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Nerfing the mission player again

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Mini newswire	Posted - 2006.09.03 17:28:00 - [1] So the devs have decided that mission runners need to be nerfed yet again. Their official response to a petition about where is my sec gain from the missions ive been doing was. The new deadspace missions are going to give out less sec gain and in time this will stop altogether. So how I see it is you want to pvp and lose some sec rating because either a pirate is not wanting to go -5 or your friend is being thieved and you cant fire on him because you will lose sec status. Gaining it back means you have to fly to 0.0 to get it up in a sensible time. What is the point in the CCP you seem to keep wanting to push people who dont want to go to 0.0. Mission loot is nerfed basic items from a bs kill in low sec no sec gain what next force all agents to 0.0 so that the devs who fly in 0.0 have more carebear mission runner to shoot at. CCP stop this nonsense before you break the game anymore. Already you are making enemies of your player base with the changes you are forcing on them. BM's, gate queue, massive lag and server issues. Just because CCP feel everyone should go to 0.0 doesnt mean you should force them and break the game. Mission running fixes sec rating before let it stay that way or Im sure a lot more players will be unhappy again at CCP.
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.03 17:33:00 - [2] If its true, then its incredible lame. Recruitment
Brolly Caldari The Department of Justice	Posted - 2006.09.03 17:43:00 - [3] I can see things probably getting worse in the future, but that doesn't mean it wont get better. Yes, missions are going down the pan in may respects, bounties are getting worse, loot is apalling and to add insult to injury, they are also getting harder. It seems the rubbish ideas of 'risk versis reward' (yes, you do that every time in a mission) is going a little too far, also the delusional idea that empire should offer little in the way of making isk, plus the idea that everyone should PVP and go to low sec seems to be getting more intense every patch. Maybe this is why most players only hang about for 7 months (I think content patches come every 6-7 months). I'm not saying that this is the sole reason subscribers are fleeting off, it would just be nice to have a little consistency in this game.
Sadayiel Caldari Tropical Killer Bananas	Posted - 2006.09.03 17:46:00 - [4] Originally by: Mini newswire The new deadspace missions are going to give out less sec gain and in time this will stop altogether. So how I see it is you want to pvp and lose some sec rating because either a pirate is not wanting to go -5 or your friend is being thieved and you cant fire on him because you will lose sec status. Gaining it back means you have to fly to 0.0 to get it up in a sensible time. Read it carefully, tought on wich that imply and now answer me. 1) What you get with higher sec status.... Now 2 days later you will rush to post about how lame it's a guy who just suicide ganked you in high sec and so? Seriously STOP whinning, CCP DOES NOT force ppl to go 0.0 just protect the little empire whiners, and mess up ppl with LOW SEC status, but Omigosh!! the trouble is that pvpers, that lose their sec status ganking in empire, need to hunt bigger rats to get status than just run missions and then get back easily to their normal gank deeds? seems now ppl just cry and whine before even think or realize the full situation. Banana's 4tw - Xorus
Mini newswire	Posted - 2006.09.03 17:58:00 - [5] Originally by: Sadayiel Originally by: Mini newswire Seriously STOP whinning, CCP DOES NOT force ppl to go 0.0 just protect the little empire whiners, and mess up ppl with LOW SEC status, but Omigosh!! the trouble is that pvpers, that lose their sec status ganking in empire, need to hunt bigger rats to get status than just run missions and then get back easily to their normal gank deeds? seems now ppl just cry and whine before even think or realize the full situation. Here we go again with the fanboys. I didnt say that someone who ganks is a problem as it is the same problem for them. Killing rats in belts in low sec doesnt improve your sec rating fast enough so the only way to do it now is to go to 0.0 and find the bs spawns. I wish the fan boys/girls would stop filling the forums with unconsrtuctive comments on peoples worries. Ive been in game with my main since beta. Dont play him anymore got as far as I wanted with him so I play this guy. Ive been around the block a few times and the devs are losing touch with the player base and the game. Is it lame that the sec gain will all go from missions yes of course it is. Why do CCP pick on the missioners so much? And if you are a pirate and think this isnt going to effect you. We many pirates have to fix their sec rating and many do it with missions so before you flame and add unconstructive STOP Whining in the forums think about how you repair sec status and then worry about where CCP are taking this game
Trahern Twrgadarn	Posted - 2006.09.03 18:06:00 - [6] Edited by: Trahern Twrgadarn on 03/09/2006 18:06:18 Originally by: Mini newswire Why do CCP pick on the missioners so much? It's not so much picking on imho, but finding a reasonable balance....hence the changes every few moths
Hephaesteus Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.03 18:07:00 - [7] Kind of ironic if you ask me. If CCP nerf the standing increase you get from missions. Surely players will pvp less because they cannot rebuild the sec status as fast? ----------------------------------------------- Knowing all, when all is unknown.
Dollar Menu	Posted - 2006.09.03 18:10:00 - [8] I certainly do not agree with all of these said nerfs but..... 'Some' nerfs do make sense. There are far too many people farming the Agents and there is, (in most cases), no risk to these farmers. CCP should move more agents out into very low security or 0.0 space. As missions are now.... You face very little risk for little reward. Missions are so easy, they are nothing more than a time sink. CCP needs to make missions much more difficult and give better rewards. Maybe CCP should introduce LvL5 Agents now. All of these changes to missions and they never bother to give us LvL5 Agents.
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.03 18:11:00 - [9] Originally by: Sadayiel basically rubbish lol you muppet, try to acutally counter the OP with an actual argument not just lame trolling Recruitment
Peekaboo Kaboom	Posted - 2006.09.03 18:14:00 - [10] why do CCP have to constantly change everything stop this: must change feeling plz... you will break your own game ffs damnit. ______________________________

Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.03 18:16:00 - [11] I wonder if the character sheet will change....again. Wonderful new content! I liked the old character sheet better tbh, the one that didnt clog up 30% of the screen. Recruitment
Mini newswire	Posted - 2006.09.03 18:29:00 - [12] Originally by: Dollar Menu I certainly do not agree with all of these said nerfs but..... 'Some' nerfs do make sense. There are far too many people farming the Agents and there is, (in most cases), no risk to these farmers. CCP should move more agents out into very low security or 0.0 space. As missions are now.... You face very little risk for little reward. Missions are so easy, they are nothing more than a time sink. CCP needs to make missions much more difficult and give better rewards. Maybe CCP should introduce LvL5 Agents now. All of these changes to missions and they never bother to give us LvL5 Agents. ] I agree with some of this too. Missions are easily farmed. CCP had said that missions done in low sec would get better rewards than in high sec. This isnt the case you still get basic mods from a bs in low sec Ive even had 150mm rail guns drop from bs's. The loot tables seem to not be right. Making lvl5s and moving them to 0.0 is fine as well. But that still doesnt fix the problem of sec rating. Lvl5s go to 0.0 its still puching people out to low sec. Rewards might be good but if they dont fix the loot tables it will just be a lvl4 mission that u will have to do with a couple of friends. Bit like complexes really. But your points are valid and I agree some of the farming is easy work. Still beleive the sec rating nerf on missions sucks. It will make a lot of customers unhappy I feel.
Samirol Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.09.03 18:50:00 - [13] missions in high sec are relatively low risk for their reward, in low sec, they should have massive rewards to compensate. You can go to one of the non-hub low sec mission running places as well, and...i dunno...look in local?
BurnHard	Posted - 2006.09.03 18:55:00 - [14] imho missions should be randomly generated, say, given a parameter "t", when t approaches zero the difficulty is low but so is the reward. As t approaches 1, the difficulty becomes almost impossible, but the rewards are huge. CCP kind-of want to hand-craft each mission with witty agent reparte and annoying deadspace locations, rather than just generate them on the fly, with more controllable levels of difficulty. It's a simple content problem: the more missions you do, the easier they become to you. So others watching from their low sec gate camps cry "they are too easy!". Well, I've had a few BS pop in Level 4's getting to know how to do them. They weren't easy then. They are now. So the missions need to become more difficult, automatically, rather than be static as they seem to be. Honestly, if I had a pound for every less than wise design decision in Eve.......
Bosie	Posted - 2006.09.03 18:56:00 - [15] Abou time, Eve is all about risk vs reward and quite frankly there is very little risk running missions in empire and a lot of reward. Stick all them high quality and level agents in low sec please, at least then we might get some traffic and a market out here. Bosie. "There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is ENGLAND." ...Winston
Pestillence Revelations Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.03 19:03:00 - [16] I do missions in lowsec. Worlds collide has never given me sec status increases since it's inception. I sort of agree with the OP.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.03 19:09:00 - [17] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 03/09/2006 19:13:04 Actually its kind of twisted that you can go kill someone a few times in low sec, then run a few missions for caldari navy and all is dandy. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Ather Ialeas Amarr	Posted - 2006.09.03 19:13:00 - [18] I've recently started doing missions again (to get some start-up iskies for my alt) and I've noticed that a lot of lvl3:s have had some sort of change. Basically they're harder (which is a good thing) and the rewards are either odd (two Bantams, umm yay?) or crap (3 WCS from lvl3??). As for standings, I gained a whopping 0.3sec during my missionrunning with this char while I'm currently at 0.1sec with my alt which has done about 2/3 of the amount of missionrunning I've done with this one. So to sum it up, there's clearly something fishy going on in there.
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.09.03 19:17:00 - [19] And on topic, yes, I recently tried running missions to increase my sec. I failed miserably. I'm heading out to 0.0 soon. Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected]) RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.03 19:17:00 - [20] Originally by: Ather Ialeas I've recently started doing missions again (to get some start-up iskies for my alt) and I've noticed that a lot of lvl3:s have had some sort of change. Basically they're harder (which is a good thing) and the rewards are either odd (two Bantams, umm yay?) or crap (3 WCS from lvl3??). As for standings, I gained a whopping 0.3sec during my missionrunning with this char while I'm currently at 0.1sec with my alt which has done about 2/3 of the amount of missionrunning I've done with this one. So to sum it up, there's clearly something fishy going on in there. They have rewritten the missions using a new system as I understand it. They probably modified a few of the missions to make them different while they were doing that. I dont mind myself. I wouldnt mind if they were different every time you ran them. Im not much of a farmer.. im more into playing for the fun of it. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate

Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.09.03 19:17:00 - [21] Originally by: Jim McGregor Actually its kind of twisted that you can go kill someone a few times in low sec, then run a few missions for caldari navy and all is dandy. :) I'd say it's more twisted that you can make it all dandy by killing a few battleships in lawless space, but killing many times that many who are invading the safest space and threatening the people there does nothing. Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected]) RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
DrSeuss Gallente Phoenix Propulsion Labs Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.09.03 19:20:00 - [22] Originally by: Samirol missions in high sec are relatively low risk for their reward, in low sec, they should have massive rewards to compensate. This would boost Low Sec agent runners yes, but if your goal is to drive the High Sec runners to Low sec space, you need to remove the appeal of High Sec space, IE Nerf them so Low Sec attract the runners. . http://www.phoenix-labs.net Everyone knows the only true wisdom is on T-Shirts
Ather Ialeas Amarr	Posted - 2006.09.03 19:22:00 - [23] Originally by: Jim McGregor They have rewritten the missions using a new system as I understand it. They probably modified a few of the missions to make them different while they were doing that. I dont mind myself. I wouldnt mind if they were different every time you ran them. Im not much of a farmer.. im more into playing for the fun of it. I agree on that but the problem is the classic Mario dilemma; "The princess is in another castle." What I mean is that for example Pirate Invasion is currently rather wtfbbq'd -kind of mission and the reward for it just doesn't match the mission. From what I've gathered the missions are currently losing their risk&reward balance.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.03 19:26:00 - [24] Originally by: DrSeuss Originally by: Samirol missions in high sec are relatively low risk for their reward, in low sec, they should have massive rewards to compensate. This would boost Low Sec agent runners yes, but if your goal is to drive the High Sec runners to Low sec space, you need to remove the appeal of High Sec space, IE Nerf them so Low Sec attract the runners. Personally i think thats the way it should work. I would keep safe empire rewards the way they are now, but raise the rewards for low sec missions to the degree that everyone wants to do them. 4-5 times as much rewards as in empire. If you lose a few ships to pirates, you can then afford to replace them. Everybody wins. It would also create incentive for people to move out from the current empire systems. If you can make as much in 1 hour in low sec as 5 hours in safe space, then I can almost guarantee that people will try low sec life. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Mongrove Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.03 19:43:00 - [25] Originally by: Jim McGregor Personally i think thats the way it should work. I would keep safe empire rewards the way they are now, but raise the rewards for low sec missions to the degree that everyone wants to do them. 4-5 times as much rewards as in empire. If you lose a few ships to pirates, you can then afford to replace them. Everybody wins. It would also create incentive for people to move out from the current empire systems. If you can make as much in 1 hour in low sec as 5 hours in safe space, then I can almost guarantee that people will try low sec life. Most Q19 and all (except few I think) Q20 agents are in low sec. So there is already "Risk vs Reward". Besides, taken into acount the social skills, Q20 are quite interesting in the long term. Personnally I don't this idea because, agents are far too static, I mean it's too easy for gankers to known that this system is popular for runners, then they go camping/ganking 'cause runners are fit with NPC fitting full of T2/faction => easy gank, easy loot, easy money. In that system I see full reward and no risk for the "pirates".
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.03 19:48:00 - [26] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 03/09/2006 19:48:39 Originally by: Mongrove Personnally I don't this idea because, agents are far too static, I mean it's too easy for gankers to known that this system is popular for runners, then they go camping/ganking 'cause runners are fit with NPC fitting full of T2/faction => easy gank, easy loot, easy money. In that system I see full reward and no risk for the "pirates". Well of course, since the mission runners fail to adapt. How hard is it for a group of mission runners to have their pvp setup in cargo, dock at a station and switch gear? Then you may even outnumber the campers if you are a few. Or, if you get ganked while doing a mission, dont setup your ship so it has holes in the resistance at all. If you are a few people, you will finish the mission quick and easy anyway - together. The problem isnt with the game really.. its the attitude of the mission runners to avoid players. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Sadayiel Caldari Tropical Killer Bananas	Posted - 2006.09.03 19:48:00 - [27] Originally by: Death Kill Originally by: Sadayiel basically rubbish lol you muppet, try to acutally counter the OP with an actual argument not just lame trolling 1st Do not quote Words that i not typed in this post ..... 2nd The trouble is about the Op whinning on missions nerf, i do not care in any of that just i focused in the "quoted" CCP text that concern only to Security Status. So now understand that if a random guy, makes a mistake and lower his sec status, well things happens and after some time he will get the sec status back. Now the only ppl that can whine about the less Sec status gain it's wannabe pirates that like to gank in low sec then hide running missions to get back in empire wich is just lame. FYI i have 5.0 sec status, i ganked in low sec with the consequent sec lost, i never made anything bigger than lvl 3 missions, and mostly afk from time to time. And as my sig says i'm a Merc not a pirate. Banana's 4tw - Xorus
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.03 19:50:00 - [28] Edited by: Death Kill on 03/09/2006 19:51:28 Edited by: Death Kill on 03/09/2006 19:50:28 Originally by: Sadayiel 1st I talk trash ..... Now the only ppl that can whine about the less Sec status gain it's wannabe pirates that like to gank in low sec then hide running missions to get back in empire wich is just lame. My oh my, arent you teh h@rdcore-one? Quote: FYI i have 5.0 sec status, i ganked in low sec with the consequent sec lost, i never made anything bigger than lvl 3 missions, and mostly afk from time to time. And as my sig says i'm a Merc not a pirate. Yes, your kill tropical bananas And? Recruitment
The Enslaver Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.03 20:03:00 - [29] Bleh. Mission runners whining? Just remove all L4 and positive quality L3's from high sec, put them in low sec. Give them a little boost in profit, sec and LP's and leave them like it. Missions aren't even really in the spirit of what EVE is... Working for NPC's? Pfft... --------
Valan	Posted - 2006.09.03 20:06:00 - [30] Train for a carrier sell the CNR and go afk in low sec and reap the rewards.



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