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Is it so hard? Remove instas, let people warp to 0. How? Read..

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Swatcat Gallente OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2006.11.03 10:17:00 - [61] I like the idea of removing bookmarks and having warp at 0km, what I think you should is to remove all bookmarks < 20km from gate... this solves all issues: 1) Safe spots (and valuable loot) are still there 2) You are still able to bookmark say 100km from gate if you want to snipe war target. 3) The poor old database will get an overdue weight loss program Swatcat
Noveron Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.07 08:59:00 - [62] They are testing it on sisi as I modified my first post to reflect this.. now.. According to what Ive been told, warping to gates manually leaves you at 2km of it, so you dont bounce with it and warping to station warps you to 0. So anyone who wants to properly camp a gate needs to use bubbles to bring people out of warp earlier.. Anyone has tried this yet on sisi?
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.07 10:09:00 - [63] Edited by: Vyktor Abyss on 07/11/2006 10:12:36 Originally by: Noveron Edited by: Noveron on 05/09/2006 13:04:24 Allow people to set warp distance to 0km, when they do, autopilot will disable upon reaching every gate you got to go through, if you want to travel afaik using autopilot, set warp distance to 15km minimun. I just wanted to moan about the ever increasing misuses of AFAIK and other acronyms and how annoying these acronyms are...I spend longer trying to work them out than reading the passage...Then I look up "As Far As I Know" and it doesn't even make sense in this context...Grrr. (Hissy fit over! )
Gabriel D'ai	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:14:00 - [64] Warp to 0km is a godsend. Please implement!
Belien Jenton	Posted - 2006.11.07 21:59:00 - [65] Edited by: Belien Jenton on 07/11/2006 22:05:11 (omg - please don't let Oveur have seen that) Originally by: Dukath 1) Make ships come out of warp in a RANDOM sphere at 15 km from exit point. 2) add a low slot module that reduces the radius by 2 km 3) add a tutorial entry to learn people how to fit their ships. I never use instas, I don't need it, you don't need it. You are just too lazy/carebearish to even consider giving up a cargo expander or a warp core stabiliser for a speed module. 1) would not help the issue of all players eventually making/copying insta bookmarks Unless you mean to apply this rule without prejudice, in which case you just doubled, tripled if not quadrupled all traveling time 2) would seriously nerf armor tankers while leaving shield tankers and Electronic Warfare ships at a great advantage. Fleets and PvP'ers move from system to system you know ? 3) it's there already - however limited Apart from that I must admit that I was in exactly the same position as Oveur. I have previously suggested limiting bookmarks so that they could not be made within 115 Km of any gate or station. My argument was that ship speed and maneuverability should in fact have an impact on travel since they are implemented. However since then I've made quite a few 50+ jump trips into 0.0 space and I must confess that I would simply not have the patience for that if I was to haul my a$$ 15 Km towards every gate on the route. Maeby in an interceptor but no way I was going to do it in a gang of battleships, or scout for said battleships for that matter That being said - the only times I've ever been caught while traveling was while initiating warp on the "other side" of a gate, being sucked into a bubble, or due to lag of/faulty bookmarks. Warp to 0 Km / 15 Km autopilot is the only easily implemented solution that - as already stated - does not impact current game play in any significant way. Well actually it might save a noob or two which I honestly think is a good side effect If CCP want to run a DB cleanup job removing bookmarks within 115 Km of all gates and stations they got my approval. Only problem I might face is to remake a few bookmarks of agent, research, trade and jumpclone stations. No big deal /signed
dennyreborn	Posted - 2006.11.07 22:48:00 - [66] There is a problem with the server. the major cause of this problem is largely the use of insta-jumps/docks. There are two possible solutions. 1. Remove BM's from game. 2. Allow warp to 0. To pirate players what will hurt more loss of shooting new players with out instas ? or lose of all your safe points/sniping warp in points. That is your choice you can not have your cake and eat it too. if you remove BM's the game will lose a lot of its flavor and versatility to PVP. Because if BM's exist in anyway shape or fashion and people will make insta jumps, unless they can warp to 0. As for pirate whining about loss of pvp and ccp didnt intend for warp to 0. look CCP didnt intend for 95% of LOW SEC fighting to occur at the gates. but guess what it has. I remember when CCP first made gate guns in low sec shoot at pirate and made it so the jump in point was the gate (before it was a planet or if you spent time in the system where you spent the most time) Pirates whined then too. I remember when they implemented jump in cloak pirates whined how they couldn't kill things so easily. Before jump in cloak pirates used to fill the space around the gate at jump in with cans and drones to lag anyone out jumping in and kill them before they could defend themselves. Look at the forums 75% of all whining comes form the pirates. in my opinion this makes pirates the biggest carebears in eve.
Belien Jenton	Posted - 2006.11.07 23:02:00 - [67] Originally by: dennyreborn Look at the forums 75% of all whining comes form the pirates. in my opinion this makes pirates the biggest carebears in eve. A brave statement I not a pirate myself but I must admit I love them. Without pirates EVE would be a much more dull place... Also I haven't seen any rat whine or peep in this thread so I guess that the majority of them can see that we really need a working alternative to insta bookmarks. Besides it doesn't really matter much which side of the gate they camp at... Solo sniping might be a bit more limited if this feature makes it to Tranquility - but if that break any rats heart I'm not going to loose any sleep over it
dennyreborn	Posted - 2006.11.07 23:22:00 - [68] Originally by: Belien Jenton Originally by: dennyreborn Look at the forums 75% of all whining comes form the pirates. in my opinion this makes pirates the biggest carebears in eve. A brave statement I not a pirate myself but I must admit I love them. Without pirates EVE would be a much more dull place... Also I haven't seen any rat whine or peep in this thread so I guess that the majority of them can see that we really need a working alternative to insta bookmarks. Besides it doesn't really matter much which side of the gate they camp at... Solo sniping might be a bit more limited if this feature makes it to Tranquility - but if that break any rats heart I'm not going to loose any sleep over it go to the crime and punishment section it is nothing but pirates whineing about warp core stabs (carebears should only be allowed one). later as i lay a warp scramble strength of 5 on the same pirate whining about WCS he manages to warp away. He said something about if the carebears can then they have to. Next most common thing pirates whine about is getting dead space mission runners and how it takes more then 5 minutes to figure out where they are and then they still have to use the acceleration gates to get to them. 3rd most common thing i hear pirates whine about is inertial stabilizers and how it is unfair that firgs and inty can warp away before they can lock them.
Belien Jenton	Posted - 2006.11.07 23:36:00 - [69] True true and true - but I still love them Let them whine but don't let them have their way However - we are getting of topic, and as I said I really can't see how any sensible rat could object to the suggestion in the original post.
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.08 00:25:00 - [70] Ok...I've recovered from my little hissy fit and read all the thread. I think the warp to 0km is a decent workaround to the problem with insta bookmarks and I like the idea of the 15km autopilot. I hope that only the BMs around gates get removed though as safespots and hidden ammo dumps etc need to stay in the game. This solution might even stop the annoying escrow spam a little...and heaven forbid - pirates might actually have to push out to 0.0 a bit more to use bubbles and interdictors rather than preying on the weak at gates popping Velators and such by sniping from 200km in 0.4 etc... Awwww...the poor pirates! HAH! I like all of what I've heard, and the arguments against seem pretty weak from what I've read so far. Though I'm sure there must be some good reasons against that haven't been mentioned yet or CCP would have changed this already.

Belien Jenton	Posted - 2006.11.08 01:06:00 - [71] Originally by: Vyktor Abyss The only real concern mentioned (other than Oveur's invulnerability statement....which is very debatable) that I think is a legitimate concern, is that Empire wars will be severly impacted - It kind of makes paying for a war dec a waste of money as you're only going to catch afk autopiloters etc. You lost me there m8... How is insta bookmarks in highsec any different from warp to 0 Km in highsec? Are you seriously saying that you would not make/buy insta bookmarks for a region in highsec if you engage in a war there ?
LordGodKingBufu	Posted - 2006.11.08 08:03:00 - [72] Warp to 0m = Good Bookmarks = Bad You can argue about the slight technicalities of not having insta bookmarks and 0m warpin's and directional warp paths all you like, but the fact is that hardcore pvp and gate campers are the only ones who are gonna REALLY be effected negatively. The majority of players will appreciate the changes, if only due to the leg reduction. The idea that this will somehow ruin the EVE economy due to the lack of ships being blown up by gate campers is laughable. People are still going to lose almost the same amount of ships. Anyone who is serious about pvp and engages an enemy without a decent set of instas isnÆt gonna last long, so the 0m warp option wont effect them o rthe number of ships destroyed. The only people who are gonna get hammered by this is gate camping kids who pick off newbie pilots without instas in 0.4 systems. I can see a change in warp disrupter bubbles coming to compensate. Maybe allowed in ALL space for people at war, and in <0.5 for all. I cant see CCP just saying here have 0m warp the game is still the same no further changes are needed. Test it on sisi, see what life is like without your BMÆs, cos they donÆt work on the test server now anyway.
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.08 10:11:00 - [73] Originally by: Belien Jenton You lost me there m8... How is insta bookmarks in highsec any different from warp to 0 Km in highsec? Are you seriously saying that you would not make/buy insta bookmarks for a region in highsec if you engage in a war there ? We probably would have to make instas, but we wouldn't bookmark EVERY jump in empire - just the ones we regularly run. Some corp memebers wouldn't even do that coz they are lazy or not on enough to spend the time doing it and would take their chances....unless the threat was really high and proven to be widespread (once a few kill mails come in people buck their ideas up). So there's at least a delay in getting everyone bookmarks following an Empire War dec, and you CAN still be caught out running missions through uncommon routes etc. It is less likely to happen now that people effectively would have instas for EVERY empire jump. Hope that clears it up.
Lothros Andastar Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.08 10:36:00 - [74] Edited by: Lothros Andastar on 08/11/2006 10:38:20 Would it not be easier to have a skill that reduces the warp to distance? or am i missing something bigger here? [On a side note] I think CCP, when they do purge the bookmarks, should only purge those located within 50km of stations and gates IMO. Yes it'll take a little bit more work, but then people wont lose the bookmarks that are intended to be used as they were invisioned, for safespots/ammodumps etc. And is it too hard to set up a little "NO BM MAKING INVISI-BUBBLE OF DOOM" arround all structures with a radius of 25km or so?
Belien Jenton	Posted - 2006.11.08 11:20:00 - [75] Edited by: Belien Jenton on 08/11/2006 11:22:27 Thanks Vyktor Abyss - it did. However I wouldn't say this is a "severe impact" At least the empire wars I've been in, I've very rarely seen pilots without Instas, or not in gangs with at least one member having them... Originally by: Lothros Andastar Would it not be easier to have a skill that reduces the warp to distance? or am i missing something bigger here? It would basicly have the same efffect as warp to 0 Km or however close the skill would put you when trained to level 5. Everybody would train it, so why bother ? Originally by: Lothros Andastar [On a side note] ... And is it too hard to set up a little "NO BM MAKING INVISI-BUBBLE OF DOOM" arround all structures with a radius of 25km or so? When you think about it 25 Km is not enough - pilots could just make new bookmarks placed 30 Km from the gates. You need to make that bubble "max warp to range" +15 Km if you want to prevent insta jumps. However as I said earlier this would seriously hinder long trips imho.
Chief Judge	Posted - 2006.11.09 15:03:00 - [76] Well i agree that CCP should remove all bookmarks 30km of all large structures. It aint hard work i presume and also i think from programmers point of view that it is not so hard to disable future bookmarking in that radius. I am for complete removal of instas.. BUT NOT ALL BOOKMARKS! And there is no need for warp 0 option IMO.. I mean,YOU ALL are supposed to fly light years,between stars!! It aint so easy doing that.. And you would all like to travel from point A to point B instantly! Then why dont we lose jump gates altogether and directly jump from station to station? You say that PvPers would whine if warp to 0 is implemented. Pirates would whine.. Haulers have a hard time traveling.. Well haulers should use alternative routes,going through more secured systems.. Escort corps would develop,mercenaries would get an opportunity.. Corps should be more involved on 0.0 mining ops.. Haulers are not supposed to operate alone in low sec. space anyways, they have no bussines traveling in lawless space unprotected. Teamwork would develop, after all this is a MMO game.. And regarding those ppl who say that the biggest problem in EVE is long time of traveling.. I say: You are too spoiled.. You would like to have everything.. I dont use insta.. I really love the image of vastness of space whiles traveling 10 jumps.. After all i am traveling hundreds of light years in 20 mins!!! I THINK THAT IS PREETY FAST! IMO: Remove instas in 30km radius.. No need for warp 0.. Better teamwork, lets play MMO! Stay cool and beautiful!
dennyreborn	Posted - 2006.11.09 15:35:00 - [77] PIRATES think about this. Yeah warp to 0 harder to gank at the gates. Warp to 0 at a belt and your chances of being in warp scramble range of a miner are much higher. so low sec space belt ganks easier gate ganks harder like the dev intended it.
Noveron Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.13 11:44:00 - [78] hey Vyktor Abyss, sorry for the afaik, I meant afk "away from keyboard" and yes, its a pain in the butt untill you manage to know them meaning for all there are :) About not many people having all regions bookmarks.. ofc there are people that dont have all regions.. but assume 1 char has an average of 1000.. multiply by the number of chars in game.. and increase that number of bookmarks 1% every day (people who sales them, corps that copy them for their members, etc.), plus the lag being made of people copying them over and over.. The real point is, it is never going to stop untill the warp to 0 is implemented. Other solutions are much further away and this one is urgent, easy and pretty clean. Still, there will be many people too lazy to warp manually to 0..so many people will still use the autopilot at 15km.. and yes, pirates will have to pirate the real way, in groups, attack when least spected and hunt their pray in belts , with cloacked ships, etc.. which imo will make the pirate life more thrilling and entertaining. Park in a gate to hunt people down is not pirating I think. Well, im wishing kali to come, among other things.. for the warp to 0!!
Protunia Gallente Horadrim	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:12:00 - [79] Wipe bookmarks!!! the time has come to hold people accountable for their bookmarks. I also think they should limit the number of bookmarks per player. My Character Stats
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:40:00 - [80] Hehe no worries Novaeron I'm getting used to the acronyms a bit more now...SSMDABMB. I've just remembered that Oveur is my alt - either that or he fell for my Jedi mind trick... I say allow using interdictors in low sec and he makes it happen. Hmm...what next? Oveur...You WILL introduce science ships and make research active and not passive... - Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always broke! Science Ships

Noveron Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.14 16:33:00 - [81] Originally by: Vyktor Abyss Edited by: Vyktor Abyss on 14/11/2006 10:13:45 Hehe no worries Noveron I'm getting used to the acronyms a bit more now...SSMDABMB. I've just remembered that Oveur is my alt - either that or he fell for my Jedi mind trick... I say 'allow using interdictors in low sec' and he makes it happen. Hmm...what next? Oveur...'You WILL introduce science ships and make research active and not passive'... Science ships sounds like a neat idea.. how they work or how they do.. you could elaborate that.. but thats offtopic here..make a thread dont be shy :) Oveur is very open to ideas posted here.. he opened to this one.. :) Anything cool and adding extra stuff to the game and not the same boring stuff about turrets, shields, and so on Im sure is welcome.
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.15 11:17:00 - [82] Cheers! I presume you've got 'no signatures' checked...Since my signature contains a link to my post on Science ships. Lordy me I WANT that to happen! :) - Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always broke! Science Ships


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