Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |

Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
65
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 14:08:43 -
[31] - Quote
So we're removing this not-used, not functioning as intended, feature but we're leaving the abomination that is captains quarters in, with no updates in 2 years now? That makes perfect sense.
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.-á He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
|

Dunamis55
NER Industries
0
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 14:09:10 -
[32] - Quote
For me personally, I like the idea of teams as a conceptual idea, but I found the whole auction system a huge turn-off.
I've never felt the need to attempt to bid, simply because I knew that I'd probably be outbid at the last minute. |

The Ironfist
Nordbot Capitals Northern Associates.
78
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 14:14:29 -
[33] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:So a few general topics people are hitting on here: Just do X or add Y to make them betterAs mentioned in the original post to do Teams properly would require a not insignificant amount of work and the Development team wants to do this properly. At the moment however taking on such a project does not align with some of the priorities we are discussing for the next few releases. Unfortunately we are always choosing from a series of things to do next and we sometimes have to push things back. Also as this thread expands a number of people are already raising numerous issues that we are aware of need tackling to really make Teams as good as they need to be, but this also highlights the scope of the project, as mentioned is not small. Why not leave them in?This is a complex question to answer and one we have been debating for a long time internally. The honest answer is that everything we add to the game is one more thing to support and maintain. Trimming is good for the health of the game both for it's players and the developers, we would not pursue this course of action if we did not believe it was the most valuable thing for the game in the long term and we'd rather not let the feature languish as this makes it increasingly harder to revisit in the future. As a result the removal should impact a minimal number of players, and allow us to focus our efforts where it counts. To be clear, we are not never going to follow up on the feature, but this course of action will make it easier for us to do when we can. We want to be more flexible in how we react to features that are not meeting player or developer expectations and that should hopefully include sometimes removing a feature until such a time as it can be revisited. TL;DRIn summary we can only realistically look at two options here:
- Leave them as is (yes it would be cool to do X or Y, but realistically we cannot)
- Remove them
When you added the build teams at the same time you increased the material requirements on capitals and supercapitals which is all well and good but since you're removing teams again now does it mean you'll revisit build requirements because thats a huge hit.. |

Arronicus
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Shadow of xXDEATHXx
1349
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 14:17:29 -
[34] - Quote
The auction mechanism could REALLY use a re-think, also I think the teams selection is split up into a few desirable, and a whole heap of undesirable teams, with those who bother to use them only going after the good ones. With the other ones, people who would use them cant be bothered with the 7 day auction period, or understanding the savings.
Turning the auction system into a closed auction, where no-one can see any bids except the bid they specifically have placed in systems for a team would completely eliminate the sniping. You'd put up what you are willing to pay. If someone else was willing to pay more, you wouldn't get the team, so you'd put up what it was worth to you, or risk not getting it trying to save a dime. I'd also shorten the auction period to 3 days =/ |

Tarpedo
Incursionista
1426
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 14:17:29 -
[35] - Quote
Could you, please, somehow remove the scanning mini-game too? I bet almost nobody would play it if it was optional.  |

handige harrie
Hedion University Amarr Empire
282
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 14:17:29 -
[36] - Quote
Biggest problems with Teams for me was that you had no way to see on which teams you had bid and on which of those bids you where outbid. It made Teams such a hassle to use that acquiring them isn't worth the effort.
Baddest poster ever
|

Arronicus
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Shadow of xXDEATHXx
1349
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 14:18:56 -
[37] - Quote
The Ironfist wrote:
When you added the build teams at the same time you increased the material requirements on capitals and supercapitals which is all well and good but since you're removing teams again now does it mean you'll revisit build requirements because thats a huge hit..
Slight mistake here. When CCP added build teams, at the same time they increased the amount of minerals you can get from a unit of ore. The increase in capital mineral usage I believe was to help offset this increased mineral supply, not the addition of teams. |

Yongtau Naskingar
Yongtau Naskingar Corporation
81
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 14:22:44 -
[38] - Quote
Yongtau Naskingar wrote:It seems to me like convoluted system that'll do very little in the end. Hah, called it. |

Calorn Marthor
Standard Fuel Company Galactic Skyfleet Empire
36
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 14:24:05 -
[39] - Quote
Tarpedo wrote:Could you, please, somehow remove the scanning mini-game too? I bet almost nobody would play it if it was optional. 
Also please remove all NPCs from sites - I bet almost nobody would fight them if he could just scoop up the loot instead. |

The Ironfist
Nordbot Capitals Northern Associates.
78
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 14:26:55 -
[40] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:The Ironfist wrote:
When you added the build teams at the same time you increased the material requirements on capitals and supercapitals which is all well and good but since you're removing teams again now does it mean you'll revisit build requirements because thats a huge hit..
Slight mistake here. When CCP added build teams, at the same time they increased the amount of minerals you can get from a unit of ore. The increase in capital mineral usage I believe was to help offset this increased mineral supply, not the addition of teams.
You only get more now if you got a Tier2 or Tier3 Minmatar outpost so thats a really wired justification. Highec refine you actually get LESS now.. Lowsec POS you get the same you used too.... |
|

Calorn Marthor
Standard Fuel Company Galactic Skyfleet Empire
36
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 14:30:08 -
[41] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:In summary we can only realistically look at two options here:
- Leave them as is (yes it would be cool to do X or Y, but realistically we cannot)
- Remove them
meh...
Can't you just put the thing on kickstarter? Other people even manage to sell features for nonexistant games there.
(on a more serious note: I like the feature even as it is, but I would not unsub if it went away and you promise that it makes the rest of the development significantly easier) |

Makhpella
Temet Nosce Ex Astra
3
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 14:30:44 -
[42] - Quote
If you remove teams then there will be no depth in industry. Its going to be plain and stupid. |

Kolb
Novaku Inc Novaku Alliance
8
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 14:32:32 -
[43] - Quote
Nomistrav wrote: Removal insinuates that it will never be revisited, let's not beat around the bush there. There aren't many (if any) features that actually make it back into the game after they've been removed. If anything, it'd actually become more difficult if not just as difficult to re-implement it later on as the game evolves. The only difference is with it's removal there's now a lack of motivation to bring it back at all and what few people did use it get penalized unnecessarily.
That's exactly (and freakishly nearly verbatim) what my thought is on this. |

TeeKay Latef
Birds of Steel Codex Aevum
16
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 14:32:56 -
[44] - Quote
Sad to see it go, but it was flawed in many ways. I just hope they bring Teams back someday...
The thing that was most annoying for me, was i couldnt use them remotely. If they ever come back add an "Project Management" Skill, with prequesite Advanced Industry V maybe. 2 Jumps per level to invite teams to your system. Or make them actual in game items, so you can trade them and ship them around. my2 cents |

Kel hound
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
113
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 14:35:40 -
[45] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:
- Leave them as is (yes it would be cool to do X or Y, but realistically we cannot)
- Remove them
Would removing teams potentially help alleviate some of the lag associated with using the industry window? I know of some capital producers that use teams so I think keeping them could hold some value. However aside from a few nich cases I don't think anyone will be truly sorry to see them go. Pitty, but a cool idea improperly or inadequately implemented is really just a meh net feature. I'm curious how far onto the back-burner Teams is being thrown though. Are we talking a few development cycles, a few dozen development cycles, or a period of time yet to be determined? |

Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 14:37:10 -
[46] - Quote
There are limitations of the current team mechanics, but it's not fundamentally flawed.. leave them as is if it's not that much extra effort to maintain, maybe?
You'll also probably find that some kinds of teams are used (high value item, high % difference), and others are not. As others have mentioned, this is probably an indication that the initial scope was too wide.
Having said that, I won't miss them if they're done. They were just another unnecessary level of complexity. |

Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace Unsettled.
171
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 14:38:33 -
[47] - Quote
It's a nice feature and shame if it will be just disabled like this.
|

Ravcharas
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
393
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 14:40:47 -
[48] - Quote
If you investigated the issue, what did you find? What is it that keeps people from using teams?
(My guess would be that it's mostly UI related) |

BoBoZoBo
Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team
502
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 14:45:02 -
[49] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:It's a shame that the feature is being removed, but with the low usage, and the problems with it, it's better to remove it until a team has the time to work on it properly, rather than leaving it in a half working state. 
What is sad, is that a admittedly 1/2 baked feature made it into the game.
But sometimes you have to try things to know better and Kudos to CCP on recognizing the reasonable player disenfranchisement of it, and removing it until a better implementation of the goal gets fully baked.
Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite
|

Nyjil Lizaru
Aideron Robotics
34
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 14:47:44 -
[50] - Quote
Teams seemed like a nice idea, and I did look into them occasionally. But they added just a little bit too much complexity for my tastes - though I admit to being a rather casual industrialist.
Nyjil's corollary to Malcanis' Law: -á "Any attempt by CCP to smooth the learning curve of EVE Online will be carried out via the addition of extra factors and 'features' such that there is a net increase in complexity."
|
|

Macker Momo
The Big Moe
27
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 14:51:19 -
[51] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:It's a shame that the feature is being removed, but with the low usage, and the problems with it, it's better to remove it until a team has the time to work on it properly, rather than leaving it in a half working state. 
Yes. At this point teams benefit only a select few. Good luck with the revamp.
Eve releases are coming so quickly, I had to start wearing a seat belt.
|

Valterra Craven
406
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 14:51:26 -
[52] - Quote
I think removing something in game that is working but not used very much is an ill conceived idea and sets a very bad precedent for the future. |

Firvain
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
28
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 14:52:58 -
[53] - Quote
Damn I loved my teams. Will be sad to see them go. It was very good for ship production. I have to admit that I did not use them often for module production, but module production is usually an on the spur of the momemnt thing and the delay in aquiring teams makes that kinda hard.
But yeah for capital ships there was some real competition going on getting teams as they would save you alot of money. Also it fucks up my spreadsheets not having teams, that is annoying :( |

Beaver Retriever
Reality Sequence
234
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 15:10:59 -
[54] - Quote
There is no reason to remove teams. All you need to do is to fix the auction mechanic so that additional bids extend the auction time. Sniping makes competing for teams a complete crapshoot.
Fix auctions, don't just remove a feature because it didn't work the way you wanted to.
If the rest of the dev team followed this logic, there wouldn't be much Eve left.
I look forward to the post announcing the removal of POSes, PI and sentry drones since those have remained unfixed for years. |

Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2578
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 15:16:45 -
[55] - Quote
I have two major gripes with teams them selves. 1. There scope it too large, a team with a 2% reduction to TE should effect all time related factors of the blueprint, not just one sub portion. 2. The public aspect of them after you win a bid makes them less personal and therefore less desirable to bid on from the start.
Bid sniping is a problem but not as much of a deal breaker as these two. |

Arronicus
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Shadow of xXDEATHXx
1350
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 15:17:39 -
[56] - Quote
The Ironfist wrote:Arronicus wrote:The Ironfist wrote:
When you added the build teams at the same time you increased the material requirements on capitals and supercapitals which is all well and good but since you're removing teams again now does it mean you'll revisit build requirements because thats a huge hit..
Slight mistake here. When CCP added build teams, at the same time they increased the amount of minerals you can get from a unit of ore. The increase in capital mineral usage I believe was to help offset this increased mineral supply, not the addition of teams. You only get more now if you got a Tier2 or Tier3 Minmatar outpost so thats a really wired justification. Highec refine you actually get LESS now.. Lowsec POS you get the same you used too....
No.
From http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/reprocess-all-the-things/
"Decreasing reprocessing efficiency as a whole affects the outcome of mining, which really doesnGÇÖt need to be nerfed right now. As such, to keep ratio fairly identical, we are going to boost all minerals and ice products gained by reprocessing ores and ices approximately by 38.1% (1/0.724)."
Perfect highsec STATION refine is 0.72358, so the moment you use a highsec pos to refine, you get more than you did before, let alone using a null/lowsec pos, or ANY upgraded nullsec outpost. |

Mara Kell
Herrscher der Zeit Test Alliance Please Ignore
34
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 15:20:48 -
[57] - Quote
Thank god this "feature" gets removed.
Those teams were one of the reason that made me stop any industrial production since Crius. Complexity is the reason why i still play and love this game, but teams did not add complexity they added randomness and unpredictability.
Now that teams will finally rip, can we maybe have a second look at rounding of material input numbers and the ME formula? The new Crius formula still gives irrational results for researched capital ship blue prints. |

Shizuken
Venerated Stars
328
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 15:24:56 -
[58] - Quote
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:
Problems I see with them;
* Large number of utterly worthless teams (1% off building probes. CCP plz), so if your metric is related to how many of the teams are a month make me piles of ISK)
* You generally overestimate how useful a time bonus is. I don't care if the job takes 2d 15 hours or 2d 13 hours really... Now if the job takes 1d 15h instead of 2d 15h, I'm interested...
* Large percentage of available teams having very small bonus (0.5% bonus... not quite worth the :effort:) and very hard to grab the valuable teams (2%, 3% etc) without alarmclocking for auction end times.
* Terrible auction system. No sniping rules whatsoever. Look at online auction sites and learn something before implementing.
I am not kidding, I literally just looked at teams last night for the first time ever and noticed these issues right away. So mamy slills already give bonuses to build time, another 2-3 hours is meaningless to me. I get to play around the same time every day from r a few hours. Any bonus that shrinks something by less than 24 hours is meaningless to me. It will still be done by the next time I log in either way.
I hoped that since you guys are now shafting us so much on recoverable minerals that there would have been larger bonuses to material costs. But even though I haven't done the math it doesn't look like the current team material bonuses are worth the cost of the team. The margins are so low I cant see it being worth it unless you are making hundreds or thousands of units. What is the point of saving money on materials if you spend it on a team instead and get your goods 2 hours earlier?
The auction system appears worthless as well. I am not setting an alarm to wake up and hire one. |

Ereshgikal
Pigs and Sows Tactical Narcotics Team
47
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 15:27:22 -
[59] - Quote
I've used teams once or twice since I am a very casual industrialist. However, I love the complexity the teams brought in and have set up the proper spreadsheets/tools to find out where I would break even on a team in terms of units produced. To me, making tools is more fun than doing the industry in-game.
Please, leave the teams in and revisit the existing flaws later when resources allow for it. If you remove it the cost of re-introducing it will be much higher and take more energy from you and the community since I bet the developer when that happens wants to leave "their mark" on the feature...meaning additional costs.
To those that find teams too complex to use, the margin you do gain from using teams is not insignificant but they are not a necessity to use to be able to make a profit. You can continue to ignore the teams.
I view teams as a faction/officer mod of industry. It is horribly expensive and you better know when/how to use it. I see no one calling for the removal of "worthless" officer mods. Ok, analogy might be a bit flawed, but it is close to how I view it. |

THOR LIGHTING
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
0
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 15:32:21 -
[60] - Quote
I understand the issues with teams not being used as much as expected and perhaps adding a bit more complexity to a already complex industry but isnt there a better way to deal with this other than just removing them?
I am a low sec capital builder. With Crius launching many low sec capital builders sold all their assets and moved on because of the rather large buff to capital building that null sec was getting. In order to compete with this CCP launched the Thukker array which reduced the materials needed and time. Which was great it had its intended affect but the truth is that in null sec you can build a dread at similar cost and take 4-5 days what takes me 12 days to build in low sec.
Teams greatly reduced this for me. I am building on average 30 dreads per month. If i won a 2.5% ME reduction to capital components team along with a 2.5-5% ME reduction Dread/carrier/capital hull building team I could reduce the price of building a dread by almost 150 mil. On average the teams were saving me 4.5bil isk in materials a month. I loved them and would set timers on my phone so that i would be active and ready to bid when good teams when they became available.
For low sec capital builders teams are a HUGE difference so please don't forget about us as we've already been gimped |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |