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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.10.18 21:25:00 -
[61]
"Because in certain, quite common situations the "superior" equipment is actually inferior."
Perhaps, but it won't stop people from trying to fit as many affordable Miner II's on their ships as they manage, which is going to reduce demand for rare drops. Lower demand -- more nervous rare drop dealers start to reduce the prices. Others follow or find themselves another nice market niche...
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StealthNet
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Posted - 2003.10.18 21:27:00 -
[62]
 Quote:
"Because in certain, quite common situations the "superior" equipment is actually inferior."
Perhaps, but it won't stop people from trying to fit as many affordable Miner II's on their ships as they manage, which is going to reduce demand for rare drops. Lower demand -- more nervous rare drop dealers start to reduce the prices. Others follow or find themselves another nice market niche...
... or, they make a big pile and recycle them.
Or, they use it to equip corp members.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.18 21:29:00 -
[63]
Quote:
"If the Miner 2 price keeps dropping then things like the XeCls and Cu Vapors will end up sellign for more than Miner 2s and when that happens the idiot manufacturers will wake up and realise what is going on."
You are relying on presumption the prices of rare drops remain stable even when the price of superior equipment becomes competitive.
Why, exactly?..
Because, j0sephine:
He's one of the idiots.
Sabahl is attempting to pretend he's intelligent by hinting at some master plan. What he doesn't realize is that so long as he's limited by 48 per day, the only way he can affect the market is by scaring the other idiots.
And what he really doesn't realize is a herd that starts stampeding rarely stops where you want them to.
So either he's just an idiot trying to make up a plan to cover his blunders. Or he's an amazingly stupid idiot for thinking he can control a panic. Anyone want to bet on which? 
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Sabahl
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Posted - 2003.10.18 21:44:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Sabahl on 18/10/2003 21:47:21
But that's the thing about the Rare drops. They're rare. The rate they enter the system is far far slower than the rate that the Miner 2s are entering so if the demand for them remains the same then the sellers will probably see that they don't need to drop their prices.
Of course, you might be right and the same sheep effect will hit the peeps with the rare drop mienrs too, but given how long it takes to locate a new XeCl from a pirate drop I don't think there are enough generated so that this would actually happen.
And don't worry about Jash. He is just sore because he bought some Miner 2s off the market from me this morning at 2.15 mil with a view to re-selling them and making a profit. An then I dropped the price on him. SUCKER! 
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.18 21:51:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Jash Illian on 18/10/2003 21:55:11
Quote:
And don't worry about Jash. He is just sore because he bought 20 Miner 2s off the market from me this morning at 2.1 mil with a view to re-selling them and making a profit. An then I dropped the price on him. SUCKER!
Actually, I resold them for 2.75m elsewhere. What you missed was the panic effect I was speaking about and the other bits of interventions I and others did today. Stabilize at 2m eh? That's why I took 60m worth off the market at 1.5m-1.75m.
Idiot
P.S.
Thanks for the extra miners. Couldn't have made 138.25m without touching my own supply today without the help
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Sabahl
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Posted - 2003.10.18 21:53:00 -
[66]
So let me get this straight, you are manipulating the market by artificuially hiking the price for your own monetary gain and you are advertising the fact on here, in full knowledge of the backlash which occured against Techell. and in fact you are even gloating about it?
And then you call ME an idiot?
LOL!
I guess that is one less corp for everyone to deal with at least.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.18 22:06:00 -
[67]
Quote:
So let me get this straight, you are manipulating the market by artificuially hiking the price for your own monetary gain and you are advertising the fact on here, in full knowledge of the backlash which occured against Techell. and in fact you are even gloating about it?
And then you call ME an idiot?
LOL!
I guess that is one less corp for everyone to deal with at least.
I haven't artificially hiked anything. If I were going to artificially hike the prices, I'd buy out the entire supply in Heimatar right now and reprice them at whatever price I wanted. Safe in the knowledge that you're at the end of your production chain, with little to no stock and can be taken out easily as you dribble 5 miners onto the market at a time.
What I've been doing is meeting market prices while taking the idiot prices (eg. you) and exporting them to other locations. The prices I sell for there take in account any dangers and travel time, which obviously the people there have no issue paying for.
You're out of your league, Muppet.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Sabahl
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Posted - 2003.10.18 22:10:00 -
[68]
Jash, you were just owned. Shush now. You are only making it worse.
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Veshalik
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Posted - 2003.10.18 22:13:00 -
[69]
Sabahl, didn't I see you trying to sell your miner 2 BP for 1 billion isk earlier today on the trade channel? : )
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Carp Riddell
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Posted - 2003.10.18 22:14:00 -
[70]
Quote:
Actually, I resold them for 2.75m elsewhere. What you missed was the panic effect I was speaking about and the other bits of interventions I and others did today. Stabilize at 2m eh? That's why I took 60m worth off the market at 1.5m-1.75m.
I take it you sold them on Trade then? At the end of the day, I can be arsed spending hours and hours sat on the trade channel doing it. It's just not worth the effort. Unless you get a buyer who never reads the boards or looks at regional markets, it's a dead loss these days.
Plus, if you can shift them so easily at 2.75m, why don't you just buy Heimatar dry below that price and make killing?
However, I'd be wrong not to congratulate you on making money by speculating like that - it's good business.
- Carp Riddell
- CEO, Innsmouth Shipping
- Proud Member of Curse Alliance
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Sabahl
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Posted - 2003.10.18 22:18:00 -
[71]
Quote:
Sabahl, didn't I see you trying to sell your miner 2 BP for 1 billion isk earlier today on the trade channel? : )
Heh yeppers. Just because I can flatten the market doesn't mean I can be arsed doing it all the time. Morkt's original post is true. The prices are going to fall anyway for exactly the reasons he posted up. So I was thinking about gettign out of the market completely and letting the natural market direction work on its own.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.18 22:25:00 -
[72]
Quote:
I take it you sold them on Trade then? At the end of the day, I can be arsed spending hours and hours sat on the trade channel doing it. It's just not worth the effort. Unless you get a buyer who never reads the boards or looks at regional markets, it's a dead loss these days.
Plus, if you can shift them so easily at 2.75m, why don't you just buy Heimatar dry below that price and make killing?
However, I'd be wrong not to congratulate you on making money by speculating like that - it's good business.
I can't be arsed with Trade either. Sabahl was played more than once today. He just doesn't know it.
I posted on Trade
Quote:
Miner IIs for 2.175m @ Pator
5 times. Sabahl chimed in with 2.1m about the 3rd time. Yet he never wondered why I never changed my price even when he was obviously undercutting me?
Because I had met his price already as well with some of the miners bought at 1.75m and any advertisement he gave would sell those (since we're in the same solarsystem) so I wouldn't take a loss. Essentially, he was doing the advertisements for me.
The doing the rest is simply going to where the deep space miners are and using the markets there, as they can't be arsed travelling back to Empire space (no highways) and people like Sabahl are too lazy to travel to them.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Carp Riddell
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Posted - 2003.10.18 22:28:00 -
[73]
Quote:
funny thing is if the stupid muppets went elsewhere they could seel at 2.5 without any problems just like Techell... but "Oh no".. move to sell things? Never!
Sell things at the same price as others? Never!
Morkt, that is near-as-damnit complete ****. Moving around has some effect, but nowhere near as much as you think. Plus, I really can't be arsed with spending my entire time moving lil' piles of Miner IIs around the galaxy for the sake of a few extra million at the expense of people who're too damn lazy to visit a few regions before they buy.
As a near-as-damnit one man organisation, I don't have the time to play silly-******s on the Trade channel, or to constantly hop around regions checking prices.
I'd love to sell at the 5m I did 15 days ago, but I can't because supply has increased from almost none, to a good 3-400 a day at least.
As for selling at the same price, I challenge you to get hold of every Miner II producer in the galaxy for me! Don't try and arrange it, just get the names - it's not possible I assure you. No-one out there knows who we all are, and no-one knows how many there are of us. |
Kennian
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Posted - 2003.10.18 23:40:00 -
[74]
what gets me is you people are actuly SUPRISED...i knew this was comeing from day one. and as soon as i saw that news clip about someone getting a original i knew the price was going to drop like a brick...and lo and behold it has! i've been building ships sence day one, i've watched my profit margens drop...and drop...and drop...and drop...untill it's not even worth the effort to build anything under a battleship anymore...simply because 10k profit on a cruser isnt worth my time :P and 4k on a frig is insaine...
the miner 2 will continue to drop as more people aquire bp's...300 missions is difficult, but nowhere NEAR impossible...
i figure it'll bottom out at about 70k by the end of next month...right around wheen the rest of the tech 2 stuff is introduced. and the people on market are more worried about the "WTS UBER 1337 rare drop only mineing lasers" sell orders and have forgotten about this VERY BASIC piece of gear...
let it rest, there's no resisting entrophy
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2003.10.18 23:42:00 -
[75]
coconuts are tasty
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.18 23:58:00 -
[76]
Quote:
what gets me is you people are actuly SUPRISED...i knew this was comeing from day one. and as soon as i saw that news clip about someone getting a original i knew the price was going to drop like a brick...and lo and behold it has! i've been building ships sence day one, i've watched my profit margens drop...and drop...and drop...and drop...untill it's not even worth the effort to build anything under a battleship anymore...simply because 10k profit on a cruser isnt worth my time :P and 4k on a frig is insaine...
 You're selling cruisers for 10k profit
Hell, it's easy to clear 25% profit over cost (which is way more than 10k) with a little effort. Industrials are still capable of 50% over cost. If I can get the damn blueprint licensing killed, manufacturing might actually pick up a bit.
Quote:
i figure it'll bottom out at about 70k by the end of next month...right around wheen the rest of the tech 2 stuff is introduced. and the people on market are more worried about the "WTS UBER 1337 rare drop only mineing lasers" sell orders and have forgotten about this VERY BASIC piece of gear...
let it rest, there's no resisting entrophy
If you don't make the most of the moment, how can you expect to make anything from the future? And worse still, making predictions on Tech lvl 2? Something that was supposed to be implemented 2 months ago?!? 
I'd give more inspirational speeches and such but I actually like it when people surrender with little resistance.
Makes my job easier
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Redan Chulipa
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Posted - 2003.10.19 03:16:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Redan Chulipa on 19/10/2003 10:39:38
Here's a little business tip for the enterprising soul, sneak blueprint copies into claimed space, set up shop there selling everything for the farmer/miner, use an alt spreading the news that you sell the whole kit out there.
The only thing they need to do is get out there in shuttles, getting shot down at bottlenecks won't be an issue and once equipped the buyers scatter within the claimed region, word spread and your business tenfold, all at a far better profit margin than in empire space.
The alliance will most likely get wind of this and declare war on you and camp the station but I'm sure you can sneak past them and set up shop at another station there and repeat. 
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Imogen sparrow
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Posted - 2003.10.19 12:12:00 -
[78]
Quote:
As a near-as-damnit one man organisation, I don't have the time to play silly-******s on the Trade channel,
Oi! :)
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Moralis
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Posted - 2003.10.19 22:49:00 -
[79]
Quote:
Moving around has some effect, but nowhere near as much as you think.
@ Carp Riddell:
It had a huge effect before highways. That's one BIG point. It still has an effect now:
Quote:
I really can't be arsed with spending my entire time moving lil' piles of Miner IIs around the galaxy for the sake of a few extra million
A lot of people cant be arsed moving far to buy cheaper... and those millions become tens of very quickly.
You cant "know" this as you say you don't do it... what baffles me is how you know it isnt true at the same time?
Oddly enough the richest people are generally those who bother to make the extra millions, one man operations or not.. though I dont see a weeks worth of Miner IIs proving any problem in moving about... unless you can only fly a shuttle?
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Asmodia
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Posted - 2003.10.20 02:28:00 -
[80]
I like this treat, so i want to add something about 'undercut the price' :
The instrument to undercut a price is more difficult and complex as the most people see. Yes, you lower your profit from the first view, but it help to analyse the market and their suppliers (sellers).
Any manufactor knows the productions price for an item/ship. But the way to get the minerials for this are diffent.
In Eve the intruments to see, how much i could sell of a product are really good. So it easy to see how much items/ships you need to start a *funny* price match.
The point is when people stop to undercut your price. It is nearly possible to see , how much they pay for their minerals.
Finally you can 'force' people out of the market, if they see they can not make the profit. They will stop to build this item/ship and look for an other item/ship woth more profit or leave this region.
After that you can go back to a better price.
It is more complex, but tried it to keep it simple. But i 'dislike', if people only focus on 'one side of coin'
just my 2 cents
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CEO of Spectre Syndicate - Curse Alliance
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.20 03:39:00 -
[81]
Quote:
Quote:
Moving around has some effect, but nowhere near as much as you think.
@ Carp Riddell:
It had a huge effect before highways. That's one BIG point. It still has an effect now:
Quote:
I really can't be arsed with spending my entire time moving lil' piles of Miner IIs around the galaxy for the sake of a few extra million
A lot of people cant be arsed moving far to buy cheaper... and those millions become tens of very quickly.
You cant "know" this as you say you don't do it... what baffles me is how you know it isnt true at the same time?
Oddly enough the richest people are generally those who bother to make the extra millions, one man operations or not.. though I dont see a weeks worth of Miner IIs proving any problem in moving about... unless you can only fly a shuttle?
The effect is drastically muted now. Though with some effort you can still squeeze a bit out. If anything, the way the miner II price dropped universally has proven without a doubt the effects of the highways on manufactured goods.
A small group of manufacturers essentially control the price of an item across the entire universe. CCP will have the numbers concerning how many people have the blueprints and how many are manufacturing from them. But what's worse is they don't just control the Miner 2s.
The control the pricing on everything below them. All mining lasers are affected, manufactured and loot versions. The same will happen with all tech 2 modules.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Khonsu
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Posted - 2003.10.20 11:17:00 -
[82]
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
He can blame himself, me personally if I got a miner II bp I'd try to assemble a meeting with all parties involved (all those with a bp also) and try to negotiate a universal price where we'd all be on the watch for people undercutting our prices and buy up their stock if they try it. Ofcourse sensible prices are those what people are ready to buy them on vs. how many will buy them.
Have you heard about a law of physics called supply and demand
If you did what you propose on Earth, you'd be put in jail in no time
Also if you were on earth stealing and killing and destructing other's hard earned properties would put you in jail. So far you can get away with these actions in EVE.
Not if you do this in the middle of nowhere where there's no police around :)
Anyway, I was just trying to point out that this is a concept that doesn't belong in a free market. And EVE is a free market. You can't control it.
Miner II supply is rising. This leads to: Miner II prices will go down. How fast they will go down of course depends, and the sellers could take care to reduce the tendency.
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Ulendar
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Posted - 2003.10.20 11:35:00 -
[83]
WHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
*breaths*
WHOOOOOOHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHEHEHHEHEHEHEHAHAHAH
*breaths*
Man that IS funny!
Check this out man...
First its cool if you get someone noonelse has acces to...
Then its cool that you charge somuch for it that you make like 10000% profit..
Then you expect it to last forever or what??!
Welcome to ******* capitalism aye!
Most extotion cases end up with people turning up dead or getting busted and going to jail for a very long time. Consider yourself lucky that this time you get off the hook easy and are even allowed to keep all the extortion money.
'Oh NOT FAIR...now the gamemechanics are starting not to give me huge advantages over the rest of EVE players anymore waaa, waaa'
and this ones a classic
'i'm not a ripoff...i'm an entrepreneur!'
aye, so are lawyers that fill their wallets with shakedown cases.
'i'm a stupid bunghole that spilled hot coffee over myself...i want 2 million dollars from Mc donalds!'
Like i sayd...dont complain. Welcome to the flipside of capitalism.
Welcome to the REAL capitalism. Its like that day when people comes and shut down your poor little buyisk dot com website...awww, no more freeloading for me *sob-sob*
Originally by: cashman
It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this.
It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
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