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The case against Thera

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Vol Arm'OOO Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 332	Posted - 2014.12.01 15:49:42 - [1] - Quote Because I am contrarian: Eve is promoted as an open world pvp game. The antithesis of an open world pvp game is battle zones. In open world mmos where battle zones have been introduced open world pvp has greatly suffered. A battle zone is about "immediate pvp", whereas open world games typically eschew instant pvp in favor of a hunting style. When battle zones are introduced in an open world game, a significant percentage of players will abandon the open world game in favor of obtaining instant pvp. In other words, the battle zones suck the pvp out of the open world areas like a vacuum, killing open world play. Thera functions like a battle zone. Its clear purpose is to promote availability of instant pvp, i.e. you log into Thera and get fights. If players are in Thera they are not, by definition, in the rest of eve living, fighting and dying. Consequently, Thera harms open world pvp in eve by removing players from systems where they would normally be living, roaming and fighting and placing them in a single location. The more Thera is a success, the more it hurts pvp in the rest of the game. After all, why should some player spend hours roaming through lowsec looking for fights when they can just log into Thera? Recently CCP devs have been hell bent on gimmicky systems such as the ESS, fatigue, the MJD, etc. . . Thera is just another of these gimmicky ideas that seem good on the surface but with serious flaws under the surface. If CCP truly wanted to promote an open world pvp play style, rather then relying on gimmicks, it would be substantially better if CCP improved lowsec and null giving players more reasons to live and fight in those area. P.S. I am aware, BTW that battle zones are typically "instanced" whereas Thera is not. The analogy is not perfect, but IMO the effect of Thera should be the same as a battle zone. I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Ned Thomas Hellbound Turkeys Alliance of Abandoned Cybernetic Rejects 310	Posted - 2014.12.01 15:53:44 - [2] - Quote People who live in Thera should be known as "Therapists". That is all. Vote Sabriz!
Lucrii Dei Vector Galactic Did he say Jump 152	Posted - 2014.12.01 15:54:28 - [3] - Quote Not really. Arena gameplay involves a specific set of rules and a specific team structure. Anyone can enter Thera and anyone can leave Thera. They can also use any and all assets at their disposable in the sub-capital bracket. Gÿå The Explorer I Gÿå The Explorer II (Coming Soon!)
Glathull Warlock Assassins 817	Posted - 2014.12.01 15:58:18 - [4] - Quote Thera is going to get out on lockdown almost immediately by someone. It won't be instant PVP at all. It will be death camped to hell. If you want to complain about insta-pvp-zones, complain about RvB. But then no one will take you seriously because everyone loves RvB. Especially B. I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Arronicus Fusion Enterprises Ltd Shadow of xXDEATHXx 1329	Posted - 2014.12.01 15:58:20 - [5] - Quote I disagree. Thera is a staging point for conflict. At first, there will be a lot of conflict in Thera, as with any other new addition to the game. Then, as the dust starts to settle, those really interested in living there will likely start to work together, finding that with teamwork, they can use Thera to dish out constant pvp to a large variety of null and lowsec targets every day, with easy access to highsec to bring in new product. Thera itself will not be the 'combat zone' or 'battle zone', Thera will evolve into the dynamic facilitator that brings more small/medium gang combat to nullsec. Will Thera be a mos eisley trading hub? I seriously doubt it. Will it be a giant combat/duel area? I seriously doubt that too, after the dust settles.
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 2296	Posted - 2014.12.01 16:02:48 - [6] - Quote Vol Arm'OOO wrote: After all, why should some player spend hours roaming through lowsec looking for fights when they can just log into Thera? The people who are out for non-consensual pvp (such as high-sec warriors) aren't going to leave for Thera, because any potential targets found within won't fit the psychological profiles (stupid, arrogant, offensive, bad with money, etc) of the targets they seek. Null dwellers won't leave for Thera because it can neither support any sort of prolonged stay financially, not is it capable of being subjected to force projection. Low-sec pirates aren't going to leave for Thera because any people found inside aren't good piracy targets, since anyone going there is most likely going to assume the worst. And finally, carebears aren't going to leave for Thera because sociopaths, CCP needs to remove pvp from EVE, Thera needs to be safe, etc etc. And that is why this project will fail in its intended goal of being some kind of lawless hub. At best, it will be a place where some people go to feel cool for a while, or maybe we'll get lucky, and it will be really convenient for travel. But I don't foresee it being any more popular than your average NPC 0.0 system, or Amamake. Of course there will be lots of pvp inside, but it won't be replacing anything. If anyone tries to hold this system in an organized manner, it will end up being something like Providence. That is to say, lol. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here: https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Reicine Ceer Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 192	Posted - 2014.12.01 16:13:43 - [7] - Quote As a notion toward what I think EVE's potential "battlezones" would be like, in comparison to what other posters have stated regarding Thera; If CCP were to introduce some form of go-to area, they would be foolish to do anything other than integrate as much as possible; as such, a battlezone in k-space would likely consist of lore-specific locations containing Incursion-style spawns of NPC ships from a particular faction within the EVE universe. On cue, NPC ships that are traditionally against said faction would then spawn in; perhaps finding the location would be as easy as warping to it from the overview, or scanning it down for tougher/etc versions, but it would likely consist of a bit of a slugfest between two opposing fleets - as the fight goes on longer, or as more people join, both sides would escalate appropriately, all the way up the scale of ships to include whatever the system can handle (think how a "feeding frenzy" starts in the ocean), with real players opting to battle for a specific side, or attack both, or maybe logibro style etc. You get the idea. Point is, I'm pretty positive that if CCP wanted to create a specific area "just for PVP", they'd make a lot more of a visual and integrated experience than simply making a big ol' system in w-space and hoping no one clamps it down within hours of it going live ;)
Doc Fury Furious Enterprises 7372	Posted - 2014.12.01 16:29:36 - [8] - Quote Ned Thomas wrote: People who live in Thera should be known as "Therapists". Grab a Kazoo, let's have a duel. Gÿ+ The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'.
Mag's the united 18253	Posted - 2014.12.01 16:34:16 - [9] - Quote Vol Arm'OOO wrote: P.S. I am aware, BTW that battle zones are typically "instanced" whereas Thera is not. The analogy is not perfect, but IMO the effect of Thera should be the same as a battle zone. Your analogy doesn't fit at all apart from there being PvP involved. You should retitle your post: The Case against Vol Arm'OOO being allowed to post. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

CCP Greyscale C C P C C P Alliance 3655	Posted - 2014.12.01 16:51:10 - [10] - Quote I am totally sold on this argument. Thera is cancelled! Next stop: deleting Syndicate and Providence.


PotatoOverdose Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS. 2563	Posted - 2014.12.01 16:52:56 - [11] - Quote CCP Greyscale wrote: I am totally sold on this argument. Thera is cancelled! Next stop: deleting Syndicate and Providence. Keep Poitot. It can be it's own region.
Vol Arm'OOO Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 332	Posted - 2014.12.01 16:53:44 - [12] - Quote Mag's wrote: Vol Arm'OOO wrote: P.S. I am aware, BTW that battle zones are typically "instanced" whereas Thera is not. The analogy is not perfect, but IMO the effect of Thera should be the same as a battle zone. Your analogy doesn't fit at all apart from there being PvP involved. You should retitle your post: The Case against Vol Arm'OOO being allowed to post. Lol troll harder. And just because Im bored - you say that analogy doesnt fit but you dont offer any examples or comments. How are they different? Battle grounds and thera have the effect of taking the limited populations of players and concentrating them, so what is the difference as it relates to open world play? I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Makari Aeron The Shadow's Of Eve TSOE Consortium 141	Posted - 2014.12.01 16:59:29 - [13] - Quote CCP Greyscale wrote: I am totally sold on this argument. Thera is cancelled! Next stop: deleting Syndicate and Providence. WELP, guess I better pack up and help move NRDS to the heart of CFC. That'll work, right? CCP RedDawn: Ugly people are just playing life on HARD mode. Personally, I'm playing on an INFERNO difficulty. CCP Goliath: I often believe that the best way to get something done is to shout at the person trying to help you. http://goo.gl/PKGDP
Vol Arm'OOO Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 332	Posted - 2014.12.01 16:59:53 - [14] - Quote CCP Greyscale wrote: I am totally sold on this argument. Thera is cancelled! Next stop: deleting Syndicate and Providence. In every open world pvp game where battle grounds were introduced the Devs were similarly myopic. None of them said lets introduce battle grounds and kill open world pvp, instead they all thought they could balance the issues and failed miserably. Im thinking of EQ2 pvp in particular, where the soe devs committed open world pvp suicide when they introduced battle grounds. Come to think of it, there are have been consistent rumors of SOE looking to acquire CCP and of CCP devs cavorting with SOE devs. Maybe you all drinking from the same koolaid? I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Leannor Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates. 22	Posted - 2014.12.01 17:02:56 - [15] - Quote A valid argument I think. But what youGÇÖre forgetting is the balance. Yes, if Thera is as you say a magnet for the PVPers, and draws them in from surroundings systems (all of the cluster), assuming of coruse thatGÇÖs what will happen, then ask yourself what will be left. By your argument what will be left behind is a void wasteland devoid of PVP containing nothing GÇª oh, wait, no, not containing nothing. ItGÇÖll contain a vast array of belts previously unmined due to PVP threat, Planetary PI not mined, eve trade not previously fully utilised. In fact, if your theory plays out, the resources extracted could cause a massive surge into the markets and deflation will kick in as everything becomes far more plentiful (might be countered by the excess resources needed for thera ship kills though). End of the story you might think? Nope. Once PVP realise thereGÇÖs actually easy kills out in the wasteland GÇª theyGÇÖll wander out there, back into the systems. ItGÇÖs fluid. And you forget EVE is not GÇÿjustGÇÖ about PVP-Combat, it is just a very vocal, emotive and visual part of the game. This is what makes EVE great, and different to any other game. The sandbox. Whatever Thera will, or wonGÇÖt be, IGÇÖm all for it. As long as it plays by the same fundamental rules of EVE; GÇ£SandboxGÇ¥. "Lykouleon wrote: STOP TOUCHING ICONIC SHIP PARTS"
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 2297	Posted - 2014.12.01 17:03:25 - [16] - Quote CCP Greyscale wrote: I am totally sold on this argument. Thera is cancelled! Next stop: deleting Syndicate and Providence. But do you guys have enough time in your busy schedules to fit that around deleting high-sec wars and ganking? I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here: https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Doc Fury Furious Enterprises 7373	Posted - 2014.12.01 17:05:56 - [17] - Quote Destiny Corrupted wrote: CCP Greyscale wrote: I am totally sold on this argument. Thera is cancelled! Next stop: deleting Syndicate and Providence. But do you guys have enough time in your busy schedules to fit that around deleting high-sec wars and ganking? Butthurt poasting detected. Gÿ+ The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'.
Arronicus Fusion Enterprises Ltd Shadow of xXDEATHXx 1330	Posted - 2014.12.01 17:06:29 - [18] - Quote CCP Greyscale wrote: I am totally sold on this argument. Thera is cancelled! Next stop: deleting Syndicate and Providence. Plz 4 delet deklein. Grr Goobs.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 6861	Posted - 2014.12.01 17:10:28 - [19] - Quote Thera will be a system of like minded capsuleers working together to create a w-space utopia for anyone to enjoy without fear of destruction. A place of rest and refuge for harassed gas miner and weary gate camper alike. A place where the elite and not so elite can have open discourse on the direction that they see New Eden heading in. Or something... Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
RonPaul Rox Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop 58	Posted - 2014.12.01 17:11:46 - [20] - Quote players could turn the singularity server into the "battlegrounds" you're describing if they wanted to. http://imgur.com/EGjYLSL

Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 4444	Posted - 2014.12.01 17:19:43 - [21] - Quote CCP Greyscale wrote: I am totally sold on this argument. Thera is cancelled! Next stop: deleting Syndicate and Providence. If only this wasn't a joke. Thera sounds like it's going to be pretty lame IMHO. Not really sure what was going though your minds when you came up with that one. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Anslo Scope Works The Blacklist. 22737	Posted - 2014.12.01 17:30:38 - [22] - Quote Grr changes. Grr new content. Grr only balance things. Grr elitism. Hue. [center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Rowells Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans 1775	Posted - 2014.12.01 17:32:59 - [23] - Quote CCP Greyscale wrote: I am totally sold on this argument. Thera is cancelled! Next stop: deleting Syndicate and Providence. let's just go ahead and skip to deletion of spaceships.
Primary This Rifter 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 274	Posted - 2014.12.01 17:33:28 - [24] - Quote Glathull wrote: Thera is going to get out on lockdown almost immediately by someone. It won't be instant PVP at all. It will be death camped to hell. If you want to complain about insta-pvp-zones, complain about RvB. But then no one will take you seriously because everyone loves RvB. Especially B. Good luck holding a 300+ AU system when you can't use anchorable bubbles. Alt of [redacted on advice from a reputable internet spaceships lawyer]
Vol Arm'OOO Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 332	Posted - 2014.12.01 17:38:32 - [25] - Quote Rowells wrote: CCP Greyscale wrote: I am totally sold on this argument. Thera is cancelled! Next stop: deleting Syndicate and Providence. let's just go ahead and skip to deletion of spaceships. Dont get me started - tiercide's emphasis on roles is anti-sandbox to its core. IMO, it would have been much better to reduce the number of hulls while increasing player freedom in how to fit the remaining hulls. I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 2299	Posted - 2014.12.01 17:40:07 - [26] - Quote It's not that the idea is bad, it's just that they could have done so much more with it in order to make it a truly unique, appreciated facet of the EVE experience. For example, Thera could have been turned into a black market hub with places to create, acquire, and trade various drugs. Special, rare components could be purchased in the station's LP shop, and the numerous wormhole connections could facilitate the system's use as drug smugglers' main staging point, by letting them avoid normal empire gate travel. Special anchorable structures for drug production could entice people to actually be in space, instead of being docked, or at wormhole entrances only. But instead, we get another half-baked feature that's good to write about, but not fun to actually use. Just like bounty-hunting, eh Greyscale? You know, the very realistic system of bounty-hunting we have in the game wherein we press one button, and let random passers-by, instead of licensed professionals, do all the work. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here: https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 4444	Posted - 2014.12.01 17:45:27 - [27] - Quote Anslo wrote: Grr changes. Grr new content. Grr only balance things. Grr elitism. Hue. More like Grr adding "new" (it's a wormhole with a station in it) space while half of the existing space isn't used because it's terribly designed. After they get it in and we have the 6 patches that will fix it and stop it breaking everything it broke, it'll be no time at all before it too is unused by all but a few. At best a single large group will hijack it with the odd roaming gang. It'll basically be about as effective as NPC null mission hubs. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
DaReaper Net 7 1391	Posted - 2014.12.01 17:46:00 - [28] - Quote If I had more people in my corp i'd go to threa and form an NRDS collective and make it a Freeport. But I don't have the man power to attempt to enforce it. Honestly, threa has all kinds of potential, but to kill open world pvp? no, I think you need to lay off the drugs man OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Indahmawar Fazmarai 3331	Posted - 2014.12.01 17:50:58 - [29] - Quote Destiny Corrupted wrote: It's not that the idea is bad, it's just that they could have done so much more with it in order to make it a truly unique, appreciated facet of the EVE experience. For example, Thera could have been turned into a black market hub with places to create, acquire, and trade various drugs. Special, rare components could be purchased in the station's LP shop, and the numerous wormhole connections could facilitate the system's use as drug smugglers' main staging point, by letting them avoid normal empire gate travel. Special anchorable structures for drug production could entice people to actually be in space, instead of being docked, or at wormhole entrances only. But instead, we get another half-baked feature that's good to write about, but not fun to actually use. Just like bounty-hunting, eh Greyscale? You know, the very realistic system of bounty-hunting we have in the game wherein we press one button, and let random passers-by, instead of licensed professionals, do all the work. You forget my all time favorite of the new bounty hunting: bountying yourself. That truly gave a new meaning to the concept of "bounty". The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 4444	Posted - 2014.12.01 17:55:45 - [30] - Quote DaReaper wrote: If I had more people in my corp i'd go to threa and form an NRDS collective and make it a Freeport. But I don't have the man power to attempt to enforce it. Honestly, threa has all kinds of potential, but to kill open world pvp? no, I think you need to lay off the drugs man So if you had the power you'd turn it into Provi? Glad to see you're thinking outside the box. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!



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