5km optimal? and youll have almost a 7km optimal? this means you can shoot the guy at such a range with perfect* dps and he can barely hit you. meaning he will need to load either faction ammo or null. while youre still blasting away through his reload and his subsequent turret cycles with t2 dps ammo. also, i noticed you seeming to discard the energy turret cap use bonus as it being irrelevant. do you have any idea how cap hungry ships with energy turrets are without that bonus??? those are just the main things that stand out to me. i am sure i can bring up more. try actually flying the ships from time to time instead of whining on the forums.
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 7150	Posted - 2014.11.30 00:35:33 - [23] - Quote The above comment covered the omen , the only thing that needs pointing out about the maller is it's the bait ship of eve. plates +slaves+trimarks on a maller gives you stupidly high hp numbers. "I'm also quite confident that you are laughing and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers." =]I[=
Dato Koppla Elite Guards 713	Posted - 2014.11.30 00:54:47 - [24] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: The above comment covered the omen , the only thing that needs pointing out about the maller is it's the bait ship of eve. plates +slaves+trimarks on a maller gives you stupidly high hp numbers. Nobody uses bait Mallers for this very reason, obvious bait is obvious. In fact, for small gang work, I find it best to lightly tank Mallers (800 plate) and go for triple heat sinks and the biggest guns and push out as much dps as possible since you're pretty much always the last thing people will shoot.
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 178	Posted - 2014.11.30 01:13:03 - [25] - Quote Shelom, So your big claim to fame is that with Conflagration you have a 4km range advantage over a Thorax ? How about the fact that it is actually impossible to utilize that advantage because of range control ? And I laughed at "sheer damage projection", as if a Thorax can't get the same or better projection with rails + having a defensive web. And speaking of projection, you don't think having a defensive web or neut in a kiting cruiser is a useful module, particularly against frigates ? Oh well, when they fix the Omen you can thank me. Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
Annuka The Tuskers The Tuskers Co. 0	Posted - 2014.11.30 02:09:56 - [26] - Quote The Maller is an outstanding cruiser for armor brawling gangs, thanks to its tank and projection with scorch. If it had an extra mid there would be no reason to ever use anything else for this purpose. The Omen is pretty 'meh' imo, but as a reasonably fast and cheap armor kiting cruiser it does the job just fine. Neither one is great for solo roaming, but not every ship excels at everything. The Amarr faction cruisers though, are awesome. Everyone already knows how amazing the Omen Navy is. The Aug Navy is a better version of a Maller when fit as a brawler, and it can be fit as a kiting ship that plays like a better Omen that has two medium neuts. That's not even getting into the T2 cruisers. In our HAC gangs, the only reason you bring something other than a Sacrilege is if you can't fly one.
Persifonne Monkey Demons Of Narnia 43	Posted - 2014.11.30 07:00:38 - [27] - Quote I just want my amarr recons not to suck so bad. Pooring one out for my curse homey
Shelom Severasse The Maythorn 28	Posted - 2014.11.30 09:20:56 - [28] - Quote Ares Desideratus wrote: Shelom, 1.) So your big claim to fame is that with Conflagration you have a 4km range advantage over a Thorax ? 2.) How about the fact that it is actually impossible to utilize that advantage because of range control ? 3.) And I laughed at "sheer damage projection", as if a Thorax can't get the same or better projection with rails + having a defensive web. 4.) And speaking of projection, you don't think having a defensive web or neut in a kiting cruiser is a useful module, particularly against frigates ? 5.) Oh well, when they fix the Omen you can thank me. i am going to number your entries so i dont have to type them out, just to keep everything straight 1.) i dont see how its my claim to fame, its just the differences between weapon systems that you can abuse 2.) how would it be impossible? fit an ab + web + scram and poof, you now have range dictation, as most cruisers are mwd fit 3.) do you know the difference between optimal and falloff? seriously. not trying to be a ****. an omen gets a 20km optimal and .08 tracking with meh skills. rail rax gets a debatable optimal since it depends on which ammo you use (but it is most likely less than 20km) but with MAX skills gets just short of .04 tracking. im sure you can see which weapon system has better application. 4.) uhm, they are very useful to have, but they arent needed. i dont think i said they werent useful man 5.) it aint broke. lol. and i would have no reason to thank you for something ccp would change if they followed that course of action. which i highly doubt they will. and hope they wont either.
Shelom Severasse The Maythorn 28	Posted - 2014.11.30 09:34:11 - [29] - Quote also, if its kiting cruisers youre talking about, and you mentioned the thorax and stabber earlier, i would bet on the omen winning a fair 1v1 between the 3 setups everytime. seriously. im not saying the omen is kiting cruiser king or anything, i just find what you can abuse between the different weapon systems heavily in favor of lasers. as opposed to rails or ACs rails have "ok" range, would much prefer more optimal like lasers and their tracking is horrendous. ACs on a stabber are literally almost pure falloff. which sucks for any kind of ranged engagement. not to mention ACs have lower initial dps, as they depend on their ability to change damage types to help them kill things, which is hard to have work in your favor as you usually want/need to use barrage for kiting with ACs. ^^ all that is based on the general fittings for kiting t1 attack cruisers. i am sure there are niche fits out there really have an edge against the omen. but it probably lacks something to have that edge and is susceptible to other things basically, what im saying is, different ships are different. if you MUST have a utility high on every hull you fly, i think you should look at faction ships.
Jawls Rohn Neon Incorporated 404 Alliance Not Found 4	Posted - 2014.11.30 09:50:42 - [30] - Quote Amarr t1 cruisers aside from the arbitrator are not great for solo. This is not the same as saying that they are gimped.
Kalihira Ultramar Independent Contracting 26	Posted - 2014.11.30 11:46:31 - [31] - Quote Ares you dont get the principle of laserboats. You do not need range control beceause you can shoot at any range with good tracking and damage within point range, and you will probably outtank anything that outdamages you. Shelom is pretty much right about the amarr cruisers: they are not great soloboats apart from the arby.
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 178	Posted - 2014.11.30 16:57:22 - [32] - Quote Can you explain why my Executioner has the same mid slots as my Omen Shelom ? Why aren't the frigate class ships gimped in the same way the cruisers are ? Crucifier has the same amount of mid slots as Arbitrator ? How does this make sense in any way ? If the cruisers are gimped for mid slots ( yet supposedly work fine ) you would think the frigates would work in the same way. This is not the case. Oh wait, there IS one frigate that is similarly gimped and it's the Punisher - and we all know how crap the Punisher is. It's a decent ship, it can fit a huge tank for a frigate, but I think the overwhelming majority would agree that the ship sucks for pvp most of the time, mainly because it is gimped with two mid slots and it has no effective way to counter act this gimpage. It can work under the right circumstances, but it is by far the worse frigate than the Executioner, Tormentor, or even the Crucifier. Shelom, you must be capable of simple math Omen - 3 mid slots. Thorax - 4 mid slots. That means it is literally impossible to control range against a Thorax within scram range. Unless, like you said, you fit a web and afterburner and just, I guess pray to god that the Thorax isn't doing the same ? That's some real combat effectiveness. Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 178	Posted - 2014.11.30 16:59:28 - [33] - Quote Kalihira wrote: Ares you dont get the principle of laserboats. You do not need range control beceause you can shoot at any range with good tracking and damage within point range, and you will probably outtank anything that outdamages you. Shelom is pretty much right about the amarr cruisers: they are not great soloboats apart from the arby. I don't get the principle of laser boats even though the ship I fly every single day is a laser Executioner that I destroy frigates and destroyers with on a daily basis ? You do need range control, especially when you can't reliably brawl with the opposing ship class. The Omen is overwhelmingly out classed in scram range and with Scorch it only really equals itself out with other kiting cruisers - even though it is the only one with no defensive web. Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 178	Posted - 2014.11.30 17:00:49 - [34] - Quote Jawls Rohn wrote: Amarr t1 cruisers aside from the arbitrator are not great for solo. This is not the same as saying that they are gimped. Yeah it is. If you can only use a ship for fleets ( and a Tech 1 freaking cruiser at that ) then that means there is something wrong. Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
Valkin Mordirc 409	Posted - 2014.11.30 17:46:43 - [35] - Quote Quote: Omen - 3 mid slots. Thorax - 4 mid slots. Omen - 6 low slot. Thorax - 5 Low slots If you are having troubles fitting an Omen I have something that may help `#DeleteTheWeak`
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 178	Posted - 2014.11.30 17:50:41 - [36] - Quote Valkin Mordirc wrote: Quote: Omen - 3 mid slots. Thorax - 4 mid slots. Omen - 6 low slot. Thorax - 5 Low slots If you are having troubles fitting an Omen I have something that may help the point is regarding range control FFS Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 178	Posted - 2014.11.30 18:00:03 - [37] - Quote Are you just like purposefully daft ? Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
Shelom Severasse The Maythorn 29	Posted - 2014.11.30 19:03:44 - [38] - Quote I would try to help you understand, but your belligerence is irritating, so im inclined to let you flail. Have fun.
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 178	Posted - 2014.11.30 19:48:04 - [39] - Quote Shelom Severasse wrote: I would try to help you understand, but your belligerence is irritating, so im inclined to let you flail. Have fun. The fact is the mid slot scheme with these cruisers doesn't add up when compared to other cruisers of the same class. And it doesn't add up when you compare them to their frigate sized counter parts. Amarr is the only race where you can jump from frigate to cruiser, and not have a an increase in mid slots. Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
Mizhir Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 69666	Posted - 2014.11.30 21:00:04 - [40] - Quote Each ship has their own strength and weaknesses that often match their "racial design". As for amarr ships their weakness is often a low amount of mids. But it is also their strength, as it means they got more lowslots which means more tank + dps for brawling ships or more dps/range/speed for kiting ships. The Slicer is one of the strongest frigs in game for solo pvp and so is the navy omen, yet both of them have the least amount of midslots for their class of ships. Not all ships are meant to be 1v1 ships as it is impossible to balance them that way, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are useless at it. While the low amount of mids mean that they got lacking range control against other armour cruisers with more mids, it doesn't necessarily mean you are going to lose the brawl. Unlike frigates where range control is the name of the game and far from every ships can project damage to full scram range, there are only a few cruisers that struggle to do that. And that is mostly just blasterboats with low caliber guns. Amarr cruisers on the other hand can easily push out beyond scram range even without any other mods to increase their range. And they can even threaten targets in point range. Their main weakness with their lower range control is if the target gets under the guns. But that is a built in weakness with lasers. When it comes to kiting, then the lack of defense web can be really annoying. But in return they got great tracking with scorch compared to rails and arties while still having similar, or close, range and dps. As for utility highslots, then there are actually few t1 cruisers that can threaten you with neuts. The Stabber and Rupture both suffers from low dps in order to get their utility highs and if they have medium neuts they often lack tank or dps or both. But even if you come across one of them, you have essentially met your counter, which brings us back to the strength and weaknesses. As for the neuting vexor, then they have to give up some dps to fit neuts, but with or without neuts they are still the strongest brawling cruiser in the game. In my opinion, CCP made a huge mistake when they purged utility highs from amarr ships. The maller should have kept the utility high in one way or another. After all, capacitor warfare is one of the traits of amarr ships. The amarr cruisers aren't meant to be the best solo cruisers. They are meant to shine in fleet scenarios, but the main issue here is not their performance, but the fact that medium rails make Thoraxs and Moas really good for that as well. One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
Jawls Rohn Neon Incorporated 404 Alliance Not Found 5	Posted - 2014.11.30 21:03:33 - [41] - Quote Ares Desideratus wrote: Jawls Rohn wrote: Amarr t1 cruisers aside from the arbitrator are not great for solo. This is not the same as saying that they are gimped. Yeah it is. If you can only use a ship for fleets ( and a Tech 1 freaking cruiser at that ) then that means there is something wrong. Not really. Compare - the stabber's a pretty good solo boat. It's terrible as a line ship for anything bigger than a very small gang. Does that make it a broken ship? No. It's just different.
To mare Advanced Technology 381	Posted - 2014.11.30 21:06:54 - [42] - Quote Ares Desideratus wrote: Can you explain why my Executioner has the same mid slots as my Omen Shelom ? Why aren't the frigate class ships gimped in the same way the cruisers are ? Crucifier has the same amount of mid slots as Arbitrator ? How does this make sense in any way ? If the cruisers are gimped for mid slots ( yet supposedly work fine ) you would think the frigates would work in the same way. This is not the case. the bellicose have the same midslots of the vigil, so what? Ares Desideratus wrote: Omen - 3 mid slots. Thorax - 4 mid slots. That means it is literally impossible to control range against a Thorax within scram range. Unless, like you said, you fit a web and afterburner and just, I guess pray to god that the Thorax isn't doing the same ? That's some real combat effectiveness. omen fits are usually faster and more agile (nanofibers) than thorax fits, plus you have a huge range advantage on the omen so if you fly correctly you shouldn't be in web/scram range, if you end up there it means you screwed up already. saying that amarr cruiser can't solo is wrong they can solo as much as other races cruisers. if your complaint about amarr cruiser is range control, guess what it's not such a big deal since you have a short range weapon that can hit up to 20 km and can switch ammo istantly, range control it's very important but the ships (especially the omen) can work very well even w/o a web, saying that a web is a must have for solo is BS its like all the vaga/cyna/random-kite-ship ppl are doing it wrong
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 178	Posted - 2014.11.30 21:42:52 - [43] - Quote Do you really think a single Nano makes up for the lack of web or cap booster ? And are you really just going to ignore the fact that 90% of Vagas and Cynas use a defensive neut, and in the case of the Cyna either a defensive web or a neut or even both ? Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 178	Posted - 2014.11.30 21:46:09 - [44] - Quote Jawls Rohn wrote: Ares Desideratus wrote: Jawls Rohn wrote: Amarr t1 cruisers aside from the arbitrator are not great for solo. This is not the same as saying that they are gimped. Yeah it is. If you can only use a ship for fleets ( and a Tech 1 freaking cruiser at that ) then that means there is something wrong. Not really. Compare - the stabber's a pretty good solo boat. It's terrible as a line ship for anything bigger than a very small gang. Does that make it a broken ship? No. It's just different. Nah, I don't buy that. A arty Stabber can still do 400 DPS at kiting range with 20k EHP and 2400 m/s so it is just as feasible in a fleet as an Omen is. Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 178	Posted - 2014.11.30 21:50:29 - [45] - Quote Mizhir, people keep bringing up the navy Omen but I understand that ship is in a good place and same with the Slicer. I am talking about the Tech 1 cruisers which are consistently outclassed or equaled in every role. They don't shine in any one particular area, except for a brick tanked Maller which is kind of cool I guess. Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
Famine Aligher'ri V i L e 15	Posted - 2014.12.01 00:26:01 - [46] - Quote Hrrm. THe Maller can fit a 1600mm plate with 2xEANM II's, 2xHSII and DC II to bring it's EHP to almost 65K. That's a pretty beast buffer tank versus a paper thin Thorax with 500+ DPS. Those that to beast something similar would be a 1600mm plated Rupture, but the Maller still has the best tank and not much lower DPS in comparison. The Ruppy does have the 2 extra utility slots for Neuts and a web of course, so the concern is pretty obvious on why the extra mid or utility. But, you can't have the entire cake and eat it too. Otherwise, all ships would be the same. The Maller has more PG than the Omen, but the Omen can fit a similar setup with a smaller cap booster, smaller tank, but more speed and more DPS. This is the real difference between the Omen and the Maller in my eyes. More speed/DPS or less speed/DPS for a fatter tank. Both still really great ships, but I feel this is coming down to wanting the best DPS, best Tank and best Utility ship argument. This has been mentioned many times over for the Amarrian cruisers. It won't happen. They are the tank of the setup. They serve a role that fits them well. They are not the tank, dps and utility ship you want. Famine Aligher'ri - Original Solo Pirate Former The Pirate Syndicate Member Former D.e.V.i.a.n.c.e member Former Burn Eden member Former BioMass Cartel member
Tusker Crazinski Delta vane Corp. Mordus Angels 2	Posted - 2014.12.01 00:55:10 - [47] - Quote Matari gun cruisers and CBC only have 4 mids and shield tank HACs vaga has 4 med slots with an active sheilding bonus, and T2 sheild resist, munnin has 3 slots with a T2 resist profile in it's shields navy harbinger has more mids than both hurricanes hell the tempest and the phoon only have 5 oh and LOL the wolf, T2 sheild resist.... HAS 2 MIDS
Zarnak Wulf Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 1816	Posted - 2014.12.01 02:48:39 - [48] - Quote The Maller isn't just a good fleet ship. It's THE fleet ship as far as T1 cruisers go. '20 Mallers and 5 logi' in a low-sec intel channel will cause a double take more then 20 of any other T1 cruiser. Amarr militia ran with the concept for a while - the ship doctrine was called 'Panzer Fleet'.
Famine Aligher'ri V i L e 16	Posted - 2014.12.01 03:03:45 - [49] - Quote Btw, here is a good setup for Maller to prove my point versys the solo plate Ruppy: 60K EHP (77/71/70/65) 465 DPS (Gleam) / 285 (Aurora) (22KM+1.2KM) 1200m/s Speed Cap Stable 67% [Maller, New Setup 1] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Damage Control II 'Refuge' Adaptive Nano Plating I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I Medium Brief Capacitor Overcharge I, Cap Booster 400 Quad Light Beam Laser II, Gleam M Quad Light Beam Laser II, Gleam M Quad Light Beam Laser II, Gleam M Quad Light Beam Laser II, Gleam M Quad Light Beam Laser II, Gleam M Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Drones of choice. Famine Aligher'ri - Original Solo Pirate Former The Pirate Syndicate Member Former D.e.V.i.a.n.c.e member Former Burn Eden member Former BioMass Cartel member
Odithia Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 71	Posted - 2014.12.01 09:21:49 - [50] - Quote Zarnak Wulf wrote: The Maller isn't just a good fleet ship. It's THE fleet ship as far as T1 cruisers go. '20 Mallers and 5 logi' in a low-sec intel channel will cause a double take more then 20 of any other T1 cruiser. Amarr militia ran with the concept for a while - the ship doctrine was called 'Panzer Fleet'. I too like the Maller for this exact purpose. It has a "built in" cap bonus giving it a better cap than the omen with guns up to Focused Medium *** and a second proper bonus like every ship should have. My biggest gripe is with the Omen (not navy). Is it kinda slow to be played as a cheap nomen and doesn't have the defensive web meaning a single frig can pretty easily ruin your day considering the poor tracking of pulse. It also lack versality meaning as a Amarr newbro you are in a bad position if your corp run shield cruiser fleets.
Syrias Bizniz Krautfleet 387	Posted - 2014.12.01 10:51:52 - [51] - Quote So, you are flying Executioners and like the laser-power on range, huh? And totally make it work with only 3 mids, yeah? Then tell me, if the Omen is the upgrade to the Executioner, why would you need 4 midslots? The Thorax is an upgrade to the Incursus, which is a Brawler. When solo brawling, midslots count. As such, it's pretty cool to have a 4th mid on a Thorax, or Vexor. Both these ships can also kite, in which case, most of the time they will utilize this midslot for ... tank. Or, as you pointed out, a defensive web, which is cool, since they're not the fastest cruisers. Fast, but not the fastest. The Omen, however, is among the fastest cruisers, together with the Stabber, which has 4 midslots. The Stabber also has horrible DPS, and the 4th mid sure as hell wont help with that, other than fitting a Shieldtank so you don't waste 2 or 3 of your precious lowslots on an armor tank. Also, not want to burn you here, but feeling the need for a defensive web or utility highslot for a neut kinda creates the impression that you're not trusting your piloting and decision making skills, and need more fail-safe-stuff. Key to being a good pilot is knowing your weakspots, and do your very best in not allowing your enemies to capitalize on them. As such, when you can't defend against a frigate that has come into tackle range, your goal is not 'having a web to help with this', your goal is to not let it happen. If the first frigate that get's a scram on you isn't gotten rid of in the next 3-5 seconds, you're most likely eating a second scram. And a third. And a notification that your friendly Insurance Company knows how bad you just fcked things up. The Omen, with it's 3 midslots, is probably the best kiting cruiser in the T1 lineup, and for fleets, can also happily flown like a thorax can be: As a brawler. With one more Lowslot, which is what you want in a fleet of armor brawlers, not another mid. Not everything you learn in FW Frigate Combat has to be emphasized on at cruiser level and above. Look at the NOmen. Look at it. 3 mids, one utility high, and enough grid to put a small neut in there. A SMALL NEUT! If you think a small Neutralizer will help you fight the frigates off, than god bless you, and you'll need his blessing! And still, the NOmen currently is the kiting cruiser.
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 178	Posted - 2014.12.01 15:39:07 - [52] - Quote Syrias Bizniz wrote: So, you are flying Executioners and like the laser-power on range, huh? And totally make it work with only 3 mids, yeah? Then tell me, if the Omen is the upgrade to the Executioner, why would you need 4 midslots? The Thorax is an upgrade to the Incursus, which is a Brawler. When solo brawling, midslots count. As such, it's pretty cool to have a 4th mid on a Thorax, or Vexor. Both these ships can also kite, in which case, most of the time they will utilize this midslot for ... tank. Or, as you pointed out, a defensive web, which is cool, since they're not the fastest cruisers. Fast, but not the fastest. The Omen, however, is among the fastest cruisers, together with the Stabber, which has 4 midslots. The Stabber also has horrible DPS, and the 4th mid sure as hell wont help with that, other than fitting a Shieldtank so you don't waste 2 or 3 of your precious lowslots on an armor tank. Also, not want to burn you here, but feeling the need for a defensive web or utility highslot for a neut kinda creates the impression that you're not trusting your piloting and decision making skills, and need more fail-safe-stuff. Key to being a good pilot is knowing your weakspots, and do your very best in not allowing your enemies to capitalize on them. As such, when you can't defend against a frigate that has come into tackle range, your goal is not 'having a web to help with this', your goal is to not let it happen. If the first frigate that get's a scram on you isn't gotten rid of in the next 3-5 seconds, you're most likely eating a second scram. And a third. And a notification that your friendly Insurance Company knows how bad you just fcked things up. The Omen, with it's 3 midslots, is probably the best kiting cruiser in the T1 lineup, and for fleets, can also happily flown like a thorax can be: As a brawler. With one more Lowslot, which is what you want in a fleet of armor brawlers, not another mid. Not everything you learn in FW Frigate Combat has to be emphasized on at cruiser level and above. Look at the NOmen. Look at it. 3 mids, one utility high, and enough grid to put a small neut in there. A SMALL NEUT! If you think a small Neutralizer will help you fight the frigates off, than god bless you, and you'll need his blessing! And still, the NOmen currently is the kiting cruiser. You are delusional if you think most kiting cruiser don't use a defensive web or neut 90% of the time. NOmen fits use a medium neut most of the time. This isn't because the pilots using them lack skill, it's because it's kind of a ******* necessity when if you don't have one a frigate can scram you orbit you and not be touched by your pulse lasers. Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
Famine Aligher'ri V i L e 16	Posted - 2014.12.01 17:53:56 - [53] - Quote Ares Desideratus wrote: You are delusional if you think most kiting cruiser don't use a defensive web or neut 90% of the time. NOmen fits use a medium neut most of the time. This isn't because the pilots using them lack skill, it's because it's kind of a ***** necessity when if you don't have one a frigate can scram you orbit you and not be touched by your pulse lasers. Edit: I like how you say "the thorax isn't the fastest. Its fast but not the fastest." and then go on to say "the Omen is among the fastest cruisers" trying to create the illusion that the Omen has a speed advantage over the Thorax. Depends on how you are and how you define kiting. Obviously Neut II's are 12,600m and Web II's are 13,000m with no bonuses applied to either. Faction mods have modified optimal ranges on both, but assuming most are not pimping out that hard in PvP, you're going to want to kite outside of web range for maximum effect. Otherwise, you're going to be webbed and neuted by your opponent if you are kiting within 13,000m mark. That said, kiting outside of 14,000m or above is well outside your web and neut range, but still within warp disruption range and ideally gun and drone range. In this case, I find it hard to believe you will be using your web and neuts 90% of the time unless there are bonuses applied to do so. If that is the case, there should be no issue for a ship with no web or neuts to kite well for as long as they can keep a safe distance outside their opponents web and neut range. When they are not, then it's perfectly balance in my eyes because the counter to a kiting setup should always be a close range setup with tackle enabled such as web and neutralizers. So what the problem is? Famine Aligher'ri** - Original Solo Pirate Former The Pirate Syndicate Member Former D.e.V.i.a.n.c.e member Former Burn Eden member Former BioMass Cartel member
Speedkermit Damo Demonic Retribution 368	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:52:02 - [54] - Quote Ares Desideratus wrote: Amarr cruisers are gimped. My Crucifier has the same amount of mid-slots as my Arbitrator. My Executioner has the same amount of mid-slots as my Omen or my Maller. Amarr is the only race with this deficiency. But they're shiny and gold! Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
Jawls Rohn Neon Incorporated 404 Alliance Not Found 6	Posted - 2014.12.02 21:43:46 - [55] - Quote Ares Desideratus wrote: Jawls Rohn wrote: Ares Desideratus wrote: Jawls Rohn wrote: Amarr t1 cruisers aside from the arbitrator are not great for solo. This is not the same as saying that they are gimped. Yeah it is. If you can only use a ship for fleets ( and a Tech 1 freaking cruiser at that ) then that means there is something wrong. Not really. Compare - the stabber's a pretty good solo boat. It's terrible as a line ship for anything bigger than a very small gang. Does that make it a broken ship? No. It's just different. Nah, I don't buy that. A arty Stabber can still do 400 DPS at kiting range with 20k EHP and 2400 m/s so it is just as feasible in a fleet as an Omen is. No it can't. Link an arty fit that can get that DPS. Those EHP numbers and speed are a given , but even with 3 damage mods you do terrible dps. And maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I need 2 ACRs to get a full rack of 650s, an LSE and an MWD on. Stabber's are terrible fleet ships. They work well in v small gangs where each pilot basically flies solo, anything above they're not good at.
Reynas Arthie The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing 4	Posted - 2014.12.02 23:08:18 - [56] - Quote I AM AMARR! I warp in with my fleet. We land, target everything in range Then MELT EVERYTHING! You need to go back to the institute and redo your classes on basic Amarrian warfare!
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 178	Posted - 2014.12.03 04:14:19 - [57] - Quote A Thorax can do anything an Omen can do at any range + it has extra utility in mid slots Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
Reynas Arthie The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing 4	Posted - 2014.12.03 04:15:52 - [58] - Quote Ares Desideratus wrote: A Thorax can do anything an Omen can do at any range + it has extra utility in mid slots Really mate if you don't like them so much just stop flying them. You are just sounding like a crying 12yr old now.
Shelom Severasse The Maythorn 30	Posted - 2014.12.03 04:27:14 - [59] - Quote Ares Desideratus wrote: A Thorax can do anything an Omen can do at any range + it has extra utility in mid slots hahahahahahahaha bro just stop already my sides cant take much more but seriously. at kiting range the thorax NEEDS rails, at brawl range the thorax NEEDS blasters. where as the omen just needs pulses. a thorax CANNOT do everything an omen can. DIFFERENT ships are DIFFERENT.
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 178	Posted - 2014.12.03 04:50:53 - [60] - Quote Hey, here's a solution to crap ships! just don't fly them! Geez wish I would have thought of that ! Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 178	Posted - 2014.12.03 04:52:03 - [61] - Quote Shelom Severasse wrote: Ares Desideratus wrote: A Thorax can do anything an Omen can do at any range + it has extra utility in mid slots hahahahahahahaha bro just stop already my sides cant take much more but seriously. at kiting range the thorax NEEDS rails, at brawl range the thorax NEEDS blasters. where as the omen just needs pulses. a thorax CANNOT do everything an omen can. DIFFERENT ships are DIFFERENT. So what if it NEEDS rails to kite, it can still get the job done and arguably better than an Omen because same stats but extra utility. Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
Reynas Arthie The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing 4	Posted - 2014.12.03 05:09:56 - [62] - Quote Ares Desideratus wrote: Hey, here's a solution to crap ships! just don't fly them! Geez wish I would have thought of that ! Here is a shovel. That hole you keep digging just gets bigger and deeper.
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 178	Posted - 2014.12.03 05:18:06 - [63] - Quote Oh no, you mean I'm making a fool of myself on an internet forum ? Damn... I don't know what to do with my life now. Can't say I'm surprised by these responses though. Same thing happened when I said they should make Tech 3 Dessies. Boom, now it's happening. I also remember calling for the Nighthawk to get that resist bonus like the Drake and people said I was dumb then too. Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
To mare Advanced Technology 381	Posted - 2014.12.03 05:46:49 - [64] - Quote just stop feeding the troll
The-Ron-Coyote Viziam Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.12.03 09:09:44 - [65] - Quote Kosetzu wrote: Hate to tell you but that is what is good about the game. Not everything needs to have the same things. This pretty much sums up all ship griping that is involved with the game itself. Truth is while each race has it's strengths and weaknesses. There is no perfect way to go. There is no skill set that makes you unstoppable.
ggodhsup internet spaceship relocation movement 15	Posted - 2014.12.03 09:40:21 - [66] - Quote Ares Desideratus wrote: people said I was dumb then too. maybe they are onto something.....
Kalihira Ultramar Independent Contracting 26	Posted - 2014.12.03 09:56:11 - [67] - Quote ggodhsup wrote: Ares Desideratus wrote: people said I was dumb then too. maybe they are onto something..... I pretty much gave up on the guy....
ggodhsup internet spaceship relocation movement 15	Posted - 2014.12.03 11:19:15 - [68] - Quote im not going to. Ares Desideratus wrote: . Boom, now it's happening. you sig is offensive....and you need a facebook. look for attention elsewhere.....you are ruining my forum experience. seriously....when was the last time you used an amarr cruiser.....you kb says.....never......well.....maybe you lost one.....then made this miraculous discovery. to which you ran to the forums to tell everyone about.....and now.....everyone thinks your a dunce.
Abby Silverwind Demonic Retribution 2	Posted - 2014.12.03 14:14:02 - [69] - Quote Nothing wrong with Amarr ships. Maybe there not part of the meta atm but Nomen, omen, Naug, maller, arby, all great ships when fitted and used correctly. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; Your rod and your staff, they comfort me.
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 178	Posted - 2014.12.03 16:17:03 - [70] - Quote ggodhsup wrote: im not going to. Ares Desideratus wrote: . Boom, now it's happening. you sig is offensive....and you need a facebook. look for attention elsewhere.....you are ruining my forum experience. seriously....when was the last time you used an amarr cruiser.....you kb says.....never......well.....maybe you lost one.....then made this miraculous discovery. to which you ran to the forums to tell everyone about.....and now.....everyone thinks your a dunce. EDIT: wait you have lost a few....to blaster ships.....dont you know that they have terrible falloff?....or are you blaming amarr cruisers being bad on the premise that you only fly the omen and then try to brawl with blaster ships with it? you really are a dunce. EDIT EDIT: OP is gimped....close thread please. You can't exploit the terrible falloff of the Thorax without range control. So you are completely outclassed in scram range and the only option left is to use Scorch at long range. At that point the Thorax can easily be fit to do the same thing (kite at long range) only with extra utility in mid slot. Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 178	Posted - 2014.12.03 16:25:59 - [71] - Quote Abby Silverwind wrote: Nothing wrong with Amarr ships. Maybe there not part of the meta atm but Nomen, omen, Naug, maller, arby, all great ships when fitted and used correctly. You're making the mistake of throwing navy ships in there when I have no beef with them. Focus on the three Tech 1s you put in there, the Omen, Maller and Arby. The only thing the maller is good for is being a slow brick tanked sitting duck. Oh hey apparently people fly in Maller fleets so apparently it must not be crap. People fly in Velator fleets too but it's good on them for exploiting the armor tank and range of the Maller. It's still crap The Omen can't do anything better than the other cruisers. It is completely out-classed in scram range, like, you stand no chance in scram range because of no range or no brawling ability. Even if you fit it with AB + scram + web you still have no range control because other cruisers can do the exact same thing but with TWO webs. You are left to kite with Scorch. The problem here is that every other cruiser can be fit to kite and do it just as well as the Omen, with the Thorax being just as good at kiting but with extra utility in mid slots. The Stabber has a decent chunk of speed advantage right off the bat. The Arbitrator is as slow as a Rupture but has no tank and barely any DPS. It's an embarassment. Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
Shelom Severasse The Maythorn 30	Posted - 2014.12.03 19:46:04 - [72] - Quote Im gonna laugh when i pop whatever youre flying with an omen. Then, ill post the link in this thread. So it gets locked. And then everyone will see the last comment in this thread with your being killed by an omen. #imcomingforyakourmonen
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 178	Posted - 2014.12.03 20:05:30 - [73] - Quote Shelom Severasse wrote: Im gonna laugh when i pop whatever youre flying with an omen. Then, ill post the link in this thread. So it gets locked. And then everyone will see the last comment in this thread with your being killed by an omen. #imcomingforyakourmonen I've gotten kills with a Impairor. That doesn't make it a good pvp ship. In a 1v1, I will dominate you from beginning to end. Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
Shelom Severasse The Maythorn 30	Posted - 2014.12.03 21:31:36 - [74] - Quote Sure
ggodhsup internet spaceship relocation movement 15	Posted - 2014.12.03 22:01:03 - [75] - Quote Ares Desideratus wrote: ggodhsup wrote: im not going to. Ares Desideratus wrote: . Boom, now it's happening. you sig is offensive....and you need a facebook. look for attention elsewhere.....you are ruining my forum experience. seriously....when was the last time you used an amarr cruiser.....you kb says.....never......well.....maybe you lost one.....then made this miraculous discovery. to which you ran to the forums to tell everyone about.....and now.....everyone thinks your a dunce. EDIT: wait you have lost a few....to blaster ships.....dont you know that they have terrible falloff?....or are you blaming amarr cruisers being bad on the premise that you only fly the omen and then try to brawl with blaster ships with it? you really are a dunce. EDIT EDIT: OP is gimped....close thread please. You can't exploit the terrible falloff of the Thorax without range control. So you are completely outclassed in scram range and the only option left is to use Scorch at long range. At that point the Thorax can easily be fit to do the same thing (kite at long range) only with extra utility in mid slot. your damage will be exactly the same with pulses and scorch at long range.....range control against a thorax isnt difficult....stay out of web range.....done. which is the falloff of blasters even with null. so med utility slot is kinda moot....what? is he/she going cap boost his/her way into range? you have obviously never piloted anything but amarr......try training another race. im not sure how many rail thoraxes youve seen.....but a worm would have its way with one.(or anything fast enough to outrun/track med drones)
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 178	Posted - 2014.12.03 22:22:38 - [76] - Quote You say that while conveniently ignoring the fact that the Thorax can be just as effective at kiting, or even more effective at it, than the Omen. And as if an Omen is the bane of kiting Worms or something. Sure there is definitely a slightly greater chance that you will be able to land good shots on a Worm with Heavy Pulses than with 250mm Railguns, but both can be used and both can be effective, even against a kiting Worm. The tracking advantage is less significant than the speed of both the Omen and Thorax giving them the ability to pull range and cut transversal velocity to land good dps. So what's left for the Omen ? It is completely out-classed in scram range and outside of scram range it can barely equal itself out with the other cruisers. Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
Reynas Arthie The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing 9	Posted - 2014.12.03 23:01:03 - [77] - Quote In the words of Agony Unleashed Stop Sucking!
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 178	Posted - 2014.12.03 23:23:45 - [78] - Quote That's what I'm saying man. The Omen needs to stop sucking right now. Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
ggodhsup internet spaceship relocation movement 15	Posted - 2014.12.04 16:17:16 - [79] - Quote Ares Desideratus wrote: Shelom Severasse wrote: Im gonna laugh when i pop whatever youre flying with an omen. Then, ill post the link in this thread. So it gets locked. And then everyone will see the last comment in this thread with your being killed by an omen. #imcomingforyakourmonen I've gotten kills with a Impairor. That doesn't make it a good pvp ship. In a 1v1, I will dominate you from beginning to end. make sure to bring your gimped omen.....im sure the domination will be awesome. and a rail rax has no tank.......try to fit one.....try it. better yet.....try to fit a thorax with long range anything and a tank. you are missing everything these people are telling you. P.S. your sig still has the f word in it. it makes you look stupid. that should have been the red flag. i feel like you are a veers alt. oh yeah.....your avatar is ugly and you suck at pvp.....dont blame ships for your inadequacy.
Kalihira Ultramar Independent Contracting 26	Posted - 2014.12.04 19:36:53 - [80] - Quote He's pretty clueless, just don't feed the troll.....
Medalyn Isis Aliastra Gallente Federation 459	Posted - 2014.12.04 20:00:32 - [81] - Quote The maller is great. Arbitrator is great at it's role also. The omen could do with being buffed in some area to make it stand out from the maller, as there are only edge cases where it is not better to use a maller everytime. As for the premise that Amarr cruiser are bad though, I disagree. Edit - The omen is still viable though, OP sounds like he is just bad. But if we are on the subject of balance it could do with a little more to stand out from the maller.
Skydell Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums 650	Posted - 2014.12.04 20:26:25 - [82] - Quote Amarr ships are proper gank ships in EVE. They scare off most people including alliances because they don't stand down well. It's do or die with Amarr and if you find you are dying more than doing the only alternative is to bring more ships.
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 178	Posted - 2014.12.05 02:00:47 - [83] - Quote ggodhsup wrote: Ares Desideratus wrote: Shelom Severasse wrote: Im gonna laugh when i pop whatever youre flying with an omen. Then, ill post the link in this thread. So it gets locked. And then everyone will see the last comment in this thread with your being killed by an omen. #imcomingforyakourmonen I've gotten kills with a Impairor. That doesn't make it a good pvp ship. In a 1v1, I will dominate you from beginning to end. make sure to bring your gimped omen.....im sure the domination will be awesome. and a rail rax has no tank.......try to fit one.....try it. better yet.....try to fit a thorax with long range anything and a tank. you are missing everything these people are telling you. P.S. your sig still has the f word in it. it makes you look stupid. that should have been the red flag. i feel like you are a veers alt. oh yeah.....your avatar is ugly and you suck at pvp.....dont blame ships for your inadequacy. oh ok then. Sorry for using bad word haha You will sing a different tune if you 1v1 me. Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
ggodhsup internet spaceship relocation movement 15	Posted - 2014.12.05 03:15:55 - [84] - Quote Ares Desideratus wrote: ggodhsup wrote: Ares Desideratus wrote: Shelom Severasse wrote: Im gonna laugh when i pop whatever youre flying with an omen. Then, ill post the link in this thread. So it gets locked. And then everyone will see the last comment in this thread with your being killed by an omen. #imcomingforyakourmonen I've gotten kills with a Impairor. That doesn't make it a good pvp ship. In a 1v1, I will dominate you from beginning to end. make sure to bring your gimped omen.....im sure the domination will be awesome. and a rail rax has no tank.......try to fit one.....try it. better yet.....try to fit a thorax with long range anything and a tank. you are missing everything these people are telling you. P.S. your sig still has the f word in it. it makes you look stupid. that should have been the red flag. i feel like you are a veers alt. oh yeah.....your avatar is ugly and you suck at pvp.....dont blame ships for your inadequacy. oh ok then. Sorry for using bad word haha You will sing a different tune if you 1v1 me. doubt it. i use good ships apparently. anytime you want ....im stationed in hek currently. chump. your hollow apology earned you a report ticket. and you are more than welcome to bring your badness to hek. i will use my utility midslot to own the pants off you. bring a BS.....you are gonna need it. P.S. your avatar is ugly.
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 178	Posted - 2014.12.05 03:31:53 - [85] - Quote Woah, easy partner, I surrender! If the signature is so bad then why wasn't it censored ? It's ok according to the forum rules, so if CCP decide it should be censored than they will edit it. And what is wrong with being ugly, son ? I am not here to support the fascism of beauty, didn't you ever read the Ugly Duckling? That's a story where all the ducks think that this one duck was ugly, then it turned out it was actually a beautiful swan. And I accept your challenge. You will fall. Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
ggodhsup internet spaceship relocation movement 15	Posted - 2014.12.05 03:40:55 - [86] - Quote Ares Desideratus wrote: Woah, easy partner, I surrender! If the signature is so bad then why wasn't it censored ? It's ok according to the forum rules, so if CCP decide it should be censored than they will edit it. And what is wrong with being ugly, son ? I am not here to support the fascism of beauty, didn't you ever read the Ugly Duckling? That's a story where all the ducks think that this one duck was ugly, then it turned out it was actually a beautiful swan. And I accept your challenge. You will fall. i hate that i feed trolls....you are a troll.....im probably older than you. you condescending use of the word "son".....is just stupid......maybe i will teach you a thing or two about kiting....since you apparently cant outrun a thorax.
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 178	Posted - 2014.12.05 03:58:52 - [87] - Quote One way or another you are going down. I will explode your space ship, within seconds. And you will bow at my feet. Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
Shelom Severasse The Maythorn 32	Posted - 2014.12.05 05:43:34 - [88] - Quote How in the hell is beauty a fascist idea Do you even know what fascism is?
Ares Desideratus Star Children Of Cain 178	Posted - 2014.12.05 05:56:00 - [89] - Quote I didn't say beauty was a fascist idea but beauty has been used in history for fascist agendas. Fascism is when corporations become government In some cases fascism comes from the media and a cultural demand for how people should act, dress, behave and think in most cases a certain worship of beauty often occurs. Is there any way to unswallow my pride? Can I fuck myself down?
Alaric Faelen Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes 296	Posted - 2014.12.08 05:32:59 - [90] - Quote The Zealot is a great HAC. Tiny sig radius but solid range. The Guardian is a staple of most armor fleets. The Legion sees widespread use in T3 gangs. Their Recons are a bit outclassed. I don't remember when was the last time I saw an Amarr Recon in fleet. The T1 cruisers are okay ships. The Arbi especially sees use even in T2 heavy fleets. As an anti-frig/tackle ship, the Arbi is a lot of fun.
Kosetzu S1lver Flame 131	Posted - 2014.12.08 05:52:27 - [91] - Quote Ares Desideratus wrote: Fascism is when corporations become government. Soo, Caldari State in a nutshell then?
Chessur Mining Industry Exile Foundation The Camel Empire 411	Posted - 2014.12.08 06:35:37 - [92] - Quote http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fascism Yah.... so Fascism is not in fact a corporation(s) taking over and ruing everything. Fascism is basically a form of dictatorship. The Caldari on the other hand have a fierce meritocracy, and are more like a Corporatocracy in government. For those of you who are confused by those words, let me dictionary.com that or you Meritocracy: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/meritocracy?s=t Corporatocracy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatocracy Also amarr ships are some of the best ships for PvP currently. Omen Navy Issue Aug Navy Omen Oracle Curse Guardian Zealot Those are all amazing ships- I don't see how you can hate on them? They are amazing kiters- and the curse is hands down one of the strongest recons in the game.
Valkin Mordirc 441	Posted - 2014.12.08 07:05:45 - [93] - Quote Don't tell me you think the Legion is crap when you can do this with it. `#DeleteTheWeak`
Chessur Mining Industry Exile Foundation The Camel Empire 411	Posted - 2014.12.08 07:14:38 - [94] - Quote Valkin Mordirc wrote: Don't tell me you think the Legion is crap when you can do this with it. This is useless. PvP legion kills PvE BS that is using torps, missing a mid, and also doesn't have any rigors to apply damage. Any cruiser could have killed that thing.
Valkin Mordirc 441	Posted - 2014.12.08 08:36:17 - [95] - Quote Chessur wrote: Valkin Mordirc wrote: Don't tell me you think the Legion is crap when you can do this with it. This is useless. PvP legion kills PvE BS that is using torps, missing a mid, and also doesn't have any rigors to apply damage. Any cruiser could have killed that thing. Actually I don't think you're right about that. The Barghest could have out ran a deimos easily. They are quite fast, if he did have a point he would have one that fight, if you count the HAC running away as a win Same would go for anything T3. They are slow as balls. But that point wasn't to show skill or whatever. It was to show that a Amarr T3 can and will take out things. And not waddle in a pool of misery like the OP is saying. `#DeleteTheWeak`
Templar Dane Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 274	Posted - 2014.12.10 13:04:46 - [96] - Quote Valkin Mordirc wrote: Chessur wrote: Valkin Mordirc wrote: Don't tell me you think the Legion is crap when you can do this with it. This is useless. PvP legion kills PvE BS that is using torps, missing a mid, and also doesn't have any rigors to apply damage. Any cruiser could have killed that thing. Actually I don't think you're right about that. The Barghest could have out ran a deimos easily. They are quite fast, if he did have a point he would have one that fight, if you count the HAC running away as a win Same would go for anything T3. They are slow as balls. But that point wasn't to show skill or whatever. It was to show that a Amarr T3 can and will take out things. And not waddle in a pool of misery like the OP is saying. I've taken down two battlecruisers with an industrial, solo, and that doesn't make them good at pvp......
Idriane Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno. 0	Posted - 2014.12.11 15:20:13 - [97] - Quote Op take it back... amarr is the race of the gods..... im actually thinking about selling all my toons and buying a new one with only amarr ships and skills in its head.

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