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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
12125
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Posted - 2014.12.03 13:46:29 -
[1] - Quote
Hello folks.
Some of you will have noticed that insurance payouts for T2 ships have decreased starting today (December 3rd). This is an intentional change, designed to counteract the higher-than-desired increase in insurance payouts that resulted from the Crius industry changes.
You should expect insurance payouts for Tech 2 ships to now be a bit closer to what they had been pre-Crius.
This change isn't tied to any release since the insurance values recalculate on Tranquility on their own. Today just happens to be recalculation day.
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
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Makari Aeron
The Shadow's Of Eve TSOE Consortium
144
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Posted - 2014.12.03 13:49:57 -
[2] - Quote
I've never found insuring a T2 ship to be worthwhile. *shrug* to each their own.
CCP RedDawn: Ugly people are just playing life on HARD mode. Personally, I'm playing on an INFERNO difficulty.
CCP Goliath: I often believe that the best way to get something done is to shout at the person trying to help you. http://goo.gl/PKGDP
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H3llHound
Koshaku Tactical Narcotics Team
49
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Posted - 2014.12.03 13:56:30 -
[3] - Quote
But why the big drop again? Afaik payout depends on the materials used. There hasnt been much changes there.
Why not leave it a bit higher? ship losses were alot easier to compensate and promote the usage of t2 ships and loose them |
BadAssMcKill
ElitistOps
921
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Posted - 2014.12.03 13:57:16 -
[4] - Quote
Booooo |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2991
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Posted - 2014.12.03 13:57:36 -
[5] - Quote
happy insurance recalculation day.
does that mean that things like SOE ships have now hull values on killmails?
eve style bounties (done)
dust boarding parties
imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW
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Grookshank
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
38
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Posted - 2014.12.03 13:58:16 -
[6] - Quote
Thanks for the info. |
Tobias Frank
1
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Posted - 2014.12.03 13:58:29 -
[7] - Quote
:'( |
Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
833
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Posted - 2014.12.03 13:59:08 -
[8] - Quote
Makari Aeron wrote:I've never found insuring a T2 ship to be worthwhile. *shrug* to each their own. Recently it was, for certain things that you just knew were going to get exploded. Fleet Sabres, being a good example. They insured for about 6.8 mil, and paid out about 21.6 mil. Not exactly a windfall, but it was definitely nice for a hull that has a fleet survival rate somewhere around "Rifter being flown straight at a Tengu fleet".
Not at home right this second, so I can't see the adjusted payout for it. |
Daenna Chrysi
Omega Foundry Unit The Ditanian Alliance
109
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Posted - 2014.12.03 13:59:41 -
[9] - Quote
Makari Aeron wrote:I've never found insuring a T2 ship to be worthwhile. *shrug* to each their own.
Yeah, this is true, they just are not worth insuring. For one by the time people can afford to fly them they usually can afford to lose them as well. |
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Yumping Amok Circle-Of-Two
271
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Posted - 2014.12.03 14:04:40 -
[10] - Quote
EVE Needs insurance regulation...
CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
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Ian Praetorius
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
42
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Posted - 2014.12.03 14:07:47 -
[11] - Quote
Pre-Crius: T2 insurance a joke, nobody even bothers because it's like 5% of the hull value. Everything working as intended.
Crius: T2 insurance accidentally starts making sense. Obviously a bug, and not a feature.
Rhea: T2 insurance again rendered worthless. Presumably due to the outcry among players about being able to insure their ships. Everything working as intended once more.
:ccp: |
Makari Aeron
The Shadow's Of Eve TSOE Consortium
144
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Posted - 2014.12.03 14:09:58 -
[12] - Quote
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:Makari Aeron wrote:I've never found insuring a T2 ship to be worthwhile. *shrug* to each their own. Recently it was, for certain things that you just knew were going to get exploded. Fleet Sabres, being a good example. They insured for about 6.8 mil, and paid out about 21.6 mil. Not exactly a windfall, but it was definitely nice for a hull that has a fleet survival rate somewhere around "Rifter being flown straight at a Tengu fleet". Not at home right this second, so I can't see the adjusted payout for it.
Good to know. I guess I just remember the days when people would insure Drakes and destroy the outside of stations just to get the insurance payout since it was more than the ship was worth. Nowadays, I just don't find insurance to be worthwhile. But I also don't do big fleet roams. usually just gate camps....and if you lose a ship there 9 times out of 10 you dun goofed and deserved to lose it.
TL;DR: I haven't insured a ship in at least 3 years. Looked at it but decided "meh"
CCP RedDawn: Ugly people are just playing life on HARD mode. Personally, I'm playing on an INFERNO difficulty.
CCP Goliath: I often believe that the best way to get something done is to shout at the person trying to help you. http://goo.gl/PKGDP
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1195
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Posted - 2014.12.03 14:12:26 -
[13] - Quote
I'd like to take this time to echo my request for a public CREST endpoint that exposes insurance values for ships. More details here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=384317&find=unread
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Dodo Veetee
Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore
4
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Posted - 2014.12.03 14:23:06 -
[14] - Quote
Right when you start making sense, you show us the good old :ccp: that we all hate.
Thanks. |
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace Unsettled.
170
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Posted - 2014.12.03 14:29:06 -
[15] - Quote
Daenna Chrysi wrote:Makari Aeron wrote:I've never found insuring a T2 ship to be worthwhile. *shrug* to each their own. Yeah, this is true, they just are not worth insuring. For one by the time people can afford to fly them they usually can afford to lose them as well.
haha
Insurance is free money, whether you can afford to replace or not is hilariously irrelevant. Not insuring ships is biomassing ISK.
However, now we're back to when insuring T2 doesn't really make much difference.
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Canenald
Rubella Solaris Test Alliance Please Ignore
15
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Posted - 2014.12.03 14:29:54 -
[16] - Quote
How can people keep saying that it's not worth insuring t2 ships? Insurance pays out more than you invest in any system, pre-Crius, post-Crius or post-now. You ship is going to explode before the insurance expires = it's worth insuring regardless of the hull cost.
A ship actively used in pvp is most likely going to explode before the insurance runs out.
Now, if you are carebearing highsec pve then yeah, ships most likely aren't worth insuring, but if you are carebearing in highsec and even thinking you might need insurance you are probably doing it wrong. |
Kal Kendor
Freeport Ratting Appreciation Guild Phoebe Freeport Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.12.03 14:30:08 -
[17] - Quote
Why not just remove the ability to insure T2 ships, probably less work :^) |
Ian Praetorius
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
44
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Posted - 2014.12.03 14:34:10 -
[18] - Quote
Canenald wrote:How can people keep saying that it's not worth insuring t2 ships? Insurance pays out more than you invest in any system, pre-Crius, post-Crius or post-now. You ship is going to explode before the insurance expires = it's worth insuring regardless of the hull cost.
A ship actively used in pvp is most likely going to explode before the insurance runs out.
Now, if you are carebearing highsec pve then yeah, ships most likely aren't worth insuring, but if you are carebearing in highsec and even thinking you might need insurance you are probably doing it wrong.
The opportunity cost / effort of clicking those buttons is easily twice the value of the Pre-Crius ISK payout. |
fudface
ACME-INC
66
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Posted - 2014.12.03 14:36:36 -
[19] - Quote
What is this pointless thing you call "in sewer ants"?
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Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1448
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Posted - 2014.12.03 14:49:10 -
[20] - Quote
High insurance payouts were better.
Signature Tanking - Best Tanking
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TheMercenaryKing
StarFleet Enterprises Almost Awesome.
317
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Posted - 2014.12.03 14:57:27 -
[21] - Quote
Why not just remove insurance from non-industrial ships? |
Ariana Industrialis
Society of Penguins
3
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Posted - 2014.12.03 15:00:42 -
[22] - Quote
Fozzie, what do you plan to do for the guys who insured their T2 hull yesterday at high insurance cost, and will now lose money on insurance because payout is now much lower ?
Practical exemple:
Insure paladin yesteday, costs 350m payout 800m.
Die in paladin today, payout 275m. Doesn't even cover the cost of the insurance, let alone any of the hull. |
Xeleonn
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
1
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Posted - 2014.12.03 15:09:06 -
[23] - Quote
Rabble rabble rabble! |
Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
965
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Posted - 2014.12.03 15:12:29 -
[24] - Quote
Can I insure my pod and implants. It'll sting less if I get some cash back when I'm podded, also it would stop me from ripping my implants out my head before I die.
Yaay!!!!
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Jin So
Sev3rance
23
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Posted - 2014.12.03 15:21:32 -
[25] - Quote
w00t back to condors |
Theon Severasse
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
86
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Posted - 2014.12.03 15:38:40 -
[26] - Quote
Nice work bringing a really good change that made a lot of people happy, and then pulling the rug out from under their feet.
It's really the EVE way if you think about it, this is just another scam... |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
55
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Posted - 2014.12.03 15:39:52 -
[27] - Quote
I know the day was to come when you said so in Vegas, ... but a warning would have been nice, insured some T2 hulls yesterday :(
Seriously, what's the reasoning behind low insurance payouts for T2 hulls?
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Grookshank
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
38
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Posted - 2014.12.03 15:47:37 -
[28] - Quote
Dodo Veetee wrote:Right when you start making sense, you show us the good old :ccp: that we all hate.
Thanks. Don't be so harsh, we get a corp invite spam function in replacement. |
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
110
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Posted - 2014.12.03 15:55:39 -
[29] - Quote
Ariana Industrialis wrote:Fozzie, what do you plan to do for the guys who insured their T2 hull yesterday at high insurance cost, and will now lose money on insurance because payout is now much lower ?
Practical exemple:
Insure paladin yesteday, costs 350m payout 800m.
Die in paladin today, payout 275m. Doesn't even cover the cost of the insurance, let alone any of the hull.
I was under the impression the insurance rates and payout was determined when the ship was insured, not when it blew up. |
Esharan
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
119
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Posted - 2014.12.03 15:56:24 -
[30] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hello folks.
Some of you will have noticed that insurance payouts for T2 ships have decreased starting today (December 3rd). This is an intentional change, designed to counteract the higher-than-desired increase in insurance payouts that resulted from the Crius industry changes.
You should expect insurance payouts for Tech 2 ships to now be a bit closer to what they had been pre-Crius.
This change isn't tied to any release since the insurance values recalculate on Tranquility on their own. Today just happens to be recalculation day.
Too bad, this was a great QoL change...I wont fly T2 ships as often now because of it...It's kind of counter-intuitive, considering all the changes they are making to get people to fly more dangerously (e.g. clone changes) but then they do this - which is the total opposite of that QoL momentum.
Reconsider please? It's fun being able to fly more expensive stuff - there's still a loss if you die, just not as severe - with this change I just wont fly expensive T2 stuff meh. |
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Grookshank
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
38
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Posted - 2014.12.03 15:56:48 -
[31] - Quote
Aerie Evingod wrote:Ariana Industrialis wrote:Fozzie, what do you plan to do for the guys who insured their T2 hull yesterday at high insurance cost, and will now lose money on insurance because payout is now much lower ?
Practical exemple:
Insure paladin yesteday, costs 350m payout 800m.
Die in paladin today, payout 275m. Doesn't even cover the cost of the insurance, let alone any of the hull. I was under the impression the insurance rates and payout was determined when the ship was insured, not when it blew up. Nope. |
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
110
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Posted - 2014.12.03 16:05:11 -
[32] - Quote
Grookshank wrote:Aerie Evingod wrote:Ariana Industrialis wrote:Fozzie, what do you plan to do for the guys who insured their T2 hull yesterday at high insurance cost, and will now lose money on insurance because payout is now much lower ?
Practical exemple:
Insure paladin yesteday, costs 350m payout 800m.
Die in paladin today, payout 275m. Doesn't even cover the cost of the insurance, let alone any of the hull. I was under the impression the insurance rates and payout was determined when the ship was insured, not when it blew up. Nope.
Interesting...
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Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland The 99 Percent
899
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Posted - 2014.12.03 16:13:43 -
[33] - Quote
Let us, for moment, look at the Great Circle of Insurance.
Nulsec entity does moon mining and POS reactions, which are then sold in Jita. Isk is used to buy Ishtars at let us say 150M isk per unit.
Player A goes out and rats for an evening or three to buy his fleet reimbursable Ishtar.
Here is where things will begin to differ. He then insures it for 80% of the hull value at platinum level payout. This costs him 10% of the hull value. Its less than that, but you get the point.
Player A goes on a reimbursable fleet and gets blapped. He gets 80%-10% = 70% of the hull value and then alliance reimburses the remaining 30% and perhaps a bit more for the fit. LEts assume the alliance is generous is also covers the cost of the fit. Player A then turns around and buys a new Ishtar. This happens every time he gets blapped at no cost to the player, and at 30% hull cost to the alliance.
With the changes, the cost of the hull will remain the same. So the initial cost will as well. But now the player platinum insures for 2.5% and gets back 20%. Again, just throwing some rough numbers around. So when he gets popped, he and the alliance now has to pay 87.5% of the value to get another Ishtar.
RIP alliance level SRP.
So the real question is... will T2 prices go back up to the levels they were at 3 months ago? How adversely will this effect alliance SRP programs? Were higher T2 insurance payouts allowing SRP alliances to pocket more isk off of moongoo due to the extra isk injection into the eve economy?
I'd love to hear from a major nulsec alliance on how this is going to effect their isk flow and SRP.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Akiko Sciuto
Wankers and Nerdy Gamers
12
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Posted - 2014.12.03 16:16:27 -
[34] - Quote
Serious question, why do you want the insurance rate so low on T2 ships? Can you please explain the reasoning behind this thought process. It just doesn't make sense to me.
Also blah blah blah wasted isk on T2 insurance, want refund blah blah blah..... Although it was kind of a **** move. |
X ATM092
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
439
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Posted - 2014.12.03 16:24:10 -
[35] - Quote
I agree with any reductions to the huge isk faucet that is insurance. |
Leyara Raholan
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.12.03 16:33:21 -
[36] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Let us, for moment, look at the Great Circle of Insurance.
Nulsec entity does moon mining and POS reactions, which are then sold in Jita. Isk is used to buy Ishtars at let us say 150M isk per unit.
Player A goes out and rats for an evening or three to buy his fleet reimbursable Ishtar.
Here is where things will begin to differ. He then insures it for 80% of the hull value at platinum level payout. This costs him 10% of the hull value. Its less than that, but you get the point.
Player A goes on a reimbursable fleet and gets blapped. He gets 80%-10% = 70% of the hull value and then alliance reimburses the remaining 30% and perhaps a bit more for the fit. LEts assume the alliance is generous is also covers the cost of the fit. Player A then turns around and buys a new Ishtar. This happens every time he gets blapped at no cost to the player, and at 30% hull cost to the alliance.
With the changes, the cost of the hull will remain the same. So the initial cost will as well. But now the player platinum insures for 2.5% and gets back 20%. Again, just throwing some rough numbers around. So when he gets popped, he and the alliance now has to pay 87.5% of the value to get another Ishtar.
RIP alliance level SRP.
So the real question is... will T2 prices go back up to the levels they were at 3 months ago? How adversely will this effect alliance SRP programs? Were higher T2 insurance payouts allowing SRP alliances to pocket more isk off of moongoo due to the extra isk injection into the eve economy?
I'd love to hear from a major nulsec alliance on how this is going to effect their isk flow and SRP.
This makes some sense. My NPC corp doesn't have an SRP program though. Fml I guess? Lol
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
7186
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 16:41:01 -
[37] - Quote
Cheer people, soon you will not need insurance payout to pay por your next clone.
Don't look any further for negative energy, you will find it by being lazy.
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Jafit McJafitson
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
484
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 16:43:32 -
[38] - Quote
X ATM092 wrote:I agree with any reductions to the huge isk faucet that is insurance.
If you want to talk about isk faucets, maybe CCP should revisit the Encounter Surveillance System deployable that was introduced in Rubicon? After Goons figured out you could just anchor it in one of the horrible anomolies that nobody actually runs, and pop all the triggers so that you have a fleet of scramming rats guarding it for you. It did kind of just turn into a buff for nullsec ratting income while adding none of the risk of theft or interesting gameplay dynamics that it was supposed to add. |
Charles Case
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
856
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Posted - 2014.12.03 16:43:42 -
[39] - Quote
BadAssMcKill wrote:Booooo
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Jassmin Joy
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
297
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Posted - 2014.12.03 16:52:30 -
[40] - Quote
Havent bothered insuring a ship that isnt a suicide capital in the past three years. |
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Bisches McFrosty
State War Academy Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2014.12.03 16:53:28 -
[41] - Quote
Jafit McJafitson wrote:X ATM092 wrote:I agree with any reductions to the huge isk faucet that is insurance. If you want to talk about isk faucets, maybe CCP should revisit the Encounter Surveillance System deployable that was introduced in Rubicon? After Goons figured out you could just anchor it in one of the horrible anomolies that nobody actually runs, and pop all the triggers so that you have a fleet of scramming rats guarding it for you. It did kind of just turn into a buff for nullsec ratting income while adding none of the risk of theft or interesting gameplay dynamics that it was supposed to add.
Hahahahahahaha
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Artcanin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7
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Posted - 2014.12.03 16:54:54 -
[42] - Quote
Bisches McFrosty wrote:Jafit McJafitson wrote:X ATM092 wrote:I agree with any reductions to the huge isk faucet that is insurance. If you want to talk about isk faucets, maybe CCP should revisit the Encounter Surveillance System deployable that was introduced in Rubicon? After Goons figured out you could just anchor it in one of the horrible anomolies that nobody actually runs, and pop all the triggers so that you have a fleet of scramming rats guarding it for you. It did kind of just turn into a buff for nullsec ratting income while adding none of the risk of theft or interesting gameplay dynamics that it was supposed to add. Hahahahahahaha
He does seem rather upset by this completely legitimate use of in-game mechanics in a way that everyone could have predicted beforehand. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland The 99 Percent
899
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 16:57:14 -
[43] - Quote
Jafit McJafitson wrote:If you want to talk about isk faucets, maybe CCP should revisit the Encounter Surveillance System deployable that was introduced in Rubicon? After Goons figured out you could just anchor it in one of the horrible anomolies that nobody actually runs, and pop all the triggers so that you have a fleet of scramming rats guarding it for you. It did kind of just turn into a buff for nullsec ratting income while adding none of the risk of theft or interesting gameplay dynamics that it was supposed to add. Soldarius wrote:So the real question is... will T2 prices go back up to the levels they were at 3 months ago? How adversely will this effect alliance SRP programs? Were higher T2 insurance payouts allowing SRP alliances to pocket more isk off of moongoo due to the extra isk injection into the eve economy?
I'd love to hear from a major nulsec alliance on how this is going to effect their isk flow and SRP. Well Brave's Eagle fleet apparently just got 3x more expensive to reimburse. While I think its a sh*t doctrine anyway, it doesn't exactly bode well for their prospects for flying competitive doctrines in the future especially as CCP also rolled back the bomber changes that might have helped their dominixes not get repeatedly bombed off field by an endless stream of 3rd partying bombers turning up to every timer. Nor does it bode well for any other alliance that doesn't already own multiple regions worth of renter space and R64s. So here's to another year of stangnant nullsec, we're not likely to see any new players emerging any time soon.
That's pretty much what I'm getting from this, too. With higher insurance payouts, smaller entities could more readily field better doctrines. Unfortunately, Malcanis' Law definitely applies here.
Also, if it weren't for OP T3s, you'd see a lot more Eagles.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Jafit McJafitson
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
484
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Posted - 2014.12.03 17:09:13 -
[44] - Quote
Artcanin wrote:Bisches McFrosty wrote:Jafit McJafitson wrote:X ATM092 wrote:I agree with any reductions to the huge isk faucet that is insurance. If you want to talk about isk faucets, maybe CCP should revisit the Encounter Surveillance System deployable that was introduced in Rubicon? After Goons figured out you could just anchor it in one of the horrible anomolies that nobody actually runs, and pop all the triggers so that you have a fleet of scramming rats guarding it for you. It did kind of just turn into a buff for nullsec ratting income while adding none of the risk of theft or interesting gameplay dynamics that it was supposed to add. Hahahahahahaha He does seem rather upset by this completely legitimate use of in-game mechanics in a way that everyone could have predicted beforehand.
I also liked how you could anchor them on wormholes, and they would announce in local if someone jumped in and landed inside the ESS bubble. Yet another legitimate use of game mechanics that could have been predicted beforehand but wasn't, because :ccp:
And I'm not upset, I'm just disappointed.
But don't worry, because at least the art team knows what they're doing. |
Slevin-Kelevra
Origin. Black Legion.
18
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Posted - 2014.12.03 17:12:15 -
[45] - Quote
While I understand this is not a direct change by CCP, I am still extremely disappointed in them. This was definitely one of the more positive changes of late, and now it has be completely reversed.
Thanks for nothing CCP. |
Ian Praetorius
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
50
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Posted - 2014.12.03 17:31:18 -
[46] - Quote
Slevin-Kelevra wrote:While I understand this is not a direct change by CCP, I am still extremely disappointed in them. This was definitely one of the more positive changes of late, and now it has be completely reversed.
Thanks for nothing CCP.
What? Are you saying The Bright Star and/or Jovians are responsible? |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
5692
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 18:17:19 -
[47] - Quote
What would need to change where mandatory insuring of T1 ships (and ignoring T2 lol) is no longer needed?
The Paradox
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Jaden Kasan
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Get Off My Lawn
0
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Posted - 2014.12.03 18:43:02 -
[48] - Quote
Slevin-Kelevra wrote:While I understand this is not a direct change by CCP, I am still extremely disappointed in them. This was definitely one of the more positive changes of late, and now it has be completely reversed.
Thanks for nothing CCP.
That's why it was actually GOOD. They didn't intend to make the change.. those are the ones they screw up!
CCP.. you think you could at least provide some kind of table showing the premium and payout amounts! |
Dex Cordell
EVE University Ivy League
12
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 19:21:49 -
[49] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hello folks.
Some of you will have noticed that insurance payouts for T2 ships have decreased starting today (December 3rd). This is an intentional change, designed to counteract the higher-than-desired increase in insurance payouts that resulted from the Crius industry changes.
You should expect insurance payouts for Tech 2 ships to now be a bit closer to what they had been pre-Crius.
This change isn't tied to any release since the insurance values recalculate on Tranquility on their own. Today just happens to be recalculation day.
you gotta be fcuking shitting me. this was one of the very very few "glitches" in any game I've played that I'd be glad for it to stay. I want all my isk back for all T2 ships that I have insured. |
Grookshank
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
38
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Posted - 2014.12.03 19:31:30 -
[50] - Quote
Just leaving this here:
http://i.imgur.com/U9LyAhZ.jpg
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Mitsorugi Kirojo
Nightlies Frieght Service
4
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Posted - 2014.12.03 20:39:50 -
[51] - Quote
So what if you've paid for a platinum insurance pre Dec 3rd ? Would my moros still have the same payout ? Considering I paid 800m for insurance .... |
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
292
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 20:46:45 -
[52] - Quote
Jafit McJafitson wrote:Artcanin wrote:Bisches McFrosty wrote:Jafit McJafitson wrote:X ATM092 wrote:I agree with any reductions to the huge isk faucet that is insurance. If you want to talk about isk faucets, maybe CCP should revisit the Encounter Surveillance System deployable that was introduced in Rubicon? After Goons figured out you could just anchor it in one of the horrible anomolies that nobody actually runs, and pop all the triggers so that you have a fleet of scramming rats guarding it for you. It did kind of just turn into a buff for nullsec ratting income while adding none of the risk of theft or interesting gameplay dynamics that it was supposed to add. Hahahahahahaha He does seem rather upset by this completely legitimate use of in-game mechanics in a way that everyone could have predicted beforehand. I also liked how you could anchor them on wormholes, and they would announce in local if someone jumped in and landed inside the ESS bubble. Yet another legitimate use of game mechanics that could have been predicted beforehand but wasn't, because :ccp: And I'm not upset, I'm just disappointed. But don't worry, because at least the art team knows what they're doing.
Off topic, but, anomalies and wormholes are not stable and static, if you know what you are doing you can make a substantial pile of tags from them.
There are also ways to get in and out even with rats circling - of course you wouldn't bother looking at those options just taking the easy :whine: option when you see the words isk faucet in a thread about T2 insurance changes.
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1211
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 20:47:45 -
[53] - Quote
Mitsorugi Kirojo wrote:So what if you've paid for a platinum insurance pre Dec 3rd ? Would my moros still have the same payout ? Considering I paid 800m for insurance .... Morosi aren't T2, so they aren't getting hit by this particular drawdown. The payout will be different on account of the insurance figure being rebalanced, but it won't be significantly lower, like it is for T2 ships.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Jessica Danikov
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
424
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 20:48:08 -
[54] - Quote
Only took CCP 3 months to say anything about this, despite repeated prodding. |
Jessica Danikov
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
424
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 20:51:16 -
[55] - Quote
X ATM092 wrote:I agree with any reductions to the huge isk faucet that is insurance.
Anyone who doesn't appreciate that Insurance is a huge ISK faucet doesn't deserve to comment on insurance. |
CheesusCrust
HildCo Interplanetar Villore Accords
11
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 21:00:42 -
[56] - Quote
The game doesn't have enough ISK sinks as it is. God forbid you actually lose the value of the ship you exploded. Don't fly/make srp plans about what you can't afford to lose/srp.
Good change. +1 |
Lairel Dallocort
Hot Lobster Affirmative.
21
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Posted - 2014.12.03 21:10:28 -
[57] - Quote
CheesusCrust wrote:The game doesn't have enough ISK sinks as it is. God forbid you actually lose the value of the ship you exploded. Don't fly/make srp plans about what you can't afford to lose/srp.
Good change. +1
Blowing up a ship isn't an ISK sink, it is a resources sink. Your ISK still goes to another player. The only ISK sinks in the game are the payment for insurance, wardec payments, office payments, and those other things where money goes DIRECTLY to NPCs. Also, the only ISK faucets are from money you get DIRECTLY from NPCs, like mission ISK rewards and insurance payouts.
ISK traded between players is NOT an ISK sink.
The good part about this is a smaller ISK faucet from insurance payouts for the affected ships. |
Grarr Dexx
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
447
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Posted - 2014.12.03 21:41:53 -
[58] - Quote
Less free money is good. Insurance is a ******** premise anyways. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
5692
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 21:54:22 -
[59] - Quote
Grarr Dexx wrote:Less free money is good. Insurance is a ******** premise anyways. My thoughts as well.
The Paradox
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Jawls Rohn
Neon Incorporated 404 Alliance Not Found
7
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Posted - 2014.12.03 22:06:11 -
[60] - Quote
Sad about this. I didn't fly T2 ships the past few months, but this makes me less likely to undock in one in future in anything other than a large fleet. |
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Senyu Takashi
NGC research and development Imperium of Rising Luna
5
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Posted - 2014.12.03 22:32:20 -
[61] - Quote
What is this "insurance" you speak of?
Anyway seriously now, last time I insured a ship was.......2 years ago? Cant remember exactly. And I actually live in npc 0.0 without alliance SRP being available to me. |
Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
255
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 23:38:11 -
[62] - Quote
"I never used them anyways but I'm upset that it's gone now"
heh.
Also, yes, remove insurance or replace it with an alternate currency (a new type of LP!). Insurance is a pretty big faucet. |
Lucius Uta
Not really a corp
3
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Posted - 2014.12.04 09:05:47 -
[63] - Quote
I wish all the people who claim that insurance is an ISK faucet would explain how you can actually earn money using insurance. I must be doing something wrong since payout costs for me (even with platinum insurance) are always lower than the hull's value. Yes I know it makes me pay less for the ship than it's actually worth, but I could accomplish similar results with buy orders, so might as well remove those too. |
Janeway84
Def Squadron Pride Before Fall
116
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 09:22:24 -
[64] - Quote
This bad, its a change in the opposite direction of all other changes this year. |
Senyu Takashi
NGC research and development Imperium of Rising Luna
5
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 13:10:48 -
[65] - Quote
Its an ISK faucet when you look at it from a bigger perspective.
Lets assume that we now have 0 ISK(just as an example) in curculation in the EVE economy.
Player A kills few rats and earns 2M ISK. -- Thats 2M ISK "in" the economy.
Player A buys a ship for 1M from player B. -- Still 2M ISK in economy (player A has 1M, player B has 1M).
Player A insures his ship for 800k payout, the cost is 100k. -- Now its 1,9M ISK in economy (player A has 900k, player B has 1M).
Player A gets killed and receives 800k ISK from insurance payout. -- Now its 2,7M ISK in economy (player A has the previous 900k + 800k insurance payout, player B still has 1M ISK).
So basically, insurance payout added 800k ISK to the EVE economy, raising the number from 2M to 2,7M. Use this example for any ship in the game. |
Strange Shadow
Hedion University Amarr Empire
56
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 13:20:38 -
[66] - Quote
Whole insurance system is broken, and should be removed altogether from the game, and maybe reinvented from scratch to make any sense. It is NOT intuitive - go try to figure what insurance price it is based on, or where you will or will not get a payment - there is more exceptions than rules. It is NOT new player friendly, they barely has money to buy the drake, let alone insure it (and let those money go waste if lucky drake actually survives). It is NOT old player friendly (even more unfriendlier now as per OP). It spawns isk out of thin air each time ship explodes (because 40% default insurance) causing general isk inflation (yes i know ratting spawns even more, and yes that is not excused to spawn even more isk beside rats).
Maybe some kind of consolation T-shirt, or just random vanity item (depending on exploded hull size), which you could (maybe) sell on market would made more sense to me. |
Jessica Danikov
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
425
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Posted - 2014.12.04 13:24:38 -
[67] - Quote
Lucius Uta wrote:I wish all the people who claim that insurance is an ISK faucet would explain how you can actually earn money using insurance. I must be doing something wrong since payout costs for me (even with platinum insurance) are always lower than the hull's value. Yes I know it makes me pay less for the ship than it's actually worth, but I could accomplish similar results with buy orders, so might as well remove those too.
We're talking about the EVE-wide economy, not your individual wallet. When you buy a ship, all you're doing is trading currency for a hull (a assembly of raw components). Very little currency is destroyed (only market fees and such) in the process; none if you do a direct trade.
Insurance purchases are an ISK sink: that money spent goes nowhere and is removed from the universe.
Insurance payouts are an ISK faucet: the money comes from nowhere and is magic'd into existence. However, due to the fact the process is intrinsically tied to the destruction of a hull and tied to hull value indices, you could also think of it as a mineral -> ISK conversion process. By paying upfront with insurance, you make that conversion more efficient. However, with regards to ISK alone, it's still a faucet.
Overall, insurance payouts are far greater than purchases, so the net effect of both makes insurance an ISK faucet.
If you look at the Economics presentation at FanFest, they usually cover Faucets and Sinks and you can see just how big a faucet insurance payouts are (IIRC it's in the top 5, but one of the smaller 5). |
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die Retribution.
190
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Posted - 2014.12.04 14:09:15 -
[68] - Quote
oh god yet another fozzie bright idea..
so you do a good thing by removing clone costs so people fly more, now you do something to completely counter it, by stopping people wanting to fly T2 ships. Why didn't you just tweak it rather than go back the start?
just remove insurance full stop then rather than make it an annoyance |
Lucius Uta
Not really a corp
3
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Posted - 2014.12.04 14:28:27 -
[69] - Quote
Good explanations from Senyu and Jessica, but can ISK caused from insurance really cause inflation when money added to the economy from insurance payouts doesn't come without coverage, but it's being tied to a value of another item (which itself has coverage)? Won't it just reduce the effective value of the said item? From what I know, inflation is caused when money is printed without coverage. Or it will just cause smaller inflation than it would in case the supply of ships were endless? |
Senyu Takashi
NGC research and development Imperium of Rising Luna
5
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 15:07:41 -
[70] - Quote
Lucius Uta wrote:Good explanations from Senyu and Jessica, but can ISK caused from insurance really cause inflation when money added to the economy from insurance payouts doesn't come without coverage, but it's being tied to a value of another item (which itself has coverage)? Won't it just reduce the effective value of the said item? From what I know, inflation is caused when money is printed without coverage. Or it will just cause smaller inflation than it would in case the supply of ships were endless?
No, inflation is created when currency loses its value. Yes I know that welping a 25m harpy doesnt seem like such a big deal, but imagine that someone welps a platinum insured JF (and JFs are getting ganked on a daily basis). Thats several billion of ISK created out of thin air and deposited into economy.
More ISK created than deleted -> too much ISK -> ISK loses value -> prices skyrocket.
EDIT: In the end, the people that are hurt by this the most are mission farmers and 0.0 ratters since their income is composed of liquid ISK that essentialy lost its value. Industrialists, researchers, miners, salvagers and relic/data site hunters are either affected less or completely untouched, since material, salvage and item prices rise in response to the inflation, so their ISK balance (income - expenses) remains almost the same. |
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Jessica Danikov
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
425
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 12:14:45 -
[71] - Quote
We could get rid of ISK payouts entirely and have wrecks drop more than just rig salvage, but actual components based on insurance level (which really tickles as, if you lose, the benefits of said insurance remains on the field, which is a nice, risky cost/benefit choice). |
Jessica Danikov
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
425
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 13:01:42 -
[72] - Quote
Lucius Uta wrote:Good explanations from Senyu and Jessica, but can ISK caused from insurance really cause inflation when money added to the economy from insurance payouts doesn't come without coverage, but it's being tied to a value of another item (which itself has coverage)? Won't it just reduce the effective value of the said item? From what I know, inflation is caused when money is printed without coverage. Or it will just cause smaller inflation than it would in case the supply of ships were endless?
If anything, this amplifies the inflation-like effects of insurance. Not only are you destroying commodities, you're creating new currency, unlike, say, bounty payouts that purely generate ISK. ISK's value is derived relative to its purchasing power of mineral-based goods (PLEX is entirely irrelevant as it merely facilitates the movement of ISK), so if the supply of ships were endless, the entire system would be devalued. The whole point is that both ISK and ships are limited in rate of supply. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
904
|
Posted - 2015.01.17 20:33:49 -
[73] - Quote
I remember a time when T1 Battleship insurance would damn near cover the total loss. So, lets say you bought a Raven for 65 mill, and fittings were another 25 mil, and Platinum insurance was 30 mil, you had a total of 120 million in the ship. Payout would give you back 110 and your personal total loss was about 10 million. (Going from memory, costs vary of course)
The thing is though, more PvP was had, because it was affordable. People would blow up BS every night, because it was cheap.
I have to think that all that turnover was good for the economy in several ways. Ship builders, module builders, rig builders, drone builders, etc, all moved more product (but at less margins). This turnover helped miners, haulers, marketers as well. Short version: jobs were created.
As for ISK in the economy: Every State and Nation I know of, works hard to create jobs, because jobs HELP the economy. As a player, if I have more ISK than I need, it just sits in my wallet or I convert it to ships in my hanger. The conversion puts ships and ISK on the same level as a currency. So yeah, I generate ISK from thin air, but yeah I also explode a ship into thin air in the process. I'm not sure that more ISK is a bad thing tbh. People quote "inflation" or "devaluation" formulas, but in a game where everyone has the same opportunities to generate wealth, those formulas don't impact anyone harshly.
I do understand, that they might affect PLEX sales/cost. And from a business aspect, I understand that those costs might need to be regulated. |
Barrogh Habalu
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
856
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Posted - 2015.02.01 10:19:38 -
[74] - Quote
RavenPaine wrote:I remember a time when T1 Battleship insurance would damn near cover the total loss. So, lets say you bought a Raven for 65 mill, and fittings were another 25 mil, and Platinum insurance was 30 mil, you had a total of 120 million in the ship. Payout would give you back 110 and your personal total loss was about 10 million. (Going from memory, costs vary of course)
The thing is though, more PvP was had, because it was affordable. People would blow up BS every night, because it was cheap. Did insurance cover modules? Because if not, from your explanation it seems like you could net a profit from blown hull. At any rate, I can see why that was removed, although I guess it was a fun world to live in for the time being. |
Tyranis Marcus
Bloody Heathens
1389
|
Posted - 2015.02.06 00:46:10 -
[75] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:Can I insure my pod and implants. It'll sting less if I get some cash back when I'm podded, also it would stop me from ripping my implants out my head before I die.
Something like a percentage back based off the killmail loss of the pod, minus any specialty implants like the golden pod.
Nah, they should make it so that if you rip out implants while in combat, you lose skillpoints.
Do not run. We are your friends.
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Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
55
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Posted - 2015.02.15 10:55:43 -
[76] - Quote
Senyu Takashi wrote:Its an ISK faucet when you look at it from a bigger perspective.
Lets assume that we now have 0 ISK(just as an example) in circulation in the EVE economy.
Player A kills few rats and earns 2M ISK. -- Thats 2M ISK "in" the economy.
Player A buys a ship for 1M from player B. -- Still 2M ISK in economy (player A has 1M, player B has 1M).
Player A insures his ship for 800k payout, the cost is 100k. -- Now its 1,9M ISK in economy (player A has 900k, player B has 1M).
Player A gets killed and receives 800k ISK from insurance payout. -- Now its 2,7M ISK in economy (player A has the previous 900k + 800k insurance payout, player B still has 1M ISK).
So basically, insurance payout added 700k ISK (800k - its cost 100k) to the EVE economy, raising the number from 2M to 2,7M. Use this example for any ship in the game.
Such an ideal scenario.
However how many ships being used and lost not insured. And usually people don't fly a naked ships, they buying fitting and ammo and drones which are not insured as well. |
Kiandoshia
Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2185
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 19:46:46 -
[77] - Quote
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Such an ideal scenario.
However how many ships being used and lost not insured. And usually people don't fly a naked ships, they buying fitting and ammo and drones which are not insured as well.
None of that money disappears. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
225
|
Posted - 2015.04.24 23:09:30 -
[78] - Quote
Remind me why does insurance exist again? |
SFR SaFeRa
DBD RELOADED Against ALL Authorities
0
|
Posted - 2015.05.14 03:55:19 -
[79] - Quote
This is a radical thought but: What about basing insurance payouts on the market price of a ship, and not the material cost? I love the gnosis, think it is a great ship, but since material cost is one trit, you have a 6 isk insurance, which, as a new player, is too little on a 70 mill hull i will lose. See also: Exhumer, etc. |
Velarra
394
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Posted - 2015.06.10 14:49:47 -
[80] - Quote
Can you imagine the streams of colourful 'feedback' and statue bashing that'd commence if one could spend Aurum for "Elite Premium" ship insurance? ;) |
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Blackfeathers
Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore
26
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Posted - 2015.07.16 02:11:26 -
[81] - Quote
The [Right Now] tag on this thread is silly. |
Raven Pirkibo
Jameco Industries The Big Dirty
1
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Posted - 2015.07.19 04:56:51 -
[82] - Quote
fudface wrote:What is this pointless thing you call "in sewer ants"?
I think this has something to do with "the reflected sound of underground spirits" |
PecX Ocedei
Perkone Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 20:57:03 -
[83] - Quote
Oh I remember the first time I flew a Gnosis, and thought it was a good idea to insure it. Ah to be young and ignorant again... |
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