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DOGNOSH
Minmatar
SKULLDOGS
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Posted - 2006.09.08 09:59:00 -
[61]
Edited by: DOGNOSH on 08/09/2006 09:59:24
recently i had a thread locked up,about cloaks being broke,it was meant to be informative until the bug fix(warning peeps to be careful in their covert ops ship)
which meant it slid down the page in to obscurity
at first i was annoyed,and said nothing
now i see why,all i saw was lots of different threads flaming CCP about it,so i would guess ISDs thought my thread would fan this flame too
being a GM or ISD is a very tough job
i salute them 
because if they help 19 out of 20 people and reject just one claim ,we hear about that but not the 19 who were very satisfied
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stop moaning,give CCP a break
mmmm pink Eris will approve - Xorus |
James Snowscoran
Caldari
Coreli Corporation
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Posted - 2006.09.08 10:16:00 -
[62]
 Originally by: Matthew
Originally by: James Snowscoran
Actually, that's not true, I didn't bring up the example myself, and if you had bothered to read my earlier posts you'd know I'm against discussing individual cases of moderation, I was just reposnding because some guy was saying it would've been better to have that issue solved in private, which I don't hold too much faith in tbh.
OK, so the question then becomes, how do you know beforehand which threads are going to be ones like that, with a (debatably) positive effect, and which are going to be the usual useless spam? The balance of probability is heavily skewed towards the spam. If a couple of useful posts, which should be being reported through the proper channels anyway, get suppressed in return for preventing this forum turning from "General Discussion" into "GM Bashing", then that's a price worth paying.
Originally by: James Snowscoran
And your arguing carries other wierd implications too. The GM abusing his priviledges thing was originally someone ganking a rattlesnake (I think?) and going zomg wtf when they found a full stash of officer loot in its hold. Are you seriously suggesting that when something extraordinary happens in EVE, people should shutup because they might be infringing on the comforts of some GM?
Not shut up, no. Just express themselves through the appropriate channels in the appropriate way. Don't trust the petitions cause you think it's a corrupt GM, then email kieron. Don't trust anyone at CCP? Then why are you giving them your money and installing their software on your computer?
(...)
That's the whole problem with the "keeping CCP honest" argument for free forum posting. If you don't trust CCP enough to feel you need that, then you're also not going to trust them enough to believe any solution they post.
Another thing some people seem to take as evidence of cover-ups, is the innocent until proven guilty line taken by CCP in relation to accusations directed at GMs. Imagine if you were that GM. Do you really want GMs that have to fear for their job every time you make a decision someone doesn't like? Do you want players to be able to use that threat to sway GM decisions? That would just make it far harder to give equal treatment to all, rather than preferential treatment to anyone who can muster a forum lynch mob.
The fundamental flaw in your reasoning is that petitions take about 4 weeks to get processed- which means that anyone who wants a quicker response on an issue like this will go to the forums. Emails are also fundamentally broken, and answers can't really be expected in most cases. One could argue, I guess, that if petition queues were no longer than a day, people wouldn't be so quick to go to the forums with their conspiracy theories.
But then again, the deliberate lack of transparency in GM actions must inevitably lead to oconspiracy theories popping up. Just like the 'Devs are in BoB!!!' threads will only stop if the Devs reveal their mains and which alliances they belong to. Mind you, I'm not saying that we need full transparency on these issues, but if we choose not to have it then some general paranoia and conspiracy theories is the price. Cloud something in mystery and you invite speculation.
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Caleb Paine
Infinite Technologies
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Posted - 2006.09.08 10:17:00 -
[63]
Paranoia is good, knowing is boring.
Death smiles at us all, all a man can do is smile back. |
Matthew
Caldari
BloodStar Technologies
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Posted - 2006.09.08 11:04:00 -
[64]
Originally by: James Snowscoran
The fundamental flaw in your reasoning is that petitions take about 4 weeks to get processed- which means that anyone who wants a quicker response on an issue like this will go to the forums.
Petitions filed under the "exploit" and "harassment" categories get considerably faster responses - generally under 10 minutes in my experience. And "situations like this" would fall under one or the other, depending on exactly what you're complaining about.
Originally by: James Snowscoran
Emails are also fundamentally broken, and answers can't really be expected in most cases. One could argue, I guess, that if petition queues were no longer than a day, people wouldn't be so quick to go to the forums with their conspiracy theories.
Your evidence for emails being broken is what, exactly?
I think you overestimate the patience of people on these forums. Looking back at history, the cries of "we're being ignored, it's a cover-up", start coming out within a couple of hours of the first post, let alone even giving it 12 hours so the responsible staff member is actually awake and in the office to know what's going on.
Besides, if you use the proper prioritised petition queues, your petition will probably get seen before anyone at CCP becomes aware of the forum thread you posted at the same time.
Originally by: James Snowscoran
But then again, the deliberate lack of transparency in GM actions must inevitably lead to oconspiracy theories popping up. Just like the 'Devs are in BoB!!!' threads will only stop if the Devs reveal their mains and which alliances they belong to. Mind you, I'm not saying that we need full transparency on these issues, but if we choose not to have it then some general paranoia and conspiracy theories is the price. Cloud something in mystery and you invite speculation.
It's not that we just choose not to have it, it's that there are very good reasons for not having it. Having all the devs reveal which alliances they are in wouldn't stop the conspiracy theories, they would just change to "Devs in <insert alliance here>" instead. Every time someone fighting that alliance CTD'ed, lagged etc, it would be "Dev hax". The team warping right on top of the enemy sniper camp would be dev hax rather than a covert ops ship. The unusually strong raven shield tank would be dev hax instead of a pirate implant set. Large fleets of expensive ships would be dev hax rather than organised industrial ops. And there would still be those speculating that the devs had announced "decoy" mains, and all their alts were really still in BoB. Or that their chars in other alliances were just BoB spies.
That's the problem with conspiracy theories. Any and all evidence intended to disprove them can be dismissed by the theorists as fake and part of the conspiracy.
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There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
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wystler
Forum Moderator
Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2006.09.08 11:16:00 -
[65]
These are the forums which are monitored by ISD. Ingame issues are handled via petitions and answered by GMs. Why SHOULD you comment on something on the forums which have nothing to do with them?
They're too busy answering petitions via the official channels to be watching the forums for questions also.
GMs, like ISD, will NOT comment on another person's case. They will only liase with that person directly, due to privacy and data protection concerns.
There's no tinfoil hattery involved here, its just a case of simple privacy and professional courtesy which assures you that your case will be kept private 
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Caleb Paine
Infinite Technologies
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Posted - 2006.09.08 11:24:00 -
[66]
AND it's an easy way to serve them a nice cup of STFU because you lot have more important things to do than listen to some whiner asking "why" the whole time while he fully understands he did something wrong but doesn't want to confess to it.
Don't tell me you don't love the "click" at times :)
Death smiles at us all, all a man can do is smile back. |
Mrmuttley
House of Tempers
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Posted - 2006.09.08 11:52:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Mrmuttley on 08/09/2006 11:54:48
Originally by: Matthew
It's not that we just choose not to have it, it's that there are very good reasons for not having it. Having all the devs reveal which alliances they are in wouldn't stop the conspiracy theories, they would just change to "Devs in <insert alliance here>" instead. Every time someone fighting that alliance CTD'ed, lagged etc, it would be "Dev hax". The team warping right on top of the enemy sniper camp would be dev hax rather than a covert ops ship. The unusually strong raven shield tank would be dev hax instead of a pirate implant set. Large fleets of expensive ships would be dev hax rather than organised industrial ops. And there would still be those speculating that the devs had announced "decoy" mains, and all their alts were really still in BoB. Or that their chars in other alliances were just BoB spies.
That's the problem with conspiracy theories. Any and all evidence intended to disprove them can be dismissed by the theorists as fake and part of the conspiracy.
MAtthew has a very valid point here. Take any major RL event. I guarantee that in some corner of the internet there is a conspiracy theory about it. Moon landings, JFK, 9/11, Death of Princess Diana, Challenger disaster. John Lennon, the list is endless.
One thing that sometimes people fail to consider is that there may NOT be a cover up afterall. People who play Eve are no different to the rest of the world. There will always be a few people who prefer to believe the paranoia and in doing so reject the reasonable and more likely.
/edit: Of course if you're really paranoid then maybe both Matthew and Myself are Devs posing as regular players to make you think most people think everythings OK with the game. Or possibly we posted " OMG i see there is a coverup afterall" and our posts mysteriously changed to one supportive of the GMs/Devs. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am Dyslexic of Borg.
Your ass will be laminated.
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Eve is not supposed to be fair
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wystler
Forum Moderator
Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2006.09.08 12:07:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Caleb Paine
Don't tell me you don't love the "click" at times :)
No comment 
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.08 12:13:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 08/09/2006 12:13:24
Originally by: Mrmuttley
/edit: Of course if you're really paranoid then maybe both Matthew and Myself are Devs posing as regular players to make you think most people think everythings OK with the game.
I do think that now... 
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Caleb Paine
Infinite Technologies
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Posted - 2006.09.08 12:25:00 -
[70]
Everyone is a BOB alt, oh and every BOB is Oveur's alt. Everyone but YOU.
/points and screams the "Bodysnatchers" style.
Death smiles at us all, all a man can do is smile back. |
DOGNOSH
Minmatar
SKULLDOGS
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Posted - 2006.09.08 12:44:00 -
[71]
wow
i post supporting the hardwork of GMs and ISDs and it got deleted
==========================================
stop moaning,give CCP a break
mmmm pink Eris will approve - Xorus |
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