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moving all lvl4 agents into lowsec

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Nahia Senne Fortunis Novum Black Flag Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.07 20:30:00 - [1] navy's maintain the safety of their respectable empires. lvl4 agents offer highly rewarding missions where you fight hordes of enemies... in the middle of highly secure empire space! for consistency's sake, we need to move at least lvl4 agents into lowsec. there, where there is little navy presence, fighting large enemy fleets will be more believable. also, this will improve the risk vs. reward ratio that lowsec was meant to offer.
Baldour Ngarr Artemis Rising	Posted - 2006.09.07 20:32:00 - [2] Originally by: Nahia Senne navy's maintain the safety of their respectable empires. lvl4 agents offer highly rewarding missions where you fight hordes of enemies... in the middle of highly secure empire space! for consistency's sake, we need to move at least lvl4 agents into lowsec. there, where there is little navy presence, fighting large enemy fleets will be more believable. also, this will improve the risk vs. reward ratio that lowsec was meant to offer. Doesn't the fact that lowsec agents pay 2-3 times as much as highsec ones already take care of the risk/reward ratio? Gameplay > consistency. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Awox	Posted - 2006.09.07 20:32:00 - [3] This seems reasonable. Missions are totally boring now.
Awox	Posted - 2006.09.07 20:37:00 - [4] Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Doesn't the fact that lowsec agents pay 2-3 times as much as highsec ones already take care of the risk/reward ratio? What risk is there for a NPC corp Raven pilot who runs missions all day in some 0.6?
Badboy Geezer Grasshoopers	Posted - 2006.09.07 20:46:00 - [5] yes, move them to low sec space.
feawyn	Posted - 2006.09.07 21:12:00 - [6] gues it¦s the time off month fore cheap scan probe offers and low frequency off normal belt ratters in low sec..........
Cmdr Sy EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.09.07 21:16:00 - [7] Originally by: Awox Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Doesn't the fact that lowsec agents pay 2-3 times as much as highsec ones already take care of the risk/reward ratio? What risk is there for a NPC corp Raven pilot who runs missions all day in some 0.6? Being owned by a spawn vastly more powerful than anything likely to be encountered in a 0.0 belt with the exception of an Officer and his entourage? Sometimes, aggro goes wrong. Whereas undocking from an alliance-owned station, hitting the belts and instadocking the moment alliance chat has a panic attack, carries zero risk. I have died in missions. Never in a 0.0 belt.
Big Al Free Manure Ask Me How	Posted - 2006.09.07 21:26:00 - [8] Originally by: Cmdr Sy Being owned by a spawn vastly more powerful than anything likely to be encountered in a 0.0 belt with the exception of an Officer and his entourage? Sometimes, aggro goes wrong. Whereas undocking from an alliance-owned station, hitting the belts and instadocking the moment alliance chat has a panic attack, carries zero risk. I have died in missions. Never in a 0.0 belt. [Gameplay] qft, level 4s are fine the way they are. You can easily gain 50-100% more isk running in quiet lowsec compared to .5-1, especially now that WC is pretty much low sec only. Good luck finding quiet lowsec on weekends or primetime. Make a LOT more low sec space and spread out a LOT more agents there then we can talk about removing agents from high sec. [Realism] If you want to go into the realism of it, high sec empire still harbors lame suicide gankers... why can't it harbor pockets of npcs nastier than anything in a 0.0 belt? Again you would have to add a boatload more agents in lowsec to be more realistic. Leaving it as is (no more nerfs, thx) or making a lot more high quality SPREAD OUT low sec agents would be fine by me.
Nahia Senne Fortunis Novum Black Flag Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.07 21:35:00 - [9] ishkur can easily handle all lvl3's and .0 spawns, including officer spawns. raven and most other bs's can easily handle lvl4's. but this is not about .0 npcing where there is no sentries to protect you. this is about lvl4's and fighting hordes of enemies in the middle of highsec space. this is about incentive for people to take chances. this is about killing the boredom of sitting in empire for 6 months until you finally get bored of lvl4's and leave.
Cmdr Sy EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.09.07 21:42:00 - [10] I would actually be all in favour of adding more L3 and L4 agents in low sec, and making sure there is a sprinkling of agents from the other factions (maybe 25%), not just the one which has sovereignty. Just compare Annancale or some other low sec agent hub with, say, the whole of Aridia. More players would be tempted to give low sec mission running a try if the current agent distribution wasn't herding them into yet another hub, this time with the potential to act as a kill zone.
Siri Blue Gallente Eve University	Posted - 2006.09.07 21:47:00 - [11] You are overgeneralising... Imagine you have to do a lvl 4(or soon 5) courier mission in low sec...I want to see your freighter doing that...
Nahia Senne Fortunis Novum Black Flag Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.07 21:53:00 - [12] Originally by: Cmdr Sy I would actually be all in favour of adding more L3 and L4 agents in low sec, and making sure there is a sprinkling of agents from the other factions (maybe 25%), not just the one which has sovereignty. Just compare Annancale or some other low sec agent hub with, say, the whole of Aridia. More players would be tempted to give low sec mission running a try if the current agent distribution wasn't herding them into yet another hub, this time with the potential to act as a kill zone. im sure CCP will keep agents well distributed. i wouldnt worry that much about kill zones either. just look at molden heath and areas sealed off by mission runners and miners. with 80 npcers in a single lowsec system, no gate camp will stand a chance. this is the sandbox content that will keep people entertained and playing the game. us vs them! not just me vs computer grinding myself to death.
Gaboloran	Posted - 2006.09.07 22:14:00 - [13] I think this is absolutely idiotic. Not everyone wants to PVP. Every time my corp tries to quietly go to a 5/10 we get jumped by people who think we too enjoy PVP. Now you want them to take our missions all to lowsec too so that people can sit at the gates waiting to destroy a months worth of my work for 60 seconds of their own fun. NOT EVERYONE WANTS TO PVP. If CCP does something idiotic like this to force me into PVP they will just force me back into WOW and can get their money from someone else. Forcing Eve to be a required PVP game will force members to leave. Bye Bye
Scarib	Posted - 2006.09.07 22:34:00 - [14] Will you be so keen to return the favour and let empire get some nice guristas/blood or serpentis agents in empire even if they are only low lvl 2/3 ? Sort of sucks to have to go to 0.0 and run lvl 1 missions for these factions, after all you got the best high lvl agents now , seems like some one is miffed they cant control all the fun. I would hazzard a guess the systems with the best high lvl agents in are your best hunting grounds, ask any PvP'er and they will have a different load out to a mission setup, so whats your guess at the outcome ? So short on easy kills this gets dragged up seems like a couple of times a week, please just shoot whoever you like why do you need mission runners, we would all be NBSI and you guys try your hardest to keep us out now ?
Hori To Minmatar Rifter Corp	Posted - 2006.09.07 23:20:00 - [15] It is not like you must work the best lvl 4 agent to have fun, I myself work a lvl 3 agent, in gelfiven. I make decent ISK and it's fun for a while. Tagging bigger numbers on the npcs don't really change the gameplay (hence the fun). I don't see the problem with the best agents beeing in low sec areas, to give the players who want their mission running to be as hard as possible. Not only do they have to deal with npc's, but also pirates with probes. The people that choose this, deserve a bigger reward (number), as their risk (and thus losses), are higher. And Nahia's original point makes very much sense lorewise.
GTSI	Posted - 2006.09.07 23:24:00 - [16] yeah move all lvl4 agents to low sec so the pvpers can have more targets. DOH!
Baldour Ngarr Artemis Rising	Posted - 2006.09.07 23:34:00 - [17] Originally by: Hori To I don't see the problem with the best agents beeing in low sec areas... ...which is how things stand. The OP wants to have ALL agents in low sec areas, which is patently unfair to the non-PvPing chunk of the playerbase. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Kerfira	Posted - 2006.09.08 00:45:00 - [18] Please note that the OP mistyped the title of her post. It shouldn't have been 'moving all lvl4 agents into lowsec', but instead 'Whine, whine. Why can't I shoot empire dwellers'. Want some cheese with that???? General advice: Stop whining!
Dupac Corsets and Carebears Whips and Chains	Posted - 2006.09.08 01:20:00 - [19] Although I am now a -10 pirate - yarr and all that I used to run lvl 4 missions in low sec and it's true we were bugged by the occasional pirate group - but the local mission runners formed a channel and we grouped together and fought them - winning I might add. I'm not sure where this idea that low sec = instant death comes from but it simply is not true, I've lived in low sec for a very long time as both mission runner and pirate - it's very easy to take some basic precautions and not die. However, the knowledge that you might makes it a much better game - I'd have quit long ago if I were still sitting in high sec space. No offence to some of those on the forums - but you don't actually die when your ship goes pop - it's virtual assets - go have some fun and stop worrying so much.
Calio Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.08 01:25:00 - [20] Another bad idea whose time is unlikely to ever come. You're bored. Well, you go out to low sec. I'll pass thank you. Gotta love people who are so self-oriented that they can't get it through their narrow minds that not everyone wants to play the way they do. "Those people who think they know everything are a real annoyance to those of us who do" (Issac Assimov)
Lunarmist	Posted - 2006.09.08 04:33:00 - [21] Frankly, your idea is not going to work unless ccp want to earn less money. Take look at the empire space and low sec/0.0 space. You should know that most of the people don't like to bother with pvp. Eve is not a pure pvp combat game. It was one but not anymore. This led to increased account total for ccp. Most of the people will not go into pvp unless death doesn't cost much other than pride. This is the why most of the people are staying in .5+ space. In certain extend, pvpers/pirates did their job too well. Move lvl 4 agents to low sec will not force many people into low sec. For most of the mission runners, they will go do lvl 3s, mining or just simply quit. What are you going to propose next? Move all the roids and mission agents into low sec.? lol Honestly, if you want to do missions in low sec, go ahead and do it. Nobody is there to drag you back. What is fun for you doesn't make it fun for others. This is not your game, it is shared by many. Let others to have their fun. Didn't your parents taught you about sharing when you were a child? Too many of those so called pvpers/pirates are having their over sized selfish hat on that totally blinded themseleves.
Gaius Sejanus Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2006.09.08 05:27:00 - [22] Oh look, another PK trying to force other people into playing the way she wants them to, and not how they want to. How trite. How boring. How cliche. How stupid.
Galk Gallente Autumn Tactics	Posted - 2006.09.08 05:31:00 - [23] It's funny when i see the old -9.9 say that it's 'only a game' you shouldn't realy have a problem if the op were to follow into fruition. What amuses me most is that the op's seem just as highly strung up in their opinion when screaming risk v's reward..... risk v's reward.... Very easy to take that in exactly the same context is it not... Just a game? Ofc for what it's worth, there is allready a balance.. low sec pays more... Double the lp's, better paying missions that don't spawn in high sec.... I also find it quite laughable the op atempting to place a rolepaying aspect to the call..... Where do you want me to start with that (you're not quite looking at the bigger picture) ______ Long ago one gorgeous night, we let the stars grow free. We let Zhuge do that once, he came back carrying a traffic cone, a forsale sign and three empty bottles of dutch lager. He also lost his Zimmer Frame... - Imaran
Hori To Minmatar Rifter Corp	Posted - 2006.09.08 06:48:00 - [24] Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Hori To I don't see the problem with the best agents beeing in low sec areas... ...which is how things stand. The OP wants to have ALL agents in low sec areas, which is patently unfair to the non-PvPing chunk of the playerbase. not all agents, just all the lvl 4s. Of course the reward would have to be adjusted, as someone pointed out, not everything are deadspace kill missions, there are courier missions too. But I doubt a majority of the posters here have actually read the whole OP, not to mention the answers given. See an idea you don't like? Flame it to death to kill any coherent discussion. Why do you have to fly a faction fitted navy raven to have fun? You push the same buttons, watch the same stats in a tech 1 fitted battlecruiser. The highest level of npc missions should be hard, and the hardest challenge in eve is not npcs, it's other players. Form gangs, use cloaks. Someone mentioned WoW, I've been raiding that game since release (started in deadmines :). You take 40 people, get on voicecom, drill some tactics, and farm the instance to death. The same run, over and over again. No player interaction at all after the tactics are drilled in, just repetition. I think the OPs idea is a good one. Of course, forcing pvp on someone not wanting to do it is not very nice. But it's still a choice to enter .4 or lower, even if all lvl 4s are there, no-one is twisting your arm. The ability to stay completely out of lowsec and reap 99% (random arbitrary number) the reward a low sec mission runner does is not fair distribution of risk vs reward.
Hectaire Glade Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.09.08 07:21:00 - [25] I wish people would just let this one go, EVE will loose an awful lot of its popualtion if you move the PVE players regular income source into areas which will quickly become infected with greifers. Low sec & 0.0, already provides much greater rewards than empire, but it does not neccesarily suit everyones gaming style and requires more co-operative play than some people are able to sign up for. Yes this is a PVP game, but it also has a significant proportion of players who want a choice in what they do, remove that choice, or make Empire missioning so unrewarding its not worth the time and those players will go find another game which does cater to thier style, if that happens, CCP revenue takes a big hit, and everyone suffers. Things are FINE they way they are.
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.09.08 07:21:00 - [26] Agree completely with the Op. Level 4 agents should me moved to low security space. Highsec should not have high rewarding agents and mission in allmost complete safety. How much can you make doing level 4's.. 12-15mill an hour ? Your average NPC'er running a decent chain in 0.0 will only be making around 20mill per hour. Does that seem right to you ? If players really do wish to stay in the sandbox they can still run high Q level 3 agents in empire. If they want to take the added benefits and isk of a level 4 is it not common sense that they should be exposed to a bit of risk. Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Hori To Minmatar Rifter Corp	Posted - 2006.09.08 07:36:00 - [27] I do high quality level 3 missions in empire safe space. Are my time wasted? I am having a good time doing it, and that's why I play the game.
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.09.08 07:50:00 - [28] Originally by: Hori To Why do you have to fly a faction fitted navy raven to have fun? You push the same buttons, watch the same stats in a tech 1 fitted battlecruiser. The highest level of npc missions should be hard, and the hardest challenge in eve is not npcs, it's other players. Why do YOU need other players to shoot at to have fun? Why the HECK does every PvPer assume his idea of fun is everyones idea of fun? What is boring to me is fun to you and what is boring to you is fun to me. Is that SO hard to understand? My prime source of fun in EVE is to collect and pimp up ships, and then to use an Uber ship to wtfpwn NPCs and feel better, WITHOUT hurting someone else in the act. Yes I also run lowsec missions and PvP, but that is done in much cheaper ships coz using the expensive stuff is really stupid if you actually care about your assets. Moving all lvl4s out of highsec and thus preventing me from using my pimped up faction battleships for good effect would destroy about 50% of my eve-experience. Would I quit? No. (My alt might though). Would I drive up T2 prices even more by investing my now freed up billions into reselling? Hell yes. Would I interact more with PvPers? Hell no, most likely even less. Would probably join an alliance and NPC in the belts all day long, earning more than now with just as much risk. Though I might get some ideas about suicide killing anyone with negative sec in highsec just because . As for the proposed 'fixes' to lowsec missions, using a gang for them cuts your profit in half or less, totally killing the reward portion of the risk vs. reward equation. Using a cloak whenever a hostile enters the system: same deal. Plus I don't think you can use a cloak when locked by NPCs, I actually have once been shot at by gate NPCs while cloaked so maybe they don't even work at all with NPCs around... The only workable way for missions in lowsec would be to make every mission location unscannable. Which I guess would once again defeat your precious risk/reward ratio. While I still think that a 1% chance to lose 1 billion is just as much risk as a 10% chance to lose 100 million. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Kery Nysell Caldari Nysell Incorporated	Posted - 2006.09.08 08:56:00 - [29] Ahrem. Navies are NPCs. 0.0 is a PLAYER CONTROLLED SPACE. The Navies have nothing to do in 0.0, their respective Empires are NOT sovereign there. They have nothing to defend or fight against. For consistency's sake, those agents in 0.0 should be moved to highsec, with only the "pirate" agents in 0.0 ... THAT would be in line with the NPC's political situation. The isk vs reward ratio is fine as it is, as others have pointed out, high sec agents give a third of the rewards of low sec agents. And don't get me started on the "I'm a PK and I want more targets" part, I personnaly find the PvP side of eVe so boring that it makes me want to quit the game and go read the dictionnary, I can accept that some people find it fun to shoot at a ship for 60 seconds before seeing a big explosion, but I can't accept it when those people are trying to force their style of play down my throat.
Scarib	Posted - 2006.09.08 09:10:00 - [30] The inconsistency of having enemies in high sec will/would mean losing ALL mission, the OP's point is not valid, It's only a power trip for those in low sec. They want to control the agents and systems, they look over the fence and see the party going on, but they arn't in control so want to destroy some one's fun. If it was genuine then ALL mission must move a serpentis ship would not be able to exist in empire, BUT this is a game IT'S fun thats way we play. If the risk v reward in low sec isn't right then buff the low sec, your high end ore's not good enough, make a thread asking for more, your belts rats not good enough, then I'm dammed if I know what you want because as many say hunting 0.0 spawns are safe and rewarding, as repeatly stated by low sec residents. Anyone who wants to can go low sec, they interact and enjoy they game, why try to make other's follow and play to your idea of fun is just wrong, I no longer mission run I trade and will produce, so I PvP by your standards. Missions dont pay well unless you have officer/deadspace tanks for most players they are group mission and risky, with a expensive tank AE can be done in less than 2hrs, for many that will not be the case. Any mission system will have pods coming back after a ship loss, lag spikes, rat damage which has changed, rooms that aggro when some one fires on the wrong target, the forums are full of "I'm stuck how do kill/finish X" It's all about power and who controls the fun after lvl 4 mission (in your world) are moved, then you will look at lvl 3 and complain everyone is running lvl 3 they must be moved to low sec, where will you stop ?

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