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Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.07 15:36:00 - [1] This is not a thred about back when the Megathron could fit four launchers. It's not a thred about when the Scorpion was a railgun ship with optimal range bonus. It's a thred about how (I feel) the devs have stopped talking to us. I turn to all the older players. Those who've been with the game for more than two years and remember Castor patching, etc. Back in the days we didn't have EON, we didn't have proper new channels, the blogs were shorter, the forums smaller. We were a smaller bunch of players and marveled over 7,000 players online on a busy sunday. T2 ammo abomination was but a rumour and TomB told us that it was wasn't ever going to be released. Most of us were struggling to get battleships. We didn't even have fancy "in development" CCP release patches now, and they released patches then. The patch notes were always lacking, of course, but something's different now a days. I cannot help but feel that the devs aren't talking to us as much as they used to. No offence to Jiekron (sp?) or the others who do the best to brighten our moods, I'm talking mostly about game balance and game contents devs. And patch notes. We used to have these large threds or dev blogs with patch information. They used to come weeks in advance. They used to be "we're thinking about doing this" and then when patch comes "we're doing this". Today we get patch notes while server is being patched - and we can't read them since forums are down. Even worse is that all the flashy information about new contents is released through EON only and those of us who do not feel like paying for a magazine with 80% gibberish (I'm not interested in what CYVOK has to say, and those ship tests are always so wrong anyway since it's so subjective, OK?) have to ask mates who did buy it to read/scan/lend the paper to you. It's not even released in large enough batches to cover 10% of the EVE players. Does anyone else feel the same way? That information about the future gameplay of EVE has been nerfed over the years. More information channels with more words and less information. Devs at CCP, could you talk with us once more? - Base insurance payout: 40% of ship base price Platinum cost: 33% of ship base price Platinum payout: 100% of ship base price Ship base prices can be found in CCP's Item Database.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.07 15:41:00 - [2] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 07/09/2006 15:43:03 Well, I havent been here 2 years, but I spend alot of time in the forums. All I see is whine, whine, whine these days from the playerbase. Of course the devs arent going to feel like talking to them/us. Maybe the playerbase was more mature back then? Also I think the game was new so the devs were more interested in getting feedback etc. These days its like no matter what ccp says, somebody thinks there is a conspiracy going on and that they spend more time counting money than working on the game. I cant blame them for spending less time in the forums. Wouldnt you do the same? Also they have said in the blogs that they prefer to blog their replies instead of answering to some forum post that will be hard to find for people. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Agnar Koladrov Gallente Hurricane Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.07 15:44:00 - [3] Even though my char is 1 year and 2 month old, so im not a really old player. But I do notice a differance compared even to last year. Remember the MK2 threads, fenominal they were (as in informative and fun discussions), with good informations and ideas in there. But now, maybe it is because of the summer holidays that there is little respons from the dev team, I dunno really. Maybe they are just sick of the *****ing of the majority of ppl, with that I mean the "tone" in some and rather large number of discussions. ________________________________________________ Bring The Stabber in line with the other two versions. Add a 4th low!
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.07 15:44:00 - [4] Edited by: Ithildin on 07/09/2006 15:46:51 Well... yes. It was more mature back then. Read Ships and Modules forum and go back to page 1105 or something. Found a post called "Why does TomB hate Caldari", and while it was basically whining, it was done in an arguing form rather than me-wants-now form (and yes, Caldari missiles really did suck back then). But still, two points remain CCP needs to go back and get better at: * releasing information about what they intend to implement * releasing information about what is to come in next patch Can be easily done by having someone update the in-development and in-testing sections. You shouldn't need to buy a fan-mag to get to know their visions. You shouldn't need to know the devs personally to get to know what's slated for the next patch when it comes to game balance. - Base insurance payout: 40% of ship base price Platinum cost: 33% of ship base price Platinum payout: 100% of ship base price Ship base prices can be found in CCP's Item Database.
Benco97 Gallente Cosmic Odyssey Chorus of Dawn	Posted - 2006.09.07 15:51:00 - [5] Yes, I remember the old days of EVE, when it was young. They are still trying to talk to us you know, can't you feel that? it's us that is stopping them now. I've always cried my love for the mods/devs/gods of CCP, i've seen them all, name a game and i've played it but CCP guys were the best, still are in my opinion, it's US that have changed. The influx of fresh blood brought a new breath to Eve but it seems to have drowned our mature side, the very foundation roots of our little society. reading as many threads, mails and scraps as I can from CCP I see that they are still trying as they were back then and I feel sorry for the ones who have to deal with us these days, it's the players doing a disservice to the Game, not the other way around. I'm sorry if that doesn't make any sense..but those are my feelings on the matter, from my secret heart. Head of the Fedo Appreciation Group (F.A.G) and Registered Fedo breeder
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.07 15:56:00 - [6] Originally by: Ithildin But still, two points remain CCP needs to go back and get better at: * releasing information about what they intend to implement * releasing information about what is to come in next patch I would love some more discussions about what they are planning to do too. But I do remember them listening to the blog comments when it came to the design of Contracts for example. People wanted it global, and they made it possible to at least view it globally. So thats good. Some other blogs havent been so good... I would have loved some more actual discussion with Tuxford about the tier 3 battleship bonuses, but he doesnt comment much on it. I have to admit its frustrating, and I think alot of the whine lately might actually be because he doesnt comment on some of the ship balancing threads that keep popping up (about the same things). --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Pestillence Revelations Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.07 15:56:00 - [7] I sort of agree. I think the communication is good in general. I think there's a difference between what CCP say they are going to do and what they actually do. We are promised improvements around the corner and Kali was quoted as the magic bullet for everything for the past year. Now that Kali is imminent we'll find out that it didn't actually address the things we were lead to believe it would. Instead it will be implemented or fixed SoonÖ Or maybe I'm just jaded...
Laythun Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.07 15:57:00 - [8] time are different. the eve-o forums used to be a source of knowledge and a place to talk constructively about problems. But recently....its just whine whine moan moan by all the wannabe bedroom gamers that theink there experts on server systems. Its a shame. when i joined it was great, the forums were reverred and you'd dare not post on them unless you have a constructive thing to say. Maybe its down to the explosion in numbers, i dont know, but i see a lot of people (expecially new people) thinking these boards are for general whinage about the game. and its sad, the newer community (not all) is letting the game down. Letting everyone down. Today i see a post about a retriever being popped in 0.4, i mean W T F, was that thread worthy? i dont think so. people these days seem to want to whine and have stuff changed instead of still believing in CCP's vision. they may not get it right all the time, but whining and hitting the boards with any little problem WILL never be the solution. Quite honestly i dont blame the devs for not showing up on the forums as much, i mean if you scan the top 20 threads, gurantee most are whines, with no constructive criticism. Its a shame. *See You In Space Cowboy*
Labtest	Posted - 2006.09.07 15:57:00 - [9] Edited by: Labtest on 07/09/2006 15:58:51 I agree with you Ithildin, it seams something has changed over at CCP for the past 6-8 months maybe more. Just look at how the horrible stacking penatly affected amarr and now months later no dev has even commented on it. Its redicilous. what was the point of that stacking penalty really? It was rubbish. There has been many older players that has spoken their mind for the past month or so. You are not alone.
Labtest	Posted - 2006.09.07 16:00:00 - [10] Originally by: Laythun Quite honestly i dont blame the devs for not showing up on the forums as much, i mean if you scan the top 20 threads, gurantee most are whines, with no constructive criticism. Its a shame. They dont have to reply to all the rubbish whines, but they could share their thoughts about what they are doing and how/why they are doing it.
Weirda Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.09.07 16:13:00 - [11] Originally by: Labtest They dont have to reply to all the rubbish whines, but they could share their thoughts about what they are doing and how/why they are doing it. they do - more then any other game. period. __ Weirda Join QOTSA Now
Labtest	Posted - 2006.09.07 16:15:00 - [12] Originally by: Weirda Originally by: Labtest They dont have to reply to all the rubbish whines, but they could share their thoughts about what they are doing and how/why they are doing it. they do - more then any other game. period. Read op's post. Period.
Weirda Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.09.07 16:17:00 - [13] Originally by: Benco97 Yes, I remember the old days of EVE, when it was young. They are still trying to talk to us you know, can't you feel that? it's us that is stopping them now. qft. every time a dev DOES come out, a pack of angry immature wolf tear them apart. tell them they 'fail at life'. start 30 more threads about how retarded they are and whine at 3am iceland time about them not responding NOW. oveur have stated in a recent blog their reasons for NOT answering all the threads (has more to do with giving us BETTER more SOLID information), but trying to make up communication in dev blogs and limited responses. __ Weirda Join QOTSA Now
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.09.07 16:19:00 - [14] Originally by: Jim McGregor Well, I havent been here 2 years, but I spend alot of time in the forums. All I see is whine, whine, whine these days from the playerbase. Of course the devs arent going to feel like talking to them/us. Best way to stop a baby from crying is to give it a bottle. The devs (recently) have been lacking in giving us a nipple to suck on. Just my .02 I await Kali, but I have to tell you I'm getting pretty sick of waiting for SOMETHING. I mean, we have what less than a month to Kali? Practically no info. ~~~~~~~~~ I wish my lawn was EMO so it would cut itself. I approve of this message.
Labtest	Posted - 2006.09.07 16:20:00 - [15] Edited by: Labtest on 07/09/2006 16:20:56 Originally by: Weirda you are a good example of why devs do not post here (and why weirda rarely post here anymore). or at least your post is. Is that so? Its obvious you failed to connect my reply with the op's post. I never said they dont reply, yet in your brain you somehow read that I wrote just that.
EvilNate Caldari Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2006.09.07 16:21:00 - [16] I can see both sides of the coin. When the devs talk to us, there tends to be alot of whining, but tbh, there is alot to whine about now days. Nate. -------- www.bydi.org - Mercanaries for Hire
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.09.07 16:27:00 - [17] Originally by: Benco97 Yes, I remember the old days of EVE, when it was young. They are still trying to talk to us you know, can't you feel that? it's us that is stopping them now. I've always cried my love for the mods/devs/gods of CCP, i've seen them all, name a game and i've played it but CCP guys were the best, still are in my opinion, it's US that have changed. Are you kidding me? That is NOT the reason the devs don't talk to us. You really think they care that much? If they do they are a bunch of babies. They supply us with a game and thus we expect certain things from them. God forbid that someone actually gets upset!!! As a playerbase should we really sit down and think... Man, maybe I should just not worry at all about where my $15 a month is goin. Dude, it's a game that WE PAY FOR. It's their job to provide us with information. I'm sick of this being blamed on an increasingly immature playerbase. Take WoW for example... Ummm hello (Most immature playerbase in the world)!!! Do you see how many dev posts there are in their forums? Sincerely, Not a Fan Boy ~~~~~~~~~ I wish my lawn was EMO so it would cut itself. I approve of this message.
Auldare Soundless Storm	Posted - 2006.09.07 16:28:00 - [18] I think it's playerbase that has changed and over time it has burnt out the devs/gms etc Think about it this way... How long would seeing page upon page of people critising something you have cherished from the middle 90's and watched grow? What about the constant bombardment of posts from people who demand satisfacted on certain things changing which goes directly against the whole concept of what eve is meant to be. I have seen a spectacular rise in posts from people saying 'I pay to play this game, I will play it how I want to' This is not what EVE is about, from it's very concept EVE is about player interaction good or bad. Also any good posts that CCP would have replied to in the old days are lost in the sea of gibberish. I honestly would love to hear that one day all the Devs in a meeting one day go 'That's it EVE has went off track, time to pull the brakes and bring it all back on course' ================================================
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.07 16:29:00 - [19] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 07/09/2006 16:34:30 Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO As a playerbase should we really sit down and think... Man, maybe I should just not worry at all about where my $15 a month is goin. Dude, it's a game that WE PAY FOR. It's their job to provide us with information. Nope. Its their job to provide a game. Ive always seen stuff like the test server, devs sharing their feelings about things etc as something extra. Something to be grateful for and not demanded. It doesnt say anywhere that they have to respond to threads in the forums if they dont want to. I would like them too, and im thankful when they do reply. Also I think its good for the company if they communicate with us. But to go from that to saying that they are ignoring us, or lying to us, or dont care about us... thats extreme imo. All it does it alienating the devs so they respond less and less instead of more and more. Its very simple. Im not saying you should kiss their ass. But some of the whines here are just awful in their constant negativity. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2006.09.07 16:30:00 - [20] Originally by: Auldare I honestly would love to hear that one day all the Devs in a meeting one day go 'That's it EVE has went off track, time to pull the brakes and bring it all back on course'
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.07 16:31:00 - [21] No arguing over who read what or what monthly payment entitle us to. Stay on topic, I do not want to have to mail CCP to get this thred cleaned. You didn't need to write that in the good old days, either. - Base insurance payout: 40% of ship base price Platinum cost: 33% of ship base price Platinum payout: 100% of ship base price Ship base prices can be found in CCP's Item Database.
Bad Andy Mystical Awakening	Posted - 2006.09.07 16:34:00 - [22] The dev's had a dream that was frequently shared back then. If they are doing the same now it is heard less frequently. What is their dream now? EveTV? EON? Have they acheived so much of what they originally set out to do that they don't feel so excited? Has so much new-blood been brought in that's diluted the hardcore original three? Or are they so busy with their vision that they haven't told us what it is? Communication is key. It seems that new companies know this from the start (Roma Victor on one side) and others don't (Dark and Light on the other) but it's true that the community here seems a little less directed and little more run-away than it was a few years back.
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.09.07 16:34:00 - [23] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 07/09/2006 16:30:41 Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO As a playerbase should we really sit down and think... Man, maybe I should just not worry at all about where my $15 a month is goin. Dude, it's a game that WE PAY FOR. It's their job to provide us with information. Nope. Its their job to provide a game. Ive always seen stuff like the test server, devs sharing their feelings about things etc as something extra. Something to be grateful for and not demanded. It doesnt say anywhere that they have to respond to threads in the forums if they dont want to. Well I'm telling you that a good way to captivate your paying customers is to form and maintain a relationship with them. Otherwise they feel neglected and leave. The test server... hmmm I've had a second account re-activated from a while back running for almost 3 months now... Can I even get in the test server? I think not. Its the little things. ~~~~~~~~~ I wish my lawn was EMO so it would cut itself. I approve of this message.
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.09.07 16:37:00 - [24] Originally by: Ithildin No arguing over who read what or what monthly payment entitle us to. Stay on topic, I do not want to have to mail CCP to get this thred cleaned. You didn't need to write that in the good old days, either. Forums are for discussion, no one is arguing here. Our monthly payment entitles us to play a game. Other things can/should be expected from a company that wishes to keep its clients around. As far as Dev involvement? One word. Sloppy ~~~~~~~~~ I wish my lawn was EMO so it would cut itself. I approve of this message.
Auldare Soundless Storm	Posted - 2006.09.07 16:42:00 - [25] Edited by: Auldare on 07/09/2006 16:42:50 kk Ithildin, I'll try to keep on track It is an interesting point but I think there is no simple answer. A lot of people just joining may come from a different culture of online games where the game was created as a service and not really made the way EVE was made. CCP was created by a group of guys who had a vision that is eve, this is a game of dreams more so than a game of business. With the way the player base has reacted lately to when a CCP does post they have to tragically make asolutely sure what they do say is what will happen. There is no more posting thoughts CCP have to post 'official' comments that prob have to be vetoed in God knows how many meetings before it can go public to minimise hysteria amognst a certain porportion of the player base which tragically has been growing recently ================================================
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.07 16:42:00 - [26] Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO Well I'm telling you that a good way to captivate your paying customers is to form and maintain a relationship with them. Otherwise they feel neglected and leave. The test server... hmmm I've had a second account re-activated from a while back running for almost 3 months now... Can I even get in the test server? I think not. Its the little things. Yes, but our relationship with them is being poisoned by all the whines. Would you like to have a relationship with someone who dont even seem to like you? When CCP posts they are happy about the PCU 30k record, people whine about that being wrong too, because there are still bugs in the game and ccp shouldnt be happy until they all are fixed... I mean, come on.... About the test server, its just an extra thing. Its not included in the sub. They mirror it every now and again, and if your account was not active when its mirrored, you wont get in. Thats technical reasons - not ccp deciding to block you out because they dont like you... You say its the little things - well, im betting thats what ccp thinks when they read these forums and see all the whines. They all add up and makes them dont want to communicate unless they have to. I also remember kieron sounding happy 6 months ago.. usually using smileys in the posts and seemed to enjoy things. Now his posts are just official sounding with no personality. That happens when you complain all the time. People even complain about the language not being 100% accurate, or the MOTD having a spelling error... I mean, isnt it time to just give it all a rest? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.09.07 16:54:00 - [27] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO Well I'm telling you that a good way to captivate your paying customers is to form and maintain a relationship with them. Otherwise they feel neglected and leave. The test server... hmmm I've had a second account re-activated from a while back running for almost 3 months now... Can I even get in the test server? I think not. Its the little things. Yes, but our relationship with them is being poisoned by all the whines. Would you like to have a relationship with someone who dont even seem to like you? When CCP posts they are happy about the PCU 30k record, people whine about that being wrong too, because there are still bugs in the game and ccp shouldnt be happy until they all are fixed... I mean, come on.... About the test server, its just an extra thing. Its not included in the sub. They mirror it every now and again, and if your account was not active when its mirrored, you wont get in. Thats technical reasons - not ccp deciding to block you out because they dont like you... You say its the little things - well, im betting thats what ccp thinks when they read these forums and see all the whines. They all add up and makes them dont want to communicate unless they have to. I also remember kieron sounding happy 6 months ago.. usually using smileys in the posts and seemed to enjoy things. Now his posts are just official sounding with no personality. That happens when you complain all the time. People even complain about the language not being 100% accurate, or the MOTD having a spelling error... I mean, isnt it time to just give it all a rest? Ya, exactly. Give it a rest. Start thinking about yourself and not about CCP. They are a company not your girlfriend. If you're an ass to your girlfriend and she gets upset she can pout and sulk and wallow in her tears all she wants. However, CCP is a company and if they really are (as you suggest) getting tired of the playerbase "whining" I'm serious in saying that they don't deserve our monthly payment. On the other hand! I do NOT beleive this is the case. I really have a tough time thinking that a company lacks communication with their clients because they are mad at them. That would be highly unprofessional and extremely immature on their part. It is my beleif that they are hard at work making fixes/adjustments/expansions to the game and have little time to tell us what is going on. With that in mind, I expect to see new dev/community manager hirings after Kali. I'm sure the Public Relations, Human Resources, and Customer Service departments aren't comprised of total idiots. ~~~~~~~~~ I wish my lawn was EMO so it would cut itself. I approve of this message.
Harisdrop Gallente RONA Deepspace Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.09.07 16:56:00 - [28] Answer: Thier game we play. The devs are still here in the forums and have always been. Players from others games have now joined "my" EVE and see the truth and the strength of CCP. They love it and I love them for loving it. Nothing has changed. The only perceived change is now 50k are posting on the forums and you dont get what you want done.... WHINE.
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.09.07 17:00:00 - [29] Originally by: Harisdrop Answer: Their game we pay to play. Fixz0red ~~~~~~~~~ I wish my lawn was EMO so it would cut itself. I approve of this message.
Lardarz B'stard Amarr Out Of Exile	Posted - 2006.09.07 17:02:00 - [30] Edited by: Lardarz B''stard on 07/09/2006 17:03:45 I actually think they talk to us more than they used to. You can even notice it now on the forums as they have little gold bars on their posts. There are a lot more blogs, and they do interviews, eg on Eve TV etc. Spend any time on the chaos irc channel and they talk too. Previously, everything used to be communicated through Pann as I recall. Nowadays you get them all posting ballocks on the forums, which is a good thing in my opinion. There is also more communication about the issues they have with patches and the state of the server and such. Hammer and Valar seem more forthcoming with lots of techie stuff that I dont understand. I think they are doing a very good job of keeping the community involved etc. Eon magazine is a good example of a communication channel that didnt use to exist. If anything, there are many more players posting complete rubbish 55 times over. You can't expect them to respond to all of it. Join Out Of Exile Today

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