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Nerfing the mission player again

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Ather Ialeas Amarr	Posted - 2006.09.03 20:09:00 - [31] Originally by: The Enslaver Missions aren't even really in the spirit of what EVE is... Working for NPC's? Pfft... The old mantra is that you shouldn't disrespect those who pay the bills.
Mongrove Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.03 20:10:00 - [32] Originally by: Jim McGregor Well of course, since the mission runners fail to adapt. How hard is it for a group of mission runners to have their pvp setup in cargo, dock at a station and switch gear? Then you may even outnumber the campers if you are a few. Or, if you get ganked while doing a mission, dont setup your ship so it has holes in the resistance at all. If you are a few people, you will finish the mission quick and easy anyway - together. The problem isnt with the game really.. its the attitude of the mission runners to avoid players. I agree with the grouping point, but the all mission/agent system is not aimed at groups but only solo players. Missions are also a way to spend time on EvE while the rest of the corp is log out. It will probably change with Kali (hope so). Some missions require specific resistance, and a good shield/armor tank setup. Not all mission I known. Yes you can group etc blabla. But again, the game is not aimed at random group play like city of heroes for instance. Personnaly, I just try to avoid gate campers, and YES, I do low sec missions :) But the fact is: some ppl just don't like pvp, so I guess you'll never see them in low sec.
Shavannah k'theral Amarr	Posted - 2006.09.03 20:30:00 - [33] But the thing is that you only need to move closer to 0.0 in order to raise Security Status Can someone point at me what you get with higher sec status (Not Agent standing)?
Arcticblue2 Gallente Nordic Freelancers inc	Posted - 2006.09.03 20:49:00 - [34] at first I tought that they wanted to nerf the missions again .. then I reread your post... and understands alot more. They make more consequenses to break the law.. you could still fly missions in low sec even if you are -10 (just not to the faction if you kill loads of them). I fly lvl 4 missions in low sec and I have so many times been jumped by, or have to bust gatecamps, the missions themself are not very rewarding.. they used to be but now they don't pay enough to be a group doing them together. I mean ... 450K isk for a battleship that is what you get in bounty, sometimes at a few missions .. up to 1.2 million but then you only get 2 of them at the mission and the reward is not that great. at a good mission I might make 10-15 million isk in bounty and reward/Bonus.. and I might use a few hours doing that... all depends. The biggest mistake CCP is doing now .. well good for missionrunners bad for pirates really, is to make all into deadspace... why ? You always warp into the deadspace and end up at the same spot, if the missionrunner is like 150 km away shooting rats the pirate have no way to get to the missionrunner before the MR is out into safty. Second ... and that is since you will warp in at the same spot, you can easy set up a gankfleet there, some might argue.. yes you can scan who is there... but seriously ... you could for example have people cloaked there ... or them sitting at the entry point so that once the pirate warp to the victim... he ends up in the hands of a anti-pirate fleet. Mind you that I'm no pirate, and I find it some exitment doing missions in low sec in a system quite heavy infested with pirates Oh well.. as long as they don't nerf the missions any further, I don't like shooting people, I defend myself and my friends but usually no offense on me... ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Kye Kenshin Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.09.03 20:51:00 - [35] Seriously you mission runners whine about every little thing. You act like your the most imporant part of EVE ever and you deserve the most attention. Well you dont! Infact you contribute nothing to EVE unlike the traders, miners, builders, pirates, alliance soldiers, mercs, pvpers, RPers you bring nothing special to this game. If you were to all quit tomorrow no one would care or even notice. Rant over. www.beaglecorp.com \| Join "BEAGLEPUBLIC" channel ingame.
Kal Oman Delta Desperados	Posted - 2006.09.03 21:04:00 - [36] There are two equations that EvE needs to consider. The common Risk-vs-Reward and the less common but still in EvE Time-vs-Reward. You see the Time-vs-Reward each time you open your skills display and see that single blinky light needing 32days 16hours 32min 22sec to stop. Missions are more heavily dependent upon the Time-vs-Reward and should provide some level of return on the time investment. Nurfing missions in any way to make the time spent doing them worse than say mining in empire in a Covetor for the same amount of time is probably the breaking point.
Tehyarec	Posted - 2006.09.03 21:07:00 - [37] Edited by: Tehyarec on 03/09/2006 21:08:34 Will the risk vs. reward nonsense never end? There's no such thing. PVP is very risky. Now... where's the reward? It doesn't earn you ISK in itself. It doesn't earn you sec increase, only decrease if you are the attacker and not in 0.0. Oh sure, you might get the occasional module or such as loot, if you survive to collect it. Maybe. So I find it odd that what's the risky thing you should be getting all the huge rewards from then, if the most dangerous thing, PVP, doesn't give you much rewards? Most pirates complain how expensive it is to be a pirate. Yet it's the PVPers yabbering about risk vs. reward. Go figure. So basically, since you don't earn with PVP much usually... you should have no way of earning, is that it? Just play the way you want and let others play the way they want, don't mumble nonsense about risk vs reward, that concept doesn't exist in EVE. Nerfing missions will only hurt in the long run, because it'll make such a large portion of players vanish.
Tradingjoe	Posted - 2006.09.03 21:20:00 - [38] If you join an alliance there is almost no risk to 0.0 ratting either and it pays better than missions by a long shot. I don't see what the big deal is, its all just a time sink, no point in making missions worthless.
Damien Smith Turbulent	Posted - 2006.09.03 21:39:00 - [39] Originally by: Tehyarec Edited by: Tehyarec on 03/09/2006 21:08:34 Will the risk vs. reward nonsense never end? There's no such thing. PVP is very risky. Now... where's the reward? It doesn't earn you ISK in itself. It doesn't earn you sec increase, only decrease if you are the attacker and not in 0.0. Oh sure, you might get the occasional module or such as loot, if you survive to collect it. Maybe. Those who love their PvP don't consider their reward to be financial. We fight for the rush of combat itself. In our case the risk IS the reward. As long as I have enough isk to keep me with a ship or two to fight with I'm happy. There's still risk vs reward, just as those who expect to be able to farm missions, belt rats, and roids for zero risk should have to face. If you want the rewards, don't whine about the risk. ----------- Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie) Mission running carebears drop good loot. Probe one out today! I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus +=♥ - Immy
mechtech	Posted - 2006.09.03 21:42:00 - [40] I bet sec will be tied to kali and factional warfare. If not, bad decision by CCP.
Futher Bezluden Minmatar Red Dwarf Mining Corps Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.09.04 00:04:00 - [41] Original Post Captains log. Stardate... damn chronometer is all screwed up. Must be a known bug in the "Dragon" Interface. Killed 31 Angel Cartel Battleships for the Republic in the last week. Netted me about 50 million in agent bonuses and bounty payments. Security status is still hovering around -3.0 after podding a non-negative 5 pirate who just got on my last nerve; was pretty close to being able to fly to see my ex-girlfriends' stripping act in Rens. Now I have to have find someone to record it and get the holos out to where I am. There must be something wrong with Concord's data management division. Those sob's notify the amarr, ammatar, caldari, mordus, angels, and just about every other entity the Republic sends me in after that I am blowing up their assets, but aren't giving me security status gains on about 90% of the "Pirate" (Angels/Mordus/Sanshas/Bloods) Battleships I turn into scrap. Some lame excuse that deadspace emitters, natural fields, and complex sensor thingumajigies interfere with recording the kills accurately. Really? Concord sends me bounty isk after every kill, but can't derive security status gains after I report to a station/agent? Buddy in 0.0 killed 15 Sansha battleships over the last 14 hours, he's reported an overall gain of .85 to his security status. How the hell does Concord, with no contacts in 0.0 space, get the intel reported accurately? I just don't get it. If I were freelancing in 0.0, I'd be rid of this -3.0 security status in 3 days, but I hate 0.0. Now Concord and most of the empires say they will be installing the universally accepted interface dubbed "Kali" when it's ready for deployment and that it has even more issues retrieving kill data from computers that were in deadspace areas during combat. A confidential source says because of more deadspace emitters on the blackmarket, almost 100% of the factions will be using them to defeat rapid response teams. It also means that they will have a much harder time tracking kills and granting security status gains -even though they will be able to give bounty isk. Concord, straighten out your software. Just because I am not out in the most lawless areas of space doesn't mean I'm not doing my part to keep my particular empire free of pirates. If you can sort out my bounty iskies, you can certainly update my sec status like you do for the people out in 0.0 that you have no contact with. ofc/ Seems that prior to Dragon patch, I was getting frequent sec status gains for killing off mordus and other "pirate" battleships for the Republic. Please un-nerf this and stop punishing players for not going to 0.0 to get ganked by bubble blobs. With the sovereignty changes it's going to be even more difficult to get out to 0.0 space and improve sec status. This is going to empty low-sec space of all but the most dedicated residents leaving those who don't really care two-bits about their sec status. THUKKER
Neon Genesis Gallente Hooligans Of War	Posted - 2006.09.04 00:56:00 - [42] I scoff at the notion of being 'forced into 0.0'. Leave 0.5 and see the other 99% of the game you're paying for?
Taaii Caldari GTE Corp	Posted - 2006.09.04 01:08:00 - [43] Some of you lot need to STFU with this epeen 0.0 BS. If people want to play in 0.5+, what gives you the right to post your degrading spew at them. Does it make you sexually aroused or something? Heres a few facts about 0.0 and 0.5+ Being in 0.0 wont lose your virginity Being in 0.0 doesn't make you look cool to women Being in 0.0 doesn't make you look sexy Being in 0.0 won't get you a girl friend Being in 0.0 doesn't make you tough! Its a bloody PC game. Stop waving your flacid epeen about fking 0.0 and let people who want to mission in 0.5+, mission! The nerfs going into 0/5+ are pretty lame tbh. While i agree low sec missioning should be more rewarding. You want people to come to 0.0? Well upgrade the low sec incentives to mission there, not downgrade 0.5+ missions. That only causes alot of friction.
Futher Bezluden Minmatar Red Dwarf Mining Corps Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.09.04 01:20:00 - [44] Originally by: Neon Genesis I scoff at the notion of being 'forced into 0.0'. Leave 0.5 and see the other 99% of the game you're paying for? I live in low-sec and have -3 sec status. I do missions and pvp. Wouldn't you be ticked if you only got sec gains from mission running and not 0.0 npc bs's? Too often it comes down to "**** you carebears, go to 0.0" without anyone thinking for even a split-second how other players play EVE. Look at the map sometime and the number of players in high-sec, low-sec, then 0.0 space. THUKKER
xeom Veto.	Posted - 2006.09.04 01:22:00 - [45] Originally by: Taaii Some of you lot need to STFU with this epeen 0.0 BS. If people want to play in 0.5+, what gives you the right to post your degrading spew at them. Does it make you sexually aroused or something? Heres a few facts about 0.0 and 0.5+ Being in 0.0 wont lose your virginity Being in 0.0 doesn't make you look cool to women Being in 0.0 doesn't make you look sexy Being in 0.0 won't get you a girl friend Being in 0.0 doesn't make you tough! Its a bloody PC game. Stop waving your flacid epeen about fking 0.0 and let people who want to mission in 0.5+, mission! The nerfs going into 0/5+ are pretty lame tbh. While i agree low sec missioning should be more rewarding. You want people to come to 0.0? Well upgrade the low sec incentives to mission there, not downgrade 0.5+ missions. That only causes alot of friction. Get some help quick.I don't even know how you would connect any of that stuff to whats being talked about here. Is it me or are the post on the forums becoming stupider and stupider every post? This goes to Taaii and the op. CCP where are our t2 shield power relays?
Taaii Caldari GTE Corp	Posted - 2006.09.04 01:35:00 - [46] Edited by: Taaii on 04/09/2006 01:35:28 Originally by: xeom Is it me or are the post on the forums becoming stupider and stupider every post? You mean are people like me tired of hearing about how much 0.5+ mission runners suck compared to low sec runners? The way alot of people post about it, its made out to be some cool kid place. The same lame mentality that went on at school.
Cmdr Sy EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.09.04 01:46:00 - [47] I am disappointed to hear this, but frankly only on account of the fact that sometimes I find it useful to kill someone in low sec, and with missions being my main source of income, the sec status repair comes naturally. If sec status increases from missions are being nerfed just like NPC BS bounties were a while back, then that is an inconvenience. However, it simply means that one day I may go blinking red and move Empire war duties over to my alt. And I am a regular 0.0 resident too. So it will neither 'force' me into low sec, as I am already there, nor save any noobs from me.
Moelann	Posted - 2006.09.04 02:08:00 - [48] Originally by: Taaii Edited by: Taaii on 04/09/2006 01:35:28 Originally by: xeom Is it me or are the post on the forums becoming stupider and stupider every post? You mean are people like me tired of hearing about how much 0.5+ mission runners suck compared to low sec runners? The way alot of people post about it, its made out to be some cool kid place. The same lame mentality that went on at school. /agreed For $15.00 a month we all get to play the game we like as long as it is within the EULA/ToS. An expression I find extremely irritating is, "playing the game as it is intended." According to whom? If I want to run missions in high-sec, who the f*** are you to tell me that I suck and what I have to say doesn't matter?
Infinity Ziona Feet Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.04 02:20:00 - [49] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 03/09/2006 19:13:04 Actually its kind of twisted that you can go kill someone a few times in low sec, then run a few missions for caldari navy and all is dandy. :) Does mass murdering a factions player civilians in 0.0 with 0 penalty and then killing npcs in 0.0 with great standing increases make sense? One of the biggest problems in EvE and one that if fixed will truly take people into 0.0 space, is that there is no penalty for killing people in 0.0. If you got a faction, sec status or kill rights penalty for killing in 0.0 then a large portion of the weekend warriors who still carebear in empire when they're not murdering in 0.0 will stop killing. That would make 0.0 more accessible and remove some of the certainty in peoples minds that going to 0.0 will be instant death, which is true in many cases. The only time you should receive no penalty in 0.0 is where you have claimed sov of a system and can choose because of your hard work your own rules of engagement. Of course there would need to be exceptions such as when you are at war, or when a player is NPC corped or alliance level standings have been set. As for the OP, standings should only increase in Empire systems, there should be no standing in 0.0 at all unless the above suggestions are in place. The higher the system, and the higher the npc killed there, the more standing increase you should get. Oveur has a very strange idea of PvP and risk vs reward. I have lost more, worked harder and risked more to missions then I have in 4 years of Player vs Player PvP. Click Me
xeom Veto.	Posted - 2006.09.04 02:36:00 - [50] Originally by: Taaii Edited by: Taaii on 04/09/2006 01:35:28 Originally by: xeom Is it me or are the post on the forums becoming stupider and stupider every post? You mean are people like me tired of hearing about how much 0.5+ mission runners suck compared to low sec runners? The way alot of people post about it, its made out to be some cool kid place. The same lame mentality that went on at school. You mean the whole premise of the game? Risk Vs reward? Guess what for all that reward their should equal risk.Nothing about KOOL KIDS PLACE AND HIGH SCHOOLZ.Get over yourself. CCP where are our t2 shield power relays?
Taaii Caldari GTE Corp	Posted - 2006.09.04 02:55:00 - [51] I've got nothing to get over. Just because some people prefere to mission run in high sec, people think they have some god given right to jump all over them and call them carebears, newbs etc. Im not on about ISK vs Reward. Im on about certain individuals who throw their epeen, 0.0 im soo cool and the OMGZNEWB bull sh*t. Its pretty repetative to say the least...
Infinity Ziona Feet Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.04 03:00:00 - [52] Originally by: xeom Originally by: Taaii Edited by: Taaii on 04/09/2006 01:35:28 Originally by: xeom Is it me or are the post on the forums becoming stupider and stupider every post? You mean are people like me tired of hearing about how much 0.5+ mission runners suck compared to low sec runners? The way alot of people post about it, its made out to be some cool kid place. The same lame mentality that went on at school. You mean the whole premise of the game? Risk Vs reward? Guess what for all that reward their should equal risk.Nothing about KOOL KIDS PLACE AND HIGH SCHOOLZ.Get over yourself. There is nothing about 0.0 that is more dangerous then empire for the average ganker. In many cases its safer. Little Story I decided to declare war on an alliance, 398 people vs just myself. I inserted a spy into the biggest corporation to get names for my buddy list from their corp roster, boards and alliance chat. After my war dec was received, my spy gets a alliance mail: 'Some [Censored] has declared war on us again. Its a single player corporation, CEO is Infinity Ziona. Dont give her easy targets, when in empire move around in groups, use instas and dont go afk! If possible stay in alliance space for the duration of the war. You will be safer out here. She should get bored and cancel it if she gets no targets.' Pretty much clarifies how safe it is in 0.0 right. I have lived out there, one time for months deep in Russian Curse space, and got killed once when a gate I was jumping to malfunctioned. Its not dangerous at all except for the chokepoints. Another time I joined an alliance because my Sec Status had me KOS to all. I sat out in Stain for an entire month chaining triple spawns, never saw a single enemy except at the chokepoints, then I quit cause I had repaired my status and went back to empire. Using alliances and giving nothing back FTW. Low sec empire however, thats a different story. Im operating there at the moment in a recon, pirates are very frequent and I encounter and kill miners on a daily basis Click Me
Chiron Typhon Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2006.09.04 03:22:00 - [53] Originally by: Brolly I can see things probably getting worse in the future, but that doesn't mean it wont get better. Yes, missions are going down the pan in may respects, bounties are getting worse, loot is apalling and to add insult to injury, they are also getting harder. It seems the rubbish ideas of 'risk versis reward' (yes, you do that every time in a mission) is going a little too far, also the delusional idea that empire should offer little in the way of making isk, plus the idea that everyone should PVP and go to low sec seems to be getting more intense every patch. As a dedicated missioner I have to disagree with a lot of this. Sec increases have always been miniscule ever since I started doing them almost 9 months ago. It's just the same today. Low sec ratting has always gotten me far better results than missioning for sec standing. On the flip side, factional earnings from missions are quite high, both in terms of +standing with NPC corps and +LP. Yes interesting named loot is pretty much non-existant in missions, this is offset by the fact that high level missioning is very easy money. The bounties are quite reasonable and the money you can make selling LP offers is good. I have T2 ships and hangars full of gear all paid for by missioning, I don't feel poor. I know I don't make as much as the 0.0 ratting or complex guys but that's completely acceptable. As for the risk/reward thing it's GOOD that missions are getting harder, as they stand they are mind-numbingly easy. I have NEVER once lost a ship doing missions ... ever. Not even when I was a complete newbie with only 200k SP doing doing my first Tech Secrets 3 totally unprepared. So I'd say that was pretty much zero risk for large gain ... x/0 = infinity in fact. As a missioner I would like to see missions become harder and more complex, just to keep me from getting bored. There are probably only 4-5 missions out of the whole collection that can be called genuinely hard. New and smaller by request =p "Draw them in by the prospect of gain, take them by confusion" -Sun Tzu
xeom Veto.	Posted - 2006.09.04 03:44:00 - [54] Originally by: Infinity Ziona stuff Right so a single player should pose a threat to a whole alliance.Trust me 0.0 is safer because less people play in that section of space and alliance's are very quick to upset and blob. Taaii you seem to like to cry a lot for nothing.Who are these people throwing their e-peens around saying 0.0 makes em bad***? And yes the carebear definition does fit you as you like to risk nothing.Agian you seem to cry over what the basicly premise of the game is about.If you don't like it leave.As a mission runner you add nothing to the world of eve. CCP where are our t2 shield power relays?
Ghoest	Posted - 2006.09.04 04:01:00 - [55] I run low sec lvl 4s. Its absurd to nerf them. Wherever you went - here you are.
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2006.09.04 04:13:00 - [56] Move all level 4's to lowsec kplz.
Moghydin Confederation of Red Moon Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.04 04:28:00 - [57] I'm not a mission runner, and actually, I hated doing missions due to extreme boredom, I can say though, that moving high-level agents to low-sec may look logical, you have to take into account that agents don't spread the mission runners over some large area. They usually use 3-4 systems to send ppl to. Very soon those systems will be known and camped to death by pirates, virtually making it impossible for mission runners to do missions there. Also, missions are mostly solo/small group venture, so, if large gangs will be needed to break those pirate camp, I don't think those agents will be used too often.
Infinity Ziona Feet Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.04 04:36:00 - [58] Originally by: Moghydin I'm not a mission runner, and actually, I hated doing missions due to extreme boredom, I can say though, that moving high-level agents to low-sec may look logical, you have to take into account that agents don't spread the mission runners over some large area. They usually use 3-4 systems to send ppl to. Very soon those systems will be known and camped to death by pirates, virtually making it impossible for mission runners to do missions there. Also, missions are mostly solo/small group venture, so, if large gangs will be needed to break those pirate camp, I don't think those agents will be used too often. With the change to missions recently the manufacturing and other non combat agents now give combat missions so now its possible to find agents spread over large areas of space and to avoid many of the high missionrunner / pirate systems. However once the hauling missions are reintroduced that will change. But once again, we all pay the same money to CCP, we should be allowed to choose in limited ways, how we play EvE. Not be forced to play one inferior in many peoples opinion, way. Click Me
Taaii Caldari GTE Corp	Posted - 2006.09.04 04:41:00 - [59] Edited by: Taaii on 04/09/2006 04:41:32 Originally by: xeom Originally by: Infinity Ziona stuff Right so a single player should pose a threat to a whole alliance.Trust me 0.0 is safer because less people play in that section of space and alliance's are very quick to upset and blob. Taaii you seem to like to cry a lot for nothing.Who are these people throwing their e-peens around saying 0.0 makes em bad**? And yes the carebear definition does fit you as you like to risk nothing.Agian you seem to cry over what the basicly premise of the game is about.If you don't like it leave.As a mission runner you add nothing to the world of eve. i cry over nothing tbh. I just get annoyed by people over time who think they can jump on someones back about missioning in high sec. Who are you to judge what effect i have over eve? Its peoples shtty attitude like yours that creates divides by spewing out crap like that. But yet what do you expect from a person who cant actually PvP properly and has to pirate in low sec and pray on newbies and mission runners. Sterotypical view dont you think.....
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.04 05:18:00 - [60] Originally by: The Enslaver Missions aren't even really in the spirit of what EVE is... Working for NPC's? Pfft... Like you never worked for one Recruitment

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