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Enough of this Insta BM, Warp to 0km, Gatecamp/Antigatecamp stuff.

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MaKaVeLi DaDoN Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.08 08:35:00 - [1] A lot have been said on these topics already. I donÆt know what the devs are thinking on this topic. I guess they should share their thoughts with us, so the community can do some suggestions. I would try to give my ideas here. Most of them are based on what IÆve read on the forums so I donÆt want any credits on this. But what I want to hear is some opinions from the dev team on this. Some people want warp to 0 and instas, other want them removed. This is because they have very different problems to solve. This is normal. But what affects all players is the LAG. So whatever solution is implemented the most important thing it should address is the performance. Ideas for shared corporate/alliance bookmarks seams very good to me. It could decrease the total amount of bookmarks a lot. It would also remove the burden of copying them. Also will remove the InstaBM scams from the ESCROW and other trade places. To me the biggest problem with BMs is their use for insta warp. This is the thing that make people create a lot of BMÆs and then copy them. This creates a huge amount of BMs. I havenÆt seen anyone to complain about bookmarks to ammo stashes, safe spots and so on. Other solution to decrease the number of bookmarks is to allow ôWarp to 0kmö in highsec. The insta BMÆs in highsec are used only for faster travel and mining ops. No one is using them to avoid gatecamps or something similar in highsec. People just want to travel faster. Waiting almost a minute at every gate and station in indy is very boring and ruins my (and I am sure many other peoples) gameplay. So allowing ôWarp to 0kmö should be OK in high sec. Or at least make it to 2-5kms, so the travel donÆt start to look to unrealistic. Sometimes interesting things happens near gates stations even in highsec. Lowsec is other story. The argument here is about using insta to avoid gatecamps. To me LOWSEC is what it says ôLow securityö not ôNo securityö. So I thing that gate should be more protected by sentries and CONCORD. This is empire sec. On one more thing. People entering lowsec system are going there to do some business, not on sightseeing. So they should be allowed to enter safely a lowsec system. It is unfair to me to gatecamp ganged and pop some indies in no time. And I donÆt thing that this is much fun also. The pirates should do their thing in other places like roid fields. Some way to put people out of warp should be introduced. Anyone played Freelancer? There was a missile there which was fast enough to outrun people in warp and pull them out of it. Put something similar. But make it not 100% successful. Maybe equipment and/or skill dependable. This should make the both sides happy. The pirate profession shall become more interesting then and the carebears wonÆt feel helpless. And there come the 0.0 space. I thing that all Instas should be removed from there. Traveling in 0.0 is not to be safe. You wanna go in 0.0 the use stealth or make sure you have brought enough firepower with you. This is not Disneyland! Just to mention that I am saying that from the view of 1 month player. If some donÆt have the means to go in 0.0, just donÆt do it. Just stop complain. If you wanna go there join corp or make your own with couple of buddies, get some nice ships and skills and go there. If you are capable you will survive, if not continue to develop yourself and then try again. Other way is to contact the alliance/corps already there and kindly ask them to allow you in. If you offer them something in return the will gladly allow you to pass. So why you want to enter 0.0 space? Want to mine roids? To trade? Or something else? Whatever it is, it is about business. So make this business with the people already there. If you want a peace of 0.0 for you then prepare yourself for fight. Stop complaining that you canÆt travel safely in 0.0. Fight your way down there. I canÆt see anythi
Zarch AlDain Friends of Everyone	Posted - 2006.09.08 09:24:00 - [2] I lived in 0.0 for 6 months, I'm taking a break now to try something different but I will be back. Instas are required for mobility, for getting places in reasonable time, etc, etc. Yes they help survivability but due to things like warp disruption bubbles and fast-locking intercepters they do not make you invulnerable. I spent months based out of a system that was 9 jumps from nearest system with a station...and that station only had limitted facilities...try doing that sometime without instas. Zarch AlDain
tookar Amarr Krookid	Posted - 2006.09.08 10:00:00 - [3] The whole point is that you wont be able to base out of a system nine jumps from a station . What makes you think you should be able too? Removing instas altogether will promote better regional trade , more mixed setuops on ships as people wont be able to get all the uber mods by instaing across the known galaxy and also deployment of more stations . Combined with removing local and a slight sniping nerf this might actually give us slow moving alliance borders and proper fights rather than ultra mobile gank fleets who can avoid any blob bigger than them.
Revenant Force Gallente ironwood ink	Posted - 2006.09.08 10:30:00 - [4] This is a really well thought out topic and a really good idea that really does adress the complaints of the pirates aswell as those who don't go to 0.0 but still travel through low sec and get ganked by pirate mobs because the gates are protected well enough to be a threat. I can't see anything wrong with this, and it would definatly make things more strategic rather than just who has the biggest guns and how fast you can get 10-20 ships to lock onto what comes through the jump gate.
MaKaVeLi DaDoN Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.08 10:38:00 - [5] Originally by: Zarch AlDain Instas are required for mobility, for getting places in reasonable time, etc, etc. Yes they help survivability but due to things like warp disruption bubbles and fast-locking intercepters they do not make you invulnerable. I spent months based out of a system that was 9 jumps from nearest system with a station...and that station only had limitted facilities...try doing that sometime without instas. There should be balance between fast movement in 0.0 and the ablility of others to interecept your movement. I really look forward the possiblity to see(detect/spy, call it how you want) people in warp and some options to pull them out of this warp and engage them. The fast travel is not an issue in highsec. No one have complained that his is not able to gatecamp someone in highsec. So cut the travel time in highsec by introducing "Warp to 0km" there. For 0.0 space travel time should be slow enough so people don't insta way every time when there is a danger. Using instas ruins peoples effort to defend what they claimed. If you want peace of 0.0 fight for it. If you want to travel safely use stealth.
MaKaVeLi DaDoN Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.08 11:01:00 - [6] An idea on spying. Why not make some stations provide BUG implantation services. Let's say you go to a station, bribe some corrupt employee to attach tracking deveice to ships you choose - like all indies, all ships belonging to some corp or alliance and some other fliters of your choice. Then when ship docs to this station a tracking device is attached to it. When ship with bug attached to it enters the system where you are, you can see its position using the scanner, i.e. receive exact coordinates of the ship, so you can warp to it. Of course there should be service to remove this bugs form the ship. Other possiblity is to add the of the warp scramble device to this bug. So you see the ship in the scanner, right click on it and shoose "Pull out of warp". Then ship's warp device is suspended for 20 or so seconds, you warp to it and the fun begins
Noveron Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.08 11:01:00 - [7] Edited by: Noveron on 08/09/2006 11:02:31 Edited by: Noveron on 08/09/2006 11:01:33 Makaveli, its obvious you dont live or have not lived in 0.0 much... Travelling in 0.0 without an inmediate gate reach will make 0.0 a nightmare.. Where do you think the instabookmark idea was though off and why? In 0.0 because travelling was tedious. It later evolved into certain pvp benefits. Warp to 0, or better Warp to 0.5 or 1 (to avoid bouncing) will still allow pvp the same thing, will get rid of all the database overhead because instas will be useless.. and will definetly solve this problem with bookmarks, not erasing bookmarks or the bookmarks system. I dont say CCP must implement it.. but I do think CCP should try it for a while in Sisi and let the players test and decide. Much better than ccp's solutions to date, imo.
Noveron Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.08 11:03:00 - [8] Originally by: MaKaVeLi DaDoN An idea on spying. Why not make some stations provide BUG implantation services. Let's say you go to a station, bribe some corrupt employee to attach tracking deveice to ships you choose - like all indies, all ships belonging to some corp or alliance and some other fliters of your choice. Then when ship docs to this station a tracking device is attached to it. When ship with bug attached to it enters the system where you are, you can see its position using the scanner, i.e. receive exact coordinates of the ship, so you can warp to it. Of course there should be service to remove this bugs form the ship. Other possiblity is to add the of the warp scramble device to this bug. So you see the ship in the scanner, right click on it and shoose "Pull out of warp". Then ship's warp device is suspended for 20 or so seconds, you warp to it and the fun begins Your idea like many others would take much time to implement.. Warp to 0.5 or 1 wold solve the problem with no efford from ccp to develop it.
tookar Amarr Krookid	Posted - 2006.09.08 11:08:00 - [9] Removing all bm then limiting players too 100-150 each for their pipes would solve it too and also make 0.0 space defendable instead of having to have 24/7 camps just to catch a few gankers . Inties atm can roam alliance space at will and wont get caught unless they are bored .
MaKaVeLi DaDoN Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.08 11:12:00 - [10] Originally by: Noveron Edited by: Noveron on 08/09/2006 11:01:33 Makaveli, its obvious you dont live or have not lived in 0.0 much... Travelling in 0.0 without an inmediate gate reach will make 0.0 a nightmare.. Where do you think the instabookmark idea was though off and why? In 0.0 because travelling was tedious. It later evolved into certain pvp benefits. Warp to 0, or better Warp to 1 (to avoid bouncing) will still allow pvp the same thing, will get rid of all the database overhead because instas will be useless.. and will definetly solve this problem with bookmarks, not erasing bookmarks or the bookmarks system. I dont say CCP must implement it.. but I do think CCP should try it for a while in Sisi and let the players test and decide. Much better than ccp's solutions to date, imo. You are right Noveron. I am 1 month old player, highsec traveler. But I have made some exploration in 0.0, just to see what is there. Sometime I get poded when entering 0.0, sometimes not. Most of the times I wanted to have those instas, but I don't. If I am to go in 0.0. I will do in without instas. I am sure about to things. The lag should be somehow cured. And warping to 15km from gate in a slow indy without protectio in 0.0 is nonsense. So maybe to solve the BM problem is to make warping to gate/station dependent ot the ship normal travel ship. If you are in shuttle, warp at 15, if you are in indy warp at 5km. The time needed to travel from the warpout point to the gate should be shortend for the slow ship (or at least for the weak transports). Warping at 5km could give a chance to survive, and plenty of time for campers to do their thing. Cluttering the game database with thousands copies of insta BMs is no good for anybody.
MaKaVeLi DaDoN Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.08 11:16:00 - [11] Originally by: Noveron Originally by: MaKaVeLi DaDoN An idea on spying. Why not make some stations provide BUG implantation services. Let's say you go to a station, bribe some corrupt employee to attach tracking deveice to ships you choose - like all indies, all ships belonging to some corp or alliance and some other fliters of your choice. Then when ship docs to this station a tracking device is attached to it. When ship with bug attached to it enters the system where you are, you can see its position using the scanner, i.e. receive exact coordinates of the ship, so you can warp to it. Of course there should be service to remove this bugs form the ship. Other possiblity is to add the of the warp scramble device to this bug. So you see the ship in the scanner, right click on it and shoose "Pull out of warp". Then ship's warp device is suspended for 20 or so seconds, you warp to it and the fun begins Your idea like many others would take much time to implement.. Warp to 0.5 or 1 wold solve the problem with no efford from ccp to develop it. I purpose this idea as a new gameplay feature. I agree for shortened warp to distance, but only if there is way for other people to interecept you. If this is not observer instas sound more like exploit.
MaKaVeLi DaDoN Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.08 21:13:00 - [12] bump
Revenant Force Gallente ironwood ink	Posted - 2006.09.09 03:39:00 - [13] Need more people to see this good idea.
MaKaVeLi DaDoN Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.10 20:57:00 - [14] bump
MaKaVeLi DaDoN Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.11 14:06:00 - [15] bump
Noveron Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.11 15:08:00 - [16] Quote: If I am to go in 0.0. I will do in without instas. Trust me.. you wont. Not for long
Dukath	Posted - 2006.09.11 16:21:00 - [17] Originally by: Noveron Quote: If I am to go in 0.0. I will do in without instas. Trust me.. you wont. Not for long Why not? I have been doing it for the last year and a half.
Usotsuki	Posted - 2006.09.11 16:23:00 - [18] Originally by: MaKaVeLi DaDoN bump Read #12
MaKaVeLi DaDoN Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.11 20:08:00 - [19] Originally by: Usotsuki Originally by: MaKaVeLi DaDoN bump Read #12 tnx for the info.
Zarch AlDain Friends of Everyone	Posted - 2006.09.11 23:22:00 - [20] Originally by: tookar The whole point is that you wont be able to base out of a system nine jumps from a station . What makes you think you should be able too? Removing instas altogether will promote better regional trade , more mixed setuops on ships as people wont be able to get all the uber mods by instaing across the known galaxy and also deployment of more stations . Combined with removing local and a slight sniping nerf this might actually give us slow moving alliance borders and proper fights rather than ultra mobile gank fleets who can avoid any blob bigger than them. So now most of 0.0 is unusable? You do realise that some regions in 0.0 only have 4 or 5 stations _total_ right? Zarch AlDain

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