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Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.07 19:45:00 - [1] Edited by: Rells on 07/09/2006 19:48:26 Question: If someone wardecs my empire bound corp and we are smaller and less experienced than them, can we do anything? Yes and no. The right training of your players will put you in the position to be able to fight back against the war dec. However, empire wars tend to boil down to dock wars. The aggression timer is only a paltry 30 seconds so that bs can snipe your hauler and then dock before you can kill him. Killing a well tanked BS in under 30 seconds is EXTREMELY hard and takes a massive amount of force -- an amount of force you are unlikely to have if you are being griefer wardeced. Corps like Contraband have that kind of force but then people rarely try to "griefer war dec" Contraband. Your best bet is to make insta-undock bookmarks that allow you to get just about anything out of station, avoid deathtrap stations that hang you up on the structure when undocking and generally let the enemy die of boredom. Remember war is psychological. If you get the chance to catch one of them with a frig pack while they are out of dock range all the better. Getting your shiny T2 fitted BS blown up by a dozen frigs is a great psychological weapon. Question: How do I protect myself from pirates while mining? The best answer is to go with friends and have those friends be well trained. Pirates having a hard time with people in an area will generally seek easier prey elsewhere after a while. Question: How is it that pirates attack multiple ships while solo and come out on top? Are they just really good or something? Not really. Pirates cultivate an image of evil and fear and this is their major weapon. When a pirate warps into a belt of 10 ratting ships, he is generally counting on most of them running from his bright red flashing line in the overview. Flashing red is a primordial signal of danger and triggers flight reflexes in many people. The skull reinforces this for a bountied player. If those players in a belt had actually all ganged the pirate, he probably would have lost. Change your pirates to flash another color such as green and watch how that changes your fear response. Pirates compound this psychological weapon by being nasty and agressive in local, this leads to feelings of inferiority and rage and many people attack them in a "holy war" of rage. A pirate encountered by a competent gang commander who stays calm and ignores local will be a dead pirate. Question: I got into PvP last weekend and I was shaking so bad I could barely do anything. This never happens to me in Counterstrike or similar games so why does this happen here? In Eve you have something to lose in PvP and this is what makes PvP in Eve great. You experinced an extreme form of "the rush" that all pvpers have when in a very dangerous situation. Over time with experience that will diminish and you may even find yourself needing to PvP in more expensive ships to maintain a pleasing level of rush. For example, few AGONY vetrans get a rush off flying tech 1 frigs anymore. The rush can be tempered and controlled with training and experience. Training teaches you to react automatically so that you can function with the rush going on. It also teaches you how to channel that rush into reaction speed and good decision making. PvPing in Eve has been compared to actual combat in real life by many people who are in the military or ex military. Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.07 19:45:00 - [2] Edited by: Rells on 07/09/2006 19:53:10 Edited by: Rells on 07/09/2006 19:50:55 Myth: Frigates just blob the opponents to kill them so it requires no skill. Actually this couldnt be further from the truth. You take 10 frigates flown by untrained pilots and encounter 10 flown by trained pilots and you will see the trained pilots come out victorious. This doesnt mean they wont take losses, but they will win the fight. A blob is an unorganized, poorly led gang. A fleet is a well organized an led gang. Myth: If I jump into 0.0 I will die in minutes. If you dont know what you are doing, yes. If you have training you can happily live and rat in 0.0 without problems. Yes, even 2 week old chars can go ratting with friends in 0.0 effectively, you dont need a BS. Myth: This older player in his HAC called me and my friends cowards for not engaging him and therefore I must be doing something wrong. This is called "smacktalk". The player, for whatever reason, is trying to irritate you and goad you. if you let him goad you into doing something you wouldnt have normally (fighting with your balls rather than your brain). Then you are a fool. People on these very forums have challenged some rediculous things. One person even suggested we attack 20 battleships with 20 frigates; and called us cowards for declining. Part of PvP is knowing your limitations -- what you can and can not engage. Sun Tzu philosophy is premised on maintaining the initiative and fighting the engagement on your terms. In the 1800s this was known as having "The Weather Gage". Myth: PvP is all about blob warfare. In a PVP-BASIC class not long ago, the frigate equipped class engaged a battleship right under the noses of a fleet of much more power (HACs, Battleships, Cruisers, etc) and destroyed the battleship and then withdrew. They continued the hit and run attacks for over an hour, blowing up several more pieces of hardware. They did take losses but comparing isk, they lost 15 mil in total after insurance and inflicted 1.5 billion estimated isk of damage on the opponent. In another incident a small AGONY gang of 10 ships mixed frigates, destrozers and light cruisers encountered a gate camp of several BS, including snipers, cruisers, interceptors and warp bubbles. The engagment was surgical in its precision and the pilots tore apart the gate camp. Less than an hour later the gate campers had withdrawn with massive isk losses. Both incidents prove that superior training destroys blob warfare. The difference is in the tactics employed and the skill of the players controlling the characters. Myth: War is about isk and I dont have enough. False; War is about psychology, not isk. If you defeat your opponents psychologically, they will lose. Myth: Ok then if I get training I can kill the snipers on lowsec gates with my friends. Snipers are often risk adverse and are often aligned and traveling at full speed to a warpout safespot. In addition, they frequently have at least one warp core stab. Therefore, even if you can arrange to warp in right on top of him that 5 seconds between him seeing you and you being able to lock him is plenty of time for him to warp out. Killing people employing coward tactics in Eve is very hard in lowsec. In 0.0 it can be done with interdictors. The best bet with a lowsec sniper is to ignore him. Fly in something fast, scan ahead with ships that warp out fast and dont stress over them. Stress is actually their main goals. Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.07 19:45:00 - [3] Edited by: Rells on 07/09/2006 19:49:18 As I surf through the board while eating my lunch, I see a pattern that is all too familiar in the boards. There are some newerplayers here making all sorts of suggestions about Eve and getting flamed and beaten down by some people that have been here quite a while. The number of people trying to give out good advice to these newer players is not insignificant but they are often loss in a morass of flames, trolling comments and smacktalk. So I thought I would make a post to help out these newer players. Not so much a FAQ as a list of things that the newer player should know before they get turned off by Eve by other players. I fear this will be somewhat of a marathon post but I hope it will be worth the read. The intention of the post is to provide information to the new player. Yes, I do mention my corp and its services a few times but that isnt the core intention, but rather just a natural consequence of the subject matter. Please feel free to ask more questions on the thread as well. Finally to the vetrans, please keep the thread free of flames and smacktalk -- disagree all you want but lets talk like adults shall we. Myth: PvP in Eve requires millions of skill points and and tons of hardware. This is rubbish. Agony Unleashed has been training pilots to PvP (incidentally these pilots stay in their own corps so this isnt recruitment) for over 8 months and the vast majority of our students are players under 2 months old. We have had several trial accounts take the courses (sponsored by friends). These pilots do just fine and are able to take out battleships flown by three year old chars. The difference is that in Eve, unlike other MMOGs, time in game does not make you invincible or even close to invincible. Tactics and training are superior to skill points. We have had several multi-year players take our course for this reason; merely proving that they knew that skill points isnt all there is to know. Myth: The best way to start PvP is to get in a fast frigate, put on a Microwarp drive and a disruptor and go tackle for a bigger ship. This will probably teach you how to die and use your pod but that is about all. A tech 1 frigate with a MWD has the signal radius of a battlecruiser. For those new to Eve, that means that is it EXTREMELY easy to hit you with big guns. Without the MWD, its like a deck gun of a real life destroyer trying to target a Speed Boat. Anyone who tells you to go "tackle" to get into PvP is SERIOUSLY misinformed. On top of that, without exceptionally good skills you wont be able to hold MWD and disruptor on a target for long without running out of capacitor energy; so on top of being suicidal, it is ineffective. Myth: All you have to do to PvP is to press F1 - F8. Totally untrue. PvP in Eve is incredibly complex, to the point of making other games look just plain silly. Everything from how you set up your ship to how to fly it in combat is a science. Players that think PvP is just aobut hitting keys die very fast when confronted by experienced pvpers. Myth: Frigates are useless in PvP combat. This is silly in the extreme. Any competent fleet commander will realize the potential of a frigates and other light ships accompanying his heavies (Battleships and the like). They have the potential to do more than warp disrupt the opponent. In a pure frigate fleet as few as 8 to 10 well piloted frogates can destroy a competently flown battleship without taking a single loss. Myth: Frigates are worthless because one smartbombing battleship will just blow you up. Twelve have tried vs AGONY and 11 died. One didnt die because of a mistake made, not because of the viability of the setup. A smartbombing battleship is just an insurance collection claim when it encounters a well trained frigate wing. Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.07 19:47:00 - [4] Edited by: Rells on 07/09/2006 19:47:41 Question: Can I live and survive in 0.0? Isnt it worse than lowsec? Sure. A 2 week old player can live in 0.0 if they have training. Several newer agony members enjoy ratting in 0.0 for money. No you cant take that battleship rat alone but with training you can take it out with a group of friends. 5 or 6 people in tech 1 frigs with training can easily rat million isk spawn groups. As for piracy, assume anyone in 0.0 that doesnt have standings with your corp is hostile. If you see them choose to withdraw or to engage first but never let them sieze the initiative if you can help it. That being said, many tactics used by pirates in lowsec (like gate sniping for 2 hours 200km off in a BS) would be FATAL in 0.0. Hence you dont see "pirates" there much. Most pirates are risk adverse and sniping 0.0 pilots that know what they are doing and potentially have access to covert ops ships and interdictors is dangerous. Question: I just joined an alliance and they gave me a bunch of money and said "go for it" in 0.0. What should I do? Get training pronto. Take some of that cash and take a PVP-BASIC course and learn how to not die. We kill dozens of pilots that we almost feel sorry for. They are thrown into 0.0 without a clue or training and they end up getting squished like ants. Alliances that just throw you to the wolves arent worth your time. If they have no care for their junior members then be careful of them. Many times you will be told to go "tackle" (as described above) and treated like cannon fodder. They will act like you are worthless. Quit that alliance pronto. Question: How can I get training and find out more? AGONY unleashed specializes in training new pilots ot pvp and to survive in lowsec and 0.0 space. We have deep programs that will keep you comming back, learning more every time you show up. This is our main business area and we have over 8 months experience and over 600 allumni. You will be given reading materials as well as in flight instruction. If you are in an alliance convince your corp to send you to us to be trained. You dont have to remain a victim. Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.07 20:16:00 - [5] Originally by: Tao Han While there are some good tips in here, I cant shake the feeling that this is some kind of recruiting thread? Agony is invite only corp and we dont recruit here. I will edit the post to make it seem less like marketing. Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.07 20:23:00 - [6] Originally by: Nicocat 2) Send your graduates my way in Mara. I need more playmates ;) Too far away Im afraid. We do our courses in Syndicate. Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.07 21:51:00 - [7] Edited by: Rells on 07/09/2006 21:51:49 Originally by: Easy Target Nice post... :) Quote: Question: I got into PvP last weekend and I was shaking so bad I could barely do anything. This never happens to me in Counterstrike or similar games so why does this happen here? If u ever lose that, quit eve and take a break.. :) truth be told all people that do PVP get this "rush" during every battle where it isnt a cut and dried win... like was said it is just a case of controlling that rush. i still get it after 3 and a half years of eve, and 3 years of PVP gaming... We frequently have students that say they couldnt sleep at all after the class even after being up til late in the morning on a 12 hour wolfpack. Their adrenaline was going so much that they couldnt get to sleep for hours. Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.08 04:39:00 - [8] Edited by: Rells on 08/09/2006 04:40:54 Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Oh come on unless you blob with frigates you are sitting duck. A blob? Oh you mean a single tech 2 frigtate flown by an experienced pilot can take you out in your tech 2 fitted raven? YOu compare apples to gorillas and try to use it to justify your argument. And as a point of order, the coloquaial usage of "blob" is by a single jock with his nose in the air that just got taken out by a well organized and led gang. You got "blobbed" as you put it because you were STUPID or OUT MANEUVERED. That happens to be called "tactics". Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Please don't tell me a frigate pilot 2 months old has a chance vs my Raven, with tech 2 precision cruise and a faction webber not to mention the 5 tech2 scout drones i got on your arse..... LEts not even get into what happens when I use a smaller tech2 ship decked in tech2 mods. Most agony pilots would refer to you as a "tech 2 pinyata". Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 I mean you are right that there is some basic strategy and set ups, but as a 2 month old pilot you are EXTREMELY limited in your set up options to start with. Yes, people have been saying that since we started pvp university. They get really quiet in local when we send them home in their pod without their 200 million isk tech 2 fitted HAC. Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Can you contribute... yes a very little bit but still contribute, you do need to blob though. Again your usage of "blob." You sound to me like a large ship snob. One of those who think they should auto defeat all players who fly something smaller. Luckily CCP thinks such pilots are foolish as well. Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 You are just missing far to many skills at 2 months to perform well. The difference between tech2 and tech1 is quite huge. We have trial account students that do just fine. Trained players can do a great many things with little equipment but even a char with millions of SP will do horrible if the player controlling him isnt trained. Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Can a blob of 2 month old players in frigates cause some heart ache? Sure but your suggesting you don;t need to blob which is utter nonesense. 2 month old players in frigates are'nt even capable of breaking any decent teh 2 ships tank to be honest....unless they blob. Yes a single frigate cant break the tank of a tech 2 fitted raven. The player age and SP count is irrelevent to this rather amazingly obvious statment. Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 I think it is a great post, it is extremely sugar coated relying on the special circumstances where you can survive with 2 month of sp in a t1 frig. None the less good info, just stretched a bit to far though. Now apply what rells said to a 6 month player and your cooking with gas. We have proved people like you wrong hundreds of times and we will continue to do so. PvP Universtiy has had over 600 students and we are booked so solid that it is amazing. Elitists would like the newbie to be your tackler and water boy. We teach the newbies how to blow the elitists up. Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.08 05:56:00 - [9] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 08/09/2006 05:21:04 I agree with everything in this post... its sad to listen to the rookie corp channel and see people getting warned about trying to pvp before they are 6 months old. I hope posts like this help spread the knowledge that Eve is indeed a tactical game where setups matter alot more than skillpoints. Just get out there and lose 50 t1 frigates. That will teach you alot. 20 will do it with good leadership and leave you pretty much invulnerable to single ships. Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.08 06:07:00 - [10] Originally by: Colonel Ripper But losing 50 is so much more fun :D Good post, all new players should read it. I find more than 40 to be unmanageable with disconnects and so on. Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.08 17:23:00 - [11] Originally by: Vasiliyan Originally by: Schlepperchen A Rifter with a named MWD, small cap battery and cap relays can hold a 15km orbit with more then 2000m/s with a 20km running forever. It will outrun med drones and even med guns will have a problem to hit it below 30km range. I stopped reading your post at this point. Did you compute that with max skills or new player skills? Not likely. Just the MWD takes a bit of time to get itself. Tack on the other engineering you need to make this go and you have a 1 to 2 month char, not counting learning skills. I could accomplish this (though I dislike suicide) but your average new player couldnt. Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.08 19:24:00 - [12] Originally by: Gabriel Kain Originally by: Rells Edited by: Rells on 07/09/2006 20:21:23 Myth: All you have to do to PvP is to press F1 - F8. Totally untrue. PvP in Eve is incredibly complex, to the point of making other games look just plain silly. Everything from how you set up your ship to how to fly it in combat is a science. Players that think PvP is just aobut hitting keys die very fast when confronted by experienced pvpers. True. Sadly all this science about fittings and flying techniques is only related to how you press f1-f8 which is in fact all you have to do. Very very untrue. Stop flying with gank squads in "gank or flee" fleets and actually think tactically and strategically. You will find that in actuality you couldnt be more wrong if you tried. Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.09 03:08:00 - [13] Well I suppose every good thread has to get trolled eventually. sigh Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.10 07:26:00 - [14] Originally by: F'nog Originally by: Rells Well I suppose every good thread has to get trolled eventually. sigh Eventually? I think you missed Nanobotter's posts. No I replied to him. Anyway. I hope the post helps some people out and people ignore the sillyness. Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.11 19:36:00 - [15] Originally by: RuleoftheBone 1-While being new to EvE I have had the opportunity for a bit of PvP...in one case completely unplanned and resulting in the quick popping of my ship by a very skilled and overpowering pirate. In reading through your post and visiting your website it appears that your course is emphasizing flotilla-level/co-operative ganged tactics...is this correct? PvP in Eve is best done as a team sport. AGONY pvps in small groups quite often but we teach the students initially to work in a gang and the class gangs are sometimes rather large. The impact of pvp basic is designed to be psychological as well as tactical. We want the students to lose their fear of 0.0 and thus some engagements are a bit overkill. However there have been hectic, fleet clash and multiship engagements in class times and occasionally murphy will intervene and part of the class will get killed. We warn students attending that pvp is dangerous and there is a high chance of ending up in your clone bay. But if you do, we will collect you, get you back up to speed and out for revenge. Originally by: RuleoftheBone 2-Coming from a flight sim background (Janes series, Commanche-v-Hokum, FIV, etc etc) I fail to see how ACM is really implemented ingame. The way I have seen things this far maneuvers are really limited to "orbit at x", "approach", and click around space to change direction. It seems to me that individual combat is restricted to rock-paper-scissors modified by the skill attributes of the combatants.....is this a correct statement for me to make and how does your course work around these limitations? Nope. Eve combat is extremeley deep an detailed. It is tactical in nature rather than being focused on reflexes. However, some level of reflexes are involved. In basic we try to boil it down so students find they can handle the flow of tasks to be done. There are sometimes dozens of things to do in a very short timespan. Eve combat is the most deep combat I have seen in 15+ years of gameplay in pvp games. Originally by: RuleoftheBone 3-It also appears that your course has the emphasis on teaching group battle tactics and overcoming the "fear" that folks might feel at risking thier virtual butts....what do you offer players who are already comfortable working in a team environment and already have a "virtual" instinct for going head-to-head where appropriate? There is a lot of training you need to be effective in PvP. You can spend the next 2 years learning the hard and expensive way and you will get there. We can shortcut that process and get you there a lot quicker. AGONY corp pilots are relatively young as eve pilots go but they are quite good at pvp because of this shortcutting. Training, tactical combat with light ships and PvP in general are our specialties. Originally by: RuleoftheBone Again...thanks for a useful post and look forward to your response. Bone NP. =) Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.17 06:33:00 - [16] Originally by: James Lyrus I'd also add that 0.0/PvP is nothing at all to do with skillpoints, and only partially to do with training. The real key is attitude. Are you prepared to risk what you've got, and hope on balance you come out ahead. I would disagree. You training is 70% of pvp and it comes with the desire to pvp. The other 30% is not being risk adverse. Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.02 09:26:00 - [17] Originally by: DemonStar Supernova I only have one rule of PvP. Never ever hold back on your setup. You may be flying a more expensive ship, but those t2 guns and factional hardeners are the one thing that may give you an active edge in a battle. I dont know about you, but id rather side on the chance of a killmail than having some spare isk in my wallet when my oponent is scooping up my corpse. That being said, buy a group of ships strictly for PvP. Fit them well, and plan to lose them because you eventually will. I own 2 megas for this reason exactly, not to mention a small fleet of AF's and cruisers. You still stand to lose ISK, but you can never hit rock bottom. Plus, buying a ship that you've already doomed to destruction makes it that much easier to take into a fight in the first place, you already know what its meant for. This is bad advice for anyone new to pvp and great advice to give by people looking to prey on those newbies. Keep it cheap, get freinds and get training. Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.09 19:02:00 - [18] Originally by: Illistar DeathWing I would love to go to one of these, but right now I'm struggling to get enough money to buy skill books let alone blow 5 mil for a few hours course. You have to relise that to new people that is alot of money. On top of that you want them to take many pre-req courses to get into the one they want. Well you are probably going about making money the wrong way. 5 mil can be made in a couple of weeks even by a total newbie. Come talk to us for advice on this. As for the prerequisite courses, they are necessary. Believe me when I say we will have you busy for 5 to 9 hours and you will feel like you are "drinking from a firehose" as one of my instructors put it. Originally by: Christina Vallentine Edited by: Christina Vallentine on 09/10/2006 05:08:37 I just saw this post now, and you know what. It is one of the first posts I have seen that didn't make me feel like I should just train and not even bother to log in for the next few months because there is nothing I can do but suck around all of you vets. You guys with your un-question marked avatars might not understand this, but this game is very intimidating at first. I have had 3 friends come to play this game because I asked them to try it out. They all left after reading these forums and getting discouraged and intimidated. >_< so thank you for being cool Rells, I appreciate it. My pleasure. I hope it helps. Join our channel AU_PVP_UNIVERSITY if you have more questions. Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.09 19:03:00 - [19] Originally by: Soporo Edited by: Soporo on 09/10/2006 06:12:18 Nods /signed Also... Quote: this is really just a long care bear loving, newbie hugging, pirate bashing, frigate obsessed post. *****s up Tell us how you REALLLLY feel sometime. There are very few people (amoung those that like or dislike me) that would call me a carebear. The posts do get a laugh from my corporation members though. Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.09 22:23:00 - [20] Originally by: zeKzn wrong forum on which to ask, yes, but are students required to have a mic and/or talk on vent or just listen? Havign a Mic is good but you at LEAST need to be able to hear. Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.10 01:36:00 - [21] Of course this guy is not being serious and actually just trying to be sarcastic but dont let folk like them get you down. Lets answer him just for fun. Originally by: murder one So I have a question Rells- What sort of training is available from AU that will allow a "noob" player/character to compete directly with older more experienced players flying T2 fitted ships, HACs etc. Explain to me how SP and ISK are a non-factor for the majority of PVP engagements in Eve. Player knowledge is the key to this game. You could take a group of 5 frigates vs 5 other frigates and the people that will come out on top will be those with training in pvp that know how to fit, fly and use their ships properly. Its the difference between a 10 man frig gang that blows up the dominix and the 10 man frig gang that gets munched by the same dominix. What you have trained up means nothing if you dont know how to use it. I couldnt possibly count the number of idiotic setups I have seen in the game for a starters. Interceptors with warp core stabs, Amarr ships using projectile guns, and the old favorite suicide ship ... "a fast frig with a microwarp and warp disruptor" The problem with eve is that there are a lot of "older" players that would love to havethe new players be their cannon fodder waterboys and have no desire to learn. There are also a lot of o"older" players that have been around a year or two and just plain have no clue. How many smartbombers have come after an agony gang? Answer 15. How many have died? Answer 14 (one lived only because a mistake was made and he was stabbed to the wazu). All of these people were battleship pilots with lots of "experience" that didnt have the brains to realize that their tactic was futile. Originally by: murder one Enlighten me as to the proper training and combat techniques that will allow players to engage targets of superior size and firepower and still come out ahead given an equal number of opponents on each side. OK. www.agony-unleashed.com I think there is a free PVP-BASIC slot in about a month. Im a business man. I train people to fight people. Im not giving away the info for free. Originally by: murder one It doesn't seem to me that you're teaching sustainable long term tactics and techniques that can be employed outside of a 10 man ECM Frigate gang. Sustainable? What isnt sustainable about flying tech 1 frigs and destroyers? At any rate you make a classic mistake, well I doubt YOU do but you want your opponets to. You advocate that an engagement is only "real" if its 15 to 15 or 5 to 5 or something like that. That is rubbish. In a combat situation, you pick the engagements you can win and decline those you cant win. Combat isnt fair and I doubt many of my clients are interested in beign "fair" with the pirates or the opposing alliance. Originally by: murder one In my opinion you come off like a used car salesman. LOL ... Originally by: murder one For those that don't know any better and who can't tell the difference I'm sure your customers are amazed and astounded with the results you can achieve with an experienced fleet commander and what basically amounts to a swarm of oversized drones with which to attack a target. I train them. I dont toss them in a frig, say do what I say, and fly off. They get 5 hours of instruction and often more than 7 hours wolfpack time. They ask questions, get answers, learn why and what and where of combat. They leave the course much much more capable than they came. Any PVP-WOLFPACKS graduate can execute maneuvers with gangs that will tear pirates to ribbons and teach enemies that a frigate / destroyer gang is to be feared, not laughed at. Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?

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