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I thought they said they wouldnt do this?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Malakai0 Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.09.07 17:57:00 - [31] I'd much rather see T2 ammo reworked than the optimal/faloff for all turrets nerfed. Sniping wasn't too bad before T2 ammo. I disagree about T2 torps though. They have very strong penalties, and guns > missles in fleet engagements/blobs. _________________________ - We are Eye Of God, being so, we see the big picture. - Axiom is a self-evident truth upon which other knowledge must rest AND if its not self-evident to you, thats what
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.09.07 17:58:00 - [32] Originally by: Testy Mctest Originally by: Ithildin * Target painting for a few seconds NOOOOOOO ITHILDIN NOOOOOOOOOOOO! Any idea that makes a million Matari cry out in agony gets my 100% support. /signed. But all kidding aside, T2 ammo is assinine. Why work so hard to boost tanking, then just gimp it by upping damage again? T2 sniper ammo renders noobs useless to fleet fights which goes directly against one of Eve's defining characteristics; Higher SPs just make you a % better, not 100% better. Furthermore, some T2 ammo is so much better they had to gimp it to uselessness like Hail and small rockets/missiles. Larger T2 missiles are just hands-down better than T2 gun ammo. Like Testy, I use it all the time because I've adapted but I still want to see it fixed. Fix T2 Ammos. It REALLY needs to be done for gameplay. T2 Ammo should equal more variety. T2 Ammo should not be more damage or "stupidly better than T1 so now T1 is useless". Nyxus Originally by: Tux The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
OrangeAfroMan Suffoco Noctis Atrocitas	Posted - 2006.09.07 18:52:00 - [33] Originally by: Testy Mctest Signed, T2 ammo bores the life out of me. In addition to which, as well as missiles being > guns already, T2 ammo compounds the problem farther as T2 Missiles > T2 Ammo. Even though I use it all day every day, I'd like to see it nerfed hard. Balance, please. Totally QFT, I use it but balance > me. Gronsak is Tux's angry alt.
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2006.09.07 19:05:00 - [34] Originally by: Blind Man t1 ammo damage, secondary effects. No shipwide penalties, either.
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest	Posted - 2006.09.07 19:07:00 - [35] /signed Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Max Hardcase Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.09.07 21:07:00 - [36] /signed Back to the drawing board for tech2 ammo please. ps. When you re-design tech2 laser crystals make em last 100-200 shots and make em cheaper to build.
Attak Trioptimum Storm Armada	Posted - 2006.09.07 21:25:00 - [37] signed! T1 damage/range + effects please.
Kurian thurizar Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2006.09.07 21:41:00 - [38] please nerf T2 ammo, I want the Rokh to completely dominate fleet battles. 100km? please, a rohk pilot will be debateing weather to use antimatter or plutonium.
Sovereign533 Caldari 133rd Ghost Wing R i s e	Posted - 2006.09.07 22:22:00 - [39] i like my Spike though ^_^ Second sig removed, only 1 signature graphic please - Xorus ^_^WOOHOO!!! my Sig finally got nerfed... i'm 1337 now...
Areconus	Posted - 2006.09.07 23:01:00 - [40] Edited by: Areconus on 07/09/2006 23:00:58 Originally by: Spaced Skunk I hate javelin torps, they are as fast as cruise, more precise and same as t1 damage?!?!?1 Its more precise CCP, it should do less damage than its t1 version. I hate Null, gives gallente the strenght of what minmatar did before t2 ammo was released, accuracy falloff. Ever since the Null release and boosted tracking bonus, I have never ever beaten a blasterthron with t2 guns solo in a tempest. Not fair tbh. 100% range ammo should have a -100& velocity penalty, forcing the sniper to actually stay still, kind of find the people who use that ammo, like low sec snipers, are always aligned for warp, I dont think they should have that advantage. High damage ammo for long ranged weapons should be given a signature resolution penalty. So the ship just cant warp in a gank a ship before it gets too close, has to be some form of gang ammo. A lot of the t2 ammo is needed for a nerf. I definatly think javelin torps need a nerf on damage or precision. Hey what are you talking about...jav torps aren't pwnzor!....................
Durindana Gallente Solar Wind Distant Star Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.07 23:14:00 - [41] Originally by: OrangeAfroMan Originally by: Testy Mctest Signed, T2 ammo bores the life out of me. In addition to which, as well as missiles being > guns already, T2 ammo compounds the problem farther as T2 Missiles > T2 Ammo. Even though I use it all day every day, I'd like to see it nerfed hard. Balance, please. Totally QFT, I use it but balance > me. /signed
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.09.08 00:31:00 - [42] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 08/09/2006 00:32:46 Been saying that T2 amo should be T1+ small special bonus since I saw T2 amo stats. People will still use T2 guns, but using T2 amo will be situation-dependent, and create new tactical variation. I abuse the heck out of T2 amo because I compete in PvP. Do I like doing so? Not really. Please, CCP, rather than boosting tanks further and making the difference even wider between have and have-not's for T2 amo just fix T2 amo and allow your previous tanking changes to act properly! //Maya
Syris Anu Evolutionary Pressure	Posted - 2006.09.08 00:55:00 - [43] Edited by: Syris Anu on 08/09/2006 00:56:15 I completely disagree. If anything, T2 guns and ammo, at least for guns, need to be buffed, not nerfed. Do you have any idea how many skill points and how much time it takes to use large T2 guns and how the medium and small skills and specs are totally useless when using large, etc.? That's millions of skillpoints doing nothing. If you specialize that hard in something, you should reap the rewards. It will take you longer to train this skill tree than most people stay in the game. Sure, that puts the specialist at an advantage over the generalist, but with good reason. The other thing I don't think you are factoring in is that to use the tech II weaponry, you have to have really high skills in that category in general. Tech II doesn't really give you that much of an advantage in and of itself, it's being a c.rack shot in general with any gun that inflates its perceived effectiveness. You need to separate out the bonuses of tech II from the high level of skill in, say, general gunnery skills before calling for nerf. The actuall bonuses stemming solely form the tech II guns and ammo is not actually that large, especially when their deficits are taken into account. Disclaimer that I have only researched tech II guns amd ammo thoroughly, I don't know about missiles.
Phi Crysae Gallente Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.09.08 00:57:00 - [44] /Signed "[ 2006.09.04 21:52:27 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo hits Alpha Raven [RAT.]<.-A-.>(Scorpion), doing 739.3 damage." I know its VS a BS but this is still a little rediculus. Considering I only have warhead upgrades lvl 2. Also I knoew Void ammo is way out of line. Ive gotten 300+ hits with small neutrons on my ranis and thats just too much. I really like the idea of similar damage output as T1 but with side effects like splash damage, neut, and maybe even webber hits ei, max -25% speed for 5 sec for excellent hit, down to -0% for misses. Meh, just an idea, though it's likely to get me flamed anyways, something needs to be done with T2 ammo. Right now fleet fighting is exactly like fighting was done in the 1700's, eveyone get as many guns as possible, stand in a line, and take turns shooting each other My 2 cents
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2006.09.08 01:45:00 - [45] Originally by: Syris Anu Edited by: Syris Anu on 08/09/2006 01:25:35 Edited by: Syris Anu on 08/09/2006 00:56:15 I completely disagree. If anything, T2 guns/launchers and ammo, at least for guns, need to be buffed, not nerfed. Do you have any idea how many skill points and how much time it takes to use large T2 guns and how the medium and small skills and specs are totally useless when using large, etc.? That's millions of skillpoints doing nothing. If you specialize that hard in something, you should reap the rewards. It will take you longer to train this skill tree than most people stay in the game. Sure, that puts the specialist at an advantage over the generalist, but with good reason. The other thing I don't think you are factoring in is that to use the tech II weaponry, you have to have really high skills in that category in general. Tech II doesn't really give you that much of an advantage in and of itself, it's being a c.rack shot in general with any gun that inflates its perceived effectiveness. You need to separate out the bonuses of tech II from the high level of skill in, say, general gunnery skills before calling for nerf. The actuall bonuses stemming solely form the tech II guns and ammo is not actually that large, especially when their deficits are taken into account. Disclaimer that I have only researched tech II guns amd ammo thoroughly, I don't know about missiles. I think 100% range boost compared to 60% range boost is a big difference, don't you? I think a 25% damage boost is a big difference, don't you? I will admit that alot of the balance between certain t2 ships now is based on how t2 ammo works, however. Take t2 ammo away and the crow will be even stronger in relative to the taranis or claw and especially crusader, for one example. Mostly because t2 rockets and lights suck.
Elenath Gallente The Vindaloo Enema Disasters	Posted - 2006.09.08 02:15:00 - [46] Signed. T2 ammo is ridiculous. The fact that people have trained for it, love it, and still want it nerfed to improve balance speaks volumes. Why the Devs are so incredibly slow to move on this (while not surprising... seeing they never do anything without thinking about some numbers for six months) is sad. However... Originally by: Testy Mctest In addition to which, as well as missiles being > guns already, T2 ammo compounds the problem farther as T2 Missiles > T2 Ammo. More anecdotal crying about missiles. If the people who cried about them actualy used them they would realize that the above statement is only half accurate. Guided t2 missiles are total crap (rockets, lights, heavies, cruises)... while t2 torps are indeed over-powered. The reason for this is a good missile specialist will have high enough skills that effect guided missiles that any real benefit derived from the t2 ammo bonus will be redundant and nearly useless. The real problem is specifically - precision torps. That is coming from a 15 million point missile specialist. The penalty on t2 rockets cripple a frigate or inty.
Aeaea XanoTech	Posted - 2006.09.08 02:28:00 - [47] Originally by: Syris Anu Edited by: Syris Anu on 08/09/2006 01:25:35 Edited by: Syris Anu on 08/09/2006 00:56:15 I completely disagree. If anything, T2 guns/launchers and ammo, at least for guns, need to be buffed, not nerfed. Uhm. Do you realize that a maximum trained Tech II gun has 32% greater damage then a maximum trained Tech I weapon? Do you realize that people still trained for Tech II guns before the ammo? Do you think that having the same damage at 200KM that a Tech I can't even reach at 50KM is fair? Tech II Ammo is so horribly unbalanced compared to Tech I it's not even funny.
Cerberal Minmatar Hmmzor. Muffins of Mayhem	Posted - 2006.09.08 02:42:00 - [48] <---would prefer noone got rid of Barrage ammo. Its been one of 3 things that make me feel good about specialising minmatar. If you contribute in removing my overall "Good feeling", i will hunt you down and cut you.
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.09.08 02:58:00 - [49] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 08/09/2006 02:58:42 Originally by: Syris Anu I completely disagree. If anything, T2 guns/launchers and ammo, at least for guns, need to be buffed, not nerfed. Do you have any idea how many skill points and how much time it takes to use large T2 guns and how the medium and small skills and specs are totally useless when using large, etc.? That's millions of skillpoints doing nothing. People used T2 guns WELL before T2 amo came out. They DO provide a base bonus, which is not inconsiderable, due to the specalisation skill AND they are cheaper than the best named. "All" T2 amo does is make a mockery of the tanking changes, makes sniping a win-button and makes certain ships like the Vagabond far too powerful. For the first three in a whole list of abuses you can chalk up to T2 amo. It dosn't have problems, it IS a problem. Cerberal, you can't mix and match. It all has to go. //Maya
xeom Veto.	Posted - 2006.09.08 03:04:00 - [50] I wouldn't redo all the ammos.Infact some of the ammos out now work rather well.And arn't totaly overpowered. For instance null,barrage,and most t2 missles. But ammos such as void(to much DPS) and hail(selfwebbing) need to be looked at more closely. --- CCP where are our t2 shield power relays?
Envoy6	Posted - 2006.09.08 07:04:00 - [51] Originally by: Blind Man t1 ammo damage, secondary effects. qft
Minama Caldari StarLight Inc. Tre Kroner	Posted - 2006.09.08 07:16:00 - [52] Signed As said above, T1 damage and range, secondary effects /[SLI]Minama
Dred 'Morte Sabre Inc Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.09.08 07:33:00 - [53] I just want lasers to do other dmgs like kinetic so I can pwn these guristas :) Signature made by Mr Floppykickners
Happster Polaris Project	Posted - 2006.09.08 10:06:00 - [54] Edited by: Happster on 08/09/2006 10:08:07 Consider the huge difference in skill points needed between T1 and T2 projectile ammo, there should be a good reward to aim for T2 ammo. The skills needed to use T1 compared to T2 is like 5% SP if not less..... I would say Hail looks good as it is now......something to aim for.... But for the T2 Artillery Ammo......well....seems to me the dam it does is way too low...you find T1 ammo doing more damage.... What i also find odd is that Autocannon T2 ammo has way better dam and way better RoF then Artillery T2 ammo...... Only thing Artillery T2 ammo got going for them is the range :\ From what i can see theres a huge difference between Autocannon T2 ammo and T2 Artillery Ammo.....in what actually get from doing all those SP. Please do not remove the point in going for T2 ammo :)
Vathar Elegance	Posted - 2006.09.08 10:22:00 - [55] We already get damage increase through T2 turrets, if you had more on top of that through T2 ammo, it gets just silly! Must be the first time that I actually write a "/signed" in a so-called petition; but I agree that, IMO, ccp took one step forwards when they reworked stacking, increased tanking, reworked missiles ... But two backwards when they gave precision missiles to go bakc to the old days of pwning frigs with cruise, hi damage short range ammo to get higher dps than before, and sniper ammo to make fleet battles even less tactical! The only difference is that it requires more skills to do so. I'm all for high skills giving you an edge, but not THAT much! Oh, and ammo penalties stacking are just ridiculous ... try fitting a sabre with hail S and cry ^^ _ Originally by: Stamm Minmatar are kind of like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair firing an uzi
Happster Polaris Project	Posted - 2006.09.08 10:33:00 - [56] Originally by: Vathar Edited by: Vathar on 08/09/2006 10:29:25 We already get damage increase through T2 turrets, if you had more on top of that through T2 ammo, it gets just silly! Euhm...you get named T1 doing just as much dam as T2 does....
Jenstruant Fogg	Posted - 2006.09.08 11:10:00 - [57] Edited by: Jenstruant Fogg on 08/09/2006 11:11:07 Originally by: Anaka Totoch A corp mate of mine flies a mega and fits two damage mods and large neutron t2 he gets 1400 dps with his drones and has a MASSIVE tank. Shows just how much you know....
Karandor	Posted - 2006.09.08 13:01:00 - [58] Originally by: Happster Originally by: Vathar Edited by: Vathar on 08/09/2006 10:29:25 We already get damage increase through T2 turrets, if you had more on top of that through T2 ammo, it gets just silly! Euhm...you get named T1 doing just as much dam as T2 does.... The specilization skills only effect T2 guns, not to mention T2 guns are readily available. Most "scout" versions of AC and Arties in MH region are incredibly exspensive or impossible to get your hands on.
Vathar Elegance	Posted - 2006.09.08 13:12:00 - [59] Oh, and also, many "best named" T1 items are just as good as T2, and quite often even better, so I don't complain about best named T1 turrets being nearly as good as T2. Plus the fact that I'm not for totally removing T2 ammo, just doing something different and more tactical with this than dps ... _ Originally by: Stamm Minmatar are kind of like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair firing an uzi
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents	Posted - 2006.09.08 16:48:00 - [60] Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 08/09/2006 16:48:52 While it's amusing demolishing another Battleship in 29 seconds or less, Void L and Null L have made named/faction blasters completely redundant. Change it to secondary effects rather than just increased damage so it's not a 'use all the time ammo' - I like Ithildins suggestions... ---------- - Office Linebacker -

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