| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
Low-Class
4095
   |
Posted - 2014.12.15 03:08:52 -
[1] - Quote
To be completely honest, my experiences over the last few years have suggested to me that the Minmatar have, if anything, shown admirable restraint and tolerance towards the Empire.
An in-character blog and a video:
http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
Low-Class
4097
|
Posted - 2014.12.15 10:36:30 -
[2] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Where were all the people preaching the 'admirable restraint' of the Caldari in only targeting Home when we invaded Gallente space?
I don't think the words "admirable restraint" really belong anywhere near an operation masterminded by Tibus Heth.
The invasion was as disciplined and efficient as dictated by the high standards and traditions of the Caldari Navy. IT was an economical invasion, rather than a restrained one.
An in-character blog and a video:
http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
Low-Class
4098
|
Posted - 2014.12.15 12:28:01 -
[3] - Quote
well, restraint comes in at the moment where invasion becomes occupation, but you're right, invasion is an inherently aggressive, unrestrained action.
As I said, the word I'd use over the retaking of Home would be "disciplined". Our forces did not allow themselves to be distracted from their objective. Personally, I'm glad it happened. Make of that what you will.
The Republic, meanwhile, has an ongoing cassus belli as you have mentioned. Their continued (albeit icy) civility to the Amarr in such circumstances demonstrates, for my money, a very level head indeed. Which rather runs contrary to the unfair stereotype of the "brash and angry Minmatar", doesn't it?
An in-character blog and a video:
http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
Low-Class
4102
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 00:25:06 -
[4] - Quote
Rodj Blake wrote:Considering some of the things that Federal forces get up to behind Amarrian and Caldari borders, do you really want to go down this path?
Not to put words in Andreus' mouth here, but if I were in his shoes... Yes, I'd be perfectly comfortable with that, actually.
There's this little thing called "intellectual honesty" you see. A claim of wrongdoing on the part of the Empire is not a tacit claim of infallibility on that of the Federation.
Besides, "tu quoque" - AKA Appeal to Hypocrisy - is an informal logical fallacy. It's an obfuscation, a distraction, a dodge, a "hey, look over there" and run away. You're not addressing the point, you're just hoping that by pointing out one side's wrongdoings your own will either be overlooked or else somehow exonerated.
The existence of illegal "we-will-disavow-all-knowledge" operations conducted by the Federation Navy in no way invalidates any observation of the existence of such operations being conducted by the Amarr Navy. Nor does the existence of one excuse, legitimize or justify the other.
If you're trying to say that any condemnation of one side's illegal operations must also constitute a condemnation of the other's then, well... Yes. Agreed. That should be obvious.
So, what's your actual point, Blake?
An in-character blog and a video:
http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
Low-Class
4102
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 00:41:11 -
[5] - Quote
We're all in glass houses, Pieter. if nobody ever threw stones then nothing would get done about it.
Making the world a better place by definition requires breaking the status quo.
An in-character blog and a video:
http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
Low-Class
4102
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 01:45:05 -
[6] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:But it doesn't require pretending that one Faction is responsible for all the Cluster's ills and that a certain other faction poops kittens and rainbows and happy things.
Exactly.
An in-character blog and a video:
http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
Low-Class
4102
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 02:23:51 -
[7] - Quote
The Federation aren't conducting slave raids.
An in-character blog and a video:
http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
Low-Class
4106
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 13:04:21 -
[8] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Stitcher wrote:The Federation aren't conducting slave raids. They are simply detaining POWs in illegal black facilities where they are subjected to Maker knows what with little hope of eventual release. Your concern for your countrymen is touching, though.
That's entirely deserving of condemnation, I agree. And if this were a conversation about that subject I'd happily weigh in and voice my concern for our fellow Caldari.
But, that's not what we're discussing right now. What we're discussing right now is illegal Amarrian slave raids, and if we get sidetracked onto a different subject - however similar it may be, and however worthy that subject may be to discuss in its own right - then that just means that Blake's tu quoque will have succeeded in distracting us.
If we want to start discussing what the Federation gets up to, sure. I'll pitch in like I have so many times before. But let's do that in its own thread, is what I'm saying, rather than allowing these Amarrian distraction tactics to work again.
Andreus Ixiris wrote:you should purge the entire Amarr Civil Service as well, and the Court Chamberlain, and the Ministry of War, and probably kill some of your Heirs too, because you can find documents from almost every single Amarrian authority sanctioning these raids if you go digging in the wreckage of the camps.
They might be illegal according to CONCORD, but they most certainly are sanctioned.
The more accurate term might be "authorised". Somebody with the authority to do so has given the order, whether or not they are sanctioned by the highest authorities or by interstellar law.
An in-character blog and a video:
http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
Low-Class
4106
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 13:14:34 -
[9] - Quote
the funny thing about hypocrisy is that it doesn't actually reduce the validity of any arguments made against other wrong-doing. It's perfectly valid for pirates to feel nothing but contempt for slavers.
Andreus isn't suggesting that the Federation is exempt from criticism. What he's saying is one thing at a time.
An in-character blog and a video:
http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
Low-Class
4107
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 13:29:52 -
[10] - Quote
Well said.
An in-character blog and a video:
http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
Low-Class
4110
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 15:30:25 -
[11] - Quote
Jukko Riis wrote:there are none of us who can claim the moral high ground.
that doesn't disqualify us from discussing who DOES claim it, though....
An in-character blog and a video:
http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
| |
|