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MisterAl tt1
Pretenders Inc
W-Space
0
   |
Posted - 2011.11.28 21:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
I know this must've been risen. But still: do something with self-destruct as a tool of not providing the enemy both loot and killmail.
I specificly bring your attention to the fact, that with supers unable to save themselve by logoff - they will SD. And few are the fleets, that can kill a supercapital in two minutes. Hard to imagine the amount or angry people after the first super-capital battle after the patch.
But supers are not my concern. Our corporation live in wormholes. The best pray here is a capital. But around 70% of capitals we ever caught - self-destructed, thus much ruinng the interest. You simply don't often have fleets big enough to kill a capital fast in wormholes.
Options are:
1. Rising SD-timer to 15 minutes for capitals, 30 for supers
2. Generating killmails with the owner of the ship giving "the last blow".
Discuss. |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
157
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 22:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
You forgot the obvious third option:
3. Nothing needs to change.
Mankind has used scuttling to prevent capture of ships/cargo and to block harbours since we first set sail way back in the early days of civilization. E-Peen is the only reason why you could possible want it in Eve and if you really need it to be stroked with such fervour then you have way bigger problems than a mail or two. |
MisterAl tt1
Pretenders Inc
W-Space
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 22:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
This is a game about killing ships, right? Not wathcing the best prey you came for self-destructing. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
172
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 22:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
Simple solution: stop caring so much about KMs.
Seriously, KMs don't do anything, they're just bragging rights. Now, if you're complaining about loot denial, I don't have any issue making self destruct drop a wreck with whatever they would drop if they were killed. But if you're complaining because you're missing out on KMs, you're missing the bigger picture (namely that they're dead and you're not and KMs don't do anything whatsoever). |
Feligast
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
416
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 22:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
And the ship is dead whether you finish it or it self destructs, right? |
MisterAl tt1
Pretenders Inc
W-Space
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 22:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Well. I want loot and I want confirmations that we made it becoming dead :)
Well. I wonder what outrage there will be in 0.0 alliance when 5+ supers will self-destruct, bringing all the officer-loot with them. |
Major Kim
The Night Wardens
Viro Mors Non Est
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 22:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Option 1 is interesting. I'm sure many capital ship pilots would object to this intense increase to the self destruct time.
Example- If I were knowing I was about to loose my capital ship, I would most certainly self destruct if only for the purpose of destroying as much of the ship as possible. (You should be able to scuttle your ship in 2 mins)
Having said that I think that if I were to self destruct my capital there should be a lossmail for it, because it's no longer a ship, but a wreck. Also the killboard's that these corps/alliances work so hard twords should show the losses of multiple capitals that decide to self destruct while in combat.
I think all ships that become destroyed should create lossmails, including pod's as they are soon to have implants on the mail. |
Feligast
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
416
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 22:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
MisterAl tt1 wrote:Well. I want loot and I want confirmations that we made it becoming dead :)
Well. I wonder what outrage there will be in 0.0 alliance when 5+ supers will self-destruct, bringing all the officer-loot with them.
None. At least not from the people I fly with. We denied our enemies the use of five or more supers, we don't care if we get the killmails.. THEY know we killed them. That's all that matters.
edit: Oh, and you can't petition self-destruction for reimbursement for whatever bullshit excuse you want to come up with. So once they die, they stay dead. |
StukaBee
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
58
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 22:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
The better solution is to remove killmails. |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
2385
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 22:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
Stop whining over a KM, it's dead and the jobs done.
CCP Zulu.....
Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
CobaltSixty
The Night Wardens
Viro Mors Non Est
14
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 22:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Friend, if you let a capital self-destruct on you, they were obviously running pimp fit and didn't want the world to know. Overheat your guns next time. (/Troll)
For real now, I understand your pain and I MIGHT support a slight increase in time for the self-destruct timer on capitals and supercapitals however, 15-30 minutes is far too long. More like 5 minutes, perhaps 10 for supercaps (though even that seems a little long).
Regarding the fluff of the matter and justifications; no ship captain would knowingly leave ready-to-go explosive charges all over his vessel as that would be a fire hazard and is the main reason self-destructs are not instantaneous in the first place. Most sci-fi universes involving spaceships that self-destruct typically describe a controlled overload of the ship's power systems to accomplish the actual self-destructing. Starfleet vessels from Star Trek have been described as combining a phased, simultaneous overload of the antimatter and fusion reactors onboard with a *few* ultra-stable-because-it's-the-future explosives planted at structurally strong points to assure sufficient destruction. Bringing it back to EVE now, presumably the systems onboard capitals would take longer to spool to an overload state than those of subcapitals.
Still, we must always be mindful of the killmail ***** in all of us and not let it distract you from the feat you accomplished or at least, forced. Just because someone deprived you of a killmail doesn't mean they didn't lose the ship and everything that was fit to it. ISK loss is ISK loss, and the record of that is less important than the effect if you ask me.
Appealing for self-destructed ships to drop loot and leave a wreck same as any other would be a far cry better than a) forcing them to be killed in the normal fashion or b) giving out what amounts to kill-**** in which there was never any loot to be had. I can't find the quote at the moment but I do recall CCP declaring at one point that self-destructing is meant to be a legitimate tactic to prevent loss of modules to the enemy, however awesome those mods may be. Increasing the self-destruct time SLIGHTLY for capital ships would make this a bit more of a gamble as failing to survive until the suicidal kaboom would net the unfortunate pilot of that ship a much huger e-peen slap to the face than the publishing of an "administrative" killmail.
Assault Ships - Retribution Fix and Balancing Proposal for Upcoming 4th Bonus |
MisterAl tt1
Pretenders Inc
W-Space
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 22:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Example: we cought archon, moros + support. In the middle of the fight our triage Chimera got a client cruch and we lost many ships. Still - they SD both capitals. Why should we look loosers from the KB point of view, since they have actually lost much more? |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
2387
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 22:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
Yea gotta watch that K/D ratio, heaven knows what people will think. 
CCP Zulu.....
Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
206
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 22:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
Previous discussion on Self-destructing (ffs people... use the search functions/tools)
edit: also... use FRAPS or another recording program if you really NEED to prove that you killed something.
"Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one."
~Unknown |
MisterAl tt1
Pretenders Inc
W-Space
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 22:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
thx. Checked " Community proposed ideas" - seems there was nothing about SD there. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
206
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 22:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
EVE-Search is your friend. 
"Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one."
~Unknown |
CobaltSixty
The Night Wardens
Viro Mors Non Est
14
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 23:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
MisterAl tt1 wrote:thx. Checked " Community proposed ideas" - seems there was nothing about SD there.
Ahh, that's why. The thread you're looking for is "Commonly proposed ideas".
Assault Ships - Retribution Fix and Balancing Proposal for Upcoming 4th Bonus |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
178
|
Posted - 2011.11.29 20:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
CobaltSixty wrote:Regarding the fluff of the matter and justifications; no ship captain would knowingly leave ready-to-go explosive charges all over his vessel as that would be a fire hazard and is the main reason self-destructs are not instantaneous in the first place. Most sci-fi universes involving spaceships that self-destruct typically describe a controlled overload of the ship's power systems to accomplish the actual self-destructing. Starfleet vessels from Star Trek have been described as combining a phased, simultaneous overload of the antimatter and fusion reactors onboard with a *few* ultra-stable-because-it's-the-future explosives planted at structurally strong points to assure sufficient destruction. Bringing it back to EVE now, presumably the systems onboard capitals would take longer to spool to an overload state than those of subcapitals.
Fluff aside, explosives can be pretty inert and safe to carry. Why do we give soldiers hand grenades? If its so dangerous to have around, WTF would you carry it on your person? Did you know, you can cook with C4 by burning it and dropping an anvil on it but it doesn't explode? Scary powerful explosive, and those guys are playing around with it in a safe controlled manner.
Yeah, don't need explosives to cause a change reaction. Overload the warp engines, don't divert the energies accumulating cause you pulled the thermal regulators or radiation induction whatitsmahoosits....KABOOM! Easy and simple to explain in Sci-fi terms.
And no need to chance SD mechanics, you try to deny the guy his ship he denies you the KM. You loose or he looses, or you both loose...nothing changes cause the ship is gone. You counter his SD by bringing an appropriate amount of firepower (like overwhelming WTFBBQ!!!) to bare on target by prepairing for it or you loose...simple as that. You have 2 minutes in the first place so plan accordingly or stop bitching (though my preference is instant self destruct of ship in .03 seconds, pod going boom along with it for the tears it can bring to guys like the OP bitching about the word "fair" in the harsh "unfair" universe that is EVE) |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa
Stark Enterprises
849
|
Posted - 2011.11.29 20:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
Hirana Yoshida wrote:You forgot the obvious third option:
3. Nothing needs to change.
Mankind has used scuttling to prevent capture of ships/cargo and to block harbours since we first set sail way back in the early days of civilization. E-Peen is the only reason why you could possible want it in Eve and if you really need it to be stroked with such fervour then you have way bigger problems than a mail or two.
Quote for great justice.
Burn this topic with fire! |
MisterAl tt1
Pretenders Inc
W-Space
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.29 21:14:00 -
[20] - Quote
Aqriue wrote:You counter his SD by bringing an appropriate amount of firepower (like overwhelming WTFBBQ!!!) to bare on target by prepairing for it or you loose...simple as that
Something really close to impossible to do in wormholes. Simple as that.
THen why sub-capitals are to go killboards? Maybe delete killmails at all? |
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