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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.10.18 17:01:00 -
[1]
Obtain a BP for a limited-seller item that is in high demand.
Start a price war, keep undercutting your few competitors and watch the bottom drop out of your market.
"Hey you! With the pretty face...
Welcome to the human race..."
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Ganja
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Posted - 2003.10.18 17:02:00 -
[2]
bunnies?
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.10.18 17:04:00 -
[3]
Lemmings 
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.10.18 17:07:00 -
[4]
It was inevitable that a drone should get a hold of the miner II blueprint, good things also comes to those not deserving...
Convert Stations
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.18 17:18:00 -
[5]
I watched a person panic sell on Miner 2s. They undercut 6 miners by 250k with almost 6x the supply.
Lemmings are smarter
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Steini OFSI
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Posted - 2003.10.18 17:18:00 -
[6]
He can blame himself, me personally if I got a miner II bp I'd try to assemble a meeting with all parties involved (all those with a bp also) and try to negotiate a universal price where we'd all be on the watch for people undercutting our prices and buy up their stock if they try it. Ofcourse sensible prices are those what people are ready to buy them on vs. how many will buy them.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.10.18 17:25:00 -
[7]
What i dont understand, other than "why" is the manner in which it is done..
they see someone else selling at, say, 2.5m then they go "Aha! If HE is succesfully making ISk at that price just imagine how much more I will make by selling them at 2mil each!"
"Muwahahaha"
or the classic:
"OMG! OMG! OMFG! I havent sold them all within 30 seconds I must be overcharging!"
It is amusing but... its as though they actual dont like making money...
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Ezra
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Posted - 2003.10.18 17:27:00 -
[8]
Go figure.
First Techell were accused of being greedy bastards by half the world for pricing their miner IIs at 2.5mill.
Now, at the very same price, they're evil undercutters!
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
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Ezra Cornell
pe0n, Xanadu Corporation |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.10.18 17:28:00 -
[9]
Techell?
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.10.18 17:40:00 -
[10]
They're not evil, if their aim is to provide a service making less profit than they could, by all means, me I'd rather play locations and charge over 3M.
Convert Stations
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Khonsu
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Posted - 2003.10.18 17:42:00 -
[11]
 Quote:
He can blame himself, me personally if I got a miner II bp I'd try to assemble a meeting with all parties involved (all those with a bp also) and try to negotiate a universal price where we'd all be on the watch for people undercutting our prices and buy up their stock if they try it. Ofcourse sensible prices are those what people are ready to buy them on vs. how many will buy them.
Have you heard about a law of physics called supply and demand
If you did what you propose on Earth, you'd be put in jail in no time
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Ezra
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Posted - 2003.10.18 17:44:00 -
[12]
Quote:
Techell?
What, you didn't realize they've had their miners priced at 2.5mill each (Lower than current market prices even though far more BPs are now in circulation) since the moment they bought their BP copies 2-3 months ago?
The rationale was to make the miners more accessible to the "average Joe", thus (hopefully) putting a dent in trit prices. (At least I recall this was Techell's rationale for pricing their miners at half the price of everyone else.)
An admirable, if not crafty, goal. :)
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Ezra Cornell
pe0n, Xanadu Corporation |
Tyrrax Thorrk
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Posted - 2003.10.18 17:44:00 -
[13]
How about some details there Morkt ? Whatcha talking about 
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.10.18 17:49:00 -
[14]
2.5 is high..
theres little groups out in some regions do battle within the same system down below 2mil already...
funny thing is if the stupid muppets went elsewhere they could seel at 2.5 without any problems just like Techell... but "Oh no".. move to sell things? Never!
Sell things at the same price as others? Never!
We must undercut!
We live to undercut!
We pwn the market!
Phear the bunnies...
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Molly
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Posted - 2003.10.18 17:53:00 -
[15]
...
Supply and demand anyone?
I'd like to see the Miner II short above production costs soon. Do not care if Techell is going to make another 1,5 Billion ISK a week or not.
--
Kasha > Mastema, face the reality: All the juicy dots are gone.
-- |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.10.18 17:54:00 -
[16]
I should add that it isnt, personally, affecting me in the slightest, just that its an amazing study into lemming psychology... and thus something a Zoologist cannot possible ignore...
Personally i blame the highways almost entirely..
hmm
no i dont..
i blame the lack of breeding restrictions..
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Veshalik
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Posted - 2003.10.18 17:59:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Veshalik on 18/10/2003 18:00:22
Siting in the trade channel is a free ticket to watching the market for miner 2's self destruct. Quite entertaining really.
Joe> Miner 2's 2.5 Million
Larry> Miner 2's 2.0 Million!!!
Moe > Miner 2's 1.9 Million!!!!!!
Quite entertaining. That, or I"m just really bored. : )
Also, the highways are a big contributor to this, if you couldn't get anywhere in 5 minutes, people would actually have to check what Region you were even selling in, which would help protect prices... Also, just like Morkt, I have nothing to gain or lose, just fun to watch. : )
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Molly
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Posted - 2003.10.18 18:03:00 -
[18]
Quote:
2.5 is high..
theres little groups out in some regions do battle within the same system down below 2mil already...
funny thing is if the stupid muppets went elsewhere they could seel at 2.5 without any problems just like Techell... but "Oh no".. move to sell things? Never!
Sell things at the same price as others? Never!
We must undercut!
We live to undercut!
We pwn the market!
Phear the bunnies...
You are an arrogant bloke. Why don't you apply for a position in that stupid Trade Federation?
--
Kasha > Mastema, face the reality: All the juicy dots are gone.
-- |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.10.18 18:04:00 -
[19]
Quote:
You are an arrogant bloke. Why don't you apply for a position in that stupid Trade Federation?
Didnt you quit?
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Molly
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Posted - 2003.10.18 18:10:00 -
[20]
Quote:
Quote:
You are an arrogant bloke. Why don't you apply for a position in that stupid Trade Federation?
Didnt you quit?
No, I bought a 2nd account. Get over it.
You should apply for the Trade Federation and keep yelling and people trying to make some ISK and call them lemmings. Or you could read some basic stuff about economy and shut up.
--
Kasha > Mastema, face the reality: All the juicy dots are gone.
-- |
Tyrrax Thorrk
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Posted - 2003.10.18 18:19:00 -
[21]
Bah people are allowed to quit and then come back..
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Elan Morin
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Posted - 2003.10.18 18:20:00 -
[22]
Obviously the supply and demand got reversed and as such of course prices will fall.
I have yet to buy a MII, guess I'll wait another week and get em cheap as dirt.  |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.10.18 18:20:00 -
[23]
Quote:
No, I bought a 2nd account. Get over it.
You should apply for the Trade Federation and keep yelling and people trying to make some ISK and call them lemmings. Or you could read some basic stuff about economy and shut up.
Second account, same trolling.
You are a rock of consistency.
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Moralis
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Posted - 2003.10.18 18:27:00 -
[24]
Quote:
No, I bought a 2nd account. Get over it.
You should apply for the Trade Federation and keep yelling and people trying to make some ISK and call them lemmings. Or you could read some basic stuff about economy and shut up.
So you get to quit twice this time.
Somebody remind me who was begging for handouts recently:
a) Molly Mk MXCXVII still cant grasp fundamentals of this thread
b) Morkt Drak, well known wealthy individual
Molly, the entire point of the thread is that they are loosing out on ISK.
Your obvious failure to grasp even the simplest aspect of this thread should be staggering, but no - its Molly, it even suggests your involvemnt in the downward spiral of self-destruction of yet another market.
Let me help you out:
If they werent such muppets they would be making more.
So if you would stop being a troll and get a clue what the thread is about, it would help a lot.
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Molly
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Posted - 2003.10.18 18:28:00 -
[25]
Quote:
Quote:
No, I bought a 2nd account. Get over it.
You should apply for the Trade Federation and keep yelling and people trying to make some ISK and call them lemmings. Or you could read some basic stuff about economy and shut up.
Second account, same trolling.
You are a rock of consistency.
LOL. Maybe you should try to read your whinage and trolling about people trying to make ISK with some Miner II.
What's wrong with people bringing the price down to compete when the production costs are around 40-50k? They are still making profit.
I bet you would like to see a universe wide price fixing or a monopoly worth 1,5 Billion ISK a week Mr. Morkt 'Cartel' Drak.
--
Kasha > Mastema, face the reality: All the juicy dots are gone.
-- |
Molly
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Posted - 2003.10.18 18:34:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Molly on 18/10/2003 18:38:01
Quote:
Quote:
No, I bought a 2nd account. Get over it.
You should apply for the Trade Federation and keep yelling and people trying to make some ISK and call them lemmings. Or you could read some basic stuff about economy and shut up.
So you get to quit twice this time.
Somebody remind me who was begging for handouts recently:
a) Molly Mk MXCXVII still cant grasp fundamentals of this thread
b) Morkt Drak, well known wealthy individual
Molly, the entire point of the thread is that they are loosing out on ISK.
Your obvious failure to grasp even the simplest aspect of this thread should be staggering, but no - its Molly, it even suggests your involvemnt in the downward spiral of self-destruction of yet another market.
Let me help you out:
If they werent such muppets they would be making more.
So if you would stop being a troll and get a clue what the thread is about, it would help a lot.
If you would stop being a troll and get a clue what economy is about, you would realize that competition leads to lower prices.
There was no competition before. Now there is. You and Morkt are asking to cartelise the competition. Mortk even called the competing people "Braindead".
I am a consument, I am interesed in low prices. Why should I be interested in buying Miners II for 2,5 Million ISK til the end of the time?
If I am a troll, then you are megalomaniac oligarchs.
--
Kasha > Mastema, face the reality: All the juicy dots are gone.
-- |
Indigo Seqi
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Posted - 2003.10.18 18:36:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Indigo Seqi on 18/10/2003 18:36:50
Well if people buy through the market system, they will always get the lowest price on their screen. Then if there are multiple people offering at the lowest price, it will simply pick the one that made the first lowest price sell order. So in order to be the one people buy from if they buy via the market, you have to make sure you're the only one with the lowest price.
Go to Nonni if you need any mini electronics, they're selling 25% under NPC value atm there. Same situation.
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Torqamada
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Posted - 2003.10.18 18:37:00 -
[28]
OMG!!! They have found something to whine even louder about. Wholesaling and it strikes FEAR into their greedy minds. They want all of space to themselves and they want extortionist prices. You know Gateway and Dell and others would not be in business today had they maintained the prices for PC's as all their competitors did. They instead went with a differant model and today prices are lower and they are still making money. Now if they were selling below cost that is dumping and can not be maintained. So you can still sell at your higher prices - there will always be a percentage of buyers at a price. Now if it is still above cost well now my friend it is a long haul. They PC you are typing on would cost easily 4 or 5 times as much if we were still at the thought process you use for your argument. The point is lowering the price increases customer base and sells more for less for a net increase in profits.
There is that MUPPET enough for you - and this from a mercenary. I feel so dirty now. |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.10.18 18:44:00 -
[29]
"So in order to be the one people buy from if they buy via the market, you have to make sure you're the only one with the lowest price."
... Then it makes as much sense to undercut by single ISK, as it makes to undercut by mentioned 250k... since both brings your order to the front of the line. One will make you more money than the other, though.
And well, 'tis all in situation where there is actually larger supply than there is demand... is it the case? Having in mind Techell just recently selling their 300 lasers in just few hours for 2.5 mil a piece, i somehow doubt that....
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.10.18 18:46:00 -
[30]
As I understand english isnt your first language let me say this slowly - it might sink in:
Your concern is touching, however misguided.
These few producer hold a virtual monopoly on supply. There is little real need to compete or try to sell in a rush.
They can sell at 2.5 mil and make lots and lots of isk. They dont need to slice their - and i will emphasis in bold type here to help you out Molly - own profits by repeatedly undercutting each other.
Now - if you can spare the grey matter to actually lay off the goat-chewing or bridge repairs you may notice this would benefit them.
I know this is complex stuff, but try to grasp this thing - its called a concept.
Quote:
I bet you would like to see a universe wide price fixing or a monopoly worth 1,5 Billion ISK a week Mr. Morkt 'Cartel' Drak.
Ermm... yes.. of course I would if i was a part of it.
Im sure such a well known empathic person as your self would not purely on moral grounds.
Being as you ahve no so nicely troll'd this thread and made it into yet another ****ing contest of trolldom, i shall depart with some grace and leave you to your Artocarpus molestations.
Tourq - In your case nobody would fear the Spanish Inquisition.
Indeed you are muppet enough... especially as, as pointed out clearly, I am not involved in either buying or selling.
Its always the "little" details that catch you out isnt it?
Ah this was such jovial thread...
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Steini OFSI
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Posted - 2003.10.18 18:50:00 -
[31]
Quote:
Quote:
He can blame himself, me personally if I got a miner II bp I'd try to assemble a meeting with all parties involved (all those with a bp also) and try to negotiate a universal price where we'd all be on the watch for people undercutting our prices and buy up their stock if they try it. Ofcourse sensible prices are those what people are ready to buy them on vs. how many will buy them.
Have you heard about a law of physics called supply and demand
If you did what you propose on Earth, you'd be put in jail in no time
Also if you were on earth stealing and killing and destructing other's hard earned properties would put you in jail. So far you can get away with these actions in EVE.
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Tyrrax Thorrk
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Posted - 2003.10.18 18:51:00 -
[32]
Jovial thread ? Looked bitter/patronizing/cynical to me right from the start.. I don't see how calling people braindead is jovial..
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Cruise
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Posted - 2003.10.18 18:52:00 -
[33]
I keep reading about what braindead lemmings the people who are undercutting the prices are and it astounds me that these sort of tactics would even need mentioning.
Did everyone believe, truly, that Miner II's would stay at 2.5 mil per laser forever? The supply availability goes up, the demand goes down, the prices on stock that aren't moving similarly drop - it's not that hard to comprehend.
Calling people who are trying to be competitive and STILL draw a profit brain dead lemmings is, to be honest, rather abusive. If they're not as openly concerned about raking in as much isk as possible, that certainly isn't a reason to call them idiots. Techell dropped the prices with the 'Mega for Miner' offer and people accepted it....quite a few openly lauded the move and I don't see too many people calling them lemmings at this point.
There will be new Tech II items in the game - hopefully soon - and this process will repeat itself, particularly with initially high demand items. I personally wouldn't be surprised to see Miner II prices drop below 1 mil per unit within a month.
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Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis ad capul tuum saxum immane mittam.
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Molly
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Posted - 2003.10.18 18:56:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Molly on 18/10/2003 19:05:57
Yeah, all people who do not like the free-enterprise-system have concepts.
FYI: I bought 1 Miner II for 3,6 Million ISK each and 3 Miner II for 2,6 Million ISK each.
You are really cynical Morkt, the topic of your thread is "Braindead". Yet you got the balls to accuse me of turning the thread into a trollfest.
--
Kasha > Mastema, face the reality: All the juicy dots are gone.
-- |
nono
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Posted - 2003.10.18 19:01:00 -
[35]
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
You are an arrogant bloke. Why don't you apply for a position in that stupid Trade Federation?
Didnt you quit?
No, I bought a 2nd account. Get over it.
You should apply for the Trade Federation and keep yelling and people trying to make some ISK and call them lemmings. Or you could read some basic stuff about economy and shut up.
Wouldn't it have been easier to just fire back "Didn't you quit too?" Ahhh I remember the days.
I always figured Morkt was CaoCao anyway so I guess you could say he half quit.
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Moralis
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Posted - 2003.10.18 19:03:00 -
[36]
It is running off a cliff though.
They dont need to compete.
There arent hundreds or thousands out there selling these products as there are with everything else.
That is the point... that is why the BP was (supposedly) so sought after, to make ISK.
Not to not make isk in the shortest possible time because you undercut without need and turn a profitable item into yet another 2% profit item.
The growing howls of anguish here come from two sources:
THose who are only interested in buying the items (they will enver get the BP {Molly}
Those who have the BP and don't realise what they are doing to themselves.. what they did to all Tech I items and what they wont be able tod ow ith Tech II items if what the devs hope comes true.
The market wasnt supposed to be vicously cut down to this minimilistic price system you know?
EVE is about making money, not about helping the poor and needy (Molly). Molly's attitude about seeing making money as "Ebil" or a price-fixing cartel as some how "wrong" proves the point.. proves she will never make much money anyway which is why she has begging letters out to people.
Must be some left over teachings of those (ex) Eastern-bloc educational systems...
Damn the rich for being rich, demand nobody else becomes rich, and remain ever envious of the rich...
It is, accurately in such a game as EVE, stupid.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.10.18 19:06:00 -
[37]
Quote:
Wouldn't it have been easier to just fire back "Didn't you quit too?" Ahhh I remember the days.
I always figured Morkt was CaoCao anyway so I guess you could say he half quit.
Easier, yes, accurate, no.
You always figured wrong - a trait you have continued in your post.
Consistency is to be applauded, however.
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Moralis
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Posted - 2003.10.18 19:10:00 -
[38]
Wouldnt a "megalomanical oligarch" actually have achieved their delusion.. and thus, having achieved their dream... be no longer megalomaniacal?
(Why dream when you are?)
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Cruise
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Posted - 2003.10.18 19:14:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Cruise on 18/10/2003 19:15:50
Quote:
It is running off a cliff though.
They dont need to compete.
There arent hundreds or thousands out there selling these products as there are with everything else.
That is the point... that is why the BP was (supposedly) so sought after, to make ISK.
Not to not make isk in the shortest possible time because you undercut without need and turn a profitable item into yet another 2% profit item.
The growing howls of anguish here come from two sources:
THose who are only interested in buying the items (they will enver get the BP {Molly}
Those who have the BP and don't realise what they are doing to themselves.. what they did to all Tech I items and what they wont be able tod ow ith Tech II items if what the devs hope comes true.
The market wasnt supposed to be vicously cut down to this minimilistic price system you know?
EVE is about making money, not about helping the poor and needy (Molly). Molly's attitude about seeing making money as "Ebil" or a price-fixing cartel as some how "wrong" proves the point.. proves she will never make much money anyway which is why she has begging letters out to people.
Must be some left over teachings of those (ex) Eastern-bloc educational systems...
Damn the rich for being rich, demand nobody else becomes rich, and remain ever envious of the rich...
It is, accurately in such a game as EVE, stupid.
You're missing a vital point here: You view of economics and someone elses will ALWAYS differ. If everyone marketed items exactly the same way, with the same prices, with no change to the market - despite the supply being healthy - you would have NO competition. People would make the same money across the board and THAT is more like lemmings than ANY form of competition.
Let's say, for example, the Miner II's from the bp's that originally came into the game were manufactured and sold for 10% over cost. People would be buying them up left and right like there's no tomorrow and they'd just be 'the' laser everyone owned.
Now let's say the prices for them were nearly at extortion levels and almost NO one but big corps could EVER afford them, the outcry from the mining masses would be horrendous.
Just because people don't see the same opportunities that you might is NO reason to call them stupid. Competition fuels the market, it keeps the demand high and it drives those who either can't compete or won't compete out...effectively weeding out the chaff.
They are STILL making profits, just maybe not to a level of your liking. Miner II's won't be the end all to end all forever in this game, so please don't try and turn this into another 'there goes the market, close the doors, shut off the lights, the market is dead' because it's NOT. Similarly Miner II's AREN'T being sold for a small markup, they're still WAY over what the manufacturing costs are.
-------------------------------------------
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis ad capul tuum saxum immane mittam.
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nono
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Posted - 2003.10.18 19:17:00 -
[40]
Edited by: nono on 18/10/2003 19:17:55
Quote:
Easier, yes, accurate, no.
You always figured wrong - a trait you have continued in your post.
Consistency is to be applauded, however.
Accurate no?
I seem to remember sometime back with something to do with TTI, RL and your website. It's all a fog of past memory cells though. A signoff, a chow, an "I will continue to monitor the boards" etc. But then again maybe it's just my consistency in figuring again.
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Moralis
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Posted - 2003.10.18 19:23:00 -
[41]
Quote:
You're missing a vital point here: You view of economics and someone elses will ALWAYS differ. If everyone marketed items exactly the same way, with the same prices, with no change to the market - despite the supply being healthy - you would have NO competition. People would make the same money across the board and THAT is more like lemmings than ANY form of competition.
Let's say, for example, the Miner II bp's that originally came into the game were manufactured and sold for 10% over cost. People would be buying them up left and right like there's no tomorrow and they'd just be 'the' laser everyone owned.
Now let's say the prices for them were nearly at extortion levels and almost NO one but big corps could EVER afford them, the outcry from the mining masses would be horrendous.
Just because people don't see the same opportunities that you might is NO reason to call them stupid. Competition fuels the market, it keeps the demand high and it drives those who either can't compete or won't compete out...effectively weeding out the chaff.
They are STILL making profits, just maybe not to a level of your liking. Miner II's won't be the end all to end all forever in this game, so please don't try and turn this into another 'there goes the market, close the doors, shut off the lights, the market is dead' because it's NOT. Similarly Miner II's AREN'T being sold for a small markup, they're still WAY over what the manufacturing costs are.
No, you are mising vital points here.
Providing healthy competition isnt a goal of economics... thats a philosophical goal.
Economics in EVE means having ISK, lots of it to buy things.
Cutting your price from 2.5 million to 2 million and under in the space of a day despite the fact that others are still selling out at 2.5million or higher...
note that - "still selling out at 2.5million or higher!
... is, stupid.
Its stupid.
You are intentionally not making as much isk as you could.
Deliberately.
For a reason or..
you are stupid and dont realise this.
(Some would say stupid either way)
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.18 19:24:00 -
[42]
There is a difference between being competitive and being an idiot. And there are a lot of idiots apparently.
For example, on a given day about 100-200 miner IIs will sell in a particular region. For the day, there have been 20ish sales. Someone comes on the market with 10 Miner IIs and undercuts the 50 you have on the market.
A competitive person might take 10 out of their 50 to a different location and price near the lowest bid. A smart person would look at the volume offered vs the average amount being sold in the region and completely ignore the new seller.
An idiot pulls all 50 of theirs off the market and immediately reprices under the new person. Trust me when I say there are a lot of idiots out there.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Molly
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Posted - 2003.10.18 19:30:00 -
[43]
Quote:
It is running off a cliff though.
They dont need to compete.
What a blatant bull****. E.g.:
There is a demand for 10 Miner II.
There are 2 suppliers of Miner II for 2,5 Million ISK each and 1 supplier of Miner II for 2,25 Million ISK each. So, who is going to sell 10 of them? And, would it be better for the 3rd supplier to share his profits with the 2 others at this price difference?
You need to realize that the demand is not endless. So the suppliers do need to compete, because the possibilities to bypass a fixed price in a cartel is very easy for one of the suppliers anyway!
Quote:
There arent hundreds or thousands out there selling these products as there are with everything else.
That is the point... that is why the BP was (supposedly) so sought after, to make ISK.
Not to not make isk in the shortest possible time because you undercut without need and turn a profitable item into yet another 2% profit item.
It will be a yet another 2% profit item in some time. And there is nothing wrong with it, because some people already made billions of ISK with it. At some point the demand could even stop fully, and it will be a 0% profit item. Regardless of a price of 2,5 Million ISK or 60k ISK.
Quote:
The growing howls of anguish here come from two sources:
THose who are only interested in buying the items (they will enver get the BP {Molly}
Those who have the BP and don't realise what they are doing to themselves.. what they did to all Tech I items and what they wont be able tod ow ith Tech II items if what the devs hope comes true.
Lol. The winner of a price fixing cartel will be always the person with a better quality of product (price, availability, grade). And if it's the same product, then the winner of a price fixing cartel will be always the person with the best price. You want same profit for everyone.
Quote:
The market wasnt supposed to be vicously cut down to this minimilistic price system you know?
EVE is about making money, not about helping the poor and needy (Molly). Molly's attitude about seeing making money as "Ebil" or a price-fixing cartel as some how "wrong" proves the point.. proves she will never make much money anyway which is why she has begging letters out to people.
Now, that was good. YOU WANT ALL THE PEOPLE TO SELL AT THE SAME PRICE. YOU WANT TO SHARE THE PROFITS AMONG A GROUP. I want to see one person ******* the carel and making more money than one member of such a cartel. I am for a free economy. I don't have anything against rich people and I don't have anything against buying from rich people (which I do all the time).
Quote:
Must be some left over teachings of those (ex) Eastern-bloc educational systems...
Damn the rich for being rich, demand nobody else becomes rich, and remain ever envious of the rich...
It is, accurately in such a game as EVE, stupid.
LOL. What do you know about the educational systems of the Eastern Bloc?
Nothing. How could you?
I am for free enterprise. That's an (western) attainment. You are for price-rigging. That's an approach of a few to keep the money to themself. Oligarchy is wide spread in Russia, an ex-communist country. So you are more Eastern Bloc than I am. Full of contradictions.
I am sick to argue with people who call mercantilists braindead and doom the free enterprise.
--
Kasha > Mastema, face the reality: All the juicy dots are gone.
-- |
Morkt Drakt
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 19:31:00 -
[44]
Quote:
Edited by: nono on 18/10/2003 19:17:55
Quote:
Easier, yes, accurate, no.
You 'always' figured wrong - a trait you have continued in your post.
Consistency is to be applauded, however.
Accurate no?
I seem to remember sometime back with something to do with TTI, RL and your website. It's all a fog of past memory cells though. A signoff, a chow, an "I will continue to monitor the boards" etc. But then again maybe it's just my consistency in figuring again.
/em sighs
Correct. It is just your figuring.
If "certain actions" werent taken to ensure threats werent stopped then i would be forced to leave.
They were, I didn't.
Need anything else?
|
Moralis
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 19:37:00 -
[45]
Quote:
There are 2 suppliers of Miner II for 2,5 Million ISK each and 1 supplier of Miner II for 2,25 Million ISK each.
Part of your problem here Molly is that you dont know what you are talking about. Not the theory (well) - the events.
Those 3 people are selling in the same frikkin system.. meanwhile there are entire regions with no supply at all.
All three people can sell ALL their Miner IIs stocks at 2.5million.
All they have to do is get off their big fat lazy backsides to do it "elsewhere".
They don't, they stay, undercut each other and end up not selling even half their stock below 2mil...because theres another 4 people who have flocked to the muppet system to join them in not selling.
It is stupid.
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Cruise
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 19:38:00 -
[46]
Look, there are always going to be people out there looking for the quick-turn monetary gain. They do it for 'whatever' reason, but they do it.
Eve economy may be about hoarding isk to you, but trust me it ISN'T about hoarding isk to everyone playing the game. Sincerely. It's a GAME, yes, and it's multifaceted to allow people to go for as much isk as possible; engage in PvP; PK; Mine til you drop; raid those same miners and tick them off; exploring the Eve universe; checking out npc hunting hotspots and engaging some rats - it's about a LOT of things - but please don't tell me the absolute, ultimate everyone-has-to-do-this-or-they're-braindead player choice in the game HAS to be make as much isk as possible.
I personally play the game for the interaction between myself and the people I've met and befriended in this game. I don't choose to go for being Daddy Warbucks and I still enjoy the hell out of the game, regardless of how much isk I do or don't make.
At the end of the day I shut off that PC, go to bed and the economy in Eve chugs along with or without me. If someone wants to undercut the prices in the game, so be it. If you want to call them stupid, call them stupid. Ain't it great that their choices in playing the game earn them idiot titles by those who don't agree. Bravo.
-------------------------------------------
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis ad capul tuum saxum immane mittam.
|
Molly
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 19:41:00 -
[47]
Quote:
Providing healthy competition isnt a goal of economics... thats a philosophical goal.
Hahahaha. OMG!
Competition is needed for inventions and inventions are a part of the economy. Otherwise you would still sit in a horse-drawn carriage.
There is no differece for a supplier in selling a horse-drawn carriage with 50.000 Euro profit or a car with 50.000 Euro profit.
You are disqualified. No more discussions with you. Meanwhile you can philosophise about
- why a free economy should increase the prosperity of suppliers only,
and if you "discover" that, you can ask yourself
- how the consuments will increase their efficiency in order to earn new money for buying additional expensive items while being in a horse-drawn carriage.
--
Kasha > Mastema, face the reality: All the juicy dots are gone.
-- |
Moralis
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 19:44:00 -
[48]
Problem is Cruise that the same muppets who aren't making the isk are the same muppets who will then complain they havent made the isk.
What i think isnt the case, that the very people who are underselling themselves complain the "market system is broke" probably is.
The concept behind the mission BPs is that they are rare and they are a financial reward potential after hacking through the missions.
Sure folks can do what they want - they can sell Miner IIs at 1isk if they want.. point is, its stupid to do so if they want to make isk.
No way around it.
It is stupid.
|
Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 19:46:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Jash Illian on 18/10/2003 19:52:19
Quote:
Quote:
Providing healthy competition isnt a goal of economics... thats a philosophical goal.
Hahahaha. OMG!
Competition is needed for inventions and inventions are a part of the economy. Otherwise you would still sit in a horse-drawn carriage.
There is no differece for a supplier in selling a horse-drawn carriage with 50.000 Euro profit or a car with 50.000 Euro profit.
You are disqualified. No more discussions with you. Meanwhile you can philosophise about
- why a free economy should increase the prosperity of suppliers only,
and if you "discover" that, you can ask yourself
- how the consuments will increase their efficiency in order to earn new money for buying additional expensive items while being in a horse-drawn carriage.
No, Molly. The idiots have blueprints and are running amok. Undercutting your competition? Smart move. Undercutting your competition by nearly 1/5th their price? Erm...edging close to the 'Stupid' level.
Undercutting the entire market by nearly 1/5th the lowest price with your entire supply at the end of your production chain with nearly a full day to go? 3 1/2 somersault with a 1/2 twist off the 'Stupid Cliff'. 
Quote:
Problem is Cruise that the same muppets who aren't making the isk are the same muppets who will then complain they havent made the isk.
Got it in one, Moralis.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Moralis
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 19:47:00 -
[50]
Quote:
Hahahaha. OMG!
Competition is needed for inventions and inventions are a part of the economy. Otherwise you would still sit in a horse-drawn carriage.
I think you will find that conflict is the greatest stimuli for inventions..
so we should throw the Miner IIs at each other because they are only being made by people to stimulate inventions and ..?
You are totally mad aren't you Molly?
|
Johnsus
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 20:14:00 -
[51]
Wow, there's a lot of people here who really have a grasp on economics... and even more who do not. It's the same in every MMOG I've tried, whenever there's a "market" of sorts... Guy A sells for 'x' dollars, and guy B comes home from school, doesn't want to get under-bid, and drops his price to 'x-1', and thus it goes until the wise consumer (like me!) comes swooping in and buys 10 Miner II's for 100k total.
Keep it droppin, kiddies. I ain't got a lot of cash. |
Sabahl
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 20:17:00 -
[52]
Well I got my Miner 2 BP last night. Manufactured a good supply of Mienr 2s. Slapped them on the market in Pator at 150k lower than the next highest bid.
Why? Am I completely unaware of market economics? Am I just an idiot who has no concept of the trade mechanics at work here?
Of course not and anyone who knows how I operate on the markets would understand that. very simply I want the price to crash for my own reasons, and sure enough it has been doing quite nicely, down 17% since last night. I believe it will stabilise in Pator at approximately 2 mil today and will fall by a further 100-200k tomorrow. The final stabilisation price should be somewhere around the 800k to 1 mil mark by the end of next week or the week after which will do me just fine. Any less than this and it will undermine the rare-drop miners market which is not the aim of the game (especially as those items are still damn useful given their lower fitting reqs).
So why am I doing this? I'll leave that for you guys to work out. But it's fun watching the fireworks, isn't it. 
|
Shaelin Corpius
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 20:24:00 -
[53]
OMG, What have I done. I started the Trade Federation a long long long time ago. All that was is a bunch of us rich folk that decided to price fix a bunch of stuff so other ppl would maybe think about dropping their prices. And now look, it got the some of the big wigs all up in arms. Funny, maybe. We made alot of isk doing it. I don't even know if the Trade Fed still exists. But hey, price war is a price war. If you can't beat em at that, start a real war with em.
Worked for me. And no, I had nothing to do with the miner 2's or the Superconductors. Oh, and we still had to deal with ppl dropping the price all the time, just that we dealt with them in a more uncivilized fashion.
Money is the root of all evil, thats why we need it all. Because its evil and it will corrupt you.
Have a Nice Day!Buy things, it makes you feel better about yourself, honestly
|
Moralis
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 20:27:00 -
[54]
Which should be do-able Sabahl in a region, maybe two.
Not pan-galactically though.. back to the arch-nemesis of regional markets, the highways. 
|
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 20:34:00 -
[55]
"The final stabilisation price should be somewhere around the 800k to 1 mil mark by the end of next week or the week after which will do me just fine. Any less than this and it will undermine the rare-drop miners market which is not the aim of the game (especially as those items are still damn useful given their lower fitting reqs)."
... If you expect the Miner II undercutters to give a damn about the rare-drops market and what effect they might have on it... you're in for a nasty surprise. :s
(and so are both the NPC and PC hunters making money off those for that matter...)
|
Sabahl
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 21:02:00 -
[56]
Actually the main hub for the Mienr 2 price drops is Pator which is on the highway, 1 jump from Yulai so the effect should propagate nicely.
And yes, I do expect the undercutters to realise the stable price is around the 1 mil mark because the rare lasers will still sell for that amount even if the Miner 2s go lower. If the Miner 2 price keeps dropping then things like the XeCls and Cu Vapors will end up sellign for more than Miner 2s and when that happens the idiot manufacturers will wake up and realise what is going on. Think of it as the pricing equivalent of a slap int he face with a wet hallibut.
|
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 21:06:00 -
[57]
"If the Miner 2 price keeps dropping then things like the XeCls and Cu Vapors will end up sellign for more than Miner 2s and when that happens the idiot manufacturers will wake up and realise what is going on."
You are relying on presumption the prices of rare drops remain stable even when the price of superior equipment becomes competitive.
Why, exactly?..
|
Carp Riddell
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 21:13:00 -
[58]
Quote:
Obtain a BP for a limited-seller item that is in high demand.
Start a price war, keep undercutting your few competitors and watch the bottom drop out of your market.
Do I detect a considerable hint of sour grapes here?
The economics of the Miner II in the last week are pretty simple.
1) Techell release 450 at 2.5m each, and announced it on the forums.
2) A screwy downtime left the producers with production time with no sales time.
3) There are now probably a good 10 or so unlimited run Miner II producers out there.
4) 1.5m - 2m per Miner II is still a _lot_ of profit.
From a personal perspective...
When we got the BP 15 days ago, you could sell the things on Trade for 5m each without having to try due to lack of supply - it's that simple. There were no known regular free-market sellers then, and showing up with 20 Miner IIs in your pocket meant making ISK was trivial.
Since then, constant free-market supply has shot up by a factor of at least ten, plus Techell dumped 9 supplier-days worth in one hit. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out what this'll do to price. The only way to "keep the price up" at the moment is for all Miner II producers to get together and rig the market - this ain't going to happen.....
(more)
- Carp Riddell
- CEO, Innsmouth Shipping
- Proud Member of Curse Alliance
|
Sabahl
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 21:15:00 -
[59]
Quote:
You are relying on presumption the prices of rare drops remain stable even when the price of superior equipment becomes competitive.
Why, exactly?..
Because in certain, quite common situations the "superior" equipment is actually inferior.
|
Carp Riddell
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 21:20:00 -
[60]
And as for being "idiots" for selling cheap, I've never heard so much rubbish, especially from Jash! If we're idiots for selling "cheap" (at the lowest price I've sold, I make about 80m ISK per day for doing next to nothing), then why is it that you didn't step in to buy until the price dropped below 2m in Heimatar? Surely if we're "idiots" for selling cheap, then 3m must have been a sensible price and you were an idiot for not buying at the price! Jash, you're no idiot and neither am I.
The other thing that's got to be figured in to this is that Miner II prices were kept high before by speculation. It was easy to speculate 2 weeks ago because the supply was small enough for a canny and rich buyer to control - now it's not - you'd need the best part of a billion per day to control the Miner II supply now, and there's no-one out there rich or daft enough to do it.
- Carp Riddell
- CEO, Innsmouth Shipping
- Proud Member of Curse Alliance
|
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 21:25:00 -
[61]
"Because in certain, quite common situations the "superior" equipment is actually inferior."
Perhaps, but it won't stop people from trying to fit as many affordable Miner II's on their ships as they manage, which is going to reduce demand for rare drops. Lower demand -- more nervous rare drop dealers start to reduce the prices. Others follow or find themselves another nice market niche...
|
StealthNet
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 21:27:00 -
[62]
Quote:
"Because in certain, quite common situations the "superior" equipment is actually inferior."
Perhaps, but it won't stop people from trying to fit as many affordable Miner II's on their ships as they manage, which is going to reduce demand for rare drops. Lower demand -- more nervous rare drop dealers start to reduce the prices. Others follow or find themselves another nice market niche...
... or, they make a big pile and recycle them.
Or, they use it to equip corp members.
_______________________________________________
|
Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 21:29:00 -
[63]
Quote:
"If the Miner 2 price keeps dropping then things like the XeCls and Cu Vapors will end up sellign for more than Miner 2s and when that happens the idiot manufacturers will wake up and realise what is going on."
You are relying on presumption the prices of rare drops remain stable even when the price of superior equipment becomes competitive.
Why, exactly?..
Because, j0sephine:
He's one of the idiots.
Sabahl is attempting to pretend he's intelligent by hinting at some master plan. What he doesn't realize is that so long as he's limited by 48 per day, the only way he can affect the market is by scaring the other idiots.
And what he really doesn't realize is a herd that starts stampeding rarely stops where you want them to.
So either he's just an idiot trying to make up a plan to cover his blunders. Or he's an amazingly stupid idiot for thinking he can control a panic. Anyone want to bet on which?
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Sabahl
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 21:44:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Sabahl on 18/10/2003 21:47:21
But that's the thing about the Rare drops. They're rare. The rate they enter the system is far far slower than the rate that the Miner 2s are entering so if the demand for them remains the same then the sellers will probably see that they don't need to drop their prices.
Of course, you might be right and the same sheep effect will hit the peeps with the rare drop mienrs too, but given how long it takes to locate a new XeCl from a pirate drop I don't think there are enough generated so that this would actually happen.
And don't worry about Jash. He is just sore because he bought some Miner 2s off the market from me this morning at 2.15 mil with a view to re-selling them and making a profit. An then I dropped the price on him. SUCKER!
|
Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 21:51:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Jash Illian on 18/10/2003 21:55:11
Quote:
And don't worry about Jash. He is just sore because he bought 20 Miner 2s off the market from me this morning at 2.1 mil with a view to re-selling them and making a profit. An then I dropped the price on him. SUCKER!
Actually, I resold them for 2.75m elsewhere. What you missed was the panic effect I was speaking about and the other bits of interventions I and others did today. Stabilize at 2m eh? That's why I took 60m worth off the market at 1.5m-1.75m.
Idiot
P.S.
Thanks for the extra miners. Couldn't have made 138.25m without touching my own supply today without the help
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Sabahl
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 21:53:00 -
[66]
So let me get this straight, you are manipulating the market by artificuially hiking the price for your own monetary gain and you are advertising the fact on here, in full knowledge of the backlash which occured against Techell. and in fact you are even gloating about it?
And then you call ME an idiot?
LOL!
I guess that is one less corp for everyone to deal with at least.
|
Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 22:06:00 -
[67]
Quote:
So let me get this straight, you are manipulating the market by artificuially hiking the price for your own monetary gain and you are advertising the fact on here, in full knowledge of the backlash which occured against Techell. and in fact you are even gloating about it?
And then you call ME an idiot?
LOL!
I guess that is one less corp for everyone to deal with at least.
I haven't artificially hiked anything. If I were going to artificially hike the prices, I'd buy out the entire supply in Heimatar right now and reprice them at whatever price I wanted. Safe in the knowledge that you're at the end of your production chain, with little to no stock and can be taken out easily as you dribble 5 miners onto the market at a time.
What I've been doing is meeting market prices while taking the idiot prices (eg. you) and exporting them to other locations. The prices I sell for there take in account any dangers and travel time, which obviously the people there have no issue paying for.
You're out of your league, Muppet.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Sabahl
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 22:10:00 -
[68]
Jash, you were just owned. Shush now. You are only making it worse.
|
Veshalik
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 22:13:00 -
[69]
Sabahl, didn't I see you trying to sell your miner 2 BP for 1 billion isk earlier today on the trade channel? : )
|
Carp Riddell
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 22:14:00 -
[70]
Quote:
Actually, I resold them for 2.75m elsewhere. What you missed was the panic effect I was speaking about and the other bits of interventions I and others did today. Stabilize at 2m eh? That's why I took 60m worth off the market at 1.5m-1.75m.
I take it you sold them on Trade then? At the end of the day, I can be arsed spending hours and hours sat on the trade channel doing it. It's just not worth the effort. Unless you get a buyer who never reads the boards or looks at regional markets, it's a dead loss these days.
Plus, if you can shift them so easily at 2.75m, why don't you just buy Heimatar dry below that price and make killing?
However, I'd be wrong not to congratulate you on making money by speculating like that - it's good business.
- Carp Riddell
- CEO, Innsmouth Shipping
- Proud Member of Curse Alliance
|
Sabahl
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 22:18:00 -
[71]
Quote:
Sabahl, didn't I see you trying to sell your miner 2 BP for 1 billion isk earlier today on the trade channel? : )
Heh yeppers. Just because I can flatten the market doesn't mean I can be arsed doing it all the time. Morkt's original post is true. The prices are going to fall anyway for exactly the reasons he posted up. So I was thinking about gettign out of the market completely and letting the natural market direction work on its own.
|
Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 22:25:00 -
[72]
Quote:
I take it you sold them on Trade then? At the end of the day, I can be arsed spending hours and hours sat on the trade channel doing it. It's just not worth the effort. Unless you get a buyer who never reads the boards or looks at regional markets, it's a dead loss these days.
Plus, if you can shift them so easily at 2.75m, why don't you just buy Heimatar dry below that price and make killing?
However, I'd be wrong not to congratulate you on making money by speculating like that - it's good business.
I can't be arsed with Trade either. Sabahl was played more than once today. He just doesn't know it.
I posted on Trade
Quote:
Miner IIs for 2.175m @ Pator
5 times. Sabahl chimed in with 2.1m about the 3rd time. Yet he never wondered why I never changed my price even when he was obviously undercutting me?
Because I had met his price already as well with some of the miners bought at 1.75m and any advertisement he gave would sell those (since we're in the same solarsystem) so I wouldn't take a loss. Essentially, he was doing the advertisements for me.
The doing the rest is simply going to where the deep space miners are and using the markets there, as they can't be arsed travelling back to Empire space (no highways) and people like Sabahl are too lazy to travel to them.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Carp Riddell
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 22:28:00 -
[73]
Quote:
funny thing is if the stupid muppets went elsewhere they could seel at 2.5 without any problems just like Techell... but "Oh no".. move to sell things? Never!
Sell things at the same price as others? Never!
Morkt, that is near-as-damnit complete ****. Moving around has some effect, but nowhere near as much as you think. Plus, I really can't be arsed with spending my entire time moving lil' piles of Miner IIs around the galaxy for the sake of a few extra million at the expense of people who're too damn lazy to visit a few regions before they buy.
As a near-as-damnit one man organisation, I don't have the time to play silly-******s on the Trade channel, or to constantly hop around regions checking prices.
I'd love to sell at the 5m I did 15 days ago, but I can't because supply has increased from almost none, to a good 3-400 a day at least.
As for selling at the same price, I challenge you to get hold of every Miner II producer in the galaxy for me! Don't try and arrange it, just get the names - it's not possible I assure you. No-one out there knows who we all are, and no-one knows how many there are of us. |
Kennian
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 23:40:00 -
[74]
what gets me is you people are actuly SUPRISED...i knew this was comeing from day one. and as soon as i saw that news clip about someone getting a original i knew the price was going to drop like a brick...and lo and behold it has! i've been building ships sence day one, i've watched my profit margens drop...and drop...and drop...and drop...untill it's not even worth the effort to build anything under a battleship anymore...simply because 10k profit on a cruser isnt worth my time :P and 4k on a frig is insaine...
the miner 2 will continue to drop as more people aquire bp's...300 missions is difficult, but nowhere NEAR impossible...
i figure it'll bottom out at about 70k by the end of next month...right around wheen the rest of the tech 2 stuff is introduced. and the people on market are more worried about the "WTS UBER 1337 rare drop only mineing lasers" sell orders and have forgotten about this VERY BASIC piece of gear...
let it rest, there's no resisting entrophy
] |
Viceroy
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 23:42:00 -
[75]
coconuts are tasty
-
|
Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2003.10.18 23:58:00 -
[76]
Quote:
what gets me is you people are actuly SUPRISED...i knew this was comeing from day one. and as soon as i saw that news clip about someone getting a original i knew the price was going to drop like a brick...and lo and behold it has! i've been building ships sence day one, i've watched my profit margens drop...and drop...and drop...and drop...untill it's not even worth the effort to build anything under a battleship anymore...simply because 10k profit on a cruser isnt worth my time :P and 4k on a frig is insaine...
You're selling cruisers for 10k profit
Hell, it's easy to clear 25% profit over cost (which is way more than 10k) with a little effort. Industrials are still capable of 50% over cost. If I can get the damn blueprint licensing killed, manufacturing might actually pick up a bit.
Quote:
i figure it'll bottom out at about 70k by the end of next month...right around wheen the rest of the tech 2 stuff is introduced. and the people on market are more worried about the "WTS UBER 1337 rare drop only mineing lasers" sell orders and have forgotten about this VERY BASIC piece of gear...
let it rest, there's no resisting entrophy
If you don't make the most of the moment, how can you expect to make anything from the future? And worse still, making predictions on Tech lvl 2? Something that was supposed to be implemented 2 months ago?!?
I'd give more inspirational speeches and such but I actually like it when people surrender with little resistance.
Makes my job easier
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Redan Chulipa
|
Posted - 2003.10.19 03:16:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Redan Chulipa on 19/10/2003 10:39:38
Here's a little business tip for the enterprising soul, sneak blueprint copies into claimed space, set up shop there selling everything for the farmer/miner, use an alt spreading the news that you sell the whole kit out there.
The only thing they need to do is get out there in shuttles, getting shot down at bottlenecks won't be an issue and once equipped the buyers scatter within the claimed region, word spread and your business tenfold, all at a far better profit margin than in empire space.
The alliance will most likely get wind of this and declare war on you and camp the station but I'm sure you can sneak past them and set up shop at another station there and repeat.
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Imogen sparrow
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Posted - 2003.10.19 12:12:00 -
[78]
Quote:
As a near-as-damnit one man organisation, I don't have the time to play silly-******s on the Trade channel,
Oi! :)
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Moralis
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Posted - 2003.10.19 22:49:00 -
[79]
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Moving around has some effect, but nowhere near as much as you think.
@ Carp Riddell:
It had a huge effect before highways. That's one BIG point. It still has an effect now:
Quote:
I really can't be arsed with spending my entire time moving lil' piles of Miner IIs around the galaxy for the sake of a few extra million
A lot of people cant be arsed moving far to buy cheaper... and those millions become tens of very quickly.
You cant "know" this as you say you don't do it... what baffles me is how you know it isnt true at the same time?
Oddly enough the richest people are generally those who bother to make the extra millions, one man operations or not.. though I dont see a weeks worth of Miner IIs proving any problem in moving about... unless you can only fly a shuttle?
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Asmodia
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Posted - 2003.10.20 02:28:00 -
[80]
I like this treat, so i want to add something about 'undercut the price' :
The instrument to undercut a price is more difficult and complex as the most people see. Yes, you lower your profit from the first view, but it help to analyse the market and their suppliers (sellers).
Any manufactor knows the productions price for an item/ship. But the way to get the minerials for this are diffent.
In Eve the intruments to see, how much i could sell of a product are really good. So it easy to see how much items/ships you need to start a *funny* price match.
The point is when people stop to undercut your price. It is nearly possible to see , how much they pay for their minerals.
Finally you can 'force' people out of the market, if they see they can not make the profit. They will stop to build this item/ship and look for an other item/ship woth more profit or leave this region.
After that you can go back to a better price.
It is more complex, but tried it to keep it simple. But i 'dislike', if people only focus on 'one side of coin'
just my 2 cents
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CEO of Spectre Syndicate - Curse Alliance
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.20 03:39:00 -
[81]
Quote:
Quote:
Moving around has some effect, but nowhere near as much as you think.
@ Carp Riddell:
It had a huge effect before highways. That's one BIG point. It still has an effect now:
Quote:
I really can't be arsed with spending my entire time moving lil' piles of Miner IIs around the galaxy for the sake of a few extra million
A lot of people cant be arsed moving far to buy cheaper... and those millions become tens of very quickly.
You cant "know" this as you say you don't do it... what baffles me is how you know it isnt true at the same time?
Oddly enough the richest people are generally those who bother to make the extra millions, one man operations or not.. though I dont see a weeks worth of Miner IIs proving any problem in moving about... unless you can only fly a shuttle?
The effect is drastically muted now. Though with some effort you can still squeeze a bit out. If anything, the way the miner II price dropped universally has proven without a doubt the effects of the highways on manufactured goods.
A small group of manufacturers essentially control the price of an item across the entire universe. CCP will have the numbers concerning how many people have the blueprints and how many are manufacturing from them. But what's worse is they don't just control the Miner 2s.
The control the pricing on everything below them. All mining lasers are affected, manufactured and loot versions. The same will happen with all tech 2 modules.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Khonsu
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Posted - 2003.10.20 11:17:00 -
[82]
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Quote:
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He can blame himself, me personally if I got a miner II bp I'd try to assemble a meeting with all parties involved (all those with a bp also) and try to negotiate a universal price where we'd all be on the watch for people undercutting our prices and buy up their stock if they try it. Ofcourse sensible prices are those what people are ready to buy them on vs. how many will buy them.
Have you heard about a law of physics called supply and demand
If you did what you propose on Earth, you'd be put in jail in no time
Also if you were on earth stealing and killing and destructing other's hard earned properties would put you in jail. So far you can get away with these actions in EVE.
Not if you do this in the middle of nowhere where there's no police around :)
Anyway, I was just trying to point out that this is a concept that doesn't belong in a free market. And EVE is a free market. You can't control it.
Miner II supply is rising. This leads to: Miner II prices will go down. How fast they will go down of course depends, and the sellers could take care to reduce the tendency.
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Ulendar
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Posted - 2003.10.20 11:35:00 -
[83]
WHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
*breaths*
WHOOOOOOHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHEHEHHEHEHEHEHAHAHAH
*breaths*
Man that IS funny!
Check this out man...
First its cool if you get someone noonelse has acces to...
Then its cool that you charge somuch for it that you make like 10000% profit..
Then you expect it to last forever or what??!
Welcome to ******* capitalism aye!
Most extotion cases end up with people turning up dead or getting busted and going to jail for a very long time. Consider yourself lucky that this time you get off the hook easy and are even allowed to keep all the extortion money.
'Oh NOT FAIR...now the gamemechanics are starting not to give me huge advantages over the rest of EVE players anymore waaa, waaa'
and this ones a classic
'i'm not a ripoff...i'm an entrepreneur!'
aye, so are lawyers that fill their wallets with shakedown cases.
'i'm a stupid bunghole that spilled hot coffee over myself...i want 2 million dollars from Mc donalds!'
Like i sayd...dont complain. Welcome to the flipside of capitalism.
Welcome to the REAL capitalism. Its like that day when people comes and shut down your poor little buyisk dot com website...awww, no more freeloading for me *sob-sob*
Originally by: cashman
It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this.
It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
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