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Jump Clone Pre-reqs...too high?

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Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.07 08:40:00 - [1] Edited by: Noluck Ned on 07/09/2006 08:42:00 I feel that the neccesity of having to have +8 standing in order to install a jumpclone is far too high. After all, what is the difference between installing a Medical clone in a faction owned station and a Jumpclone? WHy am I allowed to wake up there after pod death but not leave a JC? As things stand now there are 4 ways to get a jumpclone: 1. Grind faction standing to +8, leave your corp, install clone, rejoin your corp. 2. Leave your corp, purchase a jumpclone from aservice provider, join their corp, install clones, leave the corp and rejoin your own. 3. Join a corp in an outpost owning alliance or with docking rights in an outpost. Install clone and be happy. 4. Join a corp which has a +8 standing to NPC corp X. Install clone.....and never ever do missions for the npc corp or allow anyone in the corp to do them in case the standings drop below +8. SO.....now that I have put it on paper it does seem a little ridiculous doesent it. Why should JC's be limited to corps with +8 standings or your own outpost access? As things stand now,the 24 hour jump limit is more than enough of a dampner on possible exploitation of JC's. I would personally like to see the limit lowered but that is not the topic at hand. My real question is: Why the +8 corp standing? there are already ways around it which fall right out of immersive RP...leaving your corp should not be neccesary. A corp member failing a few missions forthe chosen NPC corp should not be enough for the whole corp to losethe ability, asit stands now thats not very realistic, what corporation would allow another to continue tomakeuse of facilities whenthey no longer render any service for them? What I am really asking here is the following. Are JC's so incredibly overpowered that the pre-reqs need to be so strict? Is there any reasons that a day 1 noob should NOT be allowed to train for and install a JC? Is there any real reason that we should NOT be alowed to intall JC's anywhere we can install a normal medical clone, since the NPC corp has no problem whatsoever with us leaving them there and jumping back to em later? No matter if your standings to faction X is -5 we can still jump from and to their stations and install medical clones there,so why not Jump clones as well? Originally by: Posidrive So technically being a pirate is't quite as easy as I thought after reading this guide.
spurious signal Caldari Brainiacs	Posted - 2006.09.07 08:51:00 - [2] I think the way corp standings are calculated is the problem here. Like you say, it seems odd that a single member of a corp failing a few missions would have such a drastic effect on the corp standings as a whole. Maybe corp standings could be buffered in some way, maybe a threshold effect so that it was easier to increase standings but harder for them to decrease. Note I'm not talking about individual standings here but corp-wide standings.
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.07 08:58:00 - [3] Added: The current system also tends to favour older, established corps and places another hurdle for starter corporations to overcome in order for them to compete on the same level as the others. A small merc/pirate corp for example would never be able to provide its members with clones unless it joins anoutpost owning alliance. And not all corp want to be in an alliance. Originally by: Posidrive So technically being a pirate is't quite as easy as I thought after reading this guide.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.07 09:00:00 - [4] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 07/09/2006 09:00:52 I think jump clones should be available for everybody, independent of standings. At least I cant see a reason why not... maybe someone else can? Is it to prevent people from installing jump clones in any npc station in 0.0 perhaps? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.09.07 09:26:00 - [5] The 8.0 standing is fine IMO, it's not that much of an hassle to get that high. Making them universally useable would make it to easy to install them, especialyl at 0.0 pirate corp stations. Now what is IMO annyoing is that they only work with the corp standing. IMO you should be able to install one by having a personel 8.0+ OR a corp 8.0+ standing. If you realyl want to make one you can still do it easily by leaving your corp temporarily, so letting personel standings not apply does nothing to "balance" nything, it's just an annoying hassle.
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.07 09:37:00 - [6] Edited by: Noluck Ned on 07/09/2006 09:40:06 Originally by: Aramendel The 8.0 standing is fine IMO, it's not that much of an hassle to get that high. Making them universally useable would make it to easy to install them, especialyl at 0.0 pirate corp stations. Now what is IMO annyoing is that they only work with the corp standing. IMO you should be able to install one by having a personel 8.0+ OR a corp 8.0+ standing. If you realyl want to make one you can still do it easily by leaving your corp temporarily, so letting personel standings not apply does nothing to "balance" nything, it's just an annoying hassle. I dont suggest we be alowed o install them remotely, we would still need to fly to the station we want it in. But you are right, its nothing but a hassle. However as for the +8 being easy to get...thats only for mission runners. Miners and dedicated pvp'ers are not going to get that easily, it involves at least a month of missioning and then you will still need to leave your corp to get one. Originally by: Posidrive So technically being a pirate is't quite as easy as I thought after reading this guide.
Treelox Amarr Storm Industries	Posted - 2006.09.07 09:42:00 - [7] its not that hard to get jump clones. Just make sure you pick a npc corp no one has used in your corp. Then run those missions. I casually did lvl 2 missions for 2 months, and now our corp has jump clones. If I had tried, or been able to do a higher level of missions, it would have only been a couple of weeks. ------- My sig seemed to disapper, let me try again...
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.07 09:53:00 - [8] Originally by: Treelox its not that hard to get jump clones. Just make sure you pick a npc corp no one has used in your corp. Then run those missions. I casually did lvl 2 missions for 2 months, and now our corp has jump clones. If I had tried, or been able to do a higher level of missions, it would have only been a couple of weeks. I certainly admire your dedication. However this does nothing for the pure PVP'ers, solo miners, traders or anyone else who refuses to "Grind". Suppose one of your new recruits has standings to the npc corp you worked for..where does that leave them? Originally by: Posidrive So technically being a pirate is't quite as easy as I thought after reading this guide.
DaveJ777	Posted - 2006.09.07 09:58:00 - [9] The easiest way is to join a corp with jumpclone standings in some player station, make a clone there, go to empire and jump from where you want the clone in to the player station, install new clone there, head to another empire station, wait 24 hours, jump to player station.... rinse and repeat until you have as many JCs as you have skill for. Then try to get back into your old corp :) ___________________________________________ I win eve! EVE server status:
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.07 10:22:00 - [10] Originally by: DaveJ777 The easiest way is to join a corp with jumpclone standings in some player station, make a clone there, go to empire and jump from where you want the clone in to the player station, install new clone there, head to another empire station, wait 24 hours, jump to player station.... rinse and repeat until you have as many JCs as you have skill for. Then try to get back into your old corp :) Ooh simple and uncomplicated and above all fast and convenient...I like it...NOT. See what I am saying here? Its inconvenient for new player..pointlessly inconvenient. I never said that it couldent be done. What I did say was that the steps to getting one are clunky at best and the +8 pre-req has no real function other than to waste somebodies time. Why do we have to do it the hard way when I can gain the same advantage by podding myself to a new medical clone which I can install anywhere I want. Sure it costs a bit and if you have implants its not an option. But I can install a medical clone anywhere I have assets, why not a jumpclone too? Originally by: Posidrive So technically being a pirate is't quite as easy as I thought after reading this guide.
Treelox Amarr Storm Industries	Posted - 2006.09.07 11:40:00 - [11] Originally by: Noluck Ned However this does nothing for the pure PVP'ers, solo miners, traders or anyone else who refuses to "Grind". as a solo miner, who only mined in high sec at the time, Lvl 2 Kill missions was a much better money maker for me Wednesday, Thursday, and Sunday than mining, just because of the ore spawns and lack of ore on those days. Traders, well the courier missions are back again :) As to the grind, well their aint nothing for free in this game, but the single trit when you find yourself shipless :) Originally by: Noluck Ned Suppose one of your new recruits has standings to the npc corp you worked for..where does that leave them? This is why you chose a non - popular mission running corp, and yes if you have to you make it a req that they have no standing in that corp. Is it a pain in the arse, to get Jump clones? YES!! All it takes is a couple of weeks of dedication and the problem is fixed, its just a matter of organizing your priorities and sacrifices. ------- My sig seemed to disapper, let me try again...
Big Al Free Manure Ask Me How	Posted - 2006.09.07 11:51:00 - [12] I certainly wouldn't have any issues allowing JCs to be easier to come by, but lets argue anyway! Originally by: Noluck Ned 2. Leave your corp, purchase a jumpclone from aservice provider, join their corp, install clones, leave the corp and rejoin your own. Pretty easy imo. It's usually a lot cheaper to pay for this service than standings with a corp offering JCs at their outposts. I used to offer free empire JCs til a bunch of friends joined my corp and ruined all my standings - as soon as this new corp catches up I'll pass it to a 0 standing alt and offer them again. As a newb in the game they aren't hard to come by unless you are completely anti-social. Originally by: Noluck Ned As things stand now,the 24 hour jump limit is more than enough of a dampner on possible exploitation of JC's. I would personally like to see the limit lowered but that is not the topic at hand. Big /agree there. I'd like to see a 2 jump in 24 hour limit, or at least a skill that decreases the time between jumps. I guess there is the possibily for abuse there, I just hate missing out an entire weekend of training without implants while having fun while not risking an expensive knoggin to lag.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.09.07 12:12:00 - [13] Find a corp with medical facilities where one member of your corp has enough standing for JumpClones. Forbit all other pilots to run missions for that corp. Whoever breaks that order get kicked with a nice podding or 5 to fix the corp standing. Smile happily and install all your needed clones. --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.
Hex'Caliber	Posted - 2006.09.07 12:15:00 - [14] The current system is just fine as it is.
Shabesa	Posted - 2006.09.07 12:17:00 - [15] I think because they were designed for rapid deployment of forces to conq 0.0 where you get them w/o any grind. You need to put in some effort or cash, which are basically the same, to meet/get around requirements and that's fine. None should include having to leave corp though. I assume they deemed personal +8 too easy, and it is, but corp standing was a bad coup out. Easier, not easy, way of getting them if you don't have access to conq medical would surely create more targets, no?
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.07 13:38:00 - [16] Originally by: Shabesa I think because they were designed for rapid deployment of forces to conq 0.0 where you get them w/o any grind. You need to put in some effort or cash, which are basically the same, to meet/get around requirements and that's fine. None should include having to leave corp though. I assume they deemed personal +8 too easy, and it is, but corp standing was a bad coup out. Easier, not easy, way of getting them if you don't have access to conq medical would surely create more targets, no? I was under the mistaken impression that they where created to encourage people to try 0.0/lowsec without risk to their implants. The point of this post is, I suppose, to point out that the process of aquiring them is clunky atm. Also I dont see why they shouldent be something people could use from day 1. They are not overpowered and not exploitable, but the fact is that many people dont have them when infact everybody should. I repeat my point that NPC corps havr no problem with you installing a medical clone and that no matter what your standings you can leave a jump clone anywhere in any station without any standing req's... its only installing em that can be a pain in the neck. This is not consistent. Originally by: Posidrive So technically being a pirate is't quite as easy as I thought after reading this guide.
OverKill Caldari Hadean Drive Yards	Posted - 2006.09.08 20:24:00 - [17] Personally I find the jump clone prereqs very restrictive... As many of you have said, you can get around them by leaving a Corporation, joining a new one (or making a new one if your standings are 8.0 and above), installing your clones and then rejoining your old Corporation. That sorta defeats the purpose and allows a loophole. For just about everyone but CEO's of long established Corporations. HDY has been around for 4 years now, since day 1 of EVE and it is far from easy to simply get a Corporation standing of 8.0 with a specific NPC corp. Sure, I could send all the guys out and run agent missions for them until we're blue in the face but then any new potential recruit into the corp either has to have a standing at least 8.0 or none at all. Sorta restrictive don'tcha think? I think they should ditch the Corporation standing and make that Personal standing. This way people can install jump clones for strategic use or simply to try 0.0 or whatever. You still have to grind you way up there and earn it but allowing a Former Pirate Turned Do-Gooder with a bad Rep won't destroy your chances of getting the jump clone installed. I don't understand the logic behind the current system and I don't know all the reasons behind it but from what is visible to me its a poorly thought out system.
DukDodgerz	Posted - 2006.09.08 20:29:00 - [18] Originally by: OverKill Personally I find the jump clone prereqs very restrictive... As many of you have said, you can get around them by leaving a Corporation, joining a new one (or making a new one if your standings are 8.0 and above), installing your clones and then rejoining your old Corporation. That sorta defeats the purpose and allows a loophole. For just about everyone but CEO's of long established Corporations. HDY has been around for 4 years now, since day 1 of EVE and it is far from easy to simply get a Corporation standing of 8.0 with a specific NPC corp. Sure, I could send all the guys out and run agent missions for them until we're blue in the face but then any new potential recruit into the corp either has to have a standing at least 8.0 or none at all. Sorta restrictive don'tcha think? I think they should ditch the Corporation standing and make that Personal standing. This way people can install jump clones for strategic use or simply to try 0.0 or whatever. You still have to grind you way up there and earn it but allowing a Former Pirate Turned Do-Gooder with a bad Rep won't destroy your chances of getting the jump clone installed. I don't understand the logic behind the current system and I don't know all the reasons behind it but from what is visible to me its a poorly thought out system. uhhh, you want logic...yaaaaaaa, don't hold your breath... ☺ FRODO HAS FAILED; BUSH HAS THE RING!!! The HippoKing spots a new post
Svanh Mickahl Infinite Dreams Inc Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.09.08 20:32:00 - [19] I personally would like to see them drop jump clones, I feel they take away from the immersion on the game. if you want to be at a different location then TRAVEL there. Otherwise make use of the place you are, hence a tiny bit of realism.. For limitless possibilities, you need Infinite Dreams ====================================== Svanh Mickahl CEO, Infinite Dreams
DeadRow True Core	Posted - 2006.09.08 20:35:00 - [20] I believe, as someone has already stated, the problem lies in the way the corp average is made. 8 personal standings is easy to get to, its just the corp standings with is the pain in the arse.
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.09.08 21:08:00 - [21] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 07/09/2006 09:00:52 I think jump clones should be available for everybody, independent of standings. At least I cant see a reason why not... maybe someone else can? Is it to prevent people from installing jump clones in any npc station in 0.0 perhaps? Perhaps they could add clones that can't jump for people without the standing. That way, if you want to go into lowsec and PvP or whatever you don't have to fear losing your implants. Give them a 12hr cool down instead of 24hr as well. Just a thought, good idea bringing it up. ~~~~~~~~~ I wish my lawn was EMO so it would cut itself. I approve of this message.
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.09.08 21:09:00 - [22] Originally by: Svanh Mickahl I personally would like to see them drop jump clones, I feel they take away from the immersion on the game. if you want to be at a different location then TRAVEL there. Otherwise make use of the place you are, hence a tiny bit of realism.. Jumpclones aren't always for travel... They are to save implants and have "training" clones, "specialized" clones, etc. ~~~~~~~~~ I wish my lawn was EMO so it would cut itself. I approve of this message.
MicanG Amarr Dark Reality	Posted - 2006.09.08 23:18:00 - [23] It is my understanding, that jumpclones were designed for motherships and conquarable stations/outposts, places were corps can set standings towards other player/corps. To give them an advantage in defending the station/outpost/mothership. And not for the "normal/average" player. Maybe i'm wrong, dunno Anyway, If someone needs some jumpclones, click my signature click the signature.
ObiDoom Kenobi Gallente The Senators of The Confederation	Posted - 2006.09.09 11:58:00 - [24] Originally by: MicanG Anyway, If someone needs some jumpclones, click my signature Your sig is too cool to click :) Jump clones are a cool element added to the game. But just like getting a HAC or another very advanced ship it requires an effort. In this case the effort is grinding missions, or circumventing it by spending ISK to a jump clone service. I'm a casual player, I don't PVP, and I have four jump clones installed (just in case). I think of all the things in EVE that the developers could look at overhauling the jump clone system needs to be near the bottom of the list of things to do.
D'onryu Shoqui Gallente Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.09 13:17:00 - [25] should be based on personal standing and not corp, i know someone who managed to get my old corp jump clones in less than a week but only because he found a corp that noone else had standings to, thats not always possible in larger corps though, we had to kick quite alot of alts and chars that havent logged in for sometime.
Hippo117 Caldari 9th Fleet Academy	Posted - 2006.09.09 14:14:00 - [26] I support the way they are already for a few reason. first, it is not hard to get a +8 standing with a corp using even lvl3 agents. 2 weeks from lvl4 to begin with, and most high quality lvl4 agents take around a 6.9 stnading. 4 missions later, bam. It also encourages people to become a 0.0 pvper. Not just the kind of person who mines all day and sticks their head into 0.0 to go ratting and doesnt want to have to fly their implant clone in. (I say this because the mission runners are irrelevant because they'd already have a +8, and leaving your corp for a whole of 5 minutes is not a big deal. I do however sully support it using personal standings instead of corp alltogether, but the proscess is already easy and need not be changed to make it easier. -------------- My opinions may not represent the opinions of my corporation or alliance. Booby > Rokh Caldari != win button.

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