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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Grookshank
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
38
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Posted - 2014.12.03 15:56:48 -
[31] - Quote
Aerie Evingod wrote:Ariana Industrialis wrote:Fozzie, what do you plan to do for the guys who insured their T2 hull yesterday at high insurance cost, and will now lose money on insurance because payout is now much lower ?
Practical exemple:
Insure paladin yesteday, costs 350m payout 800m.
Die in paladin today, payout 275m. Doesn't even cover the cost of the insurance, let alone any of the hull. I was under the impression the insurance rates and payout was determined when the ship was insured, not when it blew up. Nope. |
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
110
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Posted - 2014.12.03 16:05:11 -
[32] - Quote
Grookshank wrote:Aerie Evingod wrote:Ariana Industrialis wrote:Fozzie, what do you plan to do for the guys who insured their T2 hull yesterday at high insurance cost, and will now lose money on insurance because payout is now much lower ?
Practical exemple:
Insure paladin yesteday, costs 350m payout 800m.
Die in paladin today, payout 275m. Doesn't even cover the cost of the insurance, let alone any of the hull. I was under the impression the insurance rates and payout was determined when the ship was insured, not when it blew up. Nope.
Interesting...
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Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland The 99 Percent
899
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Posted - 2014.12.03 16:13:43 -
[33] - Quote
Let us, for moment, look at the Great Circle of Insurance.
Nulsec entity does moon mining and POS reactions, which are then sold in Jita. Isk is used to buy Ishtars at let us say 150M isk per unit.
Player A goes out and rats for an evening or three to buy his fleet reimbursable Ishtar.
Here is where things will begin to differ. He then insures it for 80% of the hull value at platinum level payout. This costs him 10% of the hull value. Its less than that, but you get the point.
Player A goes on a reimbursable fleet and gets blapped. He gets 80%-10% = 70% of the hull value and then alliance reimburses the remaining 30% and perhaps a bit more for the fit. LEts assume the alliance is generous is also covers the cost of the fit. Player A then turns around and buys a new Ishtar. This happens every time he gets blapped at no cost to the player, and at 30% hull cost to the alliance.
With the changes, the cost of the hull will remain the same. So the initial cost will as well. But now the player platinum insures for 2.5% and gets back 20%. Again, just throwing some rough numbers around. So when he gets popped, he and the alliance now has to pay 87.5% of the value to get another Ishtar.
RIP alliance level SRP.
So the real question is... will T2 prices go back up to the levels they were at 3 months ago? How adversely will this effect alliance SRP programs? Were higher T2 insurance payouts allowing SRP alliances to pocket more isk off of moongoo due to the extra isk injection into the eve economy?
I'd love to hear from a major nulsec alliance on how this is going to effect their isk flow and SRP.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Akiko Sciuto
Wankers and Nerdy Gamers
12
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Posted - 2014.12.03 16:16:27 -
[34] - Quote
Serious question, why do you want the insurance rate so low on T2 ships? Can you please explain the reasoning behind this thought process. It just doesn't make sense to me.
Also blah blah blah wasted isk on T2 insurance, want refund blah blah blah..... Although it was kind of a **** move. |
X ATM092
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
439
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Posted - 2014.12.03 16:24:10 -
[35] - Quote
I agree with any reductions to the huge isk faucet that is insurance. |
Leyara Raholan
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.12.03 16:33:21 -
[36] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Let us, for moment, look at the Great Circle of Insurance.
Nulsec entity does moon mining and POS reactions, which are then sold in Jita. Isk is used to buy Ishtars at let us say 150M isk per unit.
Player A goes out and rats for an evening or three to buy his fleet reimbursable Ishtar.
Here is where things will begin to differ. He then insures it for 80% of the hull value at platinum level payout. This costs him 10% of the hull value. Its less than that, but you get the point.
Player A goes on a reimbursable fleet and gets blapped. He gets 80%-10% = 70% of the hull value and then alliance reimburses the remaining 30% and perhaps a bit more for the fit. LEts assume the alliance is generous is also covers the cost of the fit. Player A then turns around and buys a new Ishtar. This happens every time he gets blapped at no cost to the player, and at 30% hull cost to the alliance.
With the changes, the cost of the hull will remain the same. So the initial cost will as well. But now the player platinum insures for 2.5% and gets back 20%. Again, just throwing some rough numbers around. So when he gets popped, he and the alliance now has to pay 87.5% of the value to get another Ishtar.
RIP alliance level SRP.
So the real question is... will T2 prices go back up to the levels they were at 3 months ago? How adversely will this effect alliance SRP programs? Were higher T2 insurance payouts allowing SRP alliances to pocket more isk off of moongoo due to the extra isk injection into the eve economy?
I'd love to hear from a major nulsec alliance on how this is going to effect their isk flow and SRP.
This makes some sense. My NPC corp doesn't have an SRP program though. Fml I guess? Lol
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
7186
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Posted - 2014.12.03 16:41:01 -
[37] - Quote
Cheer people, soon you will not need insurance payout to pay por your next clone.
Don't look any further for negative energy, you will find it by being lazy.
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Jafit McJafitson
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
484
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Posted - 2014.12.03 16:43:32 -
[38] - Quote
X ATM092 wrote:I agree with any reductions to the huge isk faucet that is insurance.
If you want to talk about isk faucets, maybe CCP should revisit the Encounter Surveillance System deployable that was introduced in Rubicon? After Goons figured out you could just anchor it in one of the horrible anomolies that nobody actually runs, and pop all the triggers so that you have a fleet of scramming rats guarding it for you. It did kind of just turn into a buff for nullsec ratting income while adding none of the risk of theft or interesting gameplay dynamics that it was supposed to add. |
Charles Case
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
856
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Posted - 2014.12.03 16:43:42 -
[39] - Quote
BadAssMcKill wrote:Booooo
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Jassmin Joy
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
297
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Posted - 2014.12.03 16:52:30 -
[40] - Quote
Havent bothered insuring a ship that isnt a suicide capital in the past three years. |
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Bisches McFrosty
State War Academy Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2014.12.03 16:53:28 -
[41] - Quote
Jafit McJafitson wrote:X ATM092 wrote:I agree with any reductions to the huge isk faucet that is insurance. If you want to talk about isk faucets, maybe CCP should revisit the Encounter Surveillance System deployable that was introduced in Rubicon? After Goons figured out you could just anchor it in one of the horrible anomolies that nobody actually runs, and pop all the triggers so that you have a fleet of scramming rats guarding it for you. It did kind of just turn into a buff for nullsec ratting income while adding none of the risk of theft or interesting gameplay dynamics that it was supposed to add.
Hahahahahahaha
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Artcanin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7
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Posted - 2014.12.03 16:54:54 -
[42] - Quote
Bisches McFrosty wrote:Jafit McJafitson wrote:X ATM092 wrote:I agree with any reductions to the huge isk faucet that is insurance. If you want to talk about isk faucets, maybe CCP should revisit the Encounter Surveillance System deployable that was introduced in Rubicon? After Goons figured out you could just anchor it in one of the horrible anomolies that nobody actually runs, and pop all the triggers so that you have a fleet of scramming rats guarding it for you. It did kind of just turn into a buff for nullsec ratting income while adding none of the risk of theft or interesting gameplay dynamics that it was supposed to add. Hahahahahahaha
He does seem rather upset by this completely legitimate use of in-game mechanics in a way that everyone could have predicted beforehand. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland The 99 Percent
899
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Posted - 2014.12.03 16:57:14 -
[43] - Quote
Jafit McJafitson wrote:If you want to talk about isk faucets, maybe CCP should revisit the Encounter Surveillance System deployable that was introduced in Rubicon? After Goons figured out you could just anchor it in one of the horrible anomolies that nobody actually runs, and pop all the triggers so that you have a fleet of scramming rats guarding it for you. It did kind of just turn into a buff for nullsec ratting income while adding none of the risk of theft or interesting gameplay dynamics that it was supposed to add. Soldarius wrote:So the real question is... will T2 prices go back up to the levels they were at 3 months ago? How adversely will this effect alliance SRP programs? Were higher T2 insurance payouts allowing SRP alliances to pocket more isk off of moongoo due to the extra isk injection into the eve economy?
I'd love to hear from a major nulsec alliance on how this is going to effect their isk flow and SRP. Well Brave's Eagle fleet apparently just got 3x more expensive to reimburse. While I think its a sh*t doctrine anyway, it doesn't exactly bode well for their prospects for flying competitive doctrines in the future especially as CCP also rolled back the bomber changes that might have helped their dominixes not get repeatedly bombed off field by an endless stream of 3rd partying bombers turning up to every timer. Nor does it bode well for any other alliance that doesn't already own multiple regions worth of renter space and R64s. So here's to another year of stangnant nullsec, we're not likely to see any new players emerging any time soon.
That's pretty much what I'm getting from this, too. With higher insurance payouts, smaller entities could more readily field better doctrines. Unfortunately, Malcanis' Law definitely applies here.
Also, if it weren't for OP T3s, you'd see a lot more Eagles.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Jafit McJafitson
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
484
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Posted - 2014.12.03 17:09:13 -
[44] - Quote
Artcanin wrote:Bisches McFrosty wrote:Jafit McJafitson wrote:X ATM092 wrote:I agree with any reductions to the huge isk faucet that is insurance. If you want to talk about isk faucets, maybe CCP should revisit the Encounter Surveillance System deployable that was introduced in Rubicon? After Goons figured out you could just anchor it in one of the horrible anomolies that nobody actually runs, and pop all the triggers so that you have a fleet of scramming rats guarding it for you. It did kind of just turn into a buff for nullsec ratting income while adding none of the risk of theft or interesting gameplay dynamics that it was supposed to add. Hahahahahahaha He does seem rather upset by this completely legitimate use of in-game mechanics in a way that everyone could have predicted beforehand.
I also liked how you could anchor them on wormholes, and they would announce in local if someone jumped in and landed inside the ESS bubble. Yet another legitimate use of game mechanics that could have been predicted beforehand but wasn't, because :ccp:
And I'm not upset, I'm just disappointed.
But don't worry, because at least the art team knows what they're doing. |
Slevin-Kelevra
Origin. Black Legion.
18
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Posted - 2014.12.03 17:12:15 -
[45] - Quote
While I understand this is not a direct change by CCP, I am still extremely disappointed in them. This was definitely one of the more positive changes of late, and now it has be completely reversed.
Thanks for nothing CCP. |
Ian Praetorius
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
50
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Posted - 2014.12.03 17:31:18 -
[46] - Quote
Slevin-Kelevra wrote:While I understand this is not a direct change by CCP, I am still extremely disappointed in them. This was definitely one of the more positive changes of late, and now it has be completely reversed.
Thanks for nothing CCP.
What? Are you saying The Bright Star and/or Jovians are responsible? |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
5692
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 18:17:19 -
[47] - Quote
What would need to change where mandatory insuring of T1 ships (and ignoring T2 lol) is no longer needed?
The Paradox
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Jaden Kasan
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Get Off My Lawn
0
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Posted - 2014.12.03 18:43:02 -
[48] - Quote
Slevin-Kelevra wrote:While I understand this is not a direct change by CCP, I am still extremely disappointed in them. This was definitely one of the more positive changes of late, and now it has be completely reversed.
Thanks for nothing CCP.
That's why it was actually GOOD. They didn't intend to make the change.. those are the ones they screw up!
CCP.. you think you could at least provide some kind of table showing the premium and payout amounts! |
Dex Cordell
EVE University Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2014.12.03 19:21:49 -
[49] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hello folks.
Some of you will have noticed that insurance payouts for T2 ships have decreased starting today (December 3rd). This is an intentional change, designed to counteract the higher-than-desired increase in insurance payouts that resulted from the Crius industry changes.
You should expect insurance payouts for Tech 2 ships to now be a bit closer to what they had been pre-Crius.
This change isn't tied to any release since the insurance values recalculate on Tranquility on their own. Today just happens to be recalculation day.
you gotta be fcuking shitting me. this was one of the very very few "glitches" in any game I've played that I'd be glad for it to stay. I want all my isk back for all T2 ships that I have insured. |
Grookshank
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
38
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Posted - 2014.12.03 19:31:30 -
[50] - Quote
Just leaving this here:
http://i.imgur.com/U9LyAhZ.jpg
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Mitsorugi Kirojo
Nightlies Frieght Service
4
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Posted - 2014.12.03 20:39:50 -
[51] - Quote
So what if you've paid for a platinum insurance pre Dec 3rd ? Would my moros still have the same payout ? Considering I paid 800m for insurance .... |
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
292
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Posted - 2014.12.03 20:46:45 -
[52] - Quote
Jafit McJafitson wrote:Artcanin wrote:Bisches McFrosty wrote:Jafit McJafitson wrote:X ATM092 wrote:I agree with any reductions to the huge isk faucet that is insurance. If you want to talk about isk faucets, maybe CCP should revisit the Encounter Surveillance System deployable that was introduced in Rubicon? After Goons figured out you could just anchor it in one of the horrible anomolies that nobody actually runs, and pop all the triggers so that you have a fleet of scramming rats guarding it for you. It did kind of just turn into a buff for nullsec ratting income while adding none of the risk of theft or interesting gameplay dynamics that it was supposed to add. Hahahahahahaha He does seem rather upset by this completely legitimate use of in-game mechanics in a way that everyone could have predicted beforehand. I also liked how you could anchor them on wormholes, and they would announce in local if someone jumped in and landed inside the ESS bubble. Yet another legitimate use of game mechanics that could have been predicted beforehand but wasn't, because :ccp: And I'm not upset, I'm just disappointed. But don't worry, because at least the art team knows what they're doing.
Off topic, but, anomalies and wormholes are not stable and static, if you know what you are doing you can make a substantial pile of tags from them.
There are also ways to get in and out even with rats circling - of course you wouldn't bother looking at those options just taking the easy :whine: option when you see the words isk faucet in a thread about T2 insurance changes.
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1211
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Posted - 2014.12.03 20:47:45 -
[53] - Quote
Mitsorugi Kirojo wrote:So what if you've paid for a platinum insurance pre Dec 3rd ? Would my moros still have the same payout ? Considering I paid 800m for insurance .... Morosi aren't T2, so they aren't getting hit by this particular drawdown. The payout will be different on account of the insurance figure being rebalanced, but it won't be significantly lower, like it is for T2 ships.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Jessica Danikov
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
424
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Posted - 2014.12.03 20:48:08 -
[54] - Quote
Only took CCP 3 months to say anything about this, despite repeated prodding. |
Jessica Danikov
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
424
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Posted - 2014.12.03 20:51:16 -
[55] - Quote
X ATM092 wrote:I agree with any reductions to the huge isk faucet that is insurance.
Anyone who doesn't appreciate that Insurance is a huge ISK faucet doesn't deserve to comment on insurance. |
CheesusCrust
HildCo Interplanetar Villore Accords
11
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Posted - 2014.12.03 21:00:42 -
[56] - Quote
The game doesn't have enough ISK sinks as it is. God forbid you actually lose the value of the ship you exploded. Don't fly/make srp plans about what you can't afford to lose/srp.
Good change. +1 |
Lairel Dallocort
Hot Lobster Affirmative.
21
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Posted - 2014.12.03 21:10:28 -
[57] - Quote
CheesusCrust wrote:The game doesn't have enough ISK sinks as it is. God forbid you actually lose the value of the ship you exploded. Don't fly/make srp plans about what you can't afford to lose/srp.
Good change. +1
Blowing up a ship isn't an ISK sink, it is a resources sink. Your ISK still goes to another player. The only ISK sinks in the game are the payment for insurance, wardec payments, office payments, and those other things where money goes DIRECTLY to NPCs. Also, the only ISK faucets are from money you get DIRECTLY from NPCs, like mission ISK rewards and insurance payouts.
ISK traded between players is NOT an ISK sink.
The good part about this is a smaller ISK faucet from insurance payouts for the affected ships. |
Grarr Dexx
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
447
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Posted - 2014.12.03 21:41:53 -
[58] - Quote
Less free money is good. Insurance is a ******** premise anyways. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
5692
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Posted - 2014.12.03 21:54:22 -
[59] - Quote
Grarr Dexx wrote:Less free money is good. Insurance is a ******** premise anyways. My thoughts as well.
The Paradox
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Jawls Rohn
Neon Incorporated 404 Alliance Not Found
7
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Posted - 2014.12.03 22:06:11 -
[60] - Quote
Sad about this. I didn't fly T2 ships the past few months, but this makes me less likely to undock in one in future in anything other than a large fleet. |
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