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What to do about the EIB Scandal?

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Maria Ravenwind Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.04 02:37:00 - [1] Now, I don't live on the forums, but I do spend lots of time surfing them, so please don't kill me if I get something wrong! Also, this idea may have been mentioned, it's certainly possible for me to miss it. I was thinking about the EIB Scam, and how sad it is that so many people got played, and that really, CCP cannot do anything about it unless the isk is sold out of game. But at the same time it causes a great amount of awe and admiration, for both the perpatrators and the game itself. How many games can something of this scale happen? Not only that, but it takes a different type of player to execute something of this magnitude so successfully. Anyways, on to my idea. Since CCP can't do anything about the incident, why not have it happen in game? I personally would love to see events of this sort handled by in game entities. My idea would be to have a Tribunal of sorts, involving all of the major Factions. CONCORD would arrest them, and the Tribunal would put them on trial. Of course this would be a prolonged case, over several weeks. But we would get updates on the trial through the news, and you could have ISD and Aurora handle the entire thing, including a public trial channel, and maybe even a public execution? And if not an execution, then maybe they would be sentenced to life in prison, and several months later a prison break could happen. After that, CCP could use them as characters, maybe joining a pirate Faction, or having missions against him with the Faction Navys. Of course much of the money would be returned to the victims. Personally, I think that this quality of EVE is giving the Devs, GMs, and ISD and Aurora SO much to play with and they are letting it slip! Not only would justice be served by the Tribunal by returning the money and banning the criminals, but it would add an incredible amount of depth to an already unique game. I hate my Exclamation mark!
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.09.04 02:38:00 - [2] No, returning the ISK would destroy much of the unique nature of Eve. It's a sandbox. If eople are silly enough to lose this sort of ISK, that's THEIR ball - not CCP's. //Maya
Azerrad	Posted - 2006.09.04 02:40:00 - [3] I'd much rather laugh at the suckers who got scammed. signature removed - please email us if you want to find out why (include the URL to it) - Jacques([email protected])
Korad Konstentyn Shadowdancers Digital Press	Posted - 2006.09.04 02:46:00 - [4] Edited by: Korad Konstentyn on 04/09/2006 02:46:50 so you're saying that the people behind the EIB scam should have their characters taken away from them and turned into NPC's because they did something that is perfectly in the spirit of the game? While I'd agree with having an official writeup of the event go into official EVE canon history, arbitrarily banning characters for playing the game well (yes, scams are part of the game) is pretty stupid; or did you just forget that there are real paying players behind the characters? you might not agree with what they did in-game, but it was within the EULA, and they have just as many rights as the scammed players do.
Auraurious Celtic Anarchy Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.04 02:50:00 - [5] It's not that CCP can't do anything about these scams, it's that they don't want to. CCP has repeatedly stated that scamming is part of the game, I don't think thats going to change anytime soon. _____________________________________________
Pepperami Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.09.04 02:51:00 - [6] Originally by: Azerrad I'd much rather laugh at the suckers who got scammed.
Frater Perdurabo The Ancient Illuminated Seers of Bavaria	Posted - 2006.09.04 02:56:00 - [7] Originally by: Oveur Take the EIB scam. We answered these very same questions the last time the [Insert any big scam here] was in the spotlight. We do not interfere, unless there was a violation of the EULA or Terms of Service. I mean, people transfered this guy their ISK. He then doctored screenshots and whatnot to prove his legitimacy. Then shows screenshots of how big the scam was. Hmm. We're not going to replace trust, nor are we going to fix situations where people send their money to some guy in hopes of getting it all back. Then again, we'd like to support IPOs and other such models, but that's down the road. I think that covers it.
Chiron Typhon Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2006.09.04 02:59:00 - [8] Just think of it as a valuable community service CCP have provided. People can be retarded in game and learn a valuable life lesson using ISK instead of dollars. Then in real life when they get that Nigerian Oil Minister letter in the mail or read an add about Unlimited Wealth Earning Potential!!(tm) in their inbox spam folder they aren't tempted to max out their home mortgage/break their piggy bank and mail large cheques to some postal address in some foreign land. Lesson learned, as least hopefully for some of them. New and smaller by request =p "Draw them in by the prospect of gain, take them by confusion" -Sun Tzu
Maria Ravenwind Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.04 03:04:00 - [9] Oi. I fear that my vie wof the event was misinterperted. Yes, I know that there are real people behind these characters. For heavens sake, I am one. And no, I do not disagree with what they did. Like I stated above, I find it incredible that they could do it. And it most certainly is the victim's fault for trusting them. And I know that CCP CAN do something but won't, simply because it was done with in-game tactics, not using any exploit. I was simply offering the idea that something should be done with it in game. The ideas of banning or other such ideas were just thrown out there. I don't honestly feel that they should lose their right to play. Sorry for the confusion. I hate my Exclamation mark!
violator2k5 Caldari care bears have awesome vessals	Posted - 2006.09.04 03:07:00 - [10] all i can say is lol when EMFI released her findings about the theft, i knew that it was going to turn worse especially with all the promises and new plans set out for others to read. i soon sold my shares and made a profit cos of those words i am sorry to hear that so many got robbed but there are times when you just need to step back and look at the whole picture. im sure that you guys will soon make your isk back anyway so its not a big loss after all Need A Merc? ......... Hire Chav today got 20p for bus fare m8 :P
DropZone 187	Posted - 2006.09.04 04:08:00 - [11] The scam was awesome in itself as it pointed out that Eve isn't populated with only 'smart' online players. TBH, it is a good way to balance the game as it makes those who are just in it for the greed susceptable to normal play. All those who gave their money away to an obvious scam now get to go out and earn it again only to lose it to the next scam. Beautiful cycle! I got an idea, ban forum trolls!
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.09.04 04:15:00 - [12] Originally by: DropZone 187 The scam was awesome in itself as it pointed out that Eve isn't populated with only 'smart' online players. Clearly, owning a certain share of stock has a great deal of correlation with one's intelligence. Or not. --[23] Member-- Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
Ghoest	Posted - 2006.09.04 04:16:00 - [13] CCP makes very clear the protections they offer players. The players should have been full aware they were trusting people not CCP when they threw away their money. Wherever you went - here you are.
Chiron Typhon Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2006.09.04 06:38:00 - [14] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: DropZone 187 The scam was awesome in itself as it pointed out that Eve isn't populated with only 'smart' online players. Clearly, owning a certain share of stock has a great deal of correlation with one's intelligence. Or not. Is your implication here that the ability to analyse a stock or financial offer and determine its pros, cons, risks and potential and weigh up a decision to invest or avoid is not related to intelligence and general processing and researching of information? Is it related to zodiac signs perhaps or the phases of the moon or the turn of the Great Cosmic Wheel of Karma as opposed to intelligence? I am interested in your investment theories. New and smaller by request =p "Draw them in by the prospect of gain, take them by confusion" -Sun Tzu
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.09.04 06:42:00 - [15] Dentara's scam was fully within game mechanics, and he did it, knowing full well that it was fully within the game mechanics, that CCP would not be interested in changing the outcome, and that if they even suggested it, a huge amount of the playerbase would go up in arms. He should not, and will not be punished in any way by CCP. Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected]) RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.09.04 06:44:00 - [16] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: DropZone 187 The scam was awesome in itself as it pointed out that Eve isn't populated with only 'smart' online players. Clearly, owning a certain share of stock has a great deal of correlation with one's intelligence. Or not. Well, it could be argued that giving a lot of your ISK to someone on the promise that they are a nice guy really and will give it back with interest might not be considered the smartest move I find it strange how you were so (correctly) sceptical of the Currin Trading plan, yet shot down in flames any criticism of the EIB plan. Hope? Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected]) RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Jack Flack Caldari Technomic Industries Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.04 06:49:00 - [17] This event revealed that some forum spammers who strut in their so to speak intelligence and contempt others for lack of it could in fact be so sorely in shortage of it themselves. This is for sure!
Viktor Tessela Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.04 07:08:00 - [18] I think the bigger question is, what can players do about it now? I'm all fine with scams being part of the game's mechanics, and I've yet to be scammed myself. But really - if someone jumps you in PVP, even if you're in a ship that will have no chance of surviving, chances are you're not dealing with a person who's going to kill you, then immediately zip over to empire space, log, and never play again. You'll have opportunities to get them back, to target them, harass them, etc. What do you do when you're scammed by an anonymous alt who never undocks and is used for no other purpose than scamming? Granted, in this case it's different. The person was using a (if I read right) very old, well-known, respected character with an otherwise clean slate. So it's not quite like an alt who you don't need to worry about if you really tick someone off. Still, it seems unsatisfying as far as game mechanics go that someone can con others, yet there's really no way to strike back within the game. Ah well, I guess you don't need to ALWAYS have an opportunity to strike back, right?
Chiron Typhon Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2006.09.04 07:21:00 - [19] Edited by: Chiron Typhon on 04/09/2006 07:22:24 Originally by: Viktor Tessela I think the bigger question is, what can players do about it now? I'm all fine with scams being part of the game's mechanics, and I've yet to be scammed myself. But really - if someone jumps you in PVP, even if you're in a ship that will have no chance of surviving, chances are you're not dealing with a person who's going to kill you, then immediately zip over to empire space, log, and never play again. You'll have opportunities to get them back, to target them, harass them, etc. What do you do when you're scammed by an anonymous alt who never undocks and is used for no other purpose than scamming? Granted, in this case it's different. The person was using a (if I read right) very old, well-known, respected character with an otherwise clean slate. So it's not quite like an alt who you don't need to worry about if you really tick someone off. Still, it seems unsatisfying as far as game mechanics go that someone can con others, yet there's really no way to strike back within the game. Ah well, I guess you don't need to ALWAYS have an opportunity to strike back, right? That's probably the clear weakness in the situation, there is no realistic "PvP" option for the aggrieved to strike back. In a real life version of EVE you'd be able sue (or hire an assassin) or whatever retaliatory tactic came to mind. Perhaps the Kali contracts system might allow some sort of ability to wreak financial revenge with its collateral system, I don't know. New and smaller by request =p "Draw them in by the prospect of gain, take them by confusion" -Sun Tzu
Baldour Ngarr Artemis Rising	Posted - 2006.09.04 09:06:00 - [20] Originally by: Ghoest CCP makes very clear the protections they offer players. The players should have been full aware they were trusting people not CCP when they threw away their money. At the time the scam was committed, CCP DID guarantee that players' money was safe. The forum rules have only been changed in retrospect. Otherwise, there would never even have been any complaints. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.09.04 09:19:00 - [21] Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Ghoest CCP makes very clear the protections they offer players. The players should have been full aware they were trusting people not CCP when they threw away their money. At the time the scam was committed, CCP DID guarantee that players' money was safe. The forum rules have only been changed in retrospect. Otherwise, there would never even have been any complaints. No they didn't. They never guaranteed that, there was just a bit of an ambiguous description and every time a GM was asked, it was clarified that there was zero protection. Till one GM dropped the ball. That led to a lot of *****ing (which was bad), duping of ISK (which was bad) and clarification (not change) of CCP's policy (which was good). This does not change anything to do with EIB, given that anyone with ISK in it had months and months to withdraw any ISK, should they be worried about it. Cally himself acknowledged at many points that it would be scammable and that CCP wouldn't help, but the trust persisted. No-one with an understanding of Eve who lost their ISK in EIB seriously expected to get it back from CCP, and it is ridiculous to suggest that they did. Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected]) RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Chronus26 Gallente Dark Blood Contracts	Posted - 2006.09.04 09:28:00 - [22] Let it die already, the subject has been discussed to death. Time for a new scandle of the month. ----- Move along, nothign to see here...
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.09.04 09:31:00 - [23] OK. I am beginning a new investment scheme. We will be selling liquid tryglycerides extracted from the legless members of the order Squamata. Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected]) RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.09.04 17:00:00 - [24] Originally by: Verus Potestas Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: DropZone 187 The scam was awesome in itself as it pointed out that Eve isn't populated with only 'smart' online players. Clearly, owning a certain share of stock has a great deal of correlation with one's intelligence. Or not. Well, it could be argued that giving a lot of your ISK to someone on the promise that they are a nice guy really and will give it back with interest might not be considered the smartest move I find it strange how you were so (correctly) sceptical of the Currin Trading plan, yet shot down in flames any criticism of the EIB plan. Hope? DS was skeptical of Currin? I thought he had invested in them. Sorry you can't afford a dev so you get me instead ^^ - Xorus I hear Xorus is only 50 isk an hour - Immy
Kelron Queldine The Krazed KIller Kitty Kats From Kent	Posted - 2006.09.04 17:29:00 - [25] Originally by: Maria Ravenwind Oi. I fear that my vie wof the event was misinterperted. Yes, I know that there are real people behind these characters. For heavens sake, I am one. And no, I do not disagree with what they did. Like I stated above, I find it incredible that they could do it. And it most certainly is the victim's fault for trusting them. And I know that CCP CAN do something but won't, simply because it was done with in-game tactics, not using any exploit. I was simply offering the idea that something should be done with it in game. The ideas of banning or other such ideas were just thrown out there. I don't honestly feel that they should lose their right to play. Sorry for the confusion. To get back to the point of the topic, rather than discussing a scam already discussed to death, I think there should be some in-game consequences for scamming, similar to the way there are in-game consequences for other 'illegal' activities such as attacking another player. The trouble is that due to scamming not being a fixed action in game, rather relying on communication between players, it can really have a fixed consequence such as security status drop. It would be necessary to come up with a balanced system for punishing scammers while still allowing it to be a profitable professsion for the clever ones, and it would probably require scams to be investigated by another player (maybe a new division of the ISD, for example). A lot of time would have to be spent on it to come up with a good soultion, I think. --------------------------- Signatures are for the weak.
Cattraknoff Caldari Sha Kharn Corp Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.04 17:35:00 - [26] I really thought that the whole EIB topic was interesting....for about 5 minutes. This has been done again and again, this one is just involving more isk, nothing new here, to be honest.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2006.09.04 17:53:00 - [27] Eat fish. Looking For Ventrilo Hosting
Admiral Feelgood Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.09.04 17:54:00 - [28] Personally I thought the scam was a lot more interesting before the actual theft occured. For the little while before it went off I was checking the market section a couple of times a day.
Tito Taneki German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.09.04 18:32:00 - [29] Edited by: Tito Taneki on 04/09/2006 18:35:13 Originally by: Kelron Queldine I think there should be some in-game consequences for scamming, similar to the way there are in-game consequences for other 'illegal' activities such as attacking another player. The trouble is that due to scamming not being a fixed action in game, rather relying on communication between players, it can really have a fixed consequence such as security status drop. It would be necessary to come up with a balanced system for punishing scammers while still allowing it to be a profitable professsion for the clever ones, and it would probably require scams to be investigated by another player (maybe a new division of the ISD, for example). A lot of time would have to be spent on it to come up with a good soultion, I think. Alts. You can scam without in-game consequences, if you don't care to leave that char behind. You can scam with a disposable alt, buy an older char just for that scam or do it with your main and just get a new 'main' with isk later. It's bad that you can avoid all consequences, like a bad reputation. But it can't be changed, think we have to live with it and be careful because of that. --------- Plutoinum
Hatuk	Posted - 2006.09.04 19:43:00 - [30] "I personally would love to see events of this sort handled by in game entities. My idea would be to have a Tribunal of sorts, involving all of the major Factions. CONCORD would arrest them, and the Tribunal would put them on trial." - Maria Ravenwind LOL you gotta be joking right? what to do? nothing... we all continue to play EvE, heh... and the dumbos who got scamed can atleast comfort themselves that they learned a lesson for RL. speaking of which i would like to know the age of the dumbos... they either teens in high school or younglings in colledge that didnt had some experience in RL stuff. /me sits back, rolls a fatty and takes a big laugh

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