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Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2006.09.04 11:37:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Kuolematon on 04/09/2006 11:38:40
 Originally by: James Don
Originally by: xeom
Tell me how you playing eve on single-player mode adds anything?
After you tell me why it should?
Because in-real-life there is no lonewolfs, everyone is playing together working towards mutual goals .. oh wait 
Originally by: Tachy
Why do you care how others spend and enjoy their time - unless they break the rules set by ccp?
I am all for removing the good roids and npc from secured alliance space!
Only make them spawn as long as there's a war raging through the system where ships, pods, POS and outposts are hit and hurt. It is much to easy for NulSec carebears to get their equipment and isk. oh, and NulSec NPC kills should never give any security raise. It is NulSec for a reason.
QFT! Nerf Secure Alliance space!
They have as much "risk vs. reward" as empire people. You can get ganked in empire too... NERF ALLIANCE SPACE! Hmm, this needs it's own thread.
Unnerf Amarr!
"Just because you can utterly ruin another player's game doesn't mean that you must."
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Ilmonstre
Minmatar
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.09.04 11:38:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Kuolematon
Originally by: James Don
Originally by: xeom
Tell me how you playing eve on single-player mode adds anything?
After you tell me why it should?
Because in-real-life there is no lonewolfs, everyone is playing together working towards mutual goals .. oh wait
stop with the real life.
this game is not designed to assist the solo players some things are just alot more fun in a small group or go faster that way and thats how it is supposed to be
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Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2006.09.04 11:41:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Kuolematon on 04/09/2006 11:46:02
Originally by: Ilmonstre
stop with the real life.
this game is not designed to assist the solo players some things are just alot more fun in a small group or go faster that way and thats how it is supposed to be
Wait wait, your telling me now whats more fun and how I should have fun? Your telling me that playing with other people is *MORE* fun? Those good-for-nothing goofers, hablo-groups and loot stealers makes my game more fun?! I mean .. I have to share my bounty and loot with those goofies and enjoy it?! Pfffh, why play and share with others when you can get it ALL yourself  
Unnerf Amarr!
"Just because you can utterly ruin another player's game doesn't mean that you must."
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Kerc Kasha
Caldari
Fallout Industries
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Posted - 2006.09.04 11:54:00 -
[94]
Mission running in itself is possibly the most boring thing to ever do, I found ratting in 0.0 to be more fun then to run missions, how people managed to continuly farm missions is beyond me, then again how people manage to do nothing but mine is beyond me.
What it comes down to but is that, high sec has too much reward for its own good, it leads to inflation(look at the HAC prices for christ sake) because of this money that comes from no where and GOES NOWHERE other then into the eternal void of a mission runners wallet, which goes to another mission runners wallet when they sell their ship for a new one.
The low sec level 4 agents ain't much better either, they give little to no advantage over the high sec ones! If I ran missions I'd definately just use the high sec ones, I'd rather lose 100k a mission then have to put up with the chance of being probed out. And the only decent low sec agents that DO give out a decent reward for their risk are constantly infested by pirates so every  is avoiding it like the plague and run happily in their highsec domain.
0.0 ratting doesn't earn as much money as it deserves either! Unless your in the middle of bloody nowhere in a massive alliance where its front borders are the only places infested with pirates, and your running a 10/10 complex, thats the only real way to earn some serious money in 0.0... random belt ratting doesn't earn much, usually a hundred mil every few hours or so, depending on the kind of rat etc etc. Yes this is more then mission runners, but your constantly at risk in 0.0, even with the situation above theres still the chance of being killed, sometiems you do get lucky however.
Why risk when you can virtually the same amount of money in complete safety as you could in a complete warzone where your chance of living may be slim to none? Ofcourse the bears go for the first option, it may not earn as much but its safe.
0.0 and low sec in general needs a buff, low sec ratting is disgusting and pointless, its asking to be killed, esspecially because you'd get more money running level 2 agents in high sec. See thats the problem, no risk, all reward. You can't make the safest way to earn money earning more then the more dangerous jobs! That's just stupid.
In conclussion Low sec level 4's need a serious buff, the low sec rats too needs a buff(Maybe the occasional battleship in 0.2 -> ?, some way to give people the incentive to take a more dangerous job. While high sec level 4's should either be completely eliminated or nerfed to the point that only a true carebear would bother with them. 0.0 needs more complexes spread out and its belt rats bounties increased a bit. There needs to be an incentive to LEAVE high sec to earn money.
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.09.04 12:22:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: Tachy
[...]
You don't get it do you. 0.0 space has 2 types of risk. The first is that of the roaming gank squad. Its not worse than lowsec in that respect, indeed. Most of the time its even a lot better because people in 0.0 take the RESPONSIBILTY of cleaning space up from all hostiles and potential hostiles. If we see a pirate in 0.0, we don't log, or hide in a station. We get in a combat ship and pursue until we lose track, until we die, until we kill him, or until he leaves/logs.
Sometimes we camp logged out players for hours. That is the effort we put into keeping our little patch of 0.0 space safe. We get better security, because we work for it.
This type of risk is limited of course, you can only lose what you fly.
But then there is a second type of risk in 0.0. The risk that one day you wake up with enemy dreads pounding on your station, the gates closed off, your POSses put into reinforced. Once they take the station, they will kill off your clones there and if you leave you will never get back in. Litterally losing access to everything you have in that station. Ask Tribal Souls about that risk.....oh wait, nvm.
Yes, when there's action I have no problem with you having good ore and NPC to farm. Risk vs. reward, remember?
Where is your high risk in 0.0 in alliance space?
In the permacamped complexes? No way for others to get your ships.
In the high end ore belts? One well fitted BS and the miners have zero risk.
In systems where your alliance has the POS and outposts and all ways in camped 23/7 with roaming groups hunting down pilots who happened to break through somehow?
Where was your risk when you know exactly who's on your side in any given system?
No more risk than HighSec -> Reward cannot be better than in HighSec.
Tribal Souls died because of boredom and to their carebearing members. Just check which pilots and corps are still active in the same systems as before, but under the flag of another alliance. If you cared to follow the stuff, you'd find certain similarities to XETIC's downfall. They had hardly any defenders left when the opponents came knocking.
--*=*=*--
Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment. |
Edoard Titche
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Posted - 2006.09.04 12:25:00 -
[96]
It's a shame but it seems to happen in every mmo after the first few years. Devs start nerfing and tinkering to try and accommodate "casual" players but in the process they always alienate the core fanbase who have put them in their comfortable position in the first place
Look at SWG before the CU and the *shudder* NGE all that needed changing was the balance of the game, so that everyone didnt just use the same uber build. What did SOE do? They effectively nerfed the entire game turning it into a lame FPS that noone had ever wanted or asked for except the lame nubbins who were too lazy to put in the effort and just wanted a World of StarWars Craft.
They got their way but the price was a high one. SWG is now a bug infested ghost town and its got to the point where SOE are practically paying you to play the game, you can go for miles on any given planet in SWG and the only sign of life you'll see are SOE's paid "helpers"
Blizzard are about to drive another nail into their own coffin with the impending release of The Broken Coffee-Machine errr I mean The Burning Crusade with its planned nerf of end-game raiding ( the only reason to even bother with the game) Again blizzard's justification is that they want to balance the game for "casual" players who never get to see end-game.
The truth is however that WoW is far from a challenging game with little skill required by its players ( thats why all the 14 year olds are running around with full epics) Those who don't particiapate in end-game either have no interest in it or are again too lazy to put in the effort (OMGZ GIF FREE EPIX PLZ!)
For pete's sake these are MMO's you're not supposed to be able to complete them in a week! If people want that they should just stick to the myriad of console FPS's and Platform games already on the market, why ruin our enjoyment?
It's not as if there are really a lot of quality MMORPG's to choose from in the first place and those that are around are being constantly nerfed by dev's and the management holding their leashes. Success causes them to lose sight of what made their game popular in the first place all they are really interested in is making more and more money. The only way to get the green is to make games that all the kids will like and that mom and dad will set up the direct debit for..
EVE is suffering a death of a thousand cuts. I implore CCP, as the developer of the only MMO left with real substance, come to your senses before it is too late. SWG should have taught you that we will vote with our feet if we feel betrayed and all you will be left with are 14 year olds who have no loyalty and will simply jump ship as soon as a more shiny toy is put in front of them
Just a word to the wise CCP, I just hope this doesn't fall on deaf ears...
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Rick Dentill
Lynx Frontier Inc.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.04 12:43:00 -
[97]
It was kind of hard to follow the OP, partly because I have an eye infection or somesuch .
It is mentioned above but I will repeat. The people most hurt by a decrease in sec from missions is people who engage in "illegal" activity, i.e. piracy and such. The only reason you need a really high sec is for kicks as a mission runner. I have a sec of 5.186, and in many ways I feel it went up way too fast once I started doing lvl 4s. I know someone who went from -9 to above -2 in only a few of weeks doing ratting so i think in general it is all too fast. I say nerf it!
As for trying to force people to 0.0 I say go for it. I have been in 0.0 for a month now on and off and no one has taken pot shots at me at all. Even so, CCP are not forcing people into 0.0 they are just making more benefits to those who do go there. I know I have only been here for a small percentage of my time in EVE, but in truth I can't believe I waited so long. Now if they could only make outposts refine at 50% I would be 100% content.
_______
http://x-universe.kiwi.nu/page.php?id=dd |
Tachy
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Posted - 2006.09.04 12:51:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Rick Dentill
It was kind of hard to follow the OP, partly because I have an eye infection or somesuch.
It is mentioned above but I will repeat. The people most hurt by a decrease in sec from missions is people who engage in "illegal" activity, i.e. piracy and such. The only reason you need a really high sec is for kicks as a mission runner. I have a sec of 5.186, and in many ways I feel it went up way too fast once I started doing lvl 4s. I know someone who went from -9 to above -2 in only a few of weeks doing ratting so i think in general it is all too fast. I say nerf it!
As for trying to force people to 0.0 I say go for it. I have been in 0.0 for a month now on and off and no one has taken pot shots at me at all. Even so, CCP are not forcing people into 0.0 they are just making more benefits to those who do go there. I know I have only been here for a small percentage of my time in EVE, but in truth I can't believe I waited so long. Now if they could only make outposts refine at 50% I would be 100% content.
You need a high SR for good results when you're using the refineries at DED and Concord stations. SR is linked to the Concord Corp and thus their faction.
You lose SR too when you hunt down pirates in LowSec that aren't at -5.0 or lower SR.
ccp is removing more and more content from HiSec&LowSec and builds more and more content in NulSec.
--*=*=*--
Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment. |
Chequrself
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:27:00 -
[99]
The more I read this thread the more it occurs to me that noone ever says "Oh by the way, the area that I use to make money is not balanced within the scope of the game best we nerf it!". It is always sour grapes about how unbalanced somebody else's pet area is.
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.04 14:03:00 -
[100]
More comprehensive thinking about how much reward certain areas/activities should have might be in order. Then there is a secondary consideration, scarcity.
I.e. a -1.0 sec system nets maybe 35m per hour ratting, but only 1 or 2 people will be able to benefit from that rate. More people = lower rate. Unlike level 4 missions, where everyone gets the same high rate.
Problem I have with buffing lowsec, is that it also requires buffing a lot of 0.0 space (most of the -0.0 to -0.2 systems are really abysmal, really not better than lowsec AFAIK).
And I would rather not buff 0.0 (even though I live there 99% of my time), since I strongly believe that resources should be sufficiently scarce to breed conflict. More profitable 0.0 reduces conflict. We need scarcity in order to have something to fight over.
If anything, I would just rather nerf highsec by removing level 3 and 4 missions, and any ore beyond the 3 or 4 cheapest ones. No rats beyond 75k.
Then lowsec would be a significant step beyond that, with ores up to perhaps hedbergite (0.4-0.3)/hemorphite (0.2)/spodumain (0.1). Rats up to maybe 350k.
If you had to buff 0.0, it should be nothing more than a tiny boost to -0.0 to -0.2 systems (more spodumain and a bit of gneiss). Rats up to 500k (lightest BS spawn).
Missions really don't fit into this model. A level 4 agent could keep 100 people making lots of isk, being productive 23/7, where normally in 0.0 only 2 ratters and maybe haf a dozen miners would be happy in a -1.0 system without depleting all worthwhile ores before they respawn.
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Infinity Ziona
Feet Corporation
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Posted - 2006.09.04 15:33:00 -
[101]
Its amazing that so many people want to force other people to 'play the real game' because its 'so much more fun' then how we play.
You would think if it was 'so much more fun' they'd want to keep it all to themselves.
I guess what I am trying to say is STFU and play your game and I'll play mine. Unless you want to pay for my accounts.
Click Me
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Death Kill
Caldari
direkte
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Posted - 2006.09.04 15:36:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Sadayiel
IMHO Only a wannabe pirate who luv to gank in low sec then hide in empire, can whine about the Sec Status
Oh ok, now we get it.
So its ok by you because of 'wannabe pirates who like to gank then hide in Empire' and not because you actually had a thought through and intelligent reason?
I see.
Recruitment |
Ilmonstre
Minmatar
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.09.04 15:49:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Its amazing that so many people want to force other people to 'play the real game' because its 'so much more fun' then how we play.
You would think if it was 'so much more fun' they'd want to keep it all to themselves.
I guess what I am trying to say is STFU and play your game and I'll play mine. Unless you want to pay for my accounts.
did we hurt your feelings.
then please do not be so negative
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Infinity Ziona
Feet Corporation
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Posted - 2006.09.04 16:04:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Ilmonstre
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Its amazing that so many people want to force other people to 'play the real game' because its 'so much more fun' then how we play.
You would think if it was 'so much more fun' they'd want to keep it all to themselves.
I guess what I am trying to say is STFU and play your game and I'll play mine. Unless you want to pay for my accounts.
did we hurt your feelings.
then please do not be so negative
Not being negative at all. I am telling you to mind your own business with regards to my playstyle and play the game the way you like WITHOUT ME. Because I have NO DESIRE TO PLAY WITH YOU.
If you dont like that, find somebody elses shoulder to cry on, mine is not available.
Is that clear, I capitalized it to assist your understanding.
Click Me
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Futher Bezluden
Minmatar
Red Dwarf Mining Corps
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.09.04 17:11:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Futher Bezluden on 04/09/2006 17:13:44
You know what, screw it. Let all the sec gains from missions vanish. Absolutely eliminate sec gains unless the player goes killing bs's in 0.0. This will virtually empty low-sec space allowing the 0.0 alliances and pirates to have dominance of low-sec space. Just think of how ******* boring it will be when you don't have anyone to play with. Bummer, back to playing with yourself.
How about on September 9, 1200 evetime, every single player in high-sec meet up at the entrances to 0.0 space. I am sure we can get 400 people at every entrance to 0.0 space. At 1400 hours, we can all go npc'ing in 0.0 in 400 player gangs to get our sec status gains. CCP wants everyone out in 0.0 so lets do it. All the 0.0 pvp'ers who really are the only ones who count want everyone out in 0.0 because "It's how EVE is suppose to be played." So why not cave into the minority opinion.
Well, that won't make "real" EVE players out of us. We need to go a step further.
How about after the 0.0 invasion, with our +5 sec status and fat wallets, we all meet up in Amamake on September 10, 1200 evetime, set clones for amamake and completely giving up our integrity to a small minority, do a 20000 player gankfest. Doing the 0.0 thing only makes us real players in the eyes of one group, we need to be total sychophants and cave into the pirates who think their way of playing EVE is the only one that matters.
We lowly carebears are just whiners and complainers who never, ever contribute anything to EVE unless we are 0.0 players or pirates. We simply don't count if we don't do this. Then maybe CCP will listen and not side with the 0.0 players and pirates.
NOT
Please restore sec status gains from missioning.
THUKKER
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Buster Gonads
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Posted - 2006.09.04 17:16:00 -
[106]
Originally by: The Enslaver
Missions aren't even really in the spirit of what EVE is... Working for NPC's? Pfft...
Lol, says the guy with 9 accounts for research agent whoring.
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ParMizaN
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.09.04 17:19:00 -
[107]
Lvl 4 agents should not be in high sec anyway..
sig edited for lack of pink really
PINK -eris
Pink is overrated, yellow is the new pink - Xorus
XORUS!!1 HEATHEN KILLKILLKILLKILLKILL - Immy |
Godar Marak
Amarr
Return Of Red Dawn
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Posted - 2006.09.04 17:31:00 -
[108]
Originally by: ParMizaN
Lvl 4 agents should not be in high sec anyway..
Based on......
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Cattraknoff
Caldari
Sha Kharn Corp
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.04 17:36:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Godar Marak
Originally by: ParMizaN
Lvl 4 agents should not be in high sec anyway..
Based on......
Risk vs. Reward
No risk, all reward. Be glad you have something like lvl 4 missions in almost completely risk-free space 
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Godar Marak
Amarr
Return Of Red Dawn
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Posted - 2006.09.04 17:38:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Godar Marak on 04/09/2006 17:38:57
Originally by: Cattraknoff
Originally by: Godar Marak
Originally by: ParMizaN
Lvl 4 agents should not be in high sec anyway..
Based on......
Risk vs. Reward
No risk, all reward. Be glad you have something like lvl 4 missions in almost completely risk-free space
In other words a narrow minded opinion then?
edit : I be glad what now? Id rather mine bistot in xetic spoace than do lv4 missions tbh. For the record I do neither.
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Auldare
Soundless Storm
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Posted - 2006.09.04 17:59:00 -
[111]
When I need isk i do lvl4 missions, AND I feel they need nerfed. The isk you can make for them is way too much for this one factor.
You dont need anyone else to do them for a good isk/hour ratio. CCP have stated time and time again that their vision for eve is a game where players interacting together is it's one defining feature.
This is why CCP add things to try and make 0.0 more appealing
It doesn't take to be on long each day to help establish connections and network within eve, all it takes is social skills. Missions right now is a cancer on eve and this vision, It may attract a larger player base but it's dropping it's quality.
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Death Kill
Caldari
direkte
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Posted - 2006.09.04 18:04:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Death Kill on 04/09/2006 18:04:28
Originally by: Auldare
When I need isk i do lvl4 missions, AND I feel they need nerfed. The isk you can make for them is way too much for this one factor.
You dont need anyone else to do them for a good isk/hour ratio. CCP have stated time and time again that their vision for eve is a game where players interacting together is it's one defining feature.
This is why CCP add things to try and make 0.0 more appealing
It doesn't take to be on long each day to help establish connections and network within eve, all it takes is social skills. Missions right now is a cancer on eve and this vision, It may attract a larger player base but it's dropping it's quality.
You make ALOT more rating in 0.0 than from lv4 missions.
If you got the skills, you can warp from belt to belt and wtfpwn any spawn without having to warp out.
The same cant be said for lv4 missions though.
Also, missions already got nerfed a while back, not just loot but also bountys. The ones that now are calling for lv4 missions to be nerfed are the ones that mission *****d a year back or so when lv4's were teh uber.
Recruitment |
Gierling
Gallente
Celestial Fleet
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.04 18:07:00 -
[113]
Go to 0.0 young man!
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Auldare
Soundless Storm
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Posted - 2006.09.04 18:08:00 -
[114]
Yes you make more isk 0.0 ratting.
Taking into account having to establish contact with a 0.0 alliance to allow you to rat, or help with other people to secure your own area within 0.0 this is acceptable.
Lvl4 missions you need no-one to help you and still do them effectively.
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Death Kill
Caldari
direkte
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Posted - 2006.09.04 18:14:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Auldare
Taking into account having to establish contact with a 0.0 alliance to allow you to rat
Yes, and this is quite the challenge isnt it?
Recruitment |
Auldare
Soundless Storm
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Posted - 2006.09.04 18:16:00 -
[116]
It's no challenge done it plenty of times myself. but at least it took encountering another eve player
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Auldare
Soundless Storm
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Posted - 2006.09.04 18:31:00 -
[117]
If CCP found a way of making lvl4 missions need a group of people to complete them like they were intended to be in their first conception I have no problem with all their goodness, heck even boost them a bit.
But make it that to get all the benefits there has to be some sort of binding contract signed between agent and player corperation. Heck that would really add some life to eve...
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Death Kill
Caldari
direkte
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Posted - 2006.09.04 18:32:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Cattraknoff
Most 0.0 corps/alliances don't let people npc all day. They make you fight, mine sometimes, whatever. Most people who don't contribute more than their 10% npc tax don't last very long.
Agent who...farmers, on the other hand, don't have those problems
Its not hard, you can even rat while waiting for a fleet to assemble. To claim that (to put it blutnly) that you cant npc until you get rich in an alliance is false.
Recruitment |
Death Kill
Caldari
direkte
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Posted - 2006.09.04 18:33:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Auldare
It's no challenge done it plenty of times myself. but at least it took encountering another eve player
So if a pair of guys, or a group of people do lv4 missions together because they think its fun, they are not encountering other players?
Recruitment |
Auldare
Soundless Storm
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Posted - 2006.09.04 18:36:00 -
[120]
Added a post while you were writing yours it looks Death about group work. working with people on a lvl4 mission is great and i honestly applaud people who do, if all lvl4 missions were done this way.... well read my above post
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