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Druadan
Gallente
Aristotle Enterprises
   |
Posted - 2006.09.08 20:23:00 -
[1]
Okay, so, I just got my thorax blown up and podded in Egghelende coming back from a mission my agent sent me on. I was podded at the gate into Jel by an elite bc and a bs, and, although I'm more than annoyed at the loss of my equipment and my implants, I can't help but wonder one thing: why on earth aren't sentry guns capable of dealing with that? These guys weren't 200km away, they were 6km from the gate, and the sentry guns came online with the usual message "blah blah, you have foolishly engaged in criminal activities within sight of a sentry gun, etc. etc.", but they didn't do nearly enough damage quick enough. They're guaranteed to stop a newish player, on his own, from attacking someone, but do nothing to a pair of players in a bs and a bc.
Just... doesn't seem to make much sense to me. They're just acting to divide the new from the old.
__________________________________________________
"A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire |
Tobias Sjodin
Caldari
Ore Mongers
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.09.08 20:25:00 -
[2]
A 2 month old player in a BC or BS can tank sentries for long enough to pop most cruisers.
It's low-sec, buddy. If you want insta-pwn from the sentries and guards, stay in hi-sec.
[ore mongers, recruiting] |
lofty29
Gallente
Tolarri Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.09.08 20:29:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
A 2 month old player in a BC or BS can tank sentries for long enough to pop most cruisers.
It's low-sec, buddy. If you want insta-pwn from the sentries and guards, stay in hi-sec.
Tis not instapwn, tis about 5-second pwn
---------------------------
Originally by: inSpirAcy
Just like a tumour, the Brutix grows on you. 
I pwnz0r your sig, muahaha - Tirg
Noes i got beat by a girl >.< - Xorus |
Calynus
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.09.08 20:30:00 -
[4]
You're right. Sentry guns are a joke and don't act as much of a deterent.
However, expect flames from the gate-camping types.
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Druadan
Gallente
Aristotle Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.09.08 20:37:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
A 2 month old player in a BC or BS can tank sentries for long enough to pop most cruisers.
It's low-sec, buddy. If you want insta-pwn from the sentries and guards, stay in hi-sec.
Then it strikes me that the purpose of the sentry guns in 0.1 to 0.4 is gone. 0.1 to 0.4 are only 0.1 to 0.4 for anyone not in a ship capable of tanking the sentry guns. If you can tank the sentry guns, then it's just 0.0 for you.
The sentry guns are placed there by the empires, and security status is a DED/CONCORD thing. 0.1-0.4 are unpoliced, but the sentry guns are still there to 'keep order' around the gates. If they can't do that, then lets not fool anyone - remove the sentry guns, give them warp scramblers, or increase their damage-dealing capabilities.
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"A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire |
Tobias Sjodin
Caldari
Ore Mongers
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.09.08 20:38:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Calynus
You're right. Sentry guns are a joke and don't act as much of a deterent.
As they shouldn't.
[ore mongers, recruiting] |
Blind Man
Caldari
Angel Deep Corporation
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Posted - 2006.09.08 20:50:00 -
[7]
they didnt even have sentry guns before, people like you should be glad they are even there 
SignatureTemporarily Out Of Order |
Swamp Ziro
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.09.08 20:51:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
Originally by: Calynus
You're right. Sentry guns are a joke and don't act as much of a deterent.
As they shouldn't.
No.
You are wrong.
They should.
(funny how that works eh?)
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vile56
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Posted - 2006.09.08 20:52:00 -
[9]
u said elite bc, which means he probaly has very high resists, 80-90ish depending on how much isk he has. they(sentrys) do avg of 200 dmg pershot.
so lets be nice and say 50 dmg per shot to his armor. its a elite bc with if a abo****ion has 10-13k armor iirc so even if they did 1000 damage it would still be tankable. then, then next thing u would want is that concord flys all over 0.0-1.0 then there would be no pirates, then wow.
so skip all of this and play wow.
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DukDodgerz
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Posted - 2006.09.08 20:53:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
Originally by: Calynus
You're right. Sentry guns are a joke and don't act as much of a deterent.
As they shouldn't.
'low sec' is not 'no sec', if the gankers had a pair, and the skills they THINK they have, then they would be in 0.0 lawless space, not exploiting the secuity flaws CCP calls low sec.
☺
FRODO HAS FAILED;
BUSH HAS THE RING!!!
The HippoKing spots a new post |
Druadan
Gallente
Aristotle Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.09.08 21:02:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Druadan on 08/09/2006 21:02:41
Originally by: Blind Man
they didnt even have sentry guns before, people like you should be glad they are even there
People like me? And that was one of my points, btw: either make them do something, or take them away.
Originally by: vile56
u said elite bc, which means he probaly has very high resists, 80-90ish depending on how much isk he has. they(sentrys) do avg of 200 dmg pershot.
so lets be nice and say 50 dmg per shot to his armor. its a elite bc with if a abo****ion has 10-13k armor iirc so even if they did 1000 damage it would still be tankable. then, then next thing u would want is that concord flys all over 0.0-1.0 then there would be no pirates, then wow.
so skip all of this and play wow.
Whilst your numbers explain how he was able to do it, they don't justify the sentry guns not being able to overcome that threat. Also, there's no need to get ridiculous. Don't marginalise my opinion by putting words in my mouth and making out like I'm some freakin' n00b carebear who wants to be safe wherever he goes. I'm not trying to make lowsec safe space, I'm trying to understand why sentry guns are so useless. I've been podded in lowsec before, but it was whilst I was ratting. I knew exactly what I did wrong to get myself podded, and I took steps to make sure I didn't make such mistakes again. This time, I thought gates were fairly safe unless you get kited from a long way off, and I was alright with that and took the risk.
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"A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire |
vile56
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Posted - 2006.09.08 21:06:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Druadan
Edited by: Druadan on 08/09/2006 21:02:41
Originally by: Blind Man
they didnt even have sentry guns before, people like you should be glad they are even there
People like me? And that was one of my points, btw: either make them do something, or take them away.
Originally by: vile56
u said elite bc, which means he probaly has very high resists, 80-90ish depending on how much isk he has. they(sentrys) do avg of 200 dmg pershot.
so lets be nice and say 50 dmg per shot to his armor. its a elite bc with if a abo****ion has 10-13k armor iirc so even if they did 1000 damage it would still be tankable. then, then next thing u would want is that concord flys all over 0.0-1.0 then there would be no pirates, then wow.
so skip all of this and play wow.
Whilst your numbers explain how he was able to do it, they don't justify the sentry guns not being able to overcome that threat. Also, there's no need to get ridiculous. Don't marginalise my opinion by putting words in my mouth and making out like I'm some freakin' n00b carebear who wants to be safe wherever he goes. I'm not trying to make lowsec safe space, I'm trying to understand why sentry guns are so useless. I've been podded in lowsec before, but it was whilst I was ratting. I knew exactly what I did wrong to get myself podded, and I took steps to make sure I didn't make such mistakes again. This time, I thought gates were fairly safe unless you get kited from a long way off, and I was alright with that and took the risk.
people just adapted thats all.
when they were first inforced im sure it took awhile for gate campin to come back in style.
and ive been on eve-o forums for a while im cynical just figured u were another omg nerf pie alt char thats all
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Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.09.08 21:06:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Druadan
This time, I thought gates were fairly safe unless you get kited from a long way off, and I was alright with that and took the risk.
No such luck. CCP's original intention was to push PvP away from the gates in low-sec space, but the gankers would rather just sit there no matter what. I think they've given up even trying now.
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"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
vile56
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Posted - 2006.09.08 21:07:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Druadan
Edited by: Druadan on 08/09/2006 21:02:41
Originally by: Blind Man
they didnt even have sentry guns before, people like you should be glad they are even there
People like me? And that was one of my points, btw: either make them do something, or take them away.
Originally by: vile56
u said elite bc, which means he probaly has very high resists, 80-90ish depending on how much isk he has. they(sentrys) do avg of 200 dmg pershot.
so lets be nice and say 50 dmg per shot to his armor. its a elite bc with if a abo****ion has 10-13k armor iirc so even if they did 1000 damage it would still be tankable. then, then next thing u would want is that concord flys all over 0.0-1.0 then there would be no pirates, then wow.
so skip all of this and play wow.
Whilst your numbers explain how he was able to do it, they don't justify the sentry guns not being able to overcome that threat. Also, there's no need to get ridiculous. Don't marginalise my opinion by putting words in my mouth and making out like I'm some freakin' n00b carebear who wants to be safe wherever he goes. I'm not trying to make lowsec safe space, I'm trying to understand why sentry guns are so useless. I've been podded in lowsec before, but it was whilst I was ratting. I knew exactly what I did wrong to get myself podded, and I took steps to make sure I didn't make such mistakes again. This time, I thought gates were fairly safe unless you get kited from a long way off, and I was alright with that and took the risk.
people just adapted thats all.
when they were first inforced im sure it took awhile for gate campin to come back in style.
and ive been on eve-o forums for a while im cynical just figured u were another omg nerf pie alt char thats all
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Death Kill
Caldari
direkte
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Posted - 2006.09.08 21:08:00 -
[15]
Sentry guns wont save you because in the end they are just normal guns based on the same technology as other guns in eve.
They are not death stars, they are just plain normal guns and their damage can be tanked by using armour/shield hardners. If the guns were bigger, they would do more damage, just like a Caldari Sentry gun II will hurt alot more than a normal caldari sentry gun I.
Recruitment |
Druadan
Gallente
Aristotle Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.09.08 21:10:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Death Kill
Sentry guns wont save you because in the end they are just normal guns based on the same technology as other guns in eve.
They are not death stars, they are just plain normal guns and their damage can be tanked by using armour/shield hardners. If the guns were bigger, they would do more damage, just like a Caldari Sentry gun II will hurt alot more than a normal caldari sentry gun I.
Yeah, I know. They don't have to be, though.
__________________________________________________
"A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire |
Death Kill
Caldari
direkte
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Posted - 2006.09.08 21:14:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Druadan
Yeah, I know. They don't have to be, though.
Correct. However making them tougher would be a big nerf of piracy, and since people safespot/dock/log as soon as they see someone with a minus sec status enter local it would certainly cause the few remainig non sniper pirates to start sniping.
You were unlucky and I bet it sucked, dont worry you will get even someday. Just let the incident serve as a motivator, after all the game is what you make of it. 
Recruitment |
Zanarkand
Gallente
Enterprise Estonia
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.09.08 21:17:00 -
[18]
Originally by: DukDodgerz
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
Originally by: Calynus
You're right. Sentry guns are a joke and don't act as much of a deterent.
As they shouldn't.
'low sec' is not 'no sec', if the gankers had a pair, and the skills they THINK they have, then they would be in 0.0 lawless space, not exploiting the secuity flaws CCP calls low sec.
Low sec isn't highsec either? In lowsec you can't use ceptors, no bubbles, no interdictors, sentries shoot drones. Sentries do damage, it is far from irrelevant...
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Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.09.08 21:17:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Death Kill
[...since people safespot/dock/log as soon as they see someone with a minus sec status enter local it would certainly cause the few remainig non sniper pirates to start sniping.
So put CONCORD in the grids with gates in, and let piracy move out to the rest of the system. Y'know, like CCP wanted. It only means the pirates have to keep their sec status up in between ganks ... we don't run screaming for the station when a +0.1 sec guy appears, do we?
________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Zhaine
B e l l u m
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Posted - 2006.09.08 21:19:00 -
[20]
"Waaaaa waaaaa, game doesn't play exactly like I wanted/expected it to do, waaaaa waaaaaa I'm gonna clog up the forums with my needless whines instead of adapting or moving on, waaaaa waaaaa."
Move along people, nothing to see here.
Sentries provide an disadvantage to those who agress at gates in space of sec status x, where:
0.0>x<0.5
That's all. They guarantee nothing, just as being above 0.5 doesn't gaurantee the safety of your ship.
As soon as you undock anywhere in Eve you are not safe. So don't expect or assume or demand, learn and adapt and evolve. That's how to play this game and from reading your post, you've not got that. If you don't like it go play WoW, or at the very least stay in high sec and save us reading this kind of post.
- - - - - - - - - -
Quote:
I don't even want a ship, ships are for carebears. Give me a fish bowl for my head (to keep space out) and smear me with lard, then armed with a toasting fork-
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Death Kill
Caldari
direkte
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Posted - 2006.09.08 21:19:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
So put CONCORD in the grids with gates in, and let piracy move out to the rest of the system. Y'know, like CCP wanted. It only means the pirates have to keep their sec status up in between ganks ... we don't run screaming for the station when a +0.1 sec guy appears, do we?
That sounds horribly boring.
Recruitment |
Blind Man
Caldari
Angel Deep Corporation
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Posted - 2006.09.08 21:20:00 -
[22]
Originally by: DukDodgerz
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
Originally by: Calynus
You're right. Sentry guns are a joke and don't act as much of a deterent.
As they shouldn't.
'low sec' is not 'no sec', if the gankers had a pair, and the skills they THINK they have, then they would be in 0.0 lawless space, not exploiting the secuity flaws CCP calls low sec.
You need to end yourself 
SignatureTemporarily Out Of Order |
Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.09.08 21:24:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Death Kill
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
So put CONCORD in the grids with gates in, and let piracy move out to the rest of the system. Y'know, like CCP wanted. It only means the pirates have to keep their sec status up in between ganks ... we don't run screaming for the station when a +0.1 sec guy appears, do we?
That sounds horribly boring.
Then go to 0.0, where you can gank everybody everywhere.
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"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Death Kill
Caldari
direkte
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Posted - 2006.09.08 21:33:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Then go to 0.0, where you can gank everybody everywhere.
Based on?
My ganking days are long gone, I suggest you stop being so judgemental. I'm simply stating that the 0.4-0.1 security system is working just fine.
Recruitment |
Druadan
Gallente
Aristotle Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.09.08 21:35:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Death Kill
Originally by: Druadan
Yeah, I know. They don't have to be, though.
Correct. However making them tougher would be a big nerf of piracy, and since people safespot/dock/log as soon as they see someone with a minus sec status enter local it would certainly cause the few remainig non sniper pirates to start sniping.
You were unlucky and I bet it sucked, dont worry you will get even someday. Just let the incident serve as a motivator, after all the game is what you make of it.
That's a really good point, actually. Thanks for the insight, this is exactly what I'm looking for - a conversation. What I would have to wonder though, is, we have pirates who can snipe from 200km away and manage to hit a pod, but not sentry guns that can do the same to those snipers. Why is this?
Originally by: Zhaine
"Waaaaa waaaaa, game doesn't play exactly like I wanted/expected it to do, waaaaa waaaaaa I'm gonna clog up the forums with my needless whines instead of adapting or moving on, waaaaa waaaaa."
Move along people, nothing to see here.
Sentries provide an disadvantage to those who agress at gates in space of sec status x, where:
0.0>x<0.5
That's all. They guarantee nothing, just as being above 0.5 doesn't gaurantee the safety of your ship.
As soon as you undock anywhere in Eve you are not safe. So don't expect or assume or demand, learn and adapt and evolve. That's how to play this game and from reading your post, you've not got that. If you don't like it go play WoW, or at the very least stay in high sec and save us reading this kind of post.
I'm not interested in an argument. Offer insight, or don't bother. Perhaps your time would be better spent thinking up an alternative to that tired WoW joke, or reading threads instead of just the first post. "lol, go play WoW n00b" adds nothing except another brick in the wall obstructing open discussion.
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"A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire |
tookar
Amarr
Krookid
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Posted - 2006.09.08 21:40:00 -
[26]
The sentry guns arnt there to stop you getting killed in lowsec . They are there to add an element of risk to the pirates . If you had a friend with you and could do some semi decent damage between you then it would have been an even fight given even skills . 1 bs 1 t2 bc against 2 cruisers and 2 sentry guns . Think of the sentry guns as a bs with medium skills and fitted for gank and unkillable on your side :) obviously it wont tackle for you but hey you cant have everything :) .
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Nebuli
Caldari
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2006.09.08 21:42:00 -
[27]
Well I dont realy care that much, and in no way has this ever bothered me, but it does raise a point that may have been overlooked a little.
When sentrys were first introduced there wasnt tech II tanks, no tech II high resist ships, so gate camping within sentry range wasnt anywhere as easy as it is now, I dont think it would be unacceptable for them to have them scaled up a little.
After all all this new technology in EVE with tech II modules and ships should filter into all aspects realy.
Not that this effects me in anyway shape or form, dont camp gates and dont have a problem with gate campers in 0.4s (they usualy have a problem with us though heh) so it doesnt effect my personal gameplay at all, but I see no reason why they couldnt be buffed a little to make them as powerfull as they used to be.
CEO - Art of War
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tookar
Amarr
Krookid
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Posted - 2006.09.08 21:52:00 -
[28]
You do have a good point there about them needing to be scaled up . Also the range might need increasing a bit , if you are going to make so much money from something that risk free you should at least have to be fitted with ALL t2 tracking / damage and ammo so that you risk a lot too .
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.09.08 21:54:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 08/09/2006 21:53:54
Originally by: Calynus
You're right. Sentry guns are a joke and don't act as much of a deterent.
However, expect flames from the gate-camping types.
Have you ever personally tried to tank sentries?
I suggest you do before whining about it.
--[23] Member--
Originally by: DB Preacher
The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
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Pestillence
Revelations Inc.
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Posted - 2006.09.08 22:03:00 -
[30]
They do however protect you from pretty much everything smaller than a cruiser.
Imagine what a risk it would be without them then?
Lowsec is risky - face it.
What the sentries do is even the odds (a little) I've been attacked by 2 bs under the sentries and come out on top because of the help they gave.
Give them instagibbing damage and people would snipe from out of sentry range (yawn). Extend the range of sentries beyond snipers abilities and people could pretty much gate to gate with total impunity in any expensive hauler while afk. Not an ideal situation either.
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Maria Ravenwind
Gallente
Lepers Unbound
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Posted - 2006.09.08 22:09:00 -
[31]
It's lowsec. That's it. That means low protection. Everyone knows that the Sentry guns don't do squat in lowsec. If they did, then it wouldn't be lowsec.
The only thing that stops an insane amount of pirating in lowsec is the damage it does to your sec rating. There arent that many people that are okay with a -10.0. Most want to stay at -2.0 or less. If that was removed, lowsec would be unliveable for most.
I hate my Exclamation mark!
I Am No Alt. |
xlop
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.09.08 22:15:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 08/09/2006 21:53:54
Originally by: Calynus
You're right. Sentry guns are a joke and don't act as much of a deterent.
However, expect flames from the gate-camping types.
Have you ever personally tried to tank sentries?
I suggest you do before whining about it.
yep, your normal non capital ship can not tank sentrys indefinitly, its just that if u pop drones and there are 2 or more of youm the sentrys cycle from the drones and the players, making it possible to tank for a good 2mins or so
but unless u faction fit a HAC or command ship, i dont see them tanking for any meaningfull time, it might be possible with a FULL tank t2 kitted CS or HAC but then u do crap dmg
sentry guns imo are there to give u a hand nothing more, if someone attacks you, they have the sentry guns + you to deal with!
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Emperor D'Hoffryn
No Quarter.
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.09.08 22:19:00 -
[33]
sentry guns are not there to win the battle for you
sentry guns are not there to seperate the new from the old
they are there to level the playing field. with the sentry guns helping you, you can take out a much older player who is even in a bigger ship, if you setup right.
So next time set a trap for the pirates, and ultra tanks a ship and scramble them to keep them there, and see how much damage those sentries can really do.
Originally by: Tuxford
Yes we don't play on our main accounts simply because you would lose all respect for us 
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Kenz Rider
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Posted - 2006.09.08 22:26:00 -
[34]
Problem here is that the faction's interests are subordinate to other interests, which is unrealistic. A given faction would have all the motivation in the world to place a ISK 2 million sentry gun on a gate in order to make travel safer, but in the game the factions have no interests, so this is what we get.
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Little known fact: 95% of DS's signatures have nothing to do with EVE. |
Death Kill
Caldari
direkte
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Posted - 2006.09.08 22:34:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Druadan
That's a really good point, actually. Thanks for the insight, this is exactly what I'm looking for - a conversation.
Anytime :)
Quote:
What I would have to wonder though, is, we have pirates who can snipe from 200km away and manage to hit a pod, but not sentry guns that can do the same to those snipers. Why is this? It seems to me that the purpose of sentry guns at gates is to force piracy in these systems to move away from shipping lanes and into the rest of the system, which seems perfectly fine, to me. This is, after all, lowsec, and is still sovereign space, with trade to protect.
Sentry guns havent change much over the years, ships and modules have. Personally I wouldnt mind seing sentryguns get enough range to stop snipers, but I feel that increasing their damage output would be a step in the wrong direction.
Recruitment |
Lala Ru
Gallente
Quasar Industries
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Posted - 2006.09.09 01:11:00 -
[36]
So, how many DPS DOES a Gate gun do?
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VCBee 756
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Posted - 2006.09.09 02:10:00 -
[37]
Edited by: VCBee 756 on 09/09/2006 02:11:04
Personally I'd recommend something like three or four sentries on lowsec (0.2 to 0.4) gates, and then, say, after five-ten seconds of the sentries shooting at the hostile guy, a few Concord battleships or battlecruisers show up and scram/web him. So it's SAFER, since unless you're in a newbie ship or frigate, you'll be able to tank the battleship for the time Concord officers take to show up and lock him down.
So it'd still be technically as safe as high-sec, but the hostile could pop you/warp away before the CONCORD officers show up, therefore making it 'low security' space instead of 'kinda-sorta-not-really-low security' space, which essentially is just 0.0 space with stupid sentry guns that do no damage and don't act as any sort of deterant.
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Calynus
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.09.09 03:06:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Calynus on 09/09/2006 03:06:53
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 08/09/2006 21:53:54
Originally by: Calynus
You're right. Sentry guns are a joke and don't act as much of a deterent.
However, expect flames from the gate-camping types.
Have you ever personally tried to tank sentries?
I suggest you do before whining about it.
I wasn't whining. You are whining about my statement.
Maybe you should stick to trolling the Market forum and flaming people that call scammers scammers. You actually have a talent for that.
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Erotic Irony
Occassus Republica
Process of Elimination
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Posted - 2006.09.09 03:42:00 -
[39]
Rest assured that the real constraint on repeat low sec gankers may just be the heavy sec hits for each individual act of aggression and especially podding. Those pirates have a fair amount of high end complex grinding to do before they can enter 0.5 again. 
In any event, buy yourself some regional bookmarks and next time you'll be fine. Alternatively align for object and aggress something within sentry range to get a taste for it, like all NPCs tanking is possible, especially with cap charges, tech two gear and even mediocre skills.
Avon: For the love of all the is holy, do as the man says CCP. |
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